Zone1 What to Do with Gaza?

[Toddsterpatriot]

I already debunked your claim that Turks "owned" the land a few weeks ago with UN, British, and Ottoman records. Even Israeli courts recognize the Ottoman records, which Palestinians sometimes use to win cases.

Ok, so the Arabs owned a few percent of the land under Ottoman rule.
Why do you feel they should get all the rest?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Ok, so the Arabs owned a few percent of the land under Ottoman rule.
Why do you feel they should get all the rest?

They owned practically everything. Their homes, their lands, were theirs, according to all of the records (UN, British, Ottoman records). They're the natives of the land. Jews owned 6% of the land through Jewish Zionist organizations. Individual Jews migrating to Palestine from Europe didn't own anything, other than the clothing on their backs. They lived in kibbutzim/communes and cooperatives.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They owned practically everything. Their homes, their lands, were theirs, according to all of the records (UN, British, Ottoman records). They're the natives of the land. Jews owned 6% of the land through Jewish Zionist organizations. Individual Jews migrating to Palestine from Europe didn't own anything, other than the clothing on their backs. They lived in kibbutzim/communes and cooperatives.

You're lying. They owned very little. The Ottomans owned most of the land.

 

[TruthNotBS]

The crazy fuck in that video sure does look like your avatar pic 20 years later.

 

[TruthNotBS]

You're lying. They owned very little. The Ottomans owned most of the land.

You're lying, like always. In the records, it identifies the owners as Arabs, not Turks from Istanbul. You're being silly, like usual.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You're lying, like always. In the records, it identifies the owners as Arabs, not Turks from Istanbul. You're being silly, like usual.

They were squatters on Ottoman land.

 

[TruthNotBS]

They were squatters on Ottoman land.

They were and are the indigenous population of that land and all of the records show that the Arab Palestinians owned their homes and lands. Your argument against the records (UN, British, and Ottoman records) is:

"It says the Arab-Palestinians owned their homes and lands, but it's really a Turk from Istanbul who owned the houses in the village and all of the olive groves, not an Arab Palestinian, even though it says otherwise. I'm Todd, a racist Zionist, who's unable to admit when he's wrong."

 

[AZrailwhale]

Not true, the Hagana were well armed and trained and they began their campaign of terrorism against the Palestinian inhabitants of the land way before 1948. Zionists were already planning to ethnically cleanse the land of Palestinians, way before the war with their Arab neighbors, just read their literature and the transcripts of the speeches they would give in their meetings. Anyways, Palestinians have a right to defend themselves against the illegal occupation of their territory and they will win in the end. Watch and see.

There were never more than 21,000 members of the Haganah. The Muslims numbered between 55,000 and 65,000. The Haganah troops were armed with small arms and 700 light mortars. Before the war started they managed to illegally acquire 10 pre WWII Hotchkiss H-39 light tanks armed with the same very short 37mm gun that had been used on the Renault FT17 in WWI, 3 unarmed B-17s, 24 Avia produced modified Me-109s which were almost certainly the worst fighter ever to see combat, as a couple of dozen American half tracks. The Muslim countries had Spitfire and Mustang fighters, modern tanks, modern artillery, bombers converted from DC-3 transports that they used to bomb civilian targets, and a wide range of modern, mostly British, small arms.
The Muslims were also very well trained and officered by professional veteran British officers.

 

[TruthNotBS]

There were never more than 21,000 members of the Haganah. The Muslims numbered between 55,000 and 65,000. The Haganah troops were armed with small arms and 700 light mortars. Before the war started they managed to illegally acquire 10 pre WWII Hotchkiss H-39 light tanks armed with the same very short 37mm gun that had been used on the Renault FT17 in WWI, 3 unarmed B-17s, 24 Avia produced modified Me-109s which were almost certainly the worst fighter ever to see combat, as a couple of dozen American half tracks. The Muslim countries had Spitfire and Mustang fighters, modern tanks, modern artillery, bombers converted from DC-3 transports that they used to bomb civilian targets, and a wide range of modern, mostly British, small arms.
The Muslims were also very well trained and officered by professional veteran British officers.

