What Kind of Moron Really Thinks This is a "Floors Pancaking" Collapse on 9/11?

[Soupnazi630]

The real story is that neither AA11 nor UA175 struck the towers.

The north tower was struck by a smaller airplane, described by callers in to NYPD and so reported by mainstream media in the very early days as a commuter aircraft or corporate aircraft. That strike was actually recorded in the background by a parking lot camera near WTC. It was a very short clip which I viewed several times at Pilots For 911 Truth on the internet. You could not tell exactly what type it was, but it was a smaller airplane. By about 2006 it was taken down from the internet.

The strike on the South Tower which the whole world saw was a B767, but it was modified into an apparent tanker configuration, and was not a stock 767 in airline service. The engine that flew off at impact and landed on the sidewalk blocks away was determined by those who work on those things to be an engine from a 747

That is all delusional fiction not a real story

your claims are ancient and proven false years ago

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Where are the people listed in the planes' passenger lists? Barbara Olsen springs to mind.

An entire family from my neighborhood, including two little girls, were killed on that plane by Muslims in the name of Islam.

 

[buttercup]

There are so many conspiracy theories about 911 because the Official Conspiracy Theory is intellectually bankrupt as it is contradicted by all the known facts. That so many people still buy into 20+ years later is testimony to how gullible the average American is.

Here's the Official Conspiracy Theory:

 

[Soupnazi630]

Negative, they were both drones.

Wrong liar

There were no drones they were airc raft and you cannot challenge THAT FACT

 

[Soupnazi630]

Here's the Official Conspiracy Theory:

There IS NO official conspiracy theory

Your video is fiction

 

[PeterPilot]

Where are the people listed in the planes' passenger lists? Barbara Olsen springs to mind.

Do your own research and let me know the answer to your question.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Do your own research and let me know the answer to your question.

You need to start doing research of any kind

You have only checked out a few videos and fallen for some total fiction

 

[PeterPilot]

Here's the Official Conspiracy Theory:

Yes, that's a great one!!!

 

[hadit]

Do your own research and let me know the answer to your question.

I have. They died and their bodies were destroyed when their planes hit the towers. Now you say what you think.

Where are they?

 

[PeterPilot]

I have. They died and their bodies were destroyed when their planes hit the towers. Now you say what you think.

Where are they?

In the years just after it happened, several citizen investigators found an interesting phenomenon in play. The surviving family members of those killed in the WTC complex were very happy to talk to anyone, including citizen investigators, about their deceased family members.

The surviving family members of those "passengers" listed on the grossly inaccurate passenger manifests provided by United and
American Airlines were NOT willing to talk to citizen investigators. Those investigators found several examples of passengers who supposedly died on the airplanes not being found on the Social Security Death Index, public information at the time. They would not return phone calls and otherwise did not want to talk about their "deceased" loved one.

 

[PeterPilot]

The joke of the day was when the first "passenger manifests" released by the airlines did not include those passengers who were the titular "hijackers". It was funny watching the airlines try to walk that one back.

 

[defcon4]

I guess she only listens to /professional/ posters (whatever that is) along with "professional" (career) politicians like Joe Biden. Meanwhile, had she read those previous threads when they were current like I did, they would not have been "old."

But then again, who wants to believe anything reported in the two-inch thick 911 Commission report issued 20 years ago, the most comprehensive study of the event ever done including by the designers and experts in the WTC, aviation and military people?

I am sure it was done with the same efficiency as the Warren Commission report.

 

[PeterPilot]

I guess she only listens to /professional/ posters (whatever that is) along with "professional" (career) politicians like Joe Biden. Meanwhile, had she read those previous threads when they were current like I did, they would not have been "old."

But then again, who wants to believe anything reported in the two-inch thick 911 Commission report issued 20 years ago, the most comprehensive study of the event ever done including by the designers and experts in the WTC, aviation and military people?

I'll bet you didn't know that there were dissenting members of the Commission. I'll bet you didn't know that the Report stated 60+ times that "we found no evidence to support..." that many elements of the Official Conspiracy Theory.

