What the Palestinian Authority Thinks Concerning a Palestinians State in the WB

[Hollie]

I think you are reaching for old attitudes...It is in Israel's interest to have a Palestinian government that can deliver on its promises...To not ensure a capable force that is in no danger to Israel is only asking Hamas for further terrorism.

Without a strong police force, there is no point to signing a peace deal.

Reaching for old attitudes? I would have to agree but it’s done with acknowledgement of an objective reality in connection with the various islamist groups in “Palestinian” controlled areas.
We’re all aware that "Palestinian" "President" Mahmoud Abbas has previously applied to the United Nations for full recognition as a sovereign state. But have you asked yourself what, in the unlikely event that the United States does not veto the suggestion in the Security Council, it would actually mean?

Hey, wait a minute... Didn't Mahmoud Abbas write a Holocaust denial book as his doctoral thesis?

History News Network | Was Abu Mazen a Holocaust Denier?

Hey! Well, I guess it doesn't matter anyway, because this is all just duplicitous chicanery. It's just window dressing on the dirty, cracked, and broken window that is Palestinian Arab society. Abbas just wants to maintain that patina of moderation that the MSM believe in.

Historically, sovereignty is a condition that's conceded by one's neighbors: principally by not invading and dismembering one's country; secondarily by conducting diplomatic relations. It's never been a status awarded by some supra-national certification agency. The notion strikes me as an exercise in foolishness disguised as a political ploy. Were Israel to ignore a UN grant of full membership to "Palestine," continue to forbid arms shipments into those zones, and blockade the Gaza ports, the practical aspects of things would remain as they are. So what's the point?

The point, of course, is to provide an enhanced pretext for cynical moral outrage at the Israelis.

Abbas's speech before the General Assembly was rife with overwrought statements about the "Zionist occupier" and how “Palestinians” should be allowed at last to "lead normal lives." (Yes, yes, they demand East Jerusalem back too, but that's old news). They really want to drive the Jews into the sea, and they say so in any number of pronouncements spoken and written, so the East Jerusalem claim is just noxious icing on an already foul cake. In point of fact, the only abnormalities "Palestinians" endure today, under the internal autonomy Israel has granted them within their zones, are fruits of "Palestinian" violence: specifically, violence directed at Israel, Israelis, and Jews generally. Nor is the world at large unaware of that.

Under the pretext of statehood, "Palestine" would have a cosmetic "right" to armed forces and control of its own borders and ports: a "right" which, if respected, would allow the importation of military hardware that could then be used to amplify the "Palestinians'" campaign to destroy Israel. Inasmuch as the Israelis are fully aware of this, should the UN "grant recognition of sovereignty" to "Palestine," Israeli control of ingress to the autonomous zones would continue. However, should other Arab/Muslim states then league with "Palestine" in the effort to "liberate" its borders and ports, we wouldn't have a publicity stunt; we'd have a war.

One hundred fifty nukes, an array of field nukes, a superpower in the ME by all standards and you fear the stick and stone forces of Palestine?

Also the USA's imports from the ME of less than 13% and soon to be 0 as fracking makes us a net exporter, Israel's strategic importance to us is greatly diminished. Americans are tired of wars, its only a matter of time that Islam's countries will have armament parity. Even today, Pakistan has roughly a 120 nukes, and polls say the right and left hate Israel more than India.

It's Israel's move or the UN will recognize Palestine to the 67 borders and sanctions on Israel will follow.

It’s just “stick and stone forces” until the next bus bombing or pizza shop mass slaughter by Islamic terrorists or until the “Palestinians” get more sophisticated weapons.

I just don’t happen to believe that a border defining a “Palestinian” state is going to stop groups such as Hamas and other Islamic terrorist groups from promoting Islamic terrorism aimed at Israel.

Borders matter and security matters because people matter. Borders are important because there must be a limit on every man's responsibilities for others, and on every nation's, too. Every political system binds its citizens in a web of mutual responsibility. Not for everything, but for the really big things commonly delegated to government: the defense of the realm, the maintenance of order in the streets, a common, generally comprehended legal system, and above all the protection of individuals' rights to life, liberty, and respect for due process of law.

So tell me honestly, do see those attributes being embraced by Hamas?

Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza and what was the result – the place became an armed Islamic terrorist encampment. Israel granted the Palestinians autonomy within their zones, or, as Eric Frank Russell once put it, "the right to go to Hell in their own fashion."

