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What to do with the 20 million

LilOlLady

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WHAT TO DO WITH THE 20 MILLION ILLEGALS

Ron Paul when asked what would he do with the 20 million illegal aliens who are here, he reacted with; “nothing until the borders are secure” which means nothing. Like those before him and as those with him would do. “Until the border is secure” means nothing. No one want to act on those who are already here. Some even would do what Obama has been trying to do for the past three years. Put on a path to citizenship.

The 20 million legal immigrants we have are costing us much as the 20 million illegal immigrants, Legalization cost us more. It will cost the taxpayers and save business by continuing to be a legal source of cheap labor and votes for politicians.

American taxpayers are the losers in legal and illegal immigration.
 

jerryh60

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H.B 1134 has been introduced by a Republican in the senate just recently and has gotten some good support so far. It is a national E-verify bill that would eliminate states from not having one of their own. Go to numbers USA and register an make sure your representatives know how you feel about them supporting this. Also make sure they are behind The Clear Act which has to do with eliminating sanctuary cities. Need to have one just for the State of California.
 

waltky

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Silver lining to the dark cloud of a bad economy...
:eusa_eh:
Obama's Border Chief: Bad Economy is Good for Border Security
September 13, 2011 - CBP chief says a ‘secure’ Southwest Border is being realized
U.S. Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Alan Bersin said on Friday that the bad economy has been good for border security. “We have an economy that is stronger in Mexico and weaker in the United States and so we don’t see as many people trying to cross,” he said. Bersin also said that over the next year it will become apparent to the American people that a secure southwest border is possible.

“Our border with Mexico has been a project of a 20-year effort beginning in the early 1990s, and I think what will come apparent over the next year … is that the last chapter in that first phase is about to end in Arizona,” Bersin told an audience at the Woodrow Wilson Center on Friday. The event, which featured Bersin and two of his predecessors, focused on post-911 border security in the United States. All three men asserted that the southwest border is more secure now than it has been in 30 years.

“The notion that we can secure the border – not seal it, not shut it down, but secure it – is something that is underway as a result of the magnificent effort of 10 percent of CBP,” Bersin said. “Six thousand of our people are in Arizona serving at the ports of entry, in the air, and on the ground between the ports of entry, and the progress is remarkable – more known to those who watch it closely but soon to be known by the American people.”

“We will then enter a new phase for CBP on the land borders,” Bersin continued, “one that will actually involve the same tools of information collection, intelligence gathering, analysis and risk management applied to both the land borders as well as the securing of goods and people coming towards us.” Asked by CNSNews.com to elaborate on his comment about a secure border being “underway,” Bersin noted the lower number of apprehensions in Arizona this year.

MORE
 

Wolfmoon

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On a piece of paper write out what you want to say and then call and read it to the operator or voice mail.

Contact Elected Officials: And give them a piece of your mind.
http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml


TELL THEM TO SECURE OUR PORTS & BORDERS, ASAP!

(202) 224-3121 the White House phone number

TOLL FREE NUMBERS:

Capital Switch Board:

1 (866) 220-0044
1 (800) 862-5530?
1 (877) 851-6437

US Congressional Switch Board

1 (800) 833-6354
1 (866) 340-9281
1 (877) 762-8762

.
 

Moonglow

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WHAT TO DO WITH THE 20 MILLION ILLEGALS

Ron Paul when asked what would he do with the 20 million illegal aliens who are here, he reacted with; “nothing until the borders are secure” which means nothing. Like those before him and as those with him would do. “Until the border is secure” means nothing. No one want to act on those who are already here. Some even would do what Obama has been trying to do for the past three years. Put on a path to citizenship.

The 20 million legal immigrants we have are costing us much as the 20 million illegal immigrants, Legalization cost us more. It will cost the taxpayers and save business by continuing to be a legal source of cheap labor and votes for politicians.

American taxpayers are the losers in legal and illegal immigration.

How has Obama put illegals onto a path to citizenship?
 

Xchel

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WHAT TO DO WITH THE 20 MILLION ILLEGALS

Ron Paul when asked what would he do with the 20 million illegal aliens who are here, he reacted with; “nothing until the borders are secure” which means nothing. Like those before him and as those with him would do. “Until the border is secure” means nothing. No one want to act on those who are already here. Some even would do what Obama has been trying to do for the past three years. Put on a path to citizenship.

The 20 million legal immigrants we have are costing us much as the 20 million illegal immigrants, Legalization cost us more. It will cost the taxpayers and save business by continuing to be a legal source of cheap labor and votes for politicians.

