They would justify their actions by abiding by the old axiom-WWYD.( What Would Yassir Do?)
What the Palestinian Authority Thinks Concerning a Palestinians State in the WB
- Thread starter toastman
- Start date
Either Hossfly struck a nerve or Allah won't reveal the issue to the faithful and shrouded it with a veil.
RoccoR
Gold Member
pbel, et al,
Well, there are two points here that I would like to address. I should address them in reverse order.
The first is the "state of war" issue; "even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them."
Article 15 Jihadist. (Terrorist: The Next Generation) The Question: How can you make such broad statements as, " intentionally corrupt the mind of youth," when people are in a state of war?
If someone missed the bullseye, it wasn't me. No civilized culture, that has as a goal, the peace and prosperity for its people, believes that children should be taught the way of the Jihadist and Fedayeen.
It was the HoAP that said: The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out man women and child." (Arab Higher Committee Delegation 6 Feb 48) The legacy of that declaration has lead to a half-century (+) of conflict. Be sure you teach them that the decision of their forefathers made them what they are today, refugees; not the Israeli and not the Allied Powers. Because it was the attitude of the HoAP that lead to open conflict.
Or you can go the way of peace.
Most Respectfully,
R
Well, there are two points here that I would like to address. I should address them in reverse order.
Two Side Bars Annotations:
[*]I did not come to your land, invade it, take over our homes for hundreds of years, and you expect praise?
[*]Unless you were born prior to AUGUST 10, 1920 (Treaty of Sevres), the Arab-Palestinian had no sovereignty beyond that was not surrendered to the Allied Powers.
(COMMENT)
The first is the "state of war" issue; "even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them."
- This implies both the existence of the Hostile Arab-Palestinian (HoAP) acting as an irregular enemy combatant; and an enemy population of the territory to the belligerent Palestinian State - acting as a support mechanism for the continuation of hostilities.
- This also implies that there has been no general closure of military operations; as stated, a "state of war" still exists - as recognized by the belligerent Palestinian.
The "state of war" binds the Occupation Power (the Israelis) to exercises the functions of government in such territory, as may be necessary to maintain the peace and to suppress and neutralize the threat generated by the existing HoAP. Normally, in the territory of Parties to the conflict, the Occupation would cease on the anniversary to the general closure of military operations; since a "state of war" still exists, no anniversary exists. Both the HoAP Covenant and Charter still advocate Jihadist and Fedayeen activity direct towards the sovereignty of the State of Israel.
Where in the territory of conflict, the Occupation Power has detected and detained HoAP (that may appear to be a protected person) suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State of Israel or the Occupation Forces, such an individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Geneva Convention IV (Article 5) as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.
Where in occupied territory an individual protected person (Palestinian) is detained as Jihadist and Fedayeen, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Geneva Convention IV (Article 6).
Where in the territory of conflict, the Occupation Power has detected and detained HoAP (that may appear to be a protected person) suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State of Israel or the Occupation Forces, such an individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Geneva Convention IV (Article 5) as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.
Where in occupied territory an individual protected person (Palestinian) is detained as Jihadist and Fedayeen, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Geneva Convention IV (Article 6).
Article 15 Jihadist. (Terrorist: The Next Generation) The Question: How can you make such broad statements as, " intentionally corrupt the mind of youth," when people are in a state of war?
The promotion of Holy War (Jihad) and Martyrdom for Allah (Shahada) as Article 15 curriculum for children has a cause and effect; beyond that of the moral implications. The entire idea of promoting peace and regional security is undermined by the fact that the Palestinian, without compromise, makes demands certain to generate hostilities between the two cultures. And the HoAP further aggravates the situation through the promotion of conflict.
The very nature and character of the HoAP is demonstrated by the to promotion and glorification of violence and terror as part of the Article 15 curriculum for children. But what is dynamically important is not --- whether or not this is done --- the HoAP open admits it and endorses it, but that they believe it is some sort of imperative.
The real question here is whether or not, without regard to the cause, it is healthy for now and into the future, for the children of today to be raised as Jihadist and Fedayeen. Is it really a question in the minds of civilized societies as to whether or not children should be taught the ways of the Jihadist and Fedayeen?
The very nature and character of the HoAP is demonstrated by the to promotion and glorification of violence and terror as part of the Article 15 curriculum for children. But what is dynamically important is not --- whether or not this is done --- the HoAP open admits it and endorses it, but that they believe it is some sort of imperative.
