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What is more important, freedom or safety?

JustAGuy1

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That has been a question that seems to have plagued mankind since day one. But looking at the history of mankind, the answer seems that most prefer safety over freedom. But it was not long ago that a band of rebels formed a country who preferred freedom.

This article condemns Sweden for choosing freedom over safety during the Covid crisis. It points out that the death rate in Sweden was 10 times the death rate of its neighbors who did lock down during Covid.

The bias of the author of this article is apparent by the following:

When Sweden opted for a no-lockdown strategy in March 2020, scientists were still sorting out how deadly and contagious the virus was. But already, according to email exchanges published by freelance journalist Emanuel Karlsten and the Swedish newspaper Expressen, Tegnell was considering allowing the virus to infect young, healthy people as a means of increasing immunity in the population.

Now listen to the disconnect:

Hanson said she was "absolutely disgusted" by Tegnell's approach because it presumed knowledge that scientists didn't have at the time.
"Is he God, or even above?" she said. "That's what was terrible with the Swedish approach: the supremacy."

Did you here that? Those giving people the best information on the issue and letting people decide for themselves was playing God. How messed up is that?

It is glad to see that the article gave the other side some love though


Farina said one benefit of Sweden's approach, however, may have been less stress, anxiety, or depression among its residents.
The latest World Happiness Report showed that Sweden remained one of the happiest countries in the world in 2020, based on how residents rated their quality of life and reported experiencing positive or negative emotions. But the report also found that prioritizing an open economy wasn't conducive to overall happiness.


Imagine that, choosing freedom instead of safety for the pursuit of happiness. Now where I have I heard that before?

And did the article go into all the deaths that result from anxiety and depression and the rest from countries who did lockdown? Hell no, but I'm sure they would exceed deaths from Covid, you just will never hear of those stats is all.

Just glad to see that there are still people like this left in the world somewhere.

And even if you don't buy into letting people have their freedom, the fact is that now we have scientific evidence into both approaches, at least, concerning Covid related outcomes. I doubt we will ever have any scientific evidence showing the ill effects of lockdowns like heart attacks and alcoholism and drug overdoses and suicides, etc. because it would not be PC to do so.

But at the end of the day, what is more important? Your freedom and a higher chance of death, or being told what to do 24/7 with a little lower chance of death?

Which one are you?

They are both illusory.
 

Concerned American

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That has been a question that seems to have plagued mankind since day one. But looking at the history of mankind, the answer seems that most prefer safety over freedom. But it was not long ago that a band of rebels formed a country who preferred freedom.

This article condemns Sweden for choosing freedom over safety during the Covid crisis. It points out that the death rate in Sweden was 10 times the death rate of its neighbors who did lock down during Covid.

The bias of the author of this article is apparent by the following:

When Sweden opted for a no-lockdown strategy in March 2020, scientists were still sorting out how deadly and contagious the virus was. But already, according to email exchanges published by freelance journalist Emanuel Karlsten and the Swedish newspaper Expressen, Tegnell was considering allowing the virus to infect young, healthy people as a means of increasing immunity in the population.

Now listen to the disconnect:

Hanson said she was "absolutely disgusted" by Tegnell's approach because it presumed knowledge that scientists didn't have at the time.
"Is he God, or even above?" she said. "That's what was terrible with the Swedish approach: the supremacy."

Did you here that? Those giving people the best information on the issue and letting people decide for themselves was playing God. How messed up is that?

It is glad to see that the article gave the other side some love though


Farina said one benefit of Sweden's approach, however, may have been less stress, anxiety, or depression among its residents.
The latest World Happiness Report showed that Sweden remained one of the happiest countries in the world in 2020, based on how residents rated their quality of life and reported experiencing positive or negative emotions. But the report also found that prioritizing an open economy wasn't conducive to overall happiness.


Imagine that, choosing freedom instead of safety for the pursuit of happiness. Now where I have I heard that before?

And did the article go into all the deaths that result from anxiety and depression and the rest from countries who did lockdown? Hell no, but I'm sure they would exceed deaths from Covid, you just will never hear of those stats is all.

Just glad to see that there are still people like this left in the world somewhere.

And even if you don't buy into letting people have their freedom, the fact is that now we have scientific evidence into both approaches, at least, concerning Covid related outcomes. I doubt we will ever have any scientific evidence showing the ill effects of lockdowns like heart attacks and alcoholism and drug overdoses and suicides, etc. because it would not be PC to do so.

