What should the criminal penalty be for an abortion?

[buckeye45_73]

No law stops murder, or rape, or theft.

We still have them, don't we? Because they do prevent them.

And because the one thing the law should do, the one thing the government should do, is protect human rights.

So there is a doctor performing all of those murders, rapes and thefts and he says "I had to committ the murder, the theft and the rape for the health of the woman"?

YOU ARE BEYOND STUPID.

Abortion is wrong no matter who does it. But since it's usually doctors, then yes. See we usually put rapists in jail, because they are the ones that commit rape. Murderers commit murder and ABORTION doctors, commite abortion, but if it's someone else, then they will be convicted. It's really not that difficut.

 

[Alan Stallion]

You want the power of government to force poor women to have their babies they do not want and in most instances do not know how to care for them anyway.

One common tactic for legalized abortion advocacy is to exploit "poor women."

I help Crisis Pregnancy Centers. We provide (without use of taxpayer money) things like clothing, cribs, food. We have councellors, we can give them guidance on how to care for newborns. I would encourage anybody who cares about newborns and new mothers who are struggling to contribute to your local non-abortive crisis pregnancy center.

And if a "poor woman" does not want the child, then we can look at having a relative take care of the child, or put the child up for adoption. It really isn't as dire as you try to make it in your exploitation for your advocacy.

All the time you allow government to determine who and who can not have an abortion legally.
That is a liberal's argument.

My argument is a civil rights argument. If somebody wants to call that liberal or conservative, whatever slur you want to use to try to marginalize my advocacy, I don't care. I will side with civil rights for all.

I oppose abortion but oppose the power of government more.

Yes, so let's get rid of all law enforcement and prisons and the justice system because you have a perverse fear of the proper role of government abusing its authority. (rolls eyes)

Over turn Roe today and this is what happens in America.
It goes back to the states as I believe you know murder is a state's jurisdiction.
So what do we end up if we criminalize abortion?
Now listen up as this is FACT:
Some states will ban it outright, no exceptions at all.
Some states will ban it with few exceptions.
Some states will ban it with many exceptions.
Some states will allow it with few exceptions.
And some states will allow it at will.
So what does a woman that has $ do if she wants an abortion and lives in a state that BANS IT OUTRIGHT? She simply goes to another state that allows it and has her abortion.

I am very much aware what would happen under the scenario that it returns back to the states. That is one possible ruling.

Or another ruling (which I don't expect anytime soon but would welcome) is that civil rights are respected and abortion forbidden by means of Amendment V in conjunction witbh Amendment XIV.

Now please tell me if you are for or against each state determining their own criminal code or do you want the power of government to force states to change their criminal procedure into federalism?

I would take states rights in the short term as being better than what we have now, but as with slavery, all civil rights much be respected and not usurped by state governments who wish to deprive people of their rights, as it was during the slavery era.

And what happens to a woman that lives in a state that bans it outright and she has no $$$?

Too bad. Live with it. Take responsibility for your own actions or give it up for adoption. There are other options than taking a life.

You want to force her through the power of government to have that baby SHE DOES NOT WANT AND IN MOST CASES HAS NO CLUE HOW TO RAISE.

Keep hammering that assertion as if its fact. You're soooooo much smarter than those "stupid poor people." Aren't you so special, and elitist?

 

[Gadawg73]

What should the criminal penalty be for an abortion?
EDIT- OBVIOUSLY this is a question for the anti-women's choice crowd.

As opposed to the pro-abortion crowd?

Same as voluntary manslaughter, at the least, for both the mother and person who performs it.

I know of no one and have never met anyone that is pro abortion.

Show me at any time in this great nation's history where women WERE EVER prosecuted for abortion.
Not there.
The Founders sure were smart men. Funny how the right wing religous KOOKS claim we are a nation founded on Christian principles.
During their time abortion, slavery, gun running, smuggling, distiling whiskey free of all taxes and en masse was legal and everyone minded their own business.

 

[koshergrl]

Good, so the sole purpose of making abortion illegal is admittedly to protect babies, not persecute women.

And you're lying when you say you've never met anyone who is pro abortion. There are members on this board who are pro abortion.

 

[Gadawg73]

You want the power of government to force poor women to have their babies they do not want and in most instances do not know how to care for them anyway.

One common tactic for legalized abortion advocacy is to exploit "poor women."

I help Crisis Pregnancy Centers. We provide (without use of taxpayer money) things like clothing, cribs, food. We have councellors, we can give them guidance on how to care for newborns. I would encourage anybody who cares about newborns and new mothers who are struggling to contribute to your local non-abortive crisis pregnancy center.