The real question here is whether or not, without regard to the cause, it is healthy for now and into the future, for the children of today to be raised as Jihadist and Fedayeen. Is it really a question in the minds of civilized societies as to whether or not children should be taught the ways of the Jihadist and Fedayeen?
If someone missed the bullseye, it wasn't me. No civilized culture, that has as a goal, the peace and prosperity for its people, believes that children should be taught the way of the Jihadist and Fedayeen.
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moons remarks to the Security Council said:
- Does the Article 15 curriculum for children feed the problem?
- Or does it build a future for peace?
It was the HoAP that said: The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out man women and child." (Arab Higher Committee Delegation 6 Feb 48) The legacy of that declaration has lead to a half-century (+) of conflict. Be sure you teach them that the decision of their forefathers made them what they are today, refugees; not the Israeli and not the Allied Powers. Because it was the attitude of the HoAP that lead to open conflict.
Or you can go the way of peace.
Most Respectfully,
R
pbel
Gold Member
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What has sovereignty got to do with anything? Many peoples who have no sovereignty like the Kurds and others are recognized peoples who have land rights...Your verbosity is nothing less than what Israeli apologists spew daily...
You are not a neutral observer.
You are not a neutral observer.
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- Thread starter
- #65
He did not say the Palestinians don't or didn't have land rights
pbel
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I'm sure Rocco can speak for himself, however the implication of Sovereignty as he stated is that the land was up for grabs.
RoccoR
Gold Member
pbel, et al,
I think you are confused.
I neither defend or apologize for, the Israeli. They can do that for themselves. However, I do oppose Jihadism and Fedayeen action that is tantamount to terrorism.
There are three sets of simultaneous arguments presented by the Arab-Palestinian.
However, the principle challenge you made was the right to spread Jihadist teaching to children.
As a subset of Jihadist and Fedayeen action is the indoctrinate children. And I am critically opposed to the resistance principle that Article 15 curriculum for children should be considered anything but "child abuse." If that makes me "not a neutral observer," then so be it.
Most Respectfully,
R
I think you are confused.
(COMMENT)
I neither defend or apologize for, the Israeli. They can do that for themselves. However, I do oppose Jihadism and Fedayeen action that is tantamount to terrorism.
There are three sets of simultaneous arguments presented by the Arab-Palestinian.
- The first has to do with the establishment of the Palestinian State, which the Palestinian claims by Covenant and Charter to be all of the territory formerly under British Mandate; less the Hashemite Kingdom.
- The second is the deals with settlement establishment inside the Armistice Lines within the Occupied Territories; an Article 49 GCIV and Article 8, Para 2b RS-ICC set of issues.
- Private Property land conversions relative to claims under the right of return, and settlement, reparations, or restitution thereto.
You did not specify and I did not breakout the discussion. I merely lumped them all into one set of disputes that need a negotiated outcome. Remembering, that quoted the axiom that "Nothing can justify terrorism — ever. No grievance, no goal, no cause can excuse terrorist acts."
It should be noted at this point, that I have, on many - many - occasions, argued (especially with our friend P F Tinmore) that property rights and sovereignty are mutually exclusive. I have never argued that some Arab-Palestinians might have some legitimate claim to land holdings. However, I also advocated for those claims to be settled in litigation, and not armed conflict.
It should be noted at this point, that I have, on many - many - occasions, argued (especially with our friend P F Tinmore) that property rights and sovereignty are mutually exclusive. I have never argued that some Arab-Palestinians might have some legitimate claim to land holdings. However, I also advocated for those claims to be settled in litigation, and not armed conflict.
However, the principle challenge you made was the right to spread Jihadist teaching to children.
As a subset of Jihadist and Fedayeen action is the indoctrinate children. And I am critically opposed to the resistance principle that Article 15 curriculum for children should be considered anything but "child abuse." If that makes me "not a neutral observer," then so be it.
Most Respectfully,
R
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pbel
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Same old bull...and Israeli's killing stone throwing children is not child abuse, right? And I suppose Israeli right wing settlers don't teach their children to hate Palestinians, and of course none of the Zionists here ever spread hate or talk to their children about this war.
Give us a break.
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- Thread starter
- #69
The bold is a typical Palestinian propaganda comment used when the pro - Palestinian has no argument.
I don't believe that Zionist settlers teach their children hate, but I'm sure that many extremist settlers teach their children that Palestinians don't belong here (I don't agree with that teaching) but I can guarantee you that Jewish parents or teachers DO NOT teach their kids/students that Jihad is the way to go and that martyrdom is a beautiful thing and that death is alright as long as Jews are killed at the same time.
pbel
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I suppose my responses to Rocco have been testy, but I see hate on these boards everyday and it sickens me...And the blame could be spread to all of us...
