What is the purpose of the universe?

[ding]

I see. So when you create something that creation is not the realization of your intention? In other words, do you go about doing things with purpose of do you just randomly do stuff?

Both

Tell what you did randomly today and what you have done with purpose?

So everything has a purpose. I see now. Pretty good. Very deep.

Every star in the sky and every planet, moon meteor and comit all have a purpose? What is it?

Does everything have a purpose? Well... everything exists for a reason and most things serve a function. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. Stars for instance exist because the natural laws which came into existence when space and time were created predestined that stars would exist. Stars serve a function in the evolution of matter too. When a star dies it creates elements other than helium and hydrogen which is how all the elements were created. Planets exist for the same reason, planets exist because laws of nature predestined planets to exist. We know from science that everything is connected one way or another. Everything is the way it is because the laws of nature predestined it to be this way. It isn't an accident that we have galaxies or solar systems or black holes or quasars. The reason all of these things exist is because the laws of nature made them so. Their purpose is the continuing evolution of matter. And since the matter and energy which you are made of came from these stars and planets and meteors, their purpose was to create you.

So getting back to my questions. You are in agreement with me that when you create something it is usually the realization of your intentions, you do it in steps and that the more complex your creation the more steps it took for you to create it. Do you agree that I can take something you created and use it as evidence to try to figure out why you created it?

Have you found anyone to agree with you yet? Is that evidence that you have nothing?

It isn't about agreeing per se. It never was. But yes, I found an honest person to have that discussion with. So far, Bulldog has been the only one.

 

[ding]

So many people insist that words mean other than what they do have rendered discourse practically impossible. 'Fascism' is not left wing. 'Atheism' is not a religion. 'Reality' is subjective.
That said, of course words are only symbols and, ultimately, mean whatever we want. So, if the majority accepts the destruction of language, it will mean whatever whim wills.

Wow, you missed on all three.

 

[sealybobo]

Both

Tell what you did randomly today and what you have done with purpose?

So everything has a purpose. I see now. Pretty good. Very deep.

Every star in the sky and every planet, moon meteor and comit all have a purpose? What is it?

Does everything have a purpose? Well... everything exists for a reason and most things serve a function. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. Stars for instance exist because the natural laws which came into existence when space and time were created predestined that stars would exist. Stars serve a function in the evolution of matter too. When a star dies it creates elements other than helium and hydrogen which is how all the elements were created. Planets exist for the same reason, planets exist because laws of nature predestined planets to exist. We know from science that everything is connected one way or another. Everything is the way it is because the laws of nature predestined it to be this way. It isn't an accident that we have galaxies or solar systems or black holes or quasars. The reason all of these things exist is because the laws of nature made them so. Their purpose is the continuing evolution of matter. And since the matter and energy which you are made of came from these stars and planets and meteors, their purpose was to create you.

So getting back to my questions. You are in agreement with me that when you create something it is usually the realization of your intentions, you do it in steps and that the more complex your creation the more steps it took for you to create it. Do you agree that I can take something you created and use it as evidence to try to figure out why you created it?

Have you found anyone to agree with you yet? Is that evidence that you have nothing?

It isn't about agreeing per se. It never was. But yes, I found an honest person to have that discussion with. So far, Bulldog has been the only one.

Not me?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why do you think the universe has to have a purpose?

 

[ding]

Tell what you did randomly today and what you have done with purpose?

So everything has a purpose. I see now. Pretty good. Very deep.

Every star in the sky and every planet, moon meteor and comit all have a purpose? What is it?

Does everything have a purpose? Well... everything exists for a reason and most things serve a function. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. Stars for instance exist because the natural laws which came into existence when space and time were created predestined that stars would exist. Stars serve a function in the evolution of matter too. When a star dies it creates elements other than helium and hydrogen which is how all the elements were created. Planets exist for the same reason, planets exist because laws of nature predestined planets to exist. We know from science that everything is connected one way or another. Everything is the way it is because the laws of nature predestined it to be this way. It isn't an accident that we have galaxies or solar systems or black holes or quasars. The reason all of these things exist is because the laws of nature made them so. Their purpose is the continuing evolution of matter. And since the matter and energy which you are made of came from these stars and planets and meteors, their purpose was to create you.

So getting back to my questions. You are in agreement with me that when you create something it is usually the realization of your intentions, you do it in steps and that the more complex your creation the more steps it took for you to create it. Do you agree that I can take something you created and use it as evidence to try to figure out why you created it?

Have you found anyone to agree with you yet? Is that evidence that you have nothing?

It isn't about agreeing per se. It never was. But yes, I found an honest person to have that discussion with. So far, Bulldog has been the only one.

Not me?

My bad, you too.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

The Universe is "getting jiggly" with it
.
Woman Sees Screaming Face Of ‘Trump’ Inside Red Pepper in Kitchen Horror ...

“A discussion about Trump and the state of the world was going on while the veg was being sliced up,” Janet Ayers told The Register. “It was as if the pepper was mirroring the conversation.”

