Zone1 What Jesus really said to the thief on the cross.

[Woodznutz]

You change the meaning using cling instead of touch. She may have just wanted to know if it was really Jesus or the devil deceiving her. Also, to allow her to attempt to hold or cling would be deceiving because he wasn't resurrected yet. To allow it would make Jesus the deceiver.

Cling is a better word for the event. When Jesus spoke her name, she knew it was him. She would have rushed to embrace him. Why he refused her is uncertain.

 

[ding]

Was it, "hey, do you have a smoke?"

 

[The Irish Ram]

If so why do them?

If you do good things, without boasting, for Jesus’ sake, those works will be rewarded at the BEMA seat during your coronation in Heaven. There are 7 different crowns. Your work for Christ's sake will determine which crowns you will have earned. The ones we will lay at Christ's feet.

If you do good things thinking that your "righteousness" will earn you a spot in Heaven, then your work is like filthy rags. It diminishes Christ's work on the cross, and means you think Christ was remiss in our redemption, and He needs our help.
You simply cannot work your way into Heaven. Here is why:

Filthy rags ~ In Hebrew, is referring to used menstrual pads. If a woman bleeds it means there is no fruit in her womb that month.
Filthy rags mean our attempt to secure our own salvation is fruitless...

 

[Woodznutz]

If you do good things, without boasting, for Jesus’ sake, those works will be rewarded at the BEMA seat during your coronation in Heaven. There are 7 different crowns. Your work for Christ's sake will determine which crowns you will have earned. The ones we will lay at Christ's feet.

If you do good things thinking that your "righteousness" will earn you a spot in Heaven, then your work is like filthy rags. It diminishes Christ's work on the cross, and means you think Christ was remiss in our redemption, and He needs our help.
You simply cannot work your way into Heaven. Here is why:

Filthy rags ~ In Hebrew, is referring to used menstrual pads. If a woman bleeds it means there is no fruit in her womb that month.
Filthy rags mean our attempt to secure our own salvation is fruitless...

When that statement was given by Isaiah there was no promise of an afterlife. It meant that the self-righteousness one felt by keeping law was worthless. Today our works of faith are precious in Gods eyes.

 

[ding]

If you do good things thinking that your "righteousness" will earn you a spot in Heaven, then your work is like filthy rags. It diminishes Christ's work on the cross, and means you think Christ was remiss in our redemption, and He needs our help.
You simply cannot work your way into Heaven. Here is why:

Jesus was pretty clear that it's not about rule keeping as much as it's about loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself. Which is what Catholics believe. It's actually Judaism and Islam which teaches it's about rule keeping.

 

[Woodznutz]

Jesus was pretty clear that it's not about rule keeping as much as it's about loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself. Which is what Catholics believe. It's actually Judaism and Islam which teaches it's about rule keeping.

Catholics aren't off the hook either. There are rituals that must be performed in order to be saved.

 

[ding]

Catholics aren't off the hook either. There are rituals that must be performed in order to be saved.

It is the glory of Catholicism to have unjustified criticisms.

 

[Woodznutz]

It is the glory of Catholicism to have unjustified criticisms.

Isn't "penance" actually paying the penalty/punishment for your own sins? If so, why is Christ's sacrifice needed?

This is not an attack, jes' askin'.

 

[The Irish Ram]

When that statement was given by Isaiah there was no promise of an afterlife. It meant that the self-righteousness one felt by keeping law was worthless. Today our works of faith are precious in Gods eyes.

I'm pretty sure that Isaiah knew about the afterlife:

Isaiah 26:19
But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead

Ding is correct. Christ said that if we love God, and our neighbor, we have fulfilled the Law.
And what work you do for the Lord is precious. But, it comes with a caveat. If you brag to everybody at the water cooler about the selfless act you performed then their praise is all you are going to get.

As for your salvation, there isn't one thing Christ needs your help with. He finished it, once, for all. It is a fait accompli.

 

[Woodznutz]

I'm pretty sure that Isaiah knew about the afterlife:

Isaiah 26:19
But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead

Ding is correct. Christ said that if we love God, and our neighbor, we have fulfilled the Law.
And what work you do for the Lord is precious. But, it comes with a caveat. If you brag to everybody at the water cooler about the selfless act you performed then their praise is all you are going to get.

As for your salvation, there isn't one thing Christ needs your help with. He finished it, once, for all. It is a fait accompli.

That's where the whole thing breaks down, loving neighbor as self. People don't love their neighbors or themselves.