American taxpayers are the losers in legal and illegal immigration.

How has Obama put illegals onto a path to citizenship?

I think it is their illogical thinking because he announced that they were using resources to deport only those here accused of crimes and giving a temporary EAD card to those who are not accused of any crimes...
 

Suzanimal

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Actually Ron Paul's plan is the only one that makes logical sense. His COMPLETE plan is to:
1) Bring ALL US troops home to secure and defend OUR BORDERS not those of some 3rd world dictator- and that is the job of our military, not nation building, we are a Republic NOT and Empire - Empires all end badly
2) End entitlements - huge incentive gone and eliminate income taxes
3) Children born to illegals in this country are NOT citizens
4) Dr Paul as ascertained that it would be impossible to round up all illegals ( and lets be honest, it would) so his strategy is this, if you are here and you are not arrested then you will not be pursued, However if you are arrested - for anything, you are deported, his logic is if you are arrested, whether or not you committed the crime you were arrested for, you are a criminal because you are here and therefore should be deported. If you are here illegally and are not arrested since there are no entitlements and no income taxes then it's really no harm, no foul.

People laugh at Dr Paul but frankly he's been the only guy talking sense in Washington for a long time. It bothers me when someone takes one sentence out of his plans and yeah that sounds a little nutty BUT if people would actually let him finish and give the guy a chance they's be surprised.


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mohandas Gandhi
 

sparky

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WHAT TO DO WITH THE 20 MILLION ILLEGALS


The 20 million legal immigrants we have are costing us much as the 20 million illegal immigrants, Legalization cost us more. It will cost the taxpayers and save business by continuing to be a legal source of cheap labor and votes for politicians.

American taxpayers are the losers in legal and illegal immigration.


The illegal aliens are here simply on the backs of legal entries, H1B's etc

we could station an army on our boarders, yet it will do little good if we don't come to terms with the legislation that basically perpetuates the problem

proliferating cheap labor might help biz here, but it doesn't help our economy displacing American workers doing so

revisting this legislation is , imho, the right thing to do for the American worker, yet it would be pulling corporatism's tail to do so

and many have taken note that Mr. Paul is very careful about doing just that

~S~
 

Luddly Neddite

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Its actually about 11 million and Obama hasn't put them on a path to citizenship.

I lived 20 miles west of Tucson for about 25 years. They came to my door, some of them came every year as they made the trip to the job that was waiting for them. Many of them spoke English and by the time they made it to my door, some of them had been walking for 2 or 3 weeks and were literally near death. Its against the law to help them but, as far as I was concerned, they were human beings and I never turned even one of the away.

We all like to believe that its possible to secure our border(s) but its really not. Mexico is the least of our problems and there has never been a way to stop traffic back and forth over that border. And, every terrorist who has caused us harm, or tried to harm us, came through one of the other three borders.

The US invites the illegal migrant workers here. We give them jobs, year after year, in our produce fields. There are two excellent documentaries showing on Current TV recently.

The US is causing more harm to Mexico than vice versa. The well-meaning NAFTA resulted in the end of the corn market in Mexico. Huge corporate US agri-business sent very cheap corn to Mexico which drove small, family-owned farms out of business. Corn is the absolute bedrock-backbone of the Mexican economy. Losing it meant the drug dealers got an easier hold on the people.

We sell guns to Mexico and then we buy their drugs. Until we can stop the guns and drugs market, Mexico will continue in its really sad downward spiral.

We may also want to consider going back to a humane version of the old Braceros program. The US used to send planes to Mexico, load up migrant workers, work them almost to death in our fields and then fly them home. The old folk song by Woody Guthrie, Deportee was written after one of the planes crashed, killing everyone on board. (oops, I tried to post a link to You Tube but if you want to hear it, just search under "Deportee".)

As it is now, small, family farms in the US are going out of business because they can't afford to pay US prices for labor and its illegal to hire illegals. Again, big business will be standing by to buy them out for pennies on the dollar and then, you can bet, they'll go right on hiring the cheap slave labor from Mexico.

Stupid and very racist laws like 1070 in Arizona do nothing to address the causes of the problem but do plenty to add to the fear and hate. People need someone to blame and right now, brown skin is getting most of it.

Arizona's Governor Brewer isn't very bright but it seems likely she is easily cowed by the likes of white supremacist state Senator Russell Pearce, white supremacist/skinhead, Sheriff Babeu of Pinal County, KKK Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa county and the brains behind most of it, KKK Kris Kobach of Kansas.