 

[hadit]

In the years just after it happened, several citizen investigators found an interesting phenomenon in play. The surviving family members of those killed in the WTC complex were very happy to talk to anyone, including citizen investigators, about their deceased family members.

Okay, thousands of family members and friends. They didn't run into anyone who said, "Bug off, I've talked enough about them, leave me alone"?

The surviving family members of those "passengers" listed on the grossly inaccurate passenger manifests provided by United and
American Airlines were NOT willing to talk to citizen investigators.

Ah, "grossly inaccurate". By whose estimation? Either those people were on the flights or not, either they were real people or just made up. Who says the manifests are "grossly inaccurate", and on what do they base that claim?

Also, "The surviving family members" wouldn't talk to private citizens sticking a microphone in their faces after being interviewed countless times by all manner of officials? That wouldn't surprise me much. How many of the thousands of family members and friends refused to be interviewed for the 143rd time by a complete stranger?

Those investigators found several examples of passengers who supposedly died on the airplanes not being found on the Social Security Death Index, public information at the time.

There are also people in the SS system listed as hundreds of years old who are not marked as being dead. You're going to have to do better than "several examples". There were thousands who died that day.

They would not return phone calls and otherwise did not want to talk about their "deceased" loved one.

So you have no idea, just wild theories. Here's what we have to bleeve if this is to be true.

1. Hundreds, if not thousands, of families and friends who KNOW their loved ones were listed as dying in the crashes but were not even on the planes were simultaneously bought off by guys in dark suit and sunglasses and ordered to say nothing and no one says anything. Have you ANY idea how insanely impossible that is? Not a deathbed confession, nothing. Watergate was broken open when only a handful of people were supposed to keep the secret, and you expect us to believe thousands of people are going to maintain total radio silence? No.

2. Hundreds of individuals who KNOW they are listed as having been on those planes and KNOW they were in fact on those planes before they were diverted to Funk and Wagnell's farm, where they were offloaded, bought off and sent home with orders to say nothing while the planes were repainted and sold to the Guatemalan air force, went home and said nothing. Again, impossible.

3. Instead of that, are we supposed to believe that the planes were diverted to Funk and Wagnell's farm, where they were completely destroyed and all of the passengers killed with no one being the wiser and drones launched to fly into the towers? Question, why do all that when the far simpler and cheaper thing to do is, yes, fly the loaded planes into the towers? The planes' paths were tracked by ATC and none of them went to the farm and landed.

Barbara Olsen was a well-known person who died on one of the planes. If she didn't where is she? Are you trying to claim that she is part of the whole thing too and is living in the Witness Protection Program? This is where conspiracy theorists typically go off the rails. They have to invent wilder things and the conspiracy gets bigger and bigger with every inconvenient question.

 

[Soupnazi630]

In the years just after it happened, several citizen investigators found an interesting phenomenon in play. The surviving family members of those killed in the WTC complex were very happy to talk to anyone, including citizen investigators, about their deceased family members.

The surviving family members of those "passengers" listed on the grossly inaccurate passenger manifests provided by United and
American Airlines were NOT willing to talk to citizen investigators. Those investigators found several examples of passengers who supposedly died on the airplanes not being found on the Social Security Death Index, public information at the time. They would not return phone calls and otherwise did not want to talk about their "deceased" loved one.

WRONG

Not all next of kin from victims of the WTC attacks wanted to talk many valued their privacy.

On the other hand many nextof kin from those who were on the planes were more than happy to immediately talk aboiut the loved ones they lost

the passengers manifest were 100 accurate with no discrepencies

Once again you have NO \evidence and are full of shit

 

[Soupnazi630]

I'll bet you didn't know that there were dissenting members of the Commission. I'll bet you didn't know that the Report stated 60+ times that "we found no evidence to support..." that many elements of the Official Conspiracy Theory.

