What is more important, freedom or safety?

[Rogue AI]

You are correct. Both political parties have strayed too far to their extremes. The ship of "middle-ground" has sailed and I don't think that we will see it return to homeport anytime soon, if at all.

Hardly. The left has gone off the rails and moved the whole spectrum left. The right these days is moderate at best, certainly nowhere near an extreme.

 

[Votto]

At the end of the day both selections in their purest form, which are the choices you advocated, are not acceptable or realistic. Sometimes for the greater good your freedom needs to be restricted and most of the time being told 24/7 like in Russia, Afghanistan, China, is also not acceptable.

Am I right all the time? No, no one is. No one is as smart as all of us.

That is why we need to return to Federalism and take control back from a very small centralized entity that takes more and more power every day. That was the design of government we were given. That way we can pick and choose the kind of state we want to live in. Maybe if states had the power they once had, half the nation would not want to secede every Presidential election cycle.

But as I hear democrats talk, they just want more and more centralized control with people mocking my rights saying screw your rights and do as Biden says.

 

[Rye Catcher]

A year and a half after Sweden decided not to lock down, its COVID-19 death rate is up to 10 times higher than its neighbors

Sweden may have seen fewer people die of COVID-19 had it implemented tighter lockdown rules or mask mandates.

www.yahoo.com

That has been a question that seems to have plagued mankind since day one. But looking at the history of mankind, the answer seems that most prefer safety over freedom. But it was not long ago that a band of rebels formed a country who preferred freedom.

This article condemns Sweden for choosing freedom over safety during the Covid crisis. It points out that the death rate in Sweden was 10 times the death rate of its neighbors who did lock down during Covid.

The bias of the author of this article is apparent by the following:

When Sweden opted for a no-lockdown strategy in March 2020, scientists were still sorting out how deadly and contagious the virus was. But already, according to email exchanges published by freelance journalist Emanuel Karlsten and the Swedish newspaper Expressen, Tegnell was considering allowing the virus to infect young, healthy people as a means of increasing immunity in the population.

Now listen to the disconnect:

Hanson said she was "absolutely disgusted" by Tegnell's approach because it presumed knowledge that scientists didn't have at the time.
"Is he God, or even above?" she said. "That's what was terrible with the Swedish approach: the supremacy."

Did you here that? Those giving people the best information on the issue and letting people decide for themselves was playing God. How messed up is that?

It is glad to see that the article gave the other side some love though

Farina said one benefit of Sweden's approach, however, may have been less stress, anxiety, or depression among its residents.
The latest World Happiness Report showed that Sweden remained one of the happiest countries in the world in 2020, based on how residents rated their quality of life and reported experiencing positive or negative emotions. But the report also found that prioritizing an open economy wasn't conducive to overall happiness.

Imagine that, choosing freedom instead of safety for the pursuit of happiness. Now where I have I heard that before?

And did the article go into all the deaths that result from anxiety and depression and the rest from countries who did lockdown? Hell no, but I'm sure they would exceed deaths from Covid, you just will never hear of those stats is all.

Just glad to see that there are still people like this left in the world somewhere.

And even if you don't buy into letting people have their freedom, the fact is that now we have scientific evidence into both approaches, at least, concerning Covid related outcomes. I doubt we will ever have any scientific evidence showing the ill effects of lockdowns like heart attacks and alcoholism and drug overdoses and suicides, etc. because it would not be PC to do so.

But at the end of the day, what is more important? Your freedom and a higher chance of death, or being told what to do 24/7 with a little lower chance of death?

Which one are you?

SOPHISTRY, the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

The wearing of a mask does not impact you or my liberty or freedom. Speeding through a stop sign isn't either.

 

[JWBooth]

What is more important, freedom or safety?​

Needed a poll where the voters are visible.

 

[JWBooth]

Freedom!

 

[Bobob]

Am I right all the time? No, no one is. No one is as smart as all of us.

That is why we need to return to Federalism and take control back from a very small centralized entity that takes more and more power every day. That was the design of government we were given. That way we can pick and choose the kind of state we want to live in. Maybe if states had the power they once had, half the nation would not want to secede every election cycle.