 

[The Irish Ram]

That's for sure, Woodz.

 

[Meriweather]

That's where the whole thing breaks down, loving neighbor as self. People don't love their neighbors or themselves.

How are you defining love?

Everyone wants what is best for him/herself. That is also what we should want for our neighbor--what is best for them. I found one great way to practice this is driving. What we want for ourselves is to get where we are going quickly and without what we perceive as obstacles/slowdowns. That is what is best for oneself. That is what we should want for our fellow drivers, to not be in their way, to let them go ahead, to make room for them in our lane, be a peaceful driver.

 

[Meriweather]

Isn't "penance" actually paying the penalty/punishment for your own sins? If so, why is Christ's sacrifice needed?

This is not an attack, jes' askin'.

Penance is making restitution for the wrong one has done to another. For example, say a teen lifts $20 from mom's purse. He regrets it and goes to confession. The priest doesn't say, "Well, Jesus actually payed the penalty and punishment for this sin of yours--go in peace." No. the sin will be forgiven when restitution is made by returning $20 to his mom; or, confessing to his mom he took the $20, but doesn't have the money to return to her, and so he would like to work the amount off.

 

[Cougarbear]

Cling is a better word for the event. When Jesus spoke her name, she knew it was him. She would have rushed to embrace him. Why he refused her is uncertain.

The reason is simple. A righteous spirit cannot deceive. Had Jesus reached out for so she could embrace or touch him, she would have fallen on her face going right through him. He hadn't been resurrected yet.

 

[ding]

Isn't "penance" actually paying the penalty/punishment for your own sins? If so, why is Christ's sacrifice needed?

This is not an attack, jes' askin'.

Rather than a theological reply, let me give a practical reply. Because I believe we should emulate how Christ spoke plainly and simply. Does speaking our sins outloud to another person get rid of the power that sin holds over us? When people confess what they have done to another don't they compare it to a weight being removed from their chest? One of the main reasons for confession is to release the stronghold that sin has over us. What's the first step in a 12 step program? You have to speak your sin out loud to others.

But since you probably want a theological basis, the basis for confession is rooted in acknowledging sins to God, typically through a priest, to receive forgiveness, healing, and reconciliation. It is built on Christ's authority given to apostles to forgive sins (John 20:23) and requires contrition, confession, and the intent to amend. Key synonyms include penance, reconciliation, and shriving. Catholics believe confession is instituted by Christ (John 20:22–23), where priests act as instruments of God's mercy. The Greek term signifies "saying the same thing," where the penitent agrees with God that their actions were wrong. It is modeled on the story of the Prodigal Son returning to the Father for mercy.

 

[ding]

Isn't "penance" actually paying the penalty/punishment for your own sins?

No. It's to release the power sin holds over you. We are only as sick as the secrets we keep.

 

[Woodznutz]

How are you defining love?

Everyone wants what is best for him/herself. That is also what we should want for our neighbor--what is best for them. I found one great way to practice this is driving. What we want for ourselves is to get where we are going quickly and without what we perceive as obstacles/slowdowns. That is what is best for oneself. That is what we should want for our fellow drivers, to not be in their way, to let them go ahead, to make room for them in our lane, be a peaceful driver.

What I wish for others is the same good health that I enjoy so I encourage people to take care of their health.

 

[Woodznutz]

Penance is making restitution for the wrong one has done to another. For example, say a teen lifts $20 from mom's purse. He regrets it and goes to confession. The priest doesn't say, "Well, Jesus actually payed the penalty and punishment for this sin of yours--go in peace." No. the sin will be forgiven when restitution is made by returning $20 to his mom; or, confessing to his mom he took the $20, but doesn't have the money to return to her, and so he would like to work the amount off.

I would hate to have to have to make up for all the sins I've committed in my life. I'm going to trust in the grace of God for that. I try to follow these words, "Go and sin no more."

 

[Meriweather]

I would hate to have to have to make up for all the sins I've committed in my life. I'm going to trust in the grace of God for that. I try to follow these words, "Go and sin no more."

I would love to make up for all the sins I have committed in my life. Some of this beyond my capabilities, so I pray God to send his blessings and healing grace upon those I have sinned against or have been effected by my sins while trying harder to be kind--and yes--to sin no more. God is good and redeemer of all.

 

[Woodznutz]

How are you defining love?

Love is benevolent concern for oneself first, then when fully equipped, for others as well. By this we show our love for God.