Arizona used to be a really wonderful state but I'll never consider going back there to live.
 

Xchel

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Actually Ron Paul's plan is the only one that makes logical sense. His COMPLETE plan is to:
1) Bring ALL US troops home to secure and defend OUR BORDERS not those of some 3rd world dictator- and that is the job of our military, not nation building, we are a Republic NOT and Empire - Empires all end badly
2) End entitlements - huge incentive gone and eliminate income taxes
3) Children born to illegals in this country are NOT citizens
4) Dr Paul as ascertained that it would be impossible to round up all illegals ( and lets be honest, it would) so his strategy is this, if you are here and you are not arrested then you will not be pursued, However if you are arrested - for anything, you are deported, his logic is if you are arrested, whether or not you committed the crime you were arrested for, you are a criminal because you are here and therefore should be deported. If you are here illegally and are not arrested since there are no entitlements and no income taxes then it's really no harm, no foul.

People laugh at Dr Paul but frankly he's been the only guy talking sense in Washington for a long time. It bothers me when someone takes one sentence out of his plans and yeah that sounds a little nutty BUT if people would actually let him finish and give the guy a chance they's be surprised.


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mohandas Gandhi

mmm and how much is all this going to cost? How is he going to get the all children of illegals are not citizens passed into law?? especially considering it needs a constitutional amendment that is not going to happen...especially since it leaves children in mixed status households and mixed country households stateless...which violates international law.

Ok no income taxes..so how is he going to support the country precisely? He is going to deport if they are arrested for anything? Really...even legal immigrants? How is he going to afford all of these things?
 

Suzanimal

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Actually Ron Paul's plan is the only one that makes logical sense. His COMPLETE plan is to:
1) Bring ALL US troops home to secure and defend OUR BORDERS not those of some 3rd world dictator- and that is the job of our military, not nation building, we are a Republic NOT and Empire - Empires all end badly
2) End entitlements - huge incentive gone and eliminate income taxes
3) Children born to illegals in this country are NOT citizens
4) Dr Paul as ascertained that it would be impossible to round up all illegals ( and lets be honest, it would) so his strategy is this, if you are here and you are not arrested then you will not be pursued, However if you are arrested - for anything, you are deported, his logic is if you are arrested, whether or not you committed the crime you were arrested for, you are a criminal because you are here and therefore should be deported. If you are here illegally and are not arrested since there are no entitlements and no income taxes then it's really no harm, no foul.

People laugh at Dr Paul but frankly he's been the only guy talking sense in Washington for a long time. It bothers me when someone takes one sentence out of his plans and yeah that sounds a little nutty BUT if people would actually let him finish and give the guy a chance they's be surprised.


First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mohandas Gandhi

mmm and how much is all this going to cost? How is he going to get the all children of illegals are not citizens passed into law?? especially considering it needs a constitutional amendment that is not going to happen...especially since it leaves children in mixed status households and mixed country households stateless...which violates international law.

Ok no income taxes..so how is he going to support the country precisely? He is going to deport if they are arrested for anything? Really...even legal immigrants? How is he going to afford all of these things?

It would reduce the Federal Budget by about 50% (Dr Paul says 10%, the IRS says 50% - Dr. Paul has some fancy math I don't get but even with the IRS # if the IRS were eliminated we could deduct their operating costs out of that 50%) BUT our government could easily manage that IF:
1- we ended the wars and nation building, how much does that cost us??!!
2- ended the corporate bail outs--another huge money drain
3- ended entitlement spending-another biggie
4- eliminated the corrupt Federal Reserve - Congress couldn't even audit the Fed until Dr Paul wrote/and got passed (although a watered down version) the Federal Reserve Transparency Act and even now , the very limited info the FED has handed over is shocking. Did you know during the bailouts and "emergency lending" the 90% of the loans were to foreign banks and 70 of those were made to a bank partially owned by the BANK OF LIBYA!!! We shouldn't be printing money out of thin air, it devalues the dollar and the boom-bust cycle it perpetuates is destroying the middle class.

Back to the Constitution... 14th Amendment says
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside."

The key phrase here is “subject to the jurisdiction thereof,”with illegal aliens who are unlawfully in the United States, their native country has a claim of allegiance on the child. Thus, the completeness of their allegiance to the United States is impaired, which therefore precludes automatic citizenship. Illegal immigrants are not subject to US jurisdiction, in the sense that they cannot be drafted into the US military or tried for treason against the US. Their children would share that status, via citizenship in their parents’ nation or nations of birth – and so would not be eligible for a US passport, even if born on US soil.

