What role did education have in making this country great?

[Samson]

we used to have the best in the world untill the right beat the shit out of our schools

How would You know?

 

[Intense]

If we don't educate our children, what will the future of America be like?

On whose terms???

What role did education have in making this country great?

What Role did Education have in turning us into a Statist Entitlement State?

What Role did Education have in conditioning us and subjecting us to the will of Bureaucrats, void of reason and consent?

 

[Samson]

If we don't educate our children, what will the future of America be like?

On whose terms???

What role did education have in making this country great?

What Role did Education have in turning us into a Statist Entitlement State?

What Role did Education have in conditioning us and subjecting us to the will of Bureaucrats, void of reason and consent?

By "us" I suppose you mean yourself and the mouse in your pocket?


Poor mouse.

 

[Intense]

If we don't educate our children, what will the future of America be like?

On whose terms???

What role did education have in making this country great?

What Role did Education have in turning us into a Statist Entitlement State?

What Role did Education have in conditioning us and subjecting us to the will of Bureaucrats, void of reason and consent?

By "us" I suppose you mean yourself and the mouse in your pocket?


Poor mouse.

Maybe we could learn to stop confusing Education with Indoctrination. That would be a nice change, wouldn't it. Why don't you meditate on that, Samson, while you are doing that I think, me, and the mouse in my pocket are going to enjoy some fried Calamari.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

if we don't educate our children, what will the future of america be like?

what role did education have in anything?

education is a concept, an idea, even a goal. Concepts do not have roles. Next time i see jerry brown i will ask him what he thinks will happen with all the cuts to higher education in california. I expect i already know the answer, but i want to get it from a democrat so you can't argue with it.

i rest my case!​

What does me repeating your question prove?

 

[Artevelde]

Pretty big role I would say. But it was a lot better before the Federal government got involved.

IMHO this is the best post of the thread.

Ironically, it appears to be the least quoted.

Your humble opinion is appreciated. Personally I feel postings should be concise and to the point. I don't care much for huge copy-paste pieces.

 

[chanel]

Big. (is that concise enough?)

As a public school teacher, I try to stay away from multi-syllabic words and detailed responses. There just isn't enough time in the school day.
______________________________________________

A free, appropriate, public education is a right that should be preserved. But with that said, we need to carefully redefine "appropriate". "College for All" will be a catastrophe for our students and our future. Ask any high school teacher, regardless of their politics.

Hey deanie: What role did tradesmen (carpenters, electricians, bridge builders, etc) have in making this country great? What role has the military had in making this country great? Sheez.

 

[editec]

What role did education have in making this country great?

None, none at all. Just ask your local GOP loyalists.

According to them, the only advancement that ever made this nation great was tax breaks for the wealthy.

 

[Katzndogz]

Here is a glaring example of how bad the state of education is. LAUSD is raising the bar for high school graduates. Raising? Really? What are they really doing?

LAUSD Looks To Raise The Bar For Graduating Seniors « CBS Los Angeles

Officials with the Los Angeles Unified School District were considering a plan on Wednesday that would require all students to take advanced courses and earn at least a “C” in order to graduate.

The change would require students graduating in 2016 to pass a third year of math and two years of foreign language courses. With these changes, the district would no longer require the currently mandated health and applied technology courses

To help students meet the tougher new standards, the district is proposing to shrink the graduation requirement from 230 to 170 units

Lowering the graduation requirement is actually raising the bar? Who are they kidding? Liberals?

Eliminating applied technology classes is going to prepare who?

Since more than half of LAUSD students speak a foreign language at home, two years of foreign language is a bore at most.

These prepared students will go off to college who will be required to lower their standards to accommodate the prepared student's ability or lack thereof.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Preschool education like Head Start has been such a failure that even obama can't lie about it.
It needs to end.
Obama Administration Report Shows Head Start Ineffective
In sum, this report finds that providing access to Head Start has benefits for both 3-year-olds and 4-year-olds in the cognitive, health, and parenting domains, and for 3-year-olds in the social-emotional domain. However, the benefits of access to Head Start at age four are largely absent by 1st grade for the program population as a whole. For 3-year-olds, there are few sustained benefits, although access to the program may lead to improved parent-child relationships through 1st grade…
.