And if a "poor woman" does not want the child, then we can look at having a relative take care of the child, or put the child up for adoption. It really isn't as dire as you try to make it in your exploitation for your advocacy.

All the time you allow government to determine who and who can not have an abortion legally.
That is a liberal's argument.

My argument is a civil rights argument. If somebody wants to call that liberal or conservative, whatever slur you want to use to try to marginalize my advocacy, I don't care. I will side with civil rights for all.



Yes, so let's get rid of all law enforcement and prisons and the justice system because you have a perverse fear of the proper role of government abusing its authority. (rolls eyes)



I am very much aware what would happen under the scenario that it returns back to the states. That is one possible ruling.

Or another ruling (which I don't expect anytime soon but would welcome) is that civil rights are respected and abortion forbidden by means of Amendment V in conjunction witbh Amendment XIV.



I would take states rights in the short term as being better than what we have now, but as with slavery, all civil rights much be respected and not usurped by state governments who wish to deprive people of their rights, as it was during the slavery era.

And what happens to a woman that lives in a state that bans it outright and she has no $$$?

Too bad. Live with it. Take responsibility for your own actions or give it up for adoption. There are other options than taking a life.

You want to force her through the power of government to have that baby SHE DOES NOT WANT AND IN MOST CASES HAS NO CLUE HOW TO RAISE.

Keep hammering that assertion as if its fact. You're soooooo much smarter than those "stupid poor people." Aren't you so special, and elitist?

All I do is post the history and the facts Moe.
Abortion is a states' rights issue and always has been.
Legal when this country was founded ON THE LAW, the Constitution, NOT on religous beliefs.
Abortion is a health issue when it was illegal so your claims of civil rights have no legal standing.

 

[koshergrl]

Lol..health issue.

What a lying puke.

 

[g5000]

Good, so the sole purpose of making abortion illegal is admittedly to protect babies, not persecute women.

Exactly.

But pro-choicers will twist the shit out of themselves to divert from this fact. They will try to yank your gaze away from the fetus and get you to believe this is about their vaginas. They will try to yank your gaze away from the million aborted children every year, and will exploit victims of rape and incest, using them as human shields to hide all those dead.

Anything to avoid talking about what is really at stake. The unborn.

These tactics make it painfully obvious they are ashamed of what is going on. They can't even talk about it straighforwardly. The attempt to shame the pro-lifers with vagina talk is classic projection.

 

[Jackson]

I think the people who facilitate abortion should be charged with first degree murder.

I think the women they victimize should be viewed as victims.

Oh right, because they're forced to do it by the doctors. They have no free will of there own. I know as soon as my wife got pregnant she lost her free will and responsibility for her actions.

Hey if a woman brings her 2 year old to the doctor to get "terminated", is she a victim then?



If abortion is murder, then a woman having one is pre-meditated murder in the 1st degree. In states that have the death penalty, it would only be fair then to execute her. The anti-choice right could never bring themselves to do this, however, because they realize that woman getting the abortion may one day be their daughter.

Wouldn't be the same if my daughter killed her child a a day after birth? It is still a child before its birth. Her decision to do the same was life altering decision she has to make that affects her own future.

 

[Alan Stallion]

I oppose abortion...

Putting aside our disagreement for the moment of government's role in abortion, why do you oppose abortion?

All I do is post the history and the facts Moe.

My name is not Moe, so you have already contradicted yourself in your assertion that you post facts.

Abortion is a states' rights issue and always has been.

I never denied that it used to be. Of course the claim of states' rights was once said of slavery too. Times change and awareness occurs when people learn and understand the humanity of all human beings, regardless of race, gender, age, size, ability and development. Ignorance of once was hidden in the womb can no longer be claimed in light of modern technology where we now see the developing pre-born baby, or fetus if you prefer, and greater knowledge of DNA that proves each developing child as a human being.

Legal when this country was founded ON THE LAW, the Constitution, NOT on religous beliefs.

What was THE LAW, the Constitution founded on? What were our founding principles?

Abortion is a health issue when it was illegal so your claims of civil rights have no legal standing.

Abortion is a serious health issue/threat 100% for the preborn, those whose civil rights have been denied.

 

[MuadDib]

You want the power of government to force poor women to have their babies they do not want and in most instances do not know how to care for them anyway.

One common tactic for legalized abortion advocacy is to exploit "poor women."