But at the end of the day, what is more important? Your freedom and a higher chance of death, or being told what to do 24/7 with a little lower chance of death?

Which one are you?
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin. I have always agreed with this sentiment. Also "Give me Liberty or give me death," Patrick Henry, comes to mind.
 
OP
Votto

Votto

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What is interesting about your question with regards to the current pandemic, is the choice is not even between freedom and safety.

The choice is between freedom and a false sense of security.

It should be clear to everyone by now (even though some people are slow to see the facts right in front of their faces) is that
  • Masks don't work (1)
  • The vaccines don't work (2)
  • Lockdowns, shutting down retail establishments and making everyone go to WalMart, preventing people from exercising in gyms, don't work. (3)
Everything the bureaucrats told us in the name of of safety have proven to be wrong or flat out lies. Remember two weeks to flatten the curve?

They knew all along that there is no way to control respiratory viruses which mutate quickly and have animal reservoirs (4). So everything they told us about temporarily giving up our freedoms in exchange for safety has been a false choice.

So the only thing that makes sense is to give everyone the freedom to make their own choices, considering their unique situation, and take the precautions they deem prudent to ensure their own safety.

birds-in-cage-look-idiot-putting-our-lives-in-danger-never-be-safe-like-us-in-prison.jpg



1) Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing ...
2) More Than Half of Seriously Ill COVID-19 Patients in Israel Are Fully Vaccinated
3) https://i.ibb.co/2vHLvYY/masks03.jpg
4) COVID antibodies found in up to 40% of US deer population, study finds
I disagree. I mean, if I lock you in your basement you will not get Covid. So in that sense Lockdowns "slows" the spread

And not all masks are the same. An N95 mask protects health care workers working with Covid patients. Just a fact. And a surgical mask that does not work nearly as well works better than a cloth mask, and so on. But people are not told these things by our leaders. The whole double masking is Tom Foolery.

As for the vaccine, I think there is enough data out there to suggest that if you get the vaccine and you get Covid, your odds of not getting deathly sick is increased. But those that advocate the vaccine have never made the claim you would be immune from it.
 
OP
Votto

Votto

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Your spin won't turn. BTW, are you a QAnon Kook?
No, and I don't know anyone who is.

Even on these boards.

Do you?

It's like these mystery white supremacists out there that the media convinces us sleeps under our beds at night and on the verge of taking over the government.

I think my odds of finding Big Foot are better.

I thnk QAnon was made up by the democrats to confuse the stupid and ridicule the rest of their opposition.

Very clever actually.
 

AZrailwhale

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"Those who would sacrifice Freedom for a temporary safety, deserve neither freedom nor safety" B. Franklin (quote may be approximate, it's off the top of my head)
 

Concerned American

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No, and I don't know anyone who is.

Even on these boards.

Do you?

It's like these mystery white supremacists out there that the media convinces us sleeps under our beds at night and on the verge of taking over the government.

I think my odds of finding Big Foot are better.

I thnk QAnon was made up by the democrats to confuse the stupid and ridicule the rest of their opposition.

Very clever actually.
I have never seen QAnon mentioned by ANYONE except democrats. Does QAnon actually exist?
 
OP
Votto

Votto

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I have never seen QAnon mentioned by ANYONE except democrats. Does QAnon actually exist?
Maybe ask some Russian Trump loving spies who stole the election for him.

Anyway, it seems the Left can censor any media they want EXCEPT QAnon. Seems kind of strange.
 

Bootney Lee Farnsworth

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Crepitus

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Like, let people CHOOSE if they want to take this vaccine?
If you stupid fucks would stop lying about it there wouldn't be a problem.
 

Rye Catcher

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No, and I don't know anyone who is.

Even on these boards.

Do you?

It's like these mystery white supremacists out there that the media convinces us sleeps under our beds at night and on the verge of taking over the government.

I think my odds of finding Big Foot are better.

I thnk QAnon was made up by the democrats to confuse the stupid and ridicule the rest of their opposition.

Very clever actually.
LOL, your side of the aisle has been using the RED SCARE ever since Obama won the election in 2008.

No one that I know who posts here is a QAnon Kook, but plenty of those on your side of the aisle are kooks. President company not excepted. BTW, the same kooks who use the RED SCARE make the claim that Socialism is the immediate goal of the Democrats, that too is absurd; their claims about Socialism is one more example of trump supporter's ignorance and/or dishonesty.
 

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