The Zionist Hagana was indeed better trained and equipped, and all of these points are irrelevant. The Zionist Jews in 1947, before the ground war started, were half the population of the Palestinians, and yet the UN gave them 56% of the land, with access to both the Mediterranean and the Red Sea (Palestinians only had access to the Mediterranean). Why should Palestinians allow foreigners from Europe to take most of their country? Israeli historians admit:

Tantura Massacre:



​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They were and are the indigenous population of that land and all of the records show that the Arab Palestinians owned their homes and lands. Your argument against the records (UN, British, and Ottoman records) is:

"It says the Arab-Palestinians owned their homes and lands, but it's really a Turk from Istanbul who owned the houses in the village and all of the olive groves, not an Arab Palestinian, even though it says otherwise. I'm Todd, a racist Zionist, who's unable to admit when he's wrong."

Yes, indigenous people, squatting on land they didn't own.

all of the records show that the Arab Palestinians owned their homes and lands.

What do the records show? They owned 2%? Maybe 3%?
I guess they should have accepted the UN partition, eh? Fucking morons.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Yes, indigenous people, squatting on land they didn't own.

all of the records show that the Arab Palestinians owned their homes and lands.

What do the records show? They owned 2%? Maybe 3%?
I guess they should have accepted the UN partition, eh? Fucking morons.

Your reasoning is quite silly and desperate because you're essentially claiming that if the Palestinian Arabs met your arbitrary, personal standard of property ownership (a modern, Western capitalist definition of property ownership), then what? The Arab Palestinians would have a legitimate claim to what was forcibly taken from them by European Jews.? On what authority do you legitimize their previous property ownership? Ottoman records? The Ottoman caliphate's authority? The US government? Milton Freidman? Your attempt to divest these people of their homeland fails ethically and rationally.

Ottoman archives help Palestinians reclaim their land​

" The Palestinian Authority is heavily relying on Ottoman archives to prove ownership of thousands of dunams of lands claimed by Israel in the West Bank."

"Lawyers affiliated to the Colonization and Wall Resistance Commission reclaimed hundreds of lands from Israel in 2019 with the help of those records, Walid Assaf, the commission’s director, said. The commission, affiliated with the PLO, provides legal aid to citizens who appear before Israeli courts to defend their lands.

Assaf said during a Jan. 5 press conference in Ramallah that the commission’s lawyers reclaimed 6,000 dunams (1,483 acres) in 2019. He also pointed out that another 40,000 dunams (9,884 acres) had been reclaimed since 2015 by proving that they were acquired through fraud.

According to Assaf, the Turkish authorities, specifically the Directorate of Ottoman Archives, handed copies of the archives on Palestine to the Palestinian Embassy in Turkey, which in turn delivered the documents to Methaq Center for Heritage and Islamic Research, which is affiliated with the Palestinian Ministry of Awqaf and Religious Affairs, in March 2018.

The ministry then shared the archive with the Palestinian Land Authority and the Colonization and Wall Resistance Commission. The archive includes maps, documents and real estate plans during the Ottoman rule of Palestine between 1516 and 1917.

The Ottoman archives on Palestine proved to be a huge advantage for the Palestinians, as it allows them access to many title deeds and properties that existed prior to the creation of the State of Israel, specifically in the area currently classified as Area C. This area, established under the 1995 Oslo II Accords, constitutes 60% of the West Bank. The agreement gives Israel judicial and security control over Area C, but the Palestinians maintain that Israel intends to annex and declare sovereignty over the whole area by displacing Palestinians and establishing Jewish settlements.

Head of the Palestinian Land Authority Musa Shakarna told Al-Monitor, “The existence of historical documents proving ownership of lands over 400 years of Ottoman rule of Palestine is significant. Israel expropriated most lands under the pretext they were state property. The documents are important to prove that Palestinians owned these lands hundreds of years before the establishment of Israel.

He said that the archive is being used for two purposes: to solve internal disputes between citizens over land ownership and to reclaim Israeli-controlled lands in Israeli courts. “We used Ottoman archives to restitute lands in Jerusalem, Bethlehem and Salfit,” he said.