I help Crisis Pregnancy Centers. We provide (without use of taxpayer money) things like clothing, cribs, food. We have councellors, we can give them guidance on how to care for newborns. I would encourage anybody who cares about newborns and new mothers who are struggling to contribute to your local non-abortive crisis pregnancy center.

And if a "poor woman" does not want the child, then we can look at having a relative take care of the child, or put the child up for adoption. It really isn't as dire as you try to make it in your exploitation for your advocacy.



My argument is a civil rights argument. If somebody wants to call that liberal or conservative, whatever slur you want to use to try to marginalize my advocacy, I don't care. I will side with civil rights for all.



Yes, so let's get rid of all law enforcement and prisons and the justice system because you have a perverse fear of the proper role of government abusing its authority. (rolls eyes)



I am very much aware what would happen under the scenario that it returns back to the states. That is one possible ruling.

Or another ruling (which I don't expect anytime soon but would welcome) is that civil rights are respected and abortion forbidden by means of Amendment V in conjunction witbh Amendment XIV.



I would take states rights in the short term as being better than what we have now, but as with slavery, all civil rights much be respected and not usurped by state governments who wish to deprive people of their rights, as it was during the slavery era.



Too bad. Live with it. Take responsibility for your own actions or give it up for adoption. There are other options than taking a life.

You want to force her through the power of government to have that baby SHE DOES NOT WANT AND IN MOST CASES HAS NO CLUE HOW TO RAISE.

Keep hammering that assertion as if its fact. You're soooooo much smarter than those "stupid poor people." Aren't you so special, and elitist?

All I do is post the history and the facts Moe.
Abortion is a states' rights issue and always has been.
Legal when this country was founded ON THE LAW, the Constitution, NOT on religous beliefs.
Abortion is a health issue when it was illegal so your claims of civil rights have no legal standing.

The country WAS founded on religious beliefs. The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, drafted in 1777 and adopted in 1786 was one of the early pieces of legislation to guarantee free exercise of religion.

It opens with, "An Act for establishing religious Freedom.
Whereas, Almighty God hath created the mind free;"

The Northwest Ordinance of 1787 preceded the Bill of Rights and proclaimed religious tolerance for territories in the westward expansion.

Then there's that 1st Amendment of 1791 that said "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion". It's purpose was also to guarantee religious freedom.

 

[CaféAuLait]

What should the criminal penalty be for an abortion?

EDIT- OBVIOUSLY this is a question for the anti-women's choice crowd.

I would say the same as those states that prosecute men/women for murdering a fetus.

This is something which has always confused me. A mother can take the life of a baby but if a man were to adminster a abortifacient without her knowledge, he can be charged with murder. How can there be a double standard? Why is this fetus a baby when killed by another but not its mother?

How can there be two definitions of “life"?

 

[Cowman]

Liberals don't embrace the poor. They pawn them off on the government, shut down the industries in which they work, and they kill their children. Then if anyone touches the programs they have established to support them, they pronounce that more need to die.

Kill their children? If you ******* look around you, we have no shortage of very poor children in this country. Don't ******* talk to me about poor children when you assholes won't even support free school lunches for those children.

You act as if those people who get abortions are getting them forced upon them, and that they wanted to raise that child. FALSE. It's their CHOICE to end the pregnancy. Keep your Jihadist hands off their bodies.

 

[Cowman]

What should the criminal penalty be for an abortion?

EDIT- OBVIOUSLY this is a question for the anti-women's choice crowd.

I would say the same as those states that prosecute men/women for murdering a fetus.

This is something which has always confused me. A mother can take the life of a baby but if a man were to adminster a abortifacient without her knowledge, he can be charged with murder. How can there be a double standard? Why is this fetus a baby when killed by another but not its mother?

How can there be two definitions of “life"?

BECAUSE IT'S THE ******* MOTHER'S BODY.

How ******* stupid are you people that you can't see the difference? WHY ARE YOU SO PROFOUNDLY DENSE?

 

[CaféAuLait]

What should the criminal penalty be for an abortion?

EDIT- OBVIOUSLY this is a question for the anti-women's choice crowd.

I would say the same as those states that prosecute men/women for murdering a fetus.

This is something which has always confused me. A mother can take the life of a baby but if a man were to adminster a abortifacient without her knowledge, he can be charged with murder. How can there be a double standard? Why is this fetus a baby when killed by another but not its mother?

How can there be two definitions of “life"?

BECAUSE IT'S THE ******* MOTHER'S BODY.