Now that they've chosen their course, they should be allowed to follow it to its conclusion, out of respect not only for their right to do so, but the right of Israelis not to be involved in it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The West Bank and Gaza Strip constitute a "criminal state;" since 1988 called Palestine.

Could you explain how you got that opinion?

 

[toastman]

I think you are reaching for old attitudes...It is in Israel's interest to have a Palestinian government that can deliver on its promises...To not ensure a capable force that is in no danger to Israel is only asking Hamas for further terrorism.

Without a strong police force, there is no point to signing a peace deal.

Reaching for old attitudes? I would have to agree but it’s done with acknowledgement of an objective reality in connection with the various islamist groups in “Palestinian” controlled areas.
We’re all aware that "Palestinian" "President" Mahmoud Abbas has previously applied to the United Nations for full recognition as a sovereign state. But have you asked yourself what, in the unlikely event that the United States does not veto the suggestion in the Security Council, it would actually mean?

Hey, wait a minute... Didn't Mahmoud Abbas write a Holocaust denial book as his doctoral thesis?

History News Network | Was Abu Mazen a Holocaust Denier?

Hey! Well, I guess it doesn't matter anyway, because this is all just duplicitous chicanery. It's just window dressing on the dirty, cracked, and broken window that is Palestinian Arab society. Abbas just wants to maintain that patina of moderation that the MSM believe in.

Historically, sovereignty is a condition that's conceded by one's neighbors: principally by not invading and dismembering one's country; secondarily by conducting diplomatic relations. It's never been a status awarded by some supra-national certification agency. The notion strikes me as an exercise in foolishness disguised as a political ploy. Were Israel to ignore a UN grant of full membership to "Palestine," continue to forbid arms shipments into those zones, and blockade the Gaza ports, the practical aspects of things would remain as they are. So what's the point?

The point, of course, is to provide an enhanced pretext for cynical moral outrage at the Israelis.

Abbas's speech before the General Assembly was rife with overwrought statements about the "Zionist occupier" and how “Palestinians” should be allowed at last to "lead normal lives." (Yes, yes, they demand East Jerusalem back too, but that's old news). They really want to drive the Jews into the sea, and they say so in any number of pronouncements spoken and written, so the East Jerusalem claim is just noxious icing on an already foul cake. In point of fact, the only abnormalities "Palestinians" endure today, under the internal autonomy Israel has granted them within their zones, are fruits of "Palestinian" violence: specifically, violence directed at Israel, Israelis, and Jews generally. Nor is the world at large unaware of that.

Under the pretext of statehood, "Palestine" would have a cosmetic "right" to armed forces and control of its own borders and ports: a "right" which, if respected, would allow the importation of military hardware that could then be used to amplify the "Palestinians'" campaign to destroy Israel. Inasmuch as the Israelis are fully aware of this, should the UN "grant recognition of sovereignty" to "Palestine," Israeli control of ingress to the autonomous zones would continue. However, should other Arab/Muslim states then league with "Palestine" in the effort to "liberate" its borders and ports, we wouldn't have a publicity stunt; we'd have a war.

One hundred fifty nukes, an array of field nukes, a superpower in the ME by all standards and you fear the stick and stone forces of Palestine?

Also the USA's imports from the ME of less than 13% and soon to be 0 as fracking makes us a net exporter, Israel's strategic importance to us is greatly diminished. Americans are tired of wars, its only a matter of time that Islam's countries will have armament parity. Even today, Pakistan has roughly a 120 nukes, and polls say the right and left hate Israel more than India.

It's Israel's move or the UN will recognize Palestine to the 67 borders and sanctions on Israel will follow.

1) Israel's nuclear arsenal is completely irrelevant. They have no reason to use them except as a deterrent for other countries that might threaten them with nuclear bombs

2) The only reason the Palestinians have a small arsenal of weapons is because of the air and naval blockade on Gaza. During the second intifada, Israel stopped several ships that were Gaza bound and contained a large amount of weapons. In other words, if Israel allows Hamas to control their airspace and naval, you can bet that Hezbollah will be sending them sophisticated weapons. Palestinians + sophisticated weapons = big problem.
Palestinians in Gaza have demonstrated that they are extremely irresponsible with any kind of weapons. And BTW, the Palestinians still have weapons that could harm ISraelis. Bombs and rockets kill. The reason these weapons are not killing now is because of Israel's dedicated security forces and the IDF, but even they are not invincible.

