What Really Happens When You Don't Separate Church and State

[The Rabbi]

Forget it. She's a troll. She posts crap with no basis and then verbally insults anyone who calls her on it.

you're a pathological liar.

perhaps you've breathed in too many paint fumes. or do you not do that working the cash register at home depot?

A little projecting there? Still waiting to see any refutation that Israel is not run on Jewish law and the rabbis are not in charge of certain aspects of civic life.

You have nothing because you are an empty headed poseur. Get back and scrub the urinals at "The White Swallow", you TS bouncer, you.

 

[Charles_Main]

I think some are missing a fundamental point. Islam is more than just a religion. It is a culture and way of life. I don't think it's as simple as "separating" church and state when the customs, traditions, and laws are embedded into every aspect of their lives.

We in the West see religion as a part-time obligation. Go to church on Sunday, donate a portion of money to the poor box, go home and forget about it until next Sunday. It's easy to "separate" church and state under these circumstances to the point that we get all wrapped around the axle because someone erected a Nativity scene in front of city hall.

I don't advocate a theocracy and think it's a good thing that we separate church and state (up to a point: I think the whole city hall Nativity scene debate is childish and stupid). However, I think that it's pretty arrogant of us to think that countries like Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia can simply decide to separate church and state overnight. Their societies have to evolve over time to reach that point.

Perhaps the solution is to set up more McDonalds, Wal-Marts and Blockbuster Videos in those countries to speed up the process.

Bulcrap....Christianity is also a way of life and a culture. Celebrating the birth of Christ...treating our enemies as we do our friends...giving what we can to others....yeah, there are some sunday only Christians...but most aren't like that. Like I said when I joined the coffee thread, I carry my religion with me everywhere.....I show my religion in every thing I do....and btw, I seldom go to church on Sunday.

The problem is that Islam is not only a violent religion, it's a controlling one and they are controlling the government. They are every bit as bad as the Spanish Inquisition and we can all agree that that was wrong. I do not understand anybody defending these practices of the Muslims....for ANY reason.

Once again, the real mechanism of Control is Sharia, Which is a political System of Laws based on the religion, but which is not an actual part of the religion.

 

[Charles_Main]

Forget it. She's a troll. She posts crap with no basis and then verbally insults anyone who calls her on it.

you're a pathological liar.

perhaps you've breathed in too many paint fumes. or do you not do that working the cash register at home depot?

A little projecting there? Still waiting to see any refutation that Israel is not run on Jewish law and the rabbis are not in charge of certain aspects of civic life.

You have nothing because you are an empty headed poseur. Get back and scrub the urinals at "The White Swallow", you TS bouncer, you.

Sorry Rabbi but you are just plain wrong, and I personally CAN NOT STAND jil most of the time.

Israel is a very Secular Nation that strives at every level to keep Religion out of Politics. Much like the US.

 

[The Rabbi]

you're a pathological liar.

perhaps you've breathed in too many paint fumes. or do you not do that working the cash register at home depot?

A little projecting there? Still waiting to see any refutation that Israel is not run on Jewish law and the rabbis are not in charge of certain aspects of civic life.

You have nothing because you are an empty headed poseur. Get back and scrub the urinals at "The White Swallow", you TS bouncer, you.

Sorry Rabbi but you are just plain wrong, and I personally CAN NOT STAND jil most of the time.

Israel is a very Secular Nation that strives at every level to keep Religion out of Politics. Much like the US.

I am plain wrong? Please post a link! Please post a refutation of the three sites I posted explaining how the CHief Rabbinate is in charge of personal status issues, like marriage, in the state. Please explain how a secular state makes coalitions with Orthodox religious parties in every election.
Either that or admit the obvious, that you are wrong, and get with the show.

 

[Charles_Main]

A little projecting there? Still waiting to see any refutation that Israel is not run on Jewish law and the rabbis are not in charge of certain aspects of civic life.

You have nothing because you are an empty headed poseur. Get back and scrub the urinals at "The White Swallow", you TS bouncer, you.

Sorry Rabbi but you are just plain wrong, and I personally CAN NOT STAND jil most of the time.

Israel is a very Secular Nation that strives at every level to keep Religion out of Politics. Much like the US.

I am plain wrong? Please post a link! Please post a refutation of the three sites I posted explaining how the CHief Rabbinate is in charge of personal status issues, like marriage, in the state. Please explain how a secular state makes coalitions with Orthodox religious parties in every election.
Either that or admit the obvious, that you are wrong, and get with the show.

He is in charge of those Issues only for people who wish him to be, Just like the Pope is in charge of Catholics only if they choose to allow him to be. The government of Israel operates on strict Secular ground bud.

Take it from someone who has family who was born there, and who has been there more than once.

