What to do with the 20 million

[Suzanimal]

a child is not born fraudulently what a ridiculous consept ...children are born period and there is no fraud to it. Good freaking grief you really tried to stretch that one. Not only that a natural born citizen, which these children are...do not fall under the fraud characterization because they do not have to apply for citizenship..they are born with it. That statute only applies to naturalized citizens who lie on the naturalization application N 400 I want to know when it was you filled out an N 400 for one of your children?

I never said "born fraudulently", now you're putting words in my mouth. I said their parents willfully came into this country illegally and that constitutes fraud. I am also assuming that illegal immigrants want to become citizens, if that's not true then I can only assume they've come here to "milk the system".

The Fourteenth Amendment does not provide any procedure for revocation of United States citizenship. Under the Supreme Court precedent of Afroyim v. Rusk, loss of 14th-Amendment-based U.S. citizenship is possible only under the following circumstances:
Fraud in the naturalization process. Technically this is not loss of citizenship, but rather a voiding of the purported naturalization and a declaration that the immigrant never was a U.S. citizen.
Voluntary relinquishment of citizenship. This may be accomplished either through renunciation procedures specially established by the State Department or through other actions (e.g., treason) which demonstrate an intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Such an act of expatriation must be accompanied by an intent to terminate American citizenship.

If there were no entitlements, no personal income taxes and an illegal immigrant didn't commit a crime, I personally wouldn't give 2 figs if they were here but as the current system stands we simply can't afford them.

No, I've never had to fill out N400 and I don't understand why that is even relevant to your argument.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

What brings illegals here are the freebies our government hand out to them.

There are really very few "freebies handed out to them". Research it. It has been shown they contribute much more financially than they take away. I realize you don't want to believe that and its your choice not to learn the facts but the bottom line is,

Just like selling them guns and buying their drugs, that is OUR responsibility.

My brother had a lucrative painting business and was under bidded by Hispanics, legal or illegal does not matter and he lost every thing because of it.

This is obviously the crux of your rant. Your brother was not competitive, a Hispanic unbid him and rather than look at where he and his business failed, he and you are choosing to blame others.

I HATE HATE HATE to see local businesses go under. I shop local business whenever I can and would not consider walking into a WalMart (for example) but if your business fails, at least part of the responsibility lies with you. Your brother needs to look at other factors that might help him to succeed.

 

[Xchel]

Its actually about 11 million and Obama hasn't put them on a path to citizenship.

I lived 20 miles west of Tucson for about 25 years. They came to my door, some of them came every year as they made the trip to the job that was waiting for them. Many of them spoke English and by the time they made it to my door, some of them had been walking for 2 or 3 weeks and were literally near death. Its against the law to help them but, as far as I was concerned, they were human beings and I never turned even one of the away.

We all like to believe that its possible to secure our border(s) but its really not. Mexico is the least of our problems and there has never been a way to stop traffic back and forth over that border. And, every terrorist who has caused us harm, or tried to harm us, came through one of the other three borders.

The US invites the illegal migrant workers here. We give them jobs, year after year, in our produce fields. There are two excellent documentaries showing on Current TV recently.

The US is causing more harm to Mexico than vice versa. The well-meaning NAFTA resulted in the end of the corn market in Mexico. Huge corporate US agri-business sent very cheap corn to Mexico which drove small, family-owned farms out of business. Corn is the absolute bedrock-backbone of the Mexican economy. Losing it meant the drug dealers got an easier hold on the people.

We sell guns to Mexico and then we buy their drugs. Until we can stop the guns and drugs market, Mexico will continue in its really sad downward spiral.

We may also want to consider going back to a humane version of the old Braceros program. The US used to send planes to Mexico, load up migrant workers, work them almost to death in our fields and then fly them home. The old folk song by Woody Guthrie, Deportee was written after one of the planes crashed, killing everyone on board. (oops, I tried to post a link to You Tube but if you want to hear it, just search under "Deportee".)

As it is now, small, family farms in the US are going out of business because they can't afford to pay US prices for labor and its illegal to hire illegals. Again, big business will be standing by to buy them out for pennies on the dollar and then, you can bet, they'll go right on hiring the cheap slave labor from Mexico.

Stupid and very racist laws like 1070 in Arizona do nothing to address the causes of the problem but do plenty to add to the fear and hate. People need someone to blame and right now, brown skin is getting most of it.

Arizona's Governor Brewer isn't very bright but it seems likely she is easily cowed by the likes of white supremacist state Senator Russell Pearce, white supremacist/skinhead, Sheriff Babeu of Pinal County, KKK Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa county and the brains behind most of it, KKK Kris Kobach of Kansas.

Arizona used to be a really wonderful state but I'll never consider going back there to live.

If you are such a good Samaritan. help some of these good people get home to their families. You are part of the problem and it is a crime to aid and abet illegal immigration.
We have a bracero program and it is called H-2A Visa program but illegal aliens don't want it and neither does businesses. No one forces illegal aliens to come here illegally. There is a legal way and it is not broken and it works. Mexico's unemployemnt rate is at a historic high of 5.3%. Average of 3.45%. What brings illegals here are the freebies our government hand out to them.
All of your complaint has no merit and failed miserablely.