3) A common tactic that anti - Zionists use to argue against pro - Israeli's is to say that soon the U.S will cut ties with Israel, which is complete nonsense. Having a strategic ally in the ME is extremely important, regardless if the U.S is in the middle of a war or not. Not to mention there is no proof of this allegation.
Relationships between countries are like relationships between people; there are times when the relationships are rocky. However there is no end in sight to the relations between Israel and the U.S.

 

[toastman]

The West Bank and Gaza Strip constitute a "criminal state;" since 1988 called Palestine.

Could you explain how you got that opinion?

Gaza is governed by criminals

 

[pbel]

It's fairly obvious that Israel and many Zionists perceive peace as a detriment...As an American, I say our government needs to withdraw all funds from the ME and let the combatants sort it out. No guns or butter to anyone in this theater of constant warfare.

Lets tend to America's problems and become isolationists.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The West Bank and Gaza Strip constitute a "criminal state;" since 1988 called Palestine.

Could you explain how you got that opinion?

Gaza is governed by criminals

There ya go. There is the proof right there.

 

[toastman]

It's fairly obvious that Israel and many Zionists perceive peace as a detriment...As an American, I say our government needs to withdraw all funds from the ME and let the combatants sort it out. No guns or butter to anyone in this theater of constant warfare.

Lets tend to America's problems and become isolationists.

False. Zionists don't trust the Palestinians and surrounding Arab states even if there is a peace deal.
Would you trust a bunch of venomous snakes of they said they promise not to bite you if you let them in your home ?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Except in very rare occasions does the demonstration of our actions and deeds not have a corresponding cause and effect. The Palestinian has an established history. Since 1948, its strategies have included piracy on the high seas, murders on scales for media impact, airline hijackings, arsons and fire-bombings, kidnappings and hostage-takings, armed attacks include raids and ambushes, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and of course --- suicide bombings.

In the case of the Palestinian, it is not uncommon for such attacks to be targeted against unarmed and non-participating civilians. As Dr 'Issam 'Adwan, Managing Director, Hamas Refugee Affairs, has said recently: "The Palestinian resistance may find at a certain stage that the path of martyrdom operations is more effective, and it must not rule out the use of any method that can inflict pain on the enemy and deter it.”

The cause (Palestinian actions and deeds) have establish an effect (a history of past behaviors) on its reputation. This coupled with the open display of defiance of international norms, and the open declaration of their identity as Jihadist and Fedayeen, both state supported covenant and charter, how can one come to any other conclusion.

“The Security Council stresses that no cause or grievance can justify the murder of innocent people and that terrorism will not be defeated by military force, law enforcement measures, and intelligence operations alone, and can only be defeated by a sustained and comprehensive approach involving the active participation and collaboration of all States and relevant international and regional organizations and civil society to address the conditions conducive to the spread of terrorism and to impede, impair, isolate and
incapacitate the terrorist threat.”

SOURCE: S/PRST/2011/9

It is important to point out at this point that the Palestinian Government, overwhelming supported by the Palestinian people, organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating Jihadist and Fedayeen activities, acts of violence, intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.

The West Bank and Gaza Strip constitute a "criminal state;" since 1988 called Palestine.

Could you explain how you got that opinion?

(COMMENT)

We can look at this another way. We can ask the question:

• IS IT WRONG to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of Jihadist and Fedayeen activities or provides safe havens?

Remember:

Terrorists require means to carry out their attacks. The ability to generate and move finances, to acquire weapons, to recruit and train cadres, and to communicate, particularly through use of the Internet, are all essential to terrorists. They seek easy access to their intended targets and increasingly look for greater impact — both in numbers killed and in media exposure. Denying them access to these means and targets can help to prevent future attacks.

SOURCE: A/60/825

To the extent possible, the West Bank and Gaza Strip Jihadist and Fedayeen are quarantined. The question you have to ask yourself:

• Under what venue do you perceive the Jihadist and Fedayeen as NOT terrorists?

The Palestinian: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."​

ANSWER: Jihadist and Fedayeen are not considered terrorist in venues that support Jihadist and Fedayeen activities. (State sponsors of terrorism.)

Under what international law is that not criminal?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

Could you explain how you got that opinion?

Gaza is governed by criminals

There ya go. There is the proof right there.