Read more: Ottoman archives help Palestinians reclaim their land

​

Whatever silly modern, Western "property ownership" based argument you conjure up, the fact is that these people are the indigenous population of Palestine, and aren't going to allow Jews from Europe to colonize and occupy their homeland without a fight. Humanity is on the side of the Palestinians, not Zionist soulless golems who commit ethnic cleansing and genocide.

 

[Hector12]

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Humanity is on the side of the Palestinians, not Zionist soulless golems who commit ethnic cleansing and genocide.

You have an unusual definition of "humanity."

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Honor Killing Among the Palestinians​

by James Emery

In the Palestinian communities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Israel, and Jordan, women are executed in their homes, in open fields, and occasionally in public, sometimes before crowds of cheering onlookers...

The West Bank and Gaza Strip are governed by the Palestinian Authority under a combination of Jordanian, Egyptian, and tribal laws. Israel has no jurisdiction in these territories...

Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman. Men are presumed innocent; the woman must have tempted him into raping her or enticed him into having an affair. A woman is expected to protect her honor, even at the cost of her own life. If she survives a violent rape, she is condemned for her "mistake" and may be killed by her family.

"The issue of consent is irrelevant when it comes to honor killings," says Marsha Freeman, director of the International Women's Rights Action Watch (IWRAW). "It has to do with the woman being defiled...

In Palestinian communities, a woman's purity reflects directly on a family's reputation. If a woman is raped, missing, or even rumored to have engaged in premarital sexual relations, she is taken to a medical clinic for a hymen exam. This process can have fatal consequences. Over 75 percent of the Palestinian women in Jordan subjected to hymen exams were subsequently killed by family members, even when tests proved they were still virgins...

Some Palestinian women, facing a loss of honor and certain death, have been offered a chance "to die with dignity" by strapping on explosives and killing Israelis

In some areas, a Palestinian woman is required to have a male relative accompany her whenever she leaves the home. Unfortunately, her male "guardian" -- father, brother, uncle, or cousin -- may be a sexual predator who rapes her. Should she become pregnant, he will publicly condemn her for dishonoring the family after killing both her and their unborn child. Last year, seventeen-year-old Afaf Younes was killed by her father, who had allegedly been sexually molesting her. Afaf had tried to escape his sexual abuse by running away, but she was caught and returned to her father. He then shot her in the name of honor.

A sixteen-year-old Palestinian girl became pregnant after being raped by her younger brother. Once her condition became known, her family encouraged her older brother to kill her to remove the blemish from their honor. Her brothers, the rapist and the murderer, were exonerated. The girl was blamed. "She made a mistake," said one of her male cousins. "She had to pay for it."...

"He had no choice but to kill her," says Rateb, whose son killed his sixteen-year-old sister after she was raped. "He was tormented. The community was persecuting him because of what his sister did. Her death has helped to wash away his shame."

James Emery is an anthropologist and journalist. Information for this article was obtained through interviews and research conducted in North America, West Asia, and the Middle East. The names of some of the Palestinians interviewed were changed to protect their identities.

"Reputation is Everything": Honor Killing Among the Palestinians

by James Emery If a woman brings shame to the family -- through allegations of premarital or extramarital sex, by refusing an arranged marriage, or attempting to obtain a divorce -- her male relatives are bound by duty and culture to murder her. "Honor is everything," says Ahmed, a 52-year-old…

anthropologist.livejournal.com

 

[Hossfly]

exactly. a DMZ has worked wonders to prevent actual war between North and South Korea

DMZ manned by U.S. Army.

 

[surada]

You're lying. They owned very little. The Ottomans owned most of the land.

1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality.

The division into religious groups was 590,890 Muslims, 83,794 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 408 Sikhs, 265 Baháʼís, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans

 

[surada]

DMZ manned by U.S. Army.

Gaza was a DMZ for years.

 

[surada]

So they can keep attacking Israel?

1922 census

1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality.

The division into religious groups was 590,890 Muslims, 83,794 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 408 Sikhs, 265 Baháʼís, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

1922 census of Palestine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality.