1) The study compared Head start to other per-school alternatives
2) The study concluded that there were lasting beneficial effects of having Head start instead of other alternatives such as increased health, better social skills.
3) The study you link to is comparing impoverished children with Head start to rich children.
4) Seriously you are quoting the Heritage foundation. Jesus ehat would be like a communist sourcing Karl Marx as evidence that communism is better than capitalism.
5) There has been like 20 different studies on the effects of preschool with all of them showing long term benefits far exceeding the costs.
Study shows long-term benefits of preschool | eSchool News
^A Chicago study found that two years of pre-school costing a total of 18,000 results in 90,000(1-5 cost benefit ratio) in benefits including reduced crime, increased earnings, and tax revenue, and decrease health costs.
Students who attended pre-school were 7% more likely to finish high school, 27% more likely to finish college, had 7% higher wages, 36% less likely to abuse drugs, and 40% less likely to have been incarcerated for a crime.

http://nieer.org/resources/files/Benefits.pdf
^A New York study finds lots of benefits for having been in pre-school. Including:
Being 50% less likely to be on welfare, 60% more likely to own a home, 23% more likely to be employed, and 50% less likely to have been arrested.
The total cost of Pre-schools averaged at 20,000, and the total benefits averaged 156,000. (over a 7-1 benefit cost ratio).

Public Policy Forum
http://nieer.org/docs/?DocID=57
^In North Carolina a pre-school program which was specially tailored to children’s needs produced a 2.5- 4-1 benefit cost ratio.
^Another preschool program recorded benefit cost ratios above 6-1.
^While another preschool program recorded benefit cost ratios of 12-1.
^There are another half dozen studies that school high benefits from preschool .

 

[starcraftzzz]

More like in the 1980s, after Carter made it a cabinet level post and started throwing money, and mandates, around.

Test scores have increased since 1980; furthermore the DOE's funding is primarily in pre-school programs, special education and college funding all of which create more economic benefits then they cost

We didn't do tests back then, and teachers are getting better at cheating.

Oh I see st according to you the data on test scores form 1980 isn't real. Perhaps you think electricity isn't real as well

 

[Katzndogz]

Test scores have increased because the tests have been dumbed down and the teachers give out the answers. Then if someone still fails, the raw score is adjusted.

No matter how superb test scores are and what advancements tests PROVE, they can't get over the sad facts that graduates cannot read, cannot do simple arithmetic without a calculator, cannot write their own names, cannot recognize the United States on a world map and does not know who George Washington is.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Test scores have increased because the tests have been dumbed down and the teachers give out the answers. Then if someone still fails, the raw score is adjusted.

No matter how superb test scores are and what advancements tests PROVE, they can't get over the sad facts that graduates cannot read, cannot do simple arithmetic without a calculator, cannot write their own names, cannot recognize the United States on a world map and does not know who George Washington is.

I see so according to you taking the same test every year means that the test is getting easier... Do you not know the definition of easy? Furthermore the teachers who would cheat would of been cheating back in the 80's as well so your point is moot unless you can supply evidence to back your claim up of which I doubt you have any

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Test scores have increased since 1980; furthermore the DOE's funding is primarily in pre-school programs, special education and college funding all of which create more economic benefits then they cost

We didn't do tests back then, and teachers are getting better at cheating.

Oh I see st according to you the data on test scores form 1980 isn't real. Perhaps you think electricity isn't real as well

What test scores?

 

[Samson]

Big. (is that concise enough?)

As a public school teacher, I try to stay away from multi-syllabic words and detailed responses. There just isn't enough time in the school day.
______________________________________________

A free, appropriate, public education is a right that should be preserved. But with that said, we need to carefully redefine "appropriate". "College for All" will be a catastrophe for our students and our future. Ask any high school teacher, regardless of their politics.

Hey deanie: What role did tradesmen (carpenters, electricians, bridge builders, etc) have in making this country great? What role has the military had in making this country great? Sheez.

College for all will be a catastrophe?



Then maybe we should fund tuition for illegal immigants = Democrat solution.

 

[Katzndogz]

Test scores have increased because the tests have been dumbed down and the teachers give out the answers. Then if someone still fails, the raw score is adjusted.

No matter how superb test scores are and what advancements tests PROVE, they can't get over the sad facts that graduates cannot read, cannot do simple arithmetic without a calculator, cannot write their own names, cannot recognize the United States on a world map and does not know who George Washington is.

I see so according to you taking the same test every year means that the test is getting easier... Do you not know the definition of easy? Furthermore the teachers who would cheat would of been cheating back in the 80's as well so your point is moot unless you can supply evidence to back your claim up of which I doubt you have any

I gave you evidence. You just don't like it.