Kind of like you provided proof when you constantly call the Zionists who came to Mandatory Palestine in the early 1900's a bunch of criminals

 

[toastman]

Rocco, you forgot to add the poisoning of children's minds in Gaza, to make sure that when this generation of Jihadists is finished, another one awaits.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Except in very rare occasions does the demonstration of our actions and deeds not have a corresponding cause and effect. The Palestinian has an established history. Since 1948, its strategies have included piracy on the high seas, murders on scales for media impact, airline hijackings, arsons and fire-bombings, kidnappings and hostage-takings, armed attacks include raids and ambushes, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and of course --- suicide bombings.

In the case of the Palestinian, it is not uncommon for such attacks to be targeted against unarmed and non-participating civilians. As Dr 'Issam 'Adwan, Managing Director, Hamas Refugee Affairs, has said recently: "The Palestinian resistance may find at a certain stage that the path of martyrdom operations is more effective, and it must not rule out the use of any method that can inflict pain on the enemy and deter it.”

The cause (Palestinian actions and deeds) have establish an effect (a history of past behaviors) on its reputation. This coupled with the open display of defiance of international norms, and the open declaration of their identity as Jihadist and Fedayeen, both state supported covenant and charter, how can one come to any other conclusion.

“The Security Council stresses that no cause or grievance can justify the murder of innocent people and that terrorism will not be defeated by military force, law enforcement measures, and intelligence operations alone, and can only be defeated by a sustained and comprehensive approach involving the active participation and collaboration of all States and relevant international and regional organizations and civil society to address the conditions conducive to the spread of terrorism and to impede, impair, isolate and
incapacitate the terrorist threat.”

SOURCE: S/PRST/2011/9

It is important to point out at this point that the Palestinian Government, overwhelming supported by the Palestinian people, organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating Jihadist and Fedayeen activities, acts of violence, intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.

Could you explain how you got that opinion?

(COMMENT)

We can look at this another way. We can ask the question:

• IS IT WRONG to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of Jihadist and Fedayeen activities or provides safe havens?

Remember:

Terrorists require means to carry out their attacks. The ability to generate and move finances, to acquire weapons, to recruit and train cadres, and to communicate, particularly through use of the Internet, are all essential to terrorists. They seek easy access to their intended targets and increasingly look for greater impact — both in numbers killed and in media exposure. Denying them access to these means and targets can help to prevent future attacks.

SOURCE: A/60/825

To the extent possible, the West Bank and Gaza Strip Jihadist and Fedayeen are quarantined. The question you have to ask yourself:

• Under what venue do you perceive the Jihadist and Fedayeen as NOT terrorists?

The Palestinian: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."​

ANSWER: Jihadist and Fedayeen are not considered terrorist in venues that support Jihadist and Fedayeen activities. (State sponsors of terrorism.)

Under what international law is that not criminal?

Most Respectfully,
R

This coupled with the open display of defiance of international norms,...

Like?

 

[RoccoR]

toastman, et al,

Ah, yes, these are Article 15 Jihadist. (Terrorist: The Next Generation)

Rocco, you forgot to add the poisoning of children's minds in Gaza, to make sure that when this generation of Jihadists is finished, another one awaits.

(COMMENT)

I find it so very hard to condemn the purposely tainted youth that know no better than what radical Islamist must be teaching them.

It is important that basic changes be made in the school curriculum, to cleanse it of the traces of ideological invasion that affected it as a result of the orientalists and missionaries who infiltrated the region following the defeat of the Crusaders at the hands of Salah el-Din (Saladin).

SOURCE: The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty

There is no greater crime against humanity than to intentionally corrupt the mind of the youth in ways that promote future generations of terrorism. They might as well inflected them with a deadly virus.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

It is one of the worse forms of child abuse.

I see it as a very overlooked aspect of this conflict....

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Except in very rare occasions does the demonstration of our actions and deeds not have a corresponding cause and effect. The Palestinian has an established history. Since 1948, its strategies have included piracy on the high seas, murders on scales for media impact, airline hijackings, arsons and fire-bombings, kidnappings and hostage-takings, armed attacks include raids and ambushes, indiscriminate rocket attacks, and of course --- suicide bombings.