I'll bet you are a liaer who cannot provide a single piece of evidence for your claim

 

[Dirk the Daring]

In the 1960s when the WTC was designed and built, they never gave any thought to someone deliberately flying a jumbo jet into the WTC. All they considered was the possibility that a small private plane might accidentally hit it on a bad weather day or something.

When those jets hit, their explosion blew off the fire-retardant coating that was supposed to protect the structural steel. The WTC was a novel design: a strong central tower for elevators, plumbing and wiring with a rather flimsy outer shell that could not even support itself.

All that kept the outer shell in place from twisting and collapsing was the interconnecting floors which tied the central column to the outer skin.

I was taking a structures class when 9/11 happened, and we did a case study on the two towers afterwards. Most conspiracy theorists don't take the time to understand WHY and HOW the towers were structurally different then almost every other building built in New York, and why something like an airplane collision was so dangerous to this particular structure. It's pretty easy to dismiss 'theories' almost immediately when the structural design is never considered.

 

[toobfreak]

I'll bet you didn't know that there were dissenting members of the Commission. I'll bet you didn't know that the Report stated 60+ times that "we found no evidence to support..."

Is that really the whole basis of your crazy conspiracy theory? I've read the engineering studies by the people who designed the towers; there is no mystery to 9/11. The jets crashed into them and they collapsed due to a design vulnerability.

 

[toobfreak]

Most conspiracy theorists don't take the time to understand WHY and HOW the towers were structurally different then almost every other building built in New York, and why something like an airplane collision was so dangerous to this particular structure.

That is right. When the WTC went up in the 1960s, building skyscrapers so big posed serious engineering problems, and the solution to that was that the only part of the building which was a truly stand-alone structure was the central core carrying the elevators, plumbing and wiring. The rest of the building, the floors themselves and the outer skin which people saw was all just a house of cards which all got their support and stability tied to that center column.

And what tied the outer skin to the core was the floors which were arranged in spans which merely bridged the gap between the core and the outside to hold it upright and stable so that it didn't buckle and cave in or out. In a way, unlike concrete buildings of the past which were over-engineered and could stand even with a piece of it missing, the WTC essentially relied on every part of it supporting the other parts much like a semi-monocoque design.

This design was used because the developers wished to eliminate structure support columns within the floors so that they could have vast spans with huge office spaces for executive suites and such without any unsightly support columns appearing in the center of these rooms.

Once the fire protection failed, there was nothing to keep these huge floor spans from sagging under their own weight and pulling out from their anchor points; not only did this begin to cause floor failures loading subsequent floors, but it took away key support to the outer skin. Eventually, enough support was lost that the upper section of the building had no choice but to collapse down upon the building below causing cascade failure.

 

[Dirk the Daring]

That is right. When the WTC went up in the 1960s, building skyscrapers so big posed serious engineering problems, and the solution to that was that the only part of the building which was a truly stand-alone structure was the central core carrying the elevators, plumbing and wiring. The rest of the building, the floors themselves and the outer skin which people saw was all just a house of cards which all got their support and stability tied to that center column.

And what tied the outer skin to the core was the floors which were arranged in spans which merely bridged the gap between the core and the outside to hold it upright and stable so that it didn't buckle and cave in or out. In a way, unlike concrete buildings of the past which were over-engineered and could stand even with a piece of it missing, the WTC essentially relied on every part of it supporting the other parts much like a semi-monocoque design.

This design was used because the developers wished to eliminate structure support columns within the floors so that they could have vast spans with huge office spaces for executive suites and such without any unsightly support columns appearing in the center of these rooms.

Once the fire protection failed, there was nothing to keep these huge floor spans from sagging under their own weight and pulling out from their anchor points; not only did this begin to cause floor failures loading subsequent floors, but it took away key support to the outer skin. Eventually, enough support was lost that the upper section of the building had no choice but to collapse down upon the building below causing cascade failure.

Whereas I only dabbled, you sound like an actual engineer. And this analysis is spot on from what I learned about the towers that semester - from the importance of the outer 'skeleton' to the structure to the design aesthetic of the large open floor office space. Kudos and well done.