Here's an answer to your question about LEGAL ALIENS - I don't really understand why you brought them up- Legal Aliens are not an issue at all and frankly Dr Paul has said time and again he would like to streamline the citizenship process to allow MORE immigrants to legally enter this country.
The defining Supreme Court ruling in this area is US v. Wong Kim Ark, an 1898 case in which justices upheld the US citizenship of a child born on US soil to Chinese immigrant parents. The parents were in the US legally, however.

I think his plan is very realistic and Constitutional.
 

Xchel

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with no IRS budget how are you going to collect the same amount of taxes? Don't give me the fairtax stuff it doesn't work...a national tax perhaps with a flat tax, but even then you still need government to collect those taxes.

Without some of the interest we have abroad there would be more wars instead of less. We have a base named Soto Cano in Honduras and it prevented Hugo Chavez from jumping onto Honduras just 2 years ago.

Unless you want to laughingly claim that somehow illegal immigrants have immunity from any prosecution then they in fact are subject to the jurisdiction of the US. Wong King Ark's parents were not legal immigrants and in fact returned to China, because they were no longer able to procure employment due to their illegal status. This is not the only case where it has been decided either. In fact, a case in 1981 in Texas where students who are illegal or their parents were forbidden to go to public school..it was determined that even illegal immigrants are subject to the jurisdiction of the US and that they have constitutional protection as people and it does not provide them with equal protection if they are not allowed enrollment in school.
 
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OP
LilOlLady

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Its actually about 11 million and Obama hasn't put them on a path to citizenship.

I lived 20 miles west of Tucson for about 25 years. They came to my door, some of them came every year as they made the trip to the job that was waiting for them. Many of them spoke English and by the time they made it to my door, some of them had been walking for 2 or 3 weeks and were literally near death. Its against the law to help them but, as far as I was concerned, they were human beings and I never turned even one of the away.

We all like to believe that its possible to secure our border(s) but its really not. Mexico is the least of our problems and there has never been a way to stop traffic back and forth over that border. And, every terrorist who has caused us harm, or tried to harm us, came through one of the other three borders.

The US invites the illegal migrant workers here. We give them jobs, year after year, in our produce fields. There are two excellent documentaries showing on Current TV recently.

The US is causing more harm to Mexico than vice versa. The well-meaning NAFTA resulted in the end of the corn market in Mexico. Huge corporate US agri-business sent very cheap corn to Mexico which drove small, family-owned farms out of business. Corn is the absolute bedrock-backbone of the Mexican economy. Losing it meant the drug dealers got an easier hold on the people.

We sell guns to Mexico and then we buy their drugs. Until we can stop the guns and drugs market, Mexico will continue in its really sad downward spiral.

We may also want to consider going back to a humane version of the old Braceros program. The US used to send planes to Mexico, load up migrant workers, work them almost to death in our fields and then fly them home. The old folk song by Woody Guthrie, Deportee was written after one of the planes crashed, killing everyone on board. (oops, I tried to post a link to You Tube but if you want to hear it, just search under "Deportee".)

As it is now, small, family farms in the US are going out of business because they can't afford to pay US prices for labor and its illegal to hire illegals. Again, big business will be standing by to buy them out for pennies on the dollar and then, you can bet, they'll go right on hiring the cheap slave labor from Mexico.

Stupid and very racist laws like 1070 in Arizona do nothing to address the causes of the problem but do plenty to add to the fear and hate. People need someone to blame and right now, brown skin is getting most of it.

Arizona's Governor Brewer isn't very bright but it seems likely she is easily cowed by the likes of white supremacist state Senator Russell Pearce, white supremacist/skinhead, Sheriff Babeu of Pinal County, KKK Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa county and the brains behind most of it, KKK Kris Kobach of Kansas.
Arizona used to be a really wonderful state but I'll never consider going back there to live.

Then you must know Eloy in Pinal County. I grew up there and in the late 40s there was an illgeal aliens and drug problem and now it is completely drugs and has destroyed the city.
Arizona is trying to do what the government has failed to do for the past 100 years and it makes our immigration laws not worth the paper they are printed on. If all the people you mention above are racist then the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act is racist. It is not about race as you claim but about the cost of ilelgal immigraiton to U.S. citizens who have to pay the price.
Arizona has never been a wonderful state to live in because of being on the border and drugs and crims with come with it. I have two brothers in Tucson and they have to carry guns and bars on their windows and doors because of the Hispanic crime. Gang and drug dealers are the norm of the day. Killings daily due to gangs and drugs.
I went back in 1975 and void never to return. Its too dangerous.