In the case of the Palestinian, it is not uncommon for such attacks to be targeted against unarmed and non-participating civilians. As Dr 'Issam 'Adwan, Managing Director, Hamas Refugee Affairs, has said recently: "The Palestinian resistance may find at a certain stage that the path of martyrdom operations is more effective, and it must not rule out the use of any method that can inflict pain on the enemy and deter it.”

The cause (Palestinian actions and deeds) have establish an effect (a history of past behaviors) on its reputation. This coupled with the open display of defiance of international norms, and the open declaration of their identity as Jihadist and Fedayeen, both state supported covenant and charter, how can one come to any other conclusion.

“The Security Council stresses that no cause or grievance can justify the murder of innocent people and that terrorism will not be defeated by military force, law enforcement measures, and intelligence operations alone, and can only be defeated by a sustained and comprehensive approach involving the active participation and collaboration of all States and relevant international and regional organizations and civil society to address the conditions conducive to the spread of terrorism and to impede, impair, isolate and
incapacitate the terrorist threat.”

SOURCE: S/PRST/2011/9

It is important to point out at this point that the Palestinian Government, overwhelming supported by the Palestinian people, organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating Jihadist and Fedayeen activities, acts of violence, intended to be committed against other States or their citizens.


(COMMENT)

We can look at this another way. We can ask the question:

• IS IT WRONG to find, deny safe haven and bring to justice, any person who supports, facilitates, participates or attempts to participate in the financing, planning, preparation or perpetration of Jihadist and Fedayeen activities or provides safe havens?

Remember:



To the extent possible, the West Bank and Gaza Strip Jihadist and Fedayeen are quarantined. The question you have to ask yourself:

• Under what venue do you perceive the Jihadist and Fedayeen as NOT terrorists?

The Palestinian: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad."​

ANSWER: Jihadist and Fedayeen are not considered terrorist in venues that support Jihadist and Fedayeen activities. (State sponsors of terrorism.)

Under what international law is that not criminal?

Most Respectfully,
R

This coupled with the open display of defiance of international norms,...

Like?

Why don't you at least make an effort in answering his questions before asking your own.

 

[Coyote]

It is one of the worse forms of child abuse.

I see it as a very overlooked aspect of this conflict....

I agree. And I think it's important remember that this poisonous message of hate was also being taught in Israel and it wasn't until violence against Arab citizens became unacceptably brutal that Israel decided this was not the society they wanted to be. Palestinians aren't there yet.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Are you suggesting that Jihadist and Fedayeen activities are inside international norms?

This coupled with the open display of defiance of international norms,...

Like?

(COMMENT)

The norm is to consider "peace" preferable to "conflict."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

It is one of the worse forms of child abuse.

I see it as a very overlooked aspect of this conflict....

I agree. And I think it's important remember that this poisonous message of hate was also being taught in Israel and it wasn't until violence against Arab citizens became unacceptably brutal that Israel decided this was not the society they wanted to be. Palestinians aren't there yet.

Are you saying Israeli children were/are taught hate ?

 

[Coyote]

It is one of the worse forms of child abuse.

I see it as a very overlooked aspect of this conflict....

I agree. And I think it's important remember that this poisonous message of hate was also being taught in Israel and it wasn't until violence against Arab citizens became unacceptably brutal that Israel decided this was not the society they wanted to be. Palestinians aren't there yet.

Are you saying Israeli children were/are taught hate ?

Yes. I think they were or at least some. It was discussed in some other threads. There was a particularly horrific case of violence on an Arab man that brought it to a head. Government officials made a public denouncement of it, and also took a swing at the school systems, questioning what values were being taught.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Are you suggesting that Jihadist and Fedayeen activities are inside international norms?

This coupled with the open display of defiance of international norms,...

Like?

(COMMENT)

The norm is to consider "peace" preferable to "conflict."

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, but it is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have always wanted peace.

The Palestinians consistently ask for peace based on justice and international law.

Unfortunately, you will never hear those words cross the lips of the phonies and their fake peace process.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Are you suggesting that Jihadist and Fedayeen activities are inside international norms?

Like?

(COMMENT)

The norm is to consider "peace" preferable to "conflict."

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, but it is Israel's conflict. The Palestinians have always wanted peace.

The Palestinians consistently ask for peace based on justice and international law.

Unfortunately, you will never hear those words cross the lips of the phonies and their fake peace process.

"Palestinian" Arabs want / are always asking for peace? Consider putting down the paper bag soaked in modeling glue and explain how the Hamas Charter is a plea for peace.