But as I hear democrats talk, they just want more and more centralized control with people mocking my rights saying screw your rights and do as Biden says.

I don't know what the hell you are talking about. Trump would be an autocrat, so your freedoms would be restricted. He is a "Republican."

 

[Mac1958]

I think what you are saying is, they can't compete with the collective power that controls them.

The current collective power has just destroyed the border, has just initiated hyperinflating our economy having created the largest debt in human history, and botched a retreat from Afghanistan leaving thousands of Americans behind. That is the collective power you seem to be so proud of and you think is "middle of the road"

I simply feel that they have to much power to do all of that while belittling voices like myself.

To the rest of the world, those people are a circus.

Well, that's nice fiction, but I didn't say that.

 

[JWBooth]

We do not set aside the Constitution on the basis of political fear.

It should be the case but rarely is.

 

[night_son]

A year and a half after Sweden decided not to lock down, its COVID-19 death rate is up to 10 times higher than its neighbors

Sweden may have seen fewer people die of COVID-19 had it implemented tighter lockdown rules or mask mandates.

www.yahoo.com

That has been a question that seems to have plagued mankind since day one. But looking at the history of mankind, the answer seems that most prefer safety over freedom. But it was not long ago that a band of rebels formed a country who preferred freedom.

This article condemns Sweden for choosing freedom over safety during the Covid crisis. It points out that the death rate in Sweden was 10 times the death rate of its neighbors who did lock down during Covid.

The bias of the author of this article is apparent by the following:

When Sweden opted for a no-lockdown strategy in March 2020, scientists were still sorting out how deadly and contagious the virus was. But already, according to email exchanges published by freelance journalist Emanuel Karlsten and the Swedish newspaper Expressen, Tegnell was considering allowing the virus to infect young, healthy people as a means of increasing immunity in the population.

Now listen to the disconnect:

Hanson said she was "absolutely disgusted" by Tegnell's approach because it presumed knowledge that scientists didn't have at the time.
"Is he God, or even above?" she said. "That's what was terrible with the Swedish approach: the supremacy."

Did you here that? Those giving people the best information on the issue and letting people decide for themselves was playing God. How messed up is that?

It is glad to see that the article gave the other side some love though

Farina said one benefit of Sweden's approach, however, may have been less stress, anxiety, or depression among its residents.
The latest World Happiness Report showed that Sweden remained one of the happiest countries in the world in 2020, based on how residents rated their quality of life and reported experiencing positive or negative emotions. But the report also found that prioritizing an open economy wasn't conducive to overall happiness.

Imagine that, choosing freedom instead of safety for the pursuit of happiness. Now where I have I heard that before?

And did the article go into all the deaths that result from anxiety and depression and the rest from countries who did lockdown? Hell no, but I'm sure they would exceed deaths from Covid, you just will never hear of those stats is all.

Just glad to see that there are still people like this left in the world somewhere.

And even if you don't buy into letting people have their freedom, the fact is that now we have scientific evidence into both approaches, at least, concerning Covid related outcomes. I doubt we will ever have any scientific evidence showing the ill effects of lockdowns like heart attacks and alcoholism and drug overdoses and suicides, etc. because it would not be PC to do so.

But at the end of the day, what is more important? Your freedom and a higher chance of death, or being told what to do 24/7 with a little lower chance of death?

Which one are you?

Even enough freedom to hang one's self is preferable to a day to day existence delineated and controlled by even the most minimal tyranny. At least, most Americans used to feel that way. Up to 2007 Disney was still making family safe, patriotic movies—National Treasure, for example. Then something changed, on the long lead up to COVID-19. We sold our freedom and the desire to be rugged individualists coexisting beneath the same flag, same indelible standards.

 

[Rye Catcher]

The Private Sector (mostly) requires social distancing, mask wearing and all public buildings do too. How many more people will become infected do to the stupid and absurd efforts by the fear mongers above and in a large number of threads.