How do these students graduate? If the tests are an accurate assessment, how can they graduate?

Many Graduates Can`t Read Their High School Diplomas - Chicago Tribune

MINNEAPOLIS, MINN. — Barb Moses` high school diploma was a worthless scrap of shame.

Awarded to her upon graduation from St. Paul Central High School in 1976, it neglected to mention that her reading level was no better than a 3d grader`s and that she couldn`t comprehend what was scrawled by her teachers on classroom blackboards.

It didn`t say that she had flunked almost all her tests and essays, and that she was promoted from grade to grade merely because she showed up for class.

``I felt terrible getting my diploma,`` said Moses, 28. ``I wanted to give it back to them.``

Her plight is similar to that of tens of thousands of people who are functionally illiterate but who passed unimpeded through grade 12 only to discover themselves woefully unprepared for life after school.

After years of cutbacks in remedial education programs by financially strapped school districts, Minnesota now is pressuring schools to help people such as Barb Moses.

Passed during the 1985 legislative session, the Minnesota ``assurance of mastery`` law requires the state`s 434 school districts to submit plans by this year for identifying and training students at the elementary, junior high and high school levels who don`t have minimum skills in math and communications (reading, listening, speaking and writing).

There is something very wrong when after students pass the tests and graduate, that they need remedial education.

 

[starcraftzzz]

We didn't do tests back then, and teachers are getting better at cheating.

Oh I see st according to you the data on test scores form 1980 isn't real. Perhaps you think electricity isn't real as well

What test scores?

The ones i posted dumbass
Furthermore test scores have increased since 1980.
Redirect Notice[/QUOTE]

 

[starcraftzzz]

Test scores have increased because the tests have been dumbed down and the teachers give out the answers. Then if someone still fails, the raw score is adjusted.

No matter how superb test scores are and what advancements tests PROVE, they can't get over the sad facts that graduates cannot read, cannot do simple arithmetic without a calculator, cannot write their own names, cannot recognize the United States on a world map and does not know who George Washington is.

I see so according to you taking the same test every year means that the test is getting easier... Do you not know the definition of easy? Furthermore the teachers who would cheat would of been cheating back in the 80's as well so your point is moot unless you can supply evidence to back your claim up of which I doubt you have any

I gave you evidence. You just don't like it.

How do these students graduate? If the tests are an accurate assessment, how can they graduate?

Many Graduates Can`t Read Their High School Diplomas - Chicago Tribune

So according to you illiteracy decline since 1980, so that means the FED getting into education in the 1980's means it was a failure. So according to you people being able to read is a failure. Furthermore the tests have not changed and the the ironic thing is that you just proved that logicall teachers/schools cheated more BEFORE 1980 because they've now implemented measures to combat that

So thank you for proving that I am right and you are wrong; it really is a sing of good character and intellect to admit you were 100% wrong. And I exalt you for that

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Oh I see st according to you the data on test scores form 1980 isn't real. Perhaps you think electricity isn't real as well

What test scores?

The ones i posted dumbass
Furthermore test scores have increased since 1980.
Redirect Notice

[/QUOTE]

That chart shows how writing an essay reduces the racial achievement gap on Math tests in a single state. Want to try again?

 

[Katzndogz]

Liberals might claim that test scores are rising, when in fact the rise in test scores is in direct reverse proportion to actual ability. What they can't fix with a chart is that the decline in the number of educated adults has resulted in a decline of a skilled and educated workforce among Americans. There is a rise in the skilled and educated foreign work force.

http://www.petersoninstitute.org/publications/chapters_preview/4136/01iie4136.pdf

This study indicates that the future of the American workforce if the current policies and trends continue is that Americans will simply stop adjusting to educational needs at all in any appreciaable way.

The study draws a disctinction between the degreed and highly skilled. Considering additional studies taken in conjunction with this one, we have more students graduating with degrees and fewer graduating with degrees that require skill. American students today are drawn to degrees in social trivia rather than those requiring skills in science and math. Degrees that have no course work taught primarily by lecture have the largest number of graduates. Likely as long as we have people who believe a rise in test scores really reflects the degree of education this serious problem can't be fixed.

A close anolagy would be a kid who continually wins trophies because no one keeps score and every one is a winner grows up believing they are qualified for a national professional sports team. They look at their trophies and awards and can't understand that this means they have trophies and awards, that doesnt make them qualified.