The H2A visa program is a bunch of crap and it certainly is not a Bracero Program. Unemployment in Mexico is actually much much higher than what you are telling and you forget that it isn't just Mexicans going to the US...in Honduras I bet the unemployment rate here is close to 50%.

 

[Baron]

WHAT TO DO WITH THE 20 MILLION ILLEGALS
American taxpayers are the losers in legal and illegal immigration.

Because the immigration laws are crazy. The poor and criminals are welcome, the well-educated and honest must stay outside.

 

[Xchel]

a child is not born fraudulently what a ridiculous consept ...children are born period and there is no fraud to it. Good freaking grief you really tried to stretch that one. Not only that a natural born citizen, which these children are...do not fall under the fraud characterization because they do not have to apply for citizenship..they are born with it. That statute only applies to naturalized citizens who lie on the naturalization application N 400 I want to know when it was you filled out an N 400 for one of your children?

I never said "born fraudulently", now you're putting words in my mouth. I said their parents willfully came into this country illegally and that constitutes fraud. I am also assuming that illegal immigrants want to become citizens, if that's not true then I can only assume they've come here to "milk the system".

The Fourteenth Amendment does not provide any procedure for revocation of United States citizenship. Under the Supreme Court precedent of Afroyim v. Rusk, loss of 14th-Amendment-based U.S. citizenship is possible only under the following circumstances:
Fraud in the naturalization process. Technically this is not loss of citizenship, but rather a voiding of the purported naturalization and a declaration that the immigrant never was a U.S. citizen.
Voluntary relinquishment of citizenship. This may be accomplished either through renunciation procedures specially established by the State Department or through other actions (e.g., treason) which demonstrate an intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Such an act of expatriation must be accompanied by an intent to terminate American citizenship.

If there were no entitlements, no personal income taxes and an illegal immigrant didn't commit a crime, I personally wouldn't give 2 figs if they were here but as the current system stands we simply can't afford them.

No, I've never had to fill out N400 and I don't understand why that is even relevant to your argument.

you can't punish the child for an error of their parents and illegal entry is not considered fraud under any statute..it is a federal civil violation of immigration codes. Fraud falls under a very different definition than what you proscribe it to be. Parents are not the citizen...tell me if you go rob a bank can your children who are not involved be charged with your crime? No they can't be...so what you do does not apply to your children as they are seperate individuals. Since you have never had to fill out an N400 perhaps you need to find out what one is before you say you don't understand why it is relevant to the argument.

 

[Xchel]

WHAT TO DO WITH THE 20 MILLION ILLEGALS
American taxpayers are the losers in legal and illegal immigration.

Because the immigration laws are crazy. The poor and criminals are welcome, the well-educated and honest must stay outside.

nope there are plenty of opportunities to immigrate for the well to do and well educated.

 

[LilOlLady]

a child is not born fraudulently what a ridiculous consept ...children are born period and there is no fraud to it. Good freaking grief you really tried to stretch that one. Not only that a natural born citizen, which these children are...do not fall under the fraud characterization because they do not have to apply for citizenship..they are born with it. That statute only applies to naturalized citizens who lie on the naturalization application N 400 I want to know when it was you filled out an N 400 for one of your children?

I never said "born fraudulently", now you're putting words in my mouth. I said their parents willfully came into this country illegally and that constitutes fraud. I am also assuming that illegal immigrants want to become citizens, if that's not true then I can only assume they've come here to "milk the system".

The Fourteenth Amendment does not provide any procedure for revocation of United States citizenship. Under the Supreme Court precedent of Afroyim v. Rusk, loss of 14th-Amendment-based U.S. citizenship is possible only under the following circumstances:
Fraud in the naturalization process. Technically this is not loss of citizenship, but rather a voiding of the purported naturalization and a declaration that the immigrant never was a U.S. citizen.
Voluntary relinquishment of citizenship. This may be accomplished either through renunciation procedures specially established by the State Department or through other actions (e.g., treason) which demonstrate an intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Such an act of expatriation must be accompanied by an intent to terminate American citizenship.

If there were no entitlements, no personal income taxes and an illegal immigrant didn't commit a crime, I personally wouldn't give 2 figs if they were here but as the current system stands we simply can't afford them.

No, I've never had to fill out N400 and I don't understand why that is even relevant to your argument.

you can't punish the child for an error of their parents and illegal entry is not considered fraud under any statute..it is a federal civil violation of immigration codes. Fraud falls under a very different definition than what you proscribe it to be. Parents are not the citizen...tell me if you go rob a bank can your children who are not involved be charged with your crime? No they can't be...so what you do does not apply to your children as they are seperate individuals. Since you have never had to fill out an N400 perhaps you need to find out what one is before you say you don't understand why it is relevant to the argument.

Children may not be held accountable but they do suffer when they parents commits crimes and are sent to prison and are "separated" from their parents and often suffer financial difficulties. Why must the law not apply to illegal aliens who are in the country illegally and subject to deporatation?




Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.


Both types of illegal immigrants are deportable under Immigration and Nationality Act Section 237 (a)(1)(B) which says:
"Any alien who is present in the United States in violation of this Act or any other law of the United States is deportable."Illegal Immigration IS A CRIME!