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

 

[ding]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Please note I referred to "nebulous amorphous concepts" those would be human constructs of cognition not necessarily to ultimate reality which is different than conceptual reality . I have personally found ultimate reality to be an inscrutable mystery that contains within itself the totality of yin yang and then some .....i am still wondering what the Big Bang expanded into or whether it created space as it moved out explosively ... all I can say with confidence is that the "Universe and life are going on "

 

[ding]

Please note I referred to "nebulous amorphous concepts" those would be human constructs of cognition not necessarily to ultimate reality which is different than conceptual reality . I have personally found ultimate reality to be an inscrutable mystery that contains within itself the totality of yin yang and then some .....i am still wondering what the Big Bang expanded into or whether it created space as it moved out explosively ... all I can say with confidence is that the "Universe and life are going on "

No one knows what is outside the box. The best we can say is a vacuum.

Yes, I understood your statements to mean nebulous amorphous concepts and I understand the inherent bias of human beings in all of our endeavors, science included. I also understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity and how one goes about seeing objective reality instead of subjective reality. Can you tell me how one does that? That way I can be certain we are on the same page.

 

[Czernobog]

It is arrogant to think that you know the purpose of the universe.

Plus, you have no proof. Again.

I have plenty of proof. Just none that a militant atheist like yourself will accept.

Calling non-believers who openly speak out against religion "Militant Atheists" is like calling firefighters "Aggressive Water Dispensers". But, that's okay. That's all the religious have. Whenever they are challenged, they have no answers, so they resort to name calling, and arrogantly insist the problem is you.

Militant atheism is a term applied to atheism which is hostile towards religion. Militant atheists have a desire to propagate the doctrine, and differ from moderate atheists because they hold religion to be harmful.

Sure, like Aggressive Water dispensing is hostile toward fires. Actually all atheists hold religion to be harmful, because it replaces reason with fantasy.

No. They don't. Only militant ones like you. You have elevated your non-belief to a religion. That is why you are behaving like a religious fanatic who attacks a rival religion.

yeah. Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex act. Challenging a belief in fairy tales is not militant; it is rational.

 

[Mudda]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

"Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong". Got any proof or is this just the same old fartsmoke?

 

[Mudda]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

"how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes." Then why does bad shit happen to people who do all the right things?

 

[Czernobog]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

This is nothing but hubris, and presumption. Your first statement is true. Everything that followed is conjecture. There is no evidence whatsoever of creation, or a "Creator". You tried to prove that claim in another thread, and failed miserably, as the only way to "see' your evidence of creation, was to concede from the outset that there was a creator. That's not "evidence";that's that's confirmation bias.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

"Virtue" is a term without definition. What is "virtuous"? A Christian has values. A Muslim has values. A Pagan has values. Are they the same? Would they all agree on the qualities that are "virtuous"? No. They would not. Your little treatise on virtue sounds great for a philosophy term paper, but has no value in application.

Man clearly is not "born" with an innate sense of right, or wrong. Otherwise we would not have sociopaths, and career criminals. Yes, some criminals do what they do to to serve some sense of their own good; many do not. Rapists do not rape out of some sense of good. They do so because they can. They do so because they don't care about your stupid ideas of "right and wrong". Sociopaths also are uninterested in any petty concepts of "good and evil"; they just do what they can because they can.

Now, are these the norm? Certainly not. However, if this sense of "right and wrong" were innate - if it was something one is "born with" - it would be universal, like any other genetic trait. But, it's not. "Right and Wrong" have to be taught; it has to be instilled.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalising that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

Now in this we agree. However, you seem to think that these "moral laws" of which you speak are universal. I would argue that, with the exception of a few general concepts, they are not. And even those general concepts change definition depending on the culture in which one is raised. And discovering those moral laws is an intensely personal process. It is not something that can be proscribed, or legislated. Each person must arrive at their moral code on their own. Otherwise, they are not growing ethically, or morally; rather they are just parroting things that others told them were the "right things" to say.

 

[ding]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

"how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes." Then why does bad shit happen to people who do all the right things?

Is that why you don't believe in God? Because bad things happen to good people? It is called life, Mudda. The reality though is that you are making a fringe argument. You are trying to use the exception to define the rule. As a rule, the consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

 

[ding]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

"Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong". Got any proof or is this just the same old fartsmoke?

Are we born with a moral core? The Baby Lab says 'yes' - CNN.com

As Babies, We Knew Morality

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2010-05-psychologists-babies-wrong-months.html

Are We Born Knowing Right from Wrong?



Are we born knowing right from wrong? - The Washington Post

 

[ding]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

This is nothing but hubris, and presumption. Your first statement is true. Everything that followed is conjecture. There is no evidence whatsoever of creation, or a "Creator". You tried to prove that claim in another thread, and failed miserably, as the only way to "see' your evidence of creation, was to concede from the outset that there was a creator. That's not "evidence";that's that's confirmation bias.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

"Virtue" is a term without definition. What is "virtuous"? A Christian has values. A Muslim has values. A Pagan has values. Are they the same? Would they all agree on the qualities that are "virtuous"? No. They would not. Your little treatise on virtue sounds great for a philosophy term paper, but has no value in application.