How ******* stupid are you people that you can't see the difference? WHY ARE YOU SO PROFOUNDLY DENSE?

Damn, can you debate or without name calling I wonder?

If he gave her an abortifacient and killed the baby, NOT THE MOTHER, why is he charged with MURDER and not assault of the mother if this 'fetus' is not a life? How can there be a double standard as to what a life is?

It either is or isnt.

 

[Cowman]

I would say the same as those states that prosecute men/women for murdering a fetus.

This is something which has always confused me. A mother can take the life of a baby but if a man were to adminster a abortifacient without her knowledge, he can be charged with murder. How can there be a double standard? Why is this fetus a baby when killed by another but not its mother?

How can there be two definitions of “life"?

BECAUSE IT'S THE ******* MOTHER'S BODY.

How ******* stupid are you people that you can't see the difference? WHY ARE YOU SO PROFOUNDLY DENSE?

Damn, can you debate or without name calling I wonder?

If he gave her an abortifacient and killed the baby, NOT THE MOTHER, why is he charged with MURDER and not assault of the mother if this 'fetus' is not a life? How can there be a double standard as to what a life is?

It either is or isnt.

Because it's all down to the mother's choice on if she intends to keep the fetus or not. Things aren't defined as simply as they are in your narrow world. Get used to it.

Also, does my name calling ******* upset you? You big *****. Develop a backbone.

 

[CaféAuLait]

BECAUSE IT'S THE ******* MOTHER'S BODY.

How ******* stupid are you people that you can't see the difference? WHY ARE YOU SO PROFOUNDLY DENSE?

Damn, can you debate or without name calling I wonder?

If he gave her an abortifacient and killed the baby, NOT THE MOTHER, why is he charged with MURDER and not assault of the mother if this 'fetus' is not a life? How can there be a double standard as to what a life is?

It either is or isnt.

Because it's all down to the mother's choice on if she intends to keep the fetus or not. Things aren't defined as simply as they are in your narrow world. Get used to it.

Also, does my name calling ******* upset you? You big *****. Develop a backbone.

No it does not bother me, your name calling can be deemed juvenile, and shows that one lacks a valid argument. I was just wondering if you had it in you to debate without name calling.

If a fetus/baby is NOT A life and the mother can end it if she chooses, it should not matter who takes that life, mother, father, stranger. It is either a life or not. Just because Mom did not “choose” to end the baby’s life should not equate to murder charges as opposed to assault of the mother, if the baby was deemed not a life to begin with.

 

[koshergrl]

Liberals don't embrace the poor. They pawn them off on the government, shut down the industries in which they work, and they kill their children. Then if anyone touches the programs they have established to support them, they pronounce that more need to die.

Kill their children? If you ******* look around you, we have no shortage of very poor children in this country. Don't ******* talk to me about poor children when you assholes won't even support free school lunches for those children.

You act as if those people who get abortions are getting them forced upon them, and that they wanted to raise that child. FALSE. It's their CHOICE to end the pregnancy. Keep your Jihadist hands off their bodies.

The men who freak out about abortion the hardest are the ones who are the most likely to force a woman to get one.

 

[Cowman]

Liberals don't embrace the poor. They pawn them off on the government, shut down the industries in which they work, and they kill their children. Then if anyone touches the programs they have established to support them, they pronounce that more need to die.

Kill their children? If you ******* look around you, we have no shortage of very poor children in this country. Don't ******* talk to me about poor children when you assholes won't even support free school lunches for those children.

You act as if those people who get abortions are getting them forced upon them, and that they wanted to raise that child. FALSE. It's their CHOICE to end the pregnancy. Keep your Jihadist hands off their bodies.

The men who freak out about abortion the hardest are the ones who are the most likely to force a woman to get one.

What? I work for a women's rights organization. Why would I force a woman to get an abortion? Sorry, but your scenario just doesn't play out.

Also what the **** is the point of your idiotic negative reps with commas in them? You act as if those matter.

 

[koshergrl]

If it doesn't matter, one wonders why the freak out.

Women's right organization...lol....the beard for PP. The women who coerced the woman in RvW to kill her baby. The women who protect PP so they don't have to report when children are dragged in to get abortions, in order to protect the men who get them pregnant.

I'll bet. I wonder...do pimps work for a women's organization?

I bet they write that on their taxes...

 

[g5000]

BECAUSE IT'S THE ******* MOTHER'S BODY

Nope. It's an unborn baby's body. Why are you so profoundly dense?