If you want the war propaganda to cease, then sign a peace deal and spread hope.
RoccoR
Gold Member
pbel, et al,
I'm sorry, I missed this one.
This would be a wrong assumption. There are two critical transition times.
The first one is cut and dry.
The second one is a bit confusing.
Most Respectfully,
R
I'm sorry, I missed this one.
(COMMENT)
This would be a wrong assumption. There are two critical transition times.
- The first would be in August 1920, when the territory was remanded into the custody of the Allied Powers. While sovereignty changed, nothing effected private land holdings.
- The second was in May 1948, when the Jewish Agency declared independence, and the State of Israel emerged. While sovereignty changed, nothing effected private land holdings.
The first one is cut and dry.
The second one is a bit confusing.
- The UN Created a Partition Plan.
- The UK terminated its Mandate.
- The Mandate transferred to the UNPC under UNSC directive in accordance with the Implementation protocols.
- Israel declares independence.
- The unallocated portion of the remaining Mandate transfer to UNPC Mandate.
- The 1948-49 War opens.
- The UNPC is disbanded.
- Armistice comes into effect.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
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LOL you always say that, but no one made that comment.
You know full well what brought the Jews to Mandatory Palestine
The way you make it seem is as if while they were on the boat, they were planning how they were going to take over the land and kick everybody out !
The Arabs started the war, deal with it
i do. The Zionists imported hundreds of thousands of foreign settlers to fulfill their stated goal of creating a Jewish state in Palestine.
The Palestinians defended themselves from this foreign invasion like anyone else in the world would do and they have the right to do it.
- Thread starter
- #73
The Palestinians went to Europe to start the conflict?
LOL you always say that, but no one made that comment.
You know full well what brought the Jews to Mandatory Palestine
The way you make it seem is as if while they were on the boat, they were planning how they were going to take over the land and kick everybody out !
The Arabs started the war, deal with it
i do. The Zionists imported hundreds of thousands of foreign settlers to fulfill their stated goal of creating a Jewish state in Palestine.
The Palestinians defended themselves from this foreign invasion like anyone else in the world would do and they have the right to do it.
Ok, but they did so with the help and acceptance, as well as PERMISSION from the British, the ones who ruled the land after capturing it from the Ottomans.
As for the Palestinians defending themselves, you say that concerning what the Palestinians are doing now. Do you have any specific examples of the Palestinians defending themselves against Israel in the last, say, 15 years?
I'm curious to see what your perspective of defending one's self is
P F Tinmore
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People have the right to defend themselves, their families, their property, and their country.
P F Tinmore
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That is correct. Palestinian land was never up for grabs.
Neither the LoN, the mandate, nor the UN ever annexed that land. It was merely held in trust. None of them had the authority to transfer any of that land to Israel and none of them did.
And, contrary to popular opinion, Israel did not win any land in the 1948 war.
Foreigners declared Israel on Palestinian land and to this date Israel has never legally acquired any land.
It is not as confusing as you try to make it.
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Why don't you give us a break, Phillip? You have nothing to say about the killing of innocent people by the Muslims because you are just using the Arabs as pawns in your hatred against the Jews. I think most of the viewers are smart enough to figure you out. I can see how some posters can't stand to see Rocco come up with the facts about Israel and the Palestinians. He is the most knowledgeable poster on this particular forum.
I sure wish Tinnie could tell us all the names of the kings of this magical country of Palestine along with other facts, such as their laws and their monetary system. By the way, I guess Tinnie is calling Winston Churchill and the British officials who were stationed in the area liars when they said that the Arabs came in droves from their impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them. It is the same thing we see happening today. I guess Tinnie closes his eyes to all the Muslims leaving their poor countries to go to civilized countries where they can have a better life. Meanwhile, I wonder how many of Tinnie's relatives and friends will heed the call of that Egyptian official who said that Gazans should go home to Egypt. Maybe if there wasn't trouble in Egypt, busloads of them would go back to the country of their roots. I wonder if Tinnie can pull up some document which will show us that this magical country of Palestine was held in trust for Tinnie's people.
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P F Tinmore
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Irrelevant. An independent state is the realization of the right to self determination, not a prerequisite.
Is that a fact? I can post information about any country in the world with a lineage of presidents, emperors, kings,prime ministers, secretaries of state, poet laureates, surgeons general, and court jesters. Save me the trouble and post your list of Palestinian notables. Please.
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