Man clearly is not "born" with an innate sense of right, or wrong. Otherwise we would not have sociopaths, and career criminals. Yes, some criminals do what they do to to serve some sense of their own good; many do not. Rapists do not rape out of some sense of good. They do so because they can. They do so because they don't care about your stupid ideas of "right and wrong". Sociopaths also are uninterested in any petty concepts of "good and evil"; they just do what they can because they can.

Now, are these the norm? Certainly not. However, if this sense of "right and wrong" were innate - if it was something one is "born with" - it would be universal, like any other genetic trait. But, it's not. "Right and Wrong" have to be taught; it has to be instilled.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalising that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

Now in this we agree. However, you seem to think that these "moral laws" of which you speak are universal. I would argue that, with the exception of a few general concepts, they are not. And even those general concepts change definition depending on the culture in which one is raised. And discovering those moral laws is an intensely personal process. It is not something that can be proscribed, or legislated. Each person must arrive at their moral code on their own. Otherwise, they are not growing ethically, or morally; rather they are just parroting things that others told them were the "right things" to say.

I don't care if you believe what I wrote. I'm not going to argue with you about it. You clearly are not up to date on the science. See post #226.

 

[Mudda]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

"Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong". Got any proof or is this just the same old fartsmoke?

Are we born with a moral core? The Baby Lab says 'yes' - CNN.com

As Babies, We Knew Morality

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2010-05-psychologists-babies-wrong-months.html

Are We Born Knowing Right from Wrong?



Are we born knowing right from wrong? - The Washington Post

From one of your links: "The currently prevailing theory on human development is that human beings start their lives with a "moral blank state", so it was just fartsmoke after all. (your links are otherwise filled with bullshit experiments that are failing to displace that theory). Please try again.

 

[Mudda]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

"how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes." Then why does bad shit happen to people who do all the right things?

Is that why you don't believe in God? Because bad things happen to good people? It is called life, Mudda. The reality though is that you are making a fringe argument. You are trying to use the exception to define the rule. As a rule, the consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

You certainly like to live in a dreamworld, or fantasyland, if you prefer. There is nothing that supports anything you say. It's a wonder that you don't just implode.

 

[ding]

The Universe and "God" are both nebulous amorphous concepts that serve as a "projection screen" for sentience which then throws upon them the garland of a priori beliefs much like heathens decorate a festivus pole ...

One Traveler through Life even said
“What are the stars but points in the body of God where we insert the healing needles of our terror and longing?

We live in a universe where the laws of nature are such that where given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will arise. Beings that know and create were pre-destined by the laws of nature at the moment space and time were created. The matter/energy which you are made of was created when space and time were created. Since that time it has only changed form. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this. From the point of origin until now, everything in between was controlled by natural processes according to the laws of nature. Throughout this time, matter complexified until it was possible for beings that now and create to arise. There is nothing nebulous or amorphous about this either. Beings that know and create are the finished product of the evolution of matter. We are the end product. The only thing remaining is for our "sentience" to evolve just as matter has evolved during every step of the process. And just like the natural laws controlled that process, they also control this process.

Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. When people behave virtuously, predictable success will NATURALLY follow. When people behave without virtue, predictable failures will NATURALLY occur. This is nature accepting or rejecting us. We have been given a way to know the difference between right and wrong.

Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept, he rationalizes that he did not violate it. Men don't do evil for evil's sake, they do evil for the sake of their own good. So from this we can know that man prefers good over evil.

So getting back to the concept of nature rejecting us, how can we know if we are truly doing good or doing evil and rationalizing that we are doing good? The answer is simple... outcomes. Moral laws are not like physical laws. When you violate a physical law, the consequence is immediate. Not so for moral laws. The consequence of violating a moral law is not usually immediate, but since error cannot stand it will eventually fail. And when it does, if we are honest and paying attention we will come to know the error of our way and repent (i.e. transform). Thus evolving our consciousness (i.e. growing as human beings) and continuing our march towards the next leap in the evolution of matter.

"Man is born with the ability to know right from wrong". Got any proof or is this just the same old fartsmoke?

Are we born with a moral core? The Baby Lab says 'yes' - CNN.com

As Babies, We Knew Morality

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2010-05-psychologists-babies-wrong-months.html

Are We Born Knowing Right from Wrong?



Are we born knowing right from wrong? - The Washington Post

From one of your links: "The currently prevailing theory on human development is that human beings start their lives with a "moral blank state", so it was just fartsmoke after all. (your links are otherwise filled with bullshit experiments that are failing to displace that theory). Please try again.

Wow, you really do try to define the rule through exception if that was your conclusion. Those links even shut old cryborh up, but not you. I'd love to play texas hold em with you since yo never know when to fold a losing hand, lol.