A mask won't kill you, a virus may do so and it isn't comfortable.

Q. When will the Right Wing come to their individual senses?
A. When their loved ones get the bill for the hospital stay, or the cost to bury them.

 

[Votto]

SOPHISTRY, the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

The wearing of a mask does not impact you or my liberty or freedom. Speeding through a stop sign isn't either.

Every law is a restriction of freedom. If not, then why make the law? This is why it is important not to make a law unless you have to do so. Unfortunately, the US makes around 40,000 laws a year. Are they all needed? I don't think so, or is America really that bad?

But there are laws that need to be made because your freedom can infringe on others. But I don't see how not getting a vaccine, for example, hurts you at all. Do you?

 

[Crepitus]

I never get my palms read, sorry

Maybe you should try it.
Shave'em first.

 

[Votto]

The Private Sector (mostly) requires social distancing, mask wearing and all public buildings do too. How many more people will become infected do to the stupid and absurd efforts by the fear mongers above and in a large number of threads.

A mask won't kill you, a virus may do so and it isn't comfortable.

Q. When will the Right Wing come to their individual senses?
A. When their loved ones get the bill for the hospital stay, or the cost to bury them.

Wearing a mask is not all rosy. Here is a list of skin issues

What To Do About Skin Problems Caused By Face Masks

UH dermatologists have these tips for mask-related skin issues, regardless of the mask type.

www.uhhospitals.org

And then there are the psychological issues. I read where a guy could not take his off. It cost him his marriage.

What about those who are Closter phobic?

Then there are those convinced their freedoms are gone. That causes untold psychological harm I would think

And children? Children can't learn to socialist seeing the faces of others and reacting.

These are things you seem ignorant of.

 

[Seawytch]

Why do you think so many have left California and why the current governor is on the verge of being recalled?

Maybe if the President had all those powers there would be no where to run and no way to recall him

Would that be a better system for you?

So many haven't. As I told someone yesterday, get better sources.

Study: There Is No Mass Exodus From California

Despite reports of an exodus from California, there is no evidence of an abnormal increase of residents planning to leave the state, according to a recent study.

sacramento.cbslocal.com

And a majority of Californians approved of Newsoms handling of the pandemic.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article245783760.html

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

A year and a half after Sweden decided not to lock down, its COVID-19 death rate is up to 10 times higher than its neighbors

Sweden may have seen fewer people die of COVID-19 had it implemented tighter lockdown rules or mask mandates.

www.yahoo.com

That has been a question that seems to have plagued mankind since day one. But looking at the history of mankind, the answer seems that most prefer safety over freedom. But it was not long ago that a band of rebels formed a country who preferred freedom.

This article condemns Sweden for choosing freedom over safety during the Covid crisis. It points out that the death rate in Sweden was 10 times the death rate of its neighbors who did lock down during Covid.

The bias of the author of this article is apparent by the following:

When Sweden opted for a no-lockdown strategy in March 2020, scientists were still sorting out how deadly and contagious the virus was. But already, according to email exchanges published by freelance journalist Emanuel Karlsten and the Swedish newspaper Expressen, Tegnell was considering allowing the virus to infect young, healthy people as a means of increasing immunity in the population.

Now listen to the disconnect:

Hanson said she was "absolutely disgusted" by Tegnell's approach because it presumed knowledge that scientists didn't have at the time.
"Is he God, or even above?" she said. "That's what was terrible with the Swedish approach: the supremacy."

Did you here that? Those giving people the best information on the issue and letting people decide for themselves was playing God. How messed up is that?

It is glad to see that the article gave the other side some love though

Farina said one benefit of Sweden's approach, however, may have been less stress, anxiety, or depression among its residents.
The latest World Happiness Report showed that Sweden remained one of the happiest countries in the world in 2020, based on how residents rated their quality of life and reported experiencing positive or negative emotions. But the report also found that prioritizing an open economy wasn't conducive to overall happiness.

Imagine that, choosing freedom instead of safety for the pursuit of happiness. Now where I have I heard that before?