Seriously.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sorry Rabbi but you are just plain wrong, and I personally CAN NOT STAND jil most of the time.

Israel is a very Secular Nation that strives at every level to keep Religion out of Politics. Much like the US.

I am plain wrong? Please post a link! Please post a refutation of the three sites I posted explaining how the CHief Rabbinate is in charge of personal status issues, like marriage, in the state. Please explain how a secular state makes coalitions with Orthodox religious parties in every election.
Either that or admit the obvious, that you are wrong, and get with the show.

He is in charge of those Issues only for people who wish him to be, Just like the Pope is in charge of Catholics only if they choose to allow him to be. The government of Israel operates on strict Secular ground bud.

Take it from someone who has family who was born there, and who has been there more than once.

Seriously.

Nope.
If you're Jewish and you want to be legally married in Israel, you need the rabbinate. You can go abroad, like to Cypress and have it recognized. But the rabbinate calls the shots.
Still waiting for a link or refutation of some kind. "My family was born there" doesn't cut it.

And are you denying the immense influence of Orthodox parties? Go to Israel and try proseletyzing for Christianity and see what it gets you.

 

[Charles_Main]

I am plain wrong? Please post a link! Please post a refutation of the three sites I posted explaining how the CHief Rabbinate is in charge of personal status issues, like marriage, in the state. Please explain how a secular state makes coalitions with Orthodox religious parties in every election.
Either that or admit the obvious, that you are wrong, and get with the show.

He is in charge of those Issues only for people who wish him to be, Just like the Pope is in charge of Catholics only if they choose to allow him to be. The government of Israel operates on strict Secular ground bud.

Take it from someone who has family who was born there, and who has been there more than once.

Seriously.

Nope.
If you're Jewish and you want to be legally married in Israel, you need the rabbinate. You can go abroad, like to Cypress and have it recognized. But the rabbinate calls the shots.
Still waiting for a link or refutation of some kind. "My family was born there" doesn't cut it.

And are you denying the immense influence of Orthodox parties? Go to Israel and try proseletyzing for Christianity and see what it gets you.

Be married in Israel is an act of the Church Brainiac You only need his blessing if you wish the Marriage to be recognized by the Jewish Church as official. The state Recognizes it regardless. Christians and Muslims also marry in Israel you know.

Or did you think there were none there?

You comment about proselytizing proves your Massive Ignorance about Israel.

Both Christian and Muslims proselytize in Israel openly and freely all the time.

I suggest you take a trip there and try and deny it.

lol

 

[jillian]

A little projecting there? Still waiting to see any refutation that Israel is not run on Jewish law and the rabbis are not in charge of certain aspects of civic life.

You have nothing because you are an empty headed poseur. Get back and scrub the urinals at "The White Swallow", you TS bouncer, you.

you've already been told you're wrong by more than one of us. you haven't a clue. there is no more pressure from orthodox jews in israel than there is from the religious right on government here.

you've clearly never been so don't have a clue.

as for the rest of your unfocused little rant, i know who i am and what i do for a living. but i did apparently strike a nerve.

i'm ok with that, nutter.

 

[shintao]

warring-against-god-human-rights-activist-and-journalist tried under sharia law. lintermingling faith and government.

It wouldn't make much sense to go against the religious governments wishes, after countless examples before. It is none of the US's business. Let the UN do their job if they chose to.

 

[jillian]

warring-against-god-human-rights-activist-and-journalist tried under sharia law. lintermingling faith and government.

It wouldn't make much sense to go against the religious governments wishes, after countless examples before. It is none of the US's business. Let the UN do their job if they chose to.

i don't think i said anything about doing something about it. i posted it as a cautionary tale.

 

[goldcatt]

Forget it. She's a troll. She posts crap with no basis and then verbally insults anyone who calls her on it.

you're a pathological liar.

perhaps you've breathed in too many paint fumes. or do you not do that working the cash register at home depot?

A little projecting there? Still waiting to see any refutation that Israel is not run on Jewish law and the rabbis are not in charge of certain aspects of civic life.

You have nothing because you are an empty headed poseur. Get back and scrub the urinals at "The White Swallow", you TS bouncer, you.

I'm confused about what exactly you're arguing here. Are you claiming Israel is a theocracy and that's a good thing, or are you anti-theocracy and therefore bashing Israel, or are you just not sure wtf you're arguing as long as you can keep typing? A coherent thesis would be helpful right about now.

And wtf is "The White Swallow" and more important, how are you so intimately familiar with it? Inquiring minds and all...

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

If they were interested in having the Lord removed from the government, they could have used a different calendar (say the Roman one, the "society" many secularists claim the founding fathers used as a "sole" model). If that "annotation" was required "by law" and this was essentially "the first law" why did they include it?