The division into religious groups was 590,890 Muslims, 83,794 Jews, 73,024 Christians, 7,028 Druze, 408 Sikhs, 265 Baháʼís, 156 Metawalis, and 163 Samaritans

The reported population was 757,182, including the military and persons of foreign nationality.

What was the population of Jerusalem?

 

[Pete7469]

Spread cobalt rods all over the place. Then let the mooselimb filth back in.

 

[TruthNotBS]

You have an unusual definition of "humanity."

-----------

Honor Killing Among the Palestinians​

by James Emery

In the Palestinian communities of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Israel, and Jordan, women are executed in their homes, in open fields, and occasionally in public, sometimes before crowds of cheering onlookers...

The West Bank and Gaza Strip are governed by the Palestinian Authority under a combination of Jordanian, Egyptian, and tribal laws. Israel has no jurisdiction in these territories...

Among Palestinians, all sexual encounters, including rape and incest, are blamed on the woman. Men are presumed innocent; the woman must have tempted him into raping her or enticed him into having an affair. A woman is expected to protect her honor, even at the cost of her own life. If she survives a violent rape, she is condemned for her "mistake" and may be killed by her family.

"The issue of consent is irrelevant when it comes to honor killings," says Marsha Freeman, director of the International Women's Rights Action Watch (IWRAW). "It has to do with the woman being defiled...

In Palestinian communities, a woman's purity reflects directly on a family's reputation. If a woman is raped, missing, or even rumored to have engaged in premarital sexual relations, she is taken to a medical clinic for a hymen exam. This process can have fatal consequences. Over 75 percent of the Palestinian women in Jordan subjected to hymen exams were subsequently killed by family members, even when tests proved they were still virgins...

Some Palestinian women, facing a loss of honor and certain death, have been offered a chance "to die with dignity" by strapping on explosives and killing Israelis

In some areas, a Palestinian woman is required to have a male relative accompany her whenever she leaves the home. Unfortunately, her male "guardian" -- father, brother, uncle, or cousin -- may be a sexual predator who rapes her. Should she become pregnant, he will publicly condemn her for dishonoring the family after killing both her and their unborn child. Last year, seventeen-year-old Afaf Younes was killed by her father, who had allegedly been sexually molesting her. Afaf had tried to escape his sexual abuse by running away, but she was caught and returned to her father. He then shot her in the name of honor.

A sixteen-year-old Palestinian girl became pregnant after being raped by her younger brother. Once her condition became known, her family encouraged her older brother to kill her to remove the blemish from their honor. Her brothers, the rapist and the murderer, were exonerated. The girl was blamed. "She made a mistake," said one of her male cousins. "She had to pay for it."...

"He had no choice but to kill her," says Rateb, whose son killed his sixteen-year-old sister after she was raped. "He was tormented. The community was persecuting him because of what his sister did. Her death has helped to wash away his shame."

James Emery is an anthropologist and journalist. Information for this article was obtained through interviews and research conducted in North America, West Asia, and the Middle East. The names of some of the Palestinians interviewed were changed to protect their identities.

"Reputation is Everything": Honor Killing Among the Palestinians

by James Emery If a woman brings shame to the family -- through allegations of premarital or extramarital sex, by refusing an arranged marriage, or attempting to obtain a divorce -- her male relatives are bound by duty and culture to murder her. "Honor is everything," says Ahmed, a 52-year-old…

anthropologist.livejournal.com

These Jewish Orthodox settlers and their rabbis plan to establish another Sanhedrin or religious Torah-based court that will essentially do exactly the same thing if not worse than what is described in the above article. The Torah - Pentateuch, commands the execution of the promiscuous daughters of Levitical priests through fire. They are to be burned alive. Are you in favor of that too?

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." Lev 21:9

The Hebrew Bible commands all fathers to execute their harlot daughters:

"Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." Deut 22:21

List of capital crimes in the Torah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you know more than the Biblical God of Israel? Are you wiser than Him?

Maybe the God of the Bible allows this practice because not doing it creates even more pain, suffering, and death. Promiscuity in society leads to this:

Even in Israel:

​

Abortion is also the consequence of promiscuity. How many unborn babies do you want to murder by not keeping God's law? There's more abortion in "Israel" per capita than in the United States.