You are one of those who have their heads stuck their asses as to the horrors of illegal immigration. Especially Hispanic illegal immigration.
Call me racist, bigot. Whatever you want but I am in to the survival of America for Americans and Americans first no matter the race. Some of my best friend and relatives are Mexicans. You can try to make it about race but the majority of illegal are Hispanic and they are causing the most trouble.



Your need to read this over and over until you get it.

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)


http://americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/AidAbetUnlawfulSec8USC1324.html
 
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boedicca

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Ooops. Wrong turn.

I thought the question was about what to do with 20 Million Dollars.

Carry on.
 
OP
LilOlLady

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Its actually about 11 million and Obama hasn't put them on a path to citizenship.

I lived 20 miles west of Tucson for about 25 years. They came to my door, some of them came every year as they made the trip to the job that was waiting for them. Many of them spoke English and by the time they made it to my door, some of them had been walking for 2 or 3 weeks and were literally near death. Its against the law to help them but, as far as I was concerned, they were human beings and I never turned even one of the away.

We all like to believe that its possible to secure our border(s) but its really not. Mexico is the least of our problems and there has never been a way to stop traffic back and forth over that border. And, every terrorist who has caused us harm, or tried to harm us, came through one of the other three borders.

The US invites the illegal migrant workers here. We give them jobs, year after year, in our produce fields. There are two excellent documentaries showing on Current TV recently.

The US is causing more harm to Mexico than vice versa. The well-meaning NAFTA resulted in the end of the corn market in Mexico. Huge corporate US agri-business sent very cheap corn to Mexico which drove small, family-owned farms out of business. Corn is the absolute bedrock-backbone of the Mexican economy. Losing it meant the drug dealers got an easier hold on the people.

We sell guns to Mexico and then we buy their drugs. Until we can stop the guns and drugs market, Mexico will continue in its really sad downward spiral.

We may also want to consider going back to a humane version of the old Braceros program. The US used to send planes to Mexico, load up migrant workers, work them almost to death in our fields and then fly them home. The old folk song by Woody Guthrie, Deportee was written after one of the planes crashed, killing everyone on board. (oops, I tried to post a link to You Tube but if you want to hear it, just search under "Deportee".)

As it is now, small, family farms in the US are going out of business because they can't afford to pay US prices for labor and its illegal to hire illegals. Again, big business will be standing by to buy them out for pennies on the dollar and then, you can bet, they'll go right on hiring the cheap slave labor from Mexico.

Stupid and very racist laws like 1070 in Arizona do nothing to address the causes of the problem but do plenty to add to the fear and hate. People need someone to blame and right now, brown skin is getting most of it.

Arizona's Governor Brewer isn't very bright but it seems likely she is easily cowed by the likes of white supremacist state Senator Russell Pearce, white supremacist/skinhead, Sheriff Babeu of Pinal County, KKK Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa county and the brains behind most of it, KKK Kris Kobach of Kansas.

Arizona used to be a really wonderful state but I'll never consider going back there to live.

If you are such a good Samaritan. help some of these good people get home to their families. You are part of the problem and it is a crime to aid and abet illegal immigration.
We have a bracero program and it is called H-2A Visa program but illegal aliens don't want it and neither does businesses. No one forces illegal aliens to come here illegally. There is a legal way and it is not broken and it works. Mexico's unemployemnt rate is at a historic high of 5.3%. Average of 3.45%. What brings illegals here are the freebies our government hand out to them.
All of your complaint has no merit and failed miserablely.
 
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Suzanimal

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How do you know fair tax doesn't work? Which, by the way, I never promoted. I said NO income tax. I must assume you are happy with the current tax code and consider it legal and just.