Please keep doing your spin, it just makes you silly.

You are uneducated. The annotation as such was required by law. Do you understand that? Do you understand there were no other alternatives?

They were setting up the country. They could have started up their own calendar. They had choices, but as Christians, they "chose" to use the Lord as the foundation for their time.

The Convention was careful not to actually vote for using the phrase "in the year of our Lord." This was done to deceive the Christians into supporting the Constitution.

Why did they pick that one, if they did not want the "Lord" involved in the country?

Why did they drop the "in the year of our Lord" when they dated the Bil of Rights?

Why did they say that the rights stated in the Bill of Rights was endowed by the Creator?

They didn't, dude.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are secular documents that do not permit organized religion in any way to coerce non-believers by power of law.

The Declaration of Independence is a document that states our rights come from deity. However, the document very carefully avoids such words as Heavenly Father, Jehovah, Jesus, our Savior, in order to make very clearl that although the U.S. was a nation generally of Christians, our country is not under law a Christian nation.

 

[Shogun]

Forget it. She's a troll. She posts crap with no basis and then verbally insults anyone who calls her on it.

ahh.. the eternal victim...


another day, another nis...

And it wouldn't be a thread mentioning Israel without the sudden appearance of USMB's resident Jew-hater, Shogun.

you are a one trick pony, dude. time for you to get another schtick out of a .25 cent machine in the vestibule of your local wal mart.

 

[JScott]

For many years Britain tortured and maimed Indians. For many years France committed atrocities in Africa. For many years Belgium slaughtered Africans.
What is your point here??

Alright, a different angle, what happened to said countries that were "devoid" of religion?

They killed MILLIONS?????

They didnt kill millions because they were devoid of religion.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

Did the House and Senate of the First U. S. Congress really pray at each daily session?

I say no.

What say you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I know there were questions about the propriety of doing at the Constitutional Convention. Franklin's general attitude was, who cares because God doesn't hate us. Of course, Ben was caught up in trying to understand the gnostic concept of the demi-urge, so his theology was not consistent.

I don't know about the 1st Congress.

 

[Old Rocks]

If a 'right wing' member of the forum had posted this, truthmatters would be asking us why we hate Islam and telling us we're encouraging Muslim fundamentalists to attack us, that we want a 'war with Islam'. Funny old world.

And you are full of shit.

 

[Micky G. Jagger]

Did the House and Senate of the First U. S. Congress really pray at each daily session?

I say no.

What say you?

The evidence indicates the First U. S. Congress did not pray at each daily session. There is no record of a Chaplain conducting a prayer service or offering a prayer during any daily session of the House or Senate of the First U. S. Congress.

The First U. S. Congress elected two chaplains.

Congress paid it's chaplains less than 1/4 of what it paid the Congressmen. Chaplains were paid at a rate of $500 per year. Since Congress only met for six months every years, the Chaplains were paid $250 each year. One year, when Congress was in session less than six months, the Chaplains received less than $250.

Congress established no official daily, regular or routine duties for the Chaplains. However, it did establish duties for every other employee of Congress.

One Chaplains did perform a morning prayer service for congressmen at least one time. However, the service was before the daily session convened, so it didn't actually take place during the official daily session.

Attendance by members of Congress at the morning prayer services conducted by the Chaplains was "scant", according to James Madison.

The first two Chaplains to Congress were both leaders of very large and powerful religious societies in New York.

 

[The Rabbi]

He is in charge of those Issues only for people who wish him to be, Just like the Pope is in charge of Catholics only if they choose to allow him to be. The government of Israel operates on strict Secular ground bud.

Take it from someone who has family who was born there, and who has been there more than once.

Seriously.

Nope.
If you're Jewish and you want to be legally married in Israel, you need the rabbinate. You can go abroad, like to Cypress and have it recognized. But the rabbinate calls the shots.
Still waiting for a link or refutation of some kind. "My family was born there" doesn't cut it.

And are you denying the immense influence of Orthodox parties? Go to Israel and try proseletyzing for Christianity and see what it gets you.

Be married in Israel is an act of the Church Brainiac You only need his blessing if you wish the Marriage to be recognized by the Jewish Church as official. The state Recognizes it regardless. Christians and Muslims also marry in Israel you know.

Or did you think there were none there?

You comment about proselytizing proves your Massive Ignorance about Israel.

Both Christian and Muslims proselytize in Israel openly and freely all the time.

I suggest you take a trip there and try and deny it.

lol

Still waiting for a link that somehow negates the proofs I've posted. Go ahead. Any day now sweetheart.
What do Christians think about Israel banning proselytizing? - Yahoo! Answers