And did the article go into all the deaths that result from anxiety and depression and the rest from countries who did lockdown? Hell no, but I'm sure they would exceed deaths from Covid, you just will never hear of those stats is all.

Just glad to see that there are still people like this left in the world somewhere.

And even if you don't buy into letting people have their freedom, the fact is that now we have scientific evidence into both approaches, at least, concerning Covid related outcomes. I doubt we will ever have any scientific evidence showing the ill effects of lockdowns like heart attacks and alcoholism and drug overdoses and suicides, etc. because it would not be PC to do so.

But at the end of the day, what is more important? Your freedom and a higher chance of death, or being told what to do 24/7 with a little lower chance of death?

Which one are you?

What is interesting about your question with regards to the current pandemic, is the choice is not even between freedom and safety.

The choice is between freedom and a false sense of security.

It should be clear to everyone by now (even though some people are slow to see the facts right in front of their faces) is that

• Masks don't work (1)
• The vaccines don't work (2)
• Lockdowns, shutting down retail establishments and making everyone go to WalMart, preventing people from exercising in gyms, don't work. (3)

Everything the bureaucrats told us in the name of of safety have proven to be wrong or flat out lies. Remember two weeks to flatten the curve?

They knew all along that there is no way to control respiratory viruses which mutate quickly and have animal reservoirs (4). So everything they told us about temporarily giving up our freedoms in exchange for safety has been a false choice.

So the only thing that makes sense is to give everyone the freedom to make their own choices, considering their unique situation, and take the precautions they deem prudent to ensure their own safety.

1) Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing ...
2) More Than Half of Seriously Ill COVID-19 Patients in Israel Are Fully Vaccinated

CDC Director: Vaccines Can't 'Prevent Transmission' with Delta, Get Vaccinated 'to Protect You from Transmission to Others'

On Thursday's broadcast of CNN's "Situation Room," CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky stated that with the Delta variant, coronavirus vaccines cannot | Clips

www.breitbart.com

3) https://i.ibb.co/2vHLvYY/masks03.jpg
4) COVID antibodies found in up to 40% of US deer population, study finds

 

[Rye Catcher]

Wearing a mask is not all rosy. Here is a list of skin issues

What To Do About Skin Problems Caused By Face Masks

UH dermatologists have these tips for mask-related skin issues, regardless of the mask type.

www.uhhospitals.org

And then there are the psychological issues. I read where a guy could not take his off. It cost him his marriage.

What about those who are Closter phobic?

Then there are those convinced their freedoms are gone. That causes untold psychological harm I would think

And children? Children can't learn to socialist seeing the faces of others and reacting.

These are things you seem ignorant of.

Your spin won't turn. BTW, are you a QAnon Kook?

 

[22lcidw]

You gotta find a happy medium.

Now we have to decide where the medium starts and ends. If it starts at pure Socialism and ends at Democratic conservatism...well that is not good.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I believe that it was Benjamin Franklin that said: "Those who would give up their freedom in exchange for safety and security, deserve neither."

"Those who would give up an essential freedom for a little temporary safety will get neither freedom nor safety."

 

[Crepitus]

Now we have to decide where the medium starts and ends. If it starts at pure Socialism and ends at Democratic conservatism...well that is not good.

Do you know what the word "medium" means?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

You only hear about deaths by guns. Why is it you never hear about lives saved by guns? It may even be unknowable. I mean, if you know your neighbor has an AR 15, are you going to make sure you don't mess with him?

Statistics are so agenda oriented.

And I'll give you an example. I read an article from the Left wing Huffington Post from 2008 about how an economic slow down of 1% kills off about 100,000 people when the media was trying to create fear about the coming credit crisis. I read it when Covid hit in 2020 though to see the ill health effects of shutting down the economy, ill effects like depression and drug abuse, heart attacks, etc. But shortly after I saw the article, it disappeared.

How crazy is that?

Also, you secure the border and stop drugs and gangs coming across and imagine how much gun violence would go away entirely.

I feel safer with a heavily armed neighborhood.