Here are a few taxes you pay
1. Ad Valorem Tax
2. Building Permit Tax
3. Commercial Driver’s License Tax
4. Cigarette Tax
5. Corporate Income Tax
6. Dog License Tax
7. Excise Taxes
8. Federal Income Tax
9. Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
10. Fishing License Tax
11. Food License Tax
12. Fuel Permit Tax
13. Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
14. Gross Receipts Tax
15. Hotel/Motel Tax
16. Hunting License Tax
17. Inheritance Tax
18. Inventory Tax
19. Liquor Tax
20. Luxury Taxes
21. Marriage License Tax
22. Medicare Tax
23. Personal Property Tax
24. Property Tax
25. Real Estate Tax
26. Rental Car Tax
27. Service Charge Tax
28. Social Security Tax
29. Road Usage Tax
30. Sales Tax
31. Recreational Vehicle Tax
32. School Tax
33. State Income Tax
34. State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
35. Telephone Federal Excise Tax
36. Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
37. Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
38. Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
39. Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
40. Telephone State and Local Tax
41. Telephone Usage Charge Tax
42. Utility Taxes
43. Vehicle License Registration Tax
44. Vehicle Sales Tax
45. Watercraft Registration Tax
46. Well Permit Tax
47. Workers Comp
48. Capital gains
49. passport fees permits and licenses to work that are necessary in many career choices...
50. Storm water removal tax... (that's a new EPA tax).
51. Medical devise taxes (your artificial leg is being taxed now thanks to ObamaCare)
52. Concealed weapon tax ($50 just paid)
53.business and occupation tax
54.Occupational Privilege Tax
55.home burglar alarm tax
56. tax on all rail and air fares
Really I could sit here all day but I wanted to get to your other points.

Wong Kim Ark’s parents were legal, non-citizens; they were documented as legal workers at the time. There wasn’t a category of illegal immigration, or undocumented immigration in 1898.


Additionally, when you add the Constitutions two reasons for “loss of citizenship”:

Fraud in the naturalization process, and voluntary relinquishment of citizenship, many are beginning to believe there could be new finding as it relates to parental ” willful illegal status and undocumented residence” at the time of birth.

If you're here illegally, that would be fraud
 
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LilOlLady

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And luddly

There is absolutely nothing positive about illegal immigration and uncontrolled legal immigration. I have seen the destruction of neighborhoods, cities and states because of the cost of illegal immigration. Especially from south of the border. I have seen families destroyed by cheap labor and lowering of wages and jobs lost to illegals. My brother had a lucrative painting business and was under bidded by Hispanics, legal or illegal does not matter and he lost every thing because of it.
Illegal aliens contribute nothing to the economy or society.
 

Xchel

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a child is not born fraudulently what a ridiculous consept ...children are born period and there is no fraud to it. Good freaking grief you really tried to stretch that one. Not only that a natural born citizen, which these children are...do not fall under the fraud characterization because they do not have to apply for citizenship..they are born with it. That statute only applies to naturalized citizens who lie on the naturalization application N 400 I want to know when it was you filled out an N 400 for one of your children?
 
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Luddly Neddite

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LilOlLady -

I posted about illegals from several points of view. I was not posting to start a fight. Because you chose to attack me with, what?, my third post here - rather than discuss the issue, I will reply in the same vein.

Yes, I know Eloy. I drove illegals there for their jobs in the produce fields. They return every year to the same jobs that no anglo wants or would do, for any amount of money. (Its a fact and we all know it.)

As I said, its against the law to help illegals but I would not consider turning away a desperate human being of any ethnicity or creed - even a Republican or (shudder) a teabagger.

Yes, AZ elected officials are racist. If you have the same access to google that I do, you might want to do a little reading. Or not. But, the fact is the reality of racism in state and federal level politics is horrifying. Even more horrifying is that the KKK is alive and well in our legislators and very few seem to care.

Your brothers may choosee to wear on their hips what they lack in their pants but that should not be confused with "having to". I left Tucson almost four years ago and never ever experienced what you describe.

" Killings daily" in the US due to illegal immigration sounds a lot like Brewer's lies about all the headless bodies or Kyl's lies about Phoenix being the 'kidnapping capital of the world'.

NO, I am not saying violence and/or death due to drugs does not exist. Crime and drugs are a way of life in parts of almost all US cities. But I am saying that there may well be many factors that, if addressed, could possibly lead to peace between our races and even an end to this undeclared war.

I would not have presumed to call you "racist" or "bigot". Right up until you said this - "Some of my best friend and relatives are Mexicans", I was ready to give you the benefit of the doubt.

But, we've all heard variations on that line ... "I wouldn't want my sister to marry one, but ... " or, I wouldn't want to live next door to one, but ... " and it always means the same thing.

Be that as it may, this is a complicated issue and the United States is not the poor little victim that some want to believe.

If this post leads to me being banned on my second day here, so be it. But, fact is, you have not seen it first hand since 1975. I left there in 2007. And, unlike you, many of my friends really are Hispanic and/or Native American. Unlike you, I wasn't looking for them to be the Bad Guys but I have seen some of them who are the Bad Guys.

I'll take my perception over yours any day.
 

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