​

Add also Israeli music festivals where Israeli Jewish idolaters and harlots thumb their noses at YHWH - The Holy One Of Israel:

​

The above two pictures are from the idolatrous music festival Hamas attacked. Hamas was simply being Biblical. Notice how the LGBTQA+ rainbow is painted on the "light rays" above the idol's head. They are blaspheming YHWH GOD, and yet they claim to be the chosen people of YHWH. These fake Israelites, fake Jews were attacked. Who is more Biblical? These atheist Jews or the Muslim Palestinians who defend themselves against the "Jewish", racist, secular apartheid state, which celebrates the values of Sodom & Gomorrah?

From a Biblical perspective the Palestinians who kill their daughters for committing harlotry, are following God's biblical commandments. The Jews are less likely to keep God's commandments. They've established a secular, atheistic country that sodomizes the Holy Land, with the largest sodomite pride parade in Asia and their idolatry. The Jews don't allow Christians to preach the gospel openly without harassment or being arrested for "disturbing the peace":

​

The Jew in the above video who is telling the police to stop the Christian preachers admits that according to the Torah, the Jews should kill the Christian missionaries.

But they allow Hare Krishnas to chant Hare Krishna in public, no problem:

​

The Israelis love it. Where was the Jewish zealot that was threatening the Christian missionaries with death when these Hare Krishna idolaters were chanting in public?

You present an article that criticizes Palestinian men who are murdering their daughters and sisters for engaging in premarital sex or harlotry while supporting an Israeli genocidal bombing campaign in Gaza that is killing the same Palestinian women you supposedly care about. The irony.

You're trying hard to dehumanize Palestinians by pretending they're all murdering their daughters, whenever their daughters are promiscuous (which isn't true), just like it's not true that all rabbis do this:

​

I could. disingenuously, make a case that this practice is common in the orthodox Jewish community. The truth is that most rabbis don't use their mouths to stop the baby's penis from bleeding.

Honor killings don't justify the Israeli genocidal bombing campaign in Gaza or the Israeli racist apartheid state, which dehumanizes, abuses, wrongly incarcerates, and murders Palestinians. Likewise, the bad behavior of the Jewish State of Israel or a few rabbis sucking baby penis, doesn't justify anti-Semitism around the world. Following your line of reasoning, anti-Semitism and dehumanizing Jews would be justified based upon the atrocious behavior of Jewish Zionists who commit genocide and manage a racist apartheid state.

BTW, the Torah, God's Word, doesn't say anything about sucking a baby's penis. NADA, NOTHING. It's not a commandment. The Jews invented that one with their talmud. Rabbinic Judaism isn't the faith of the ancient Israelites, it's a false religion that has nothing to do with the true Biblical God YHWH. These rabbinic Jews don't even utter YHWH's name, violating his commandment to make His Name Known. They are counterfeit "Israel" not true Israel according to the Bible. There's no such things as an "Atheist Jew" in the Bible. That's blasphemy. The Israel of God according to the Bible are the disciples of Jesus Christ, not unbelieving Jews who spit in the face of Jesus and pluck his beard. You Evangelical "Christians" who defend the atheist state of "Israel" are committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hector12]

These Jewish Orthodox settlers and their rabbis plan to establish another Sanhedrin or religious Torah-based court that will essentially do exactly the same thing if not worse than what is described in the above article. The Torah - Pentateuch, commands the execution of the promiscuous daughters of Levitical priests through fire. They are to be burned alive. Are you in favor of that too?

There is no chance that Israelis will ever enforce those parts of the Law of Moses. Muslims to enforce sharia law.

Are you in favor of honor killing? Answer "Yes" or "No." Should boys be allowed to kill sisters they impregnate? Among the Palestinians they are. Those are the people you think are more worthy of the Land of Israel than the Children of Israel. I do not think they are more worthy.

When Palestinians occupied the land God gave the Jews the land was a third world backwater. The Jews turned the land into an oases of civilization surrounded by a vast and primitive desert of loathsome barbarism.