What Is American Socialism, Communism, and Marxism: Open Q&A

[Red Front]

You're moving too fast and so I'm lost as to what issue to address. Perhaps we can have a discussion on your views of socialism.

From a Canadian POV, you're supporting too much fascism. The statement you make with the assault rifle as your signature indicates to me that it's going to be difficult to talk about socialism and socially responsible government.

And fwiw, you've skipped over mentioning the endemic racism in America that is at the root of all the problems with government today.

However, when we find an issue to talk about I think we both can learn from each other.

Your comments have been very interesting and you come across as educated on politics and looking for answers for your country!

Thank you. We're against all systemic racism. As far as personal racist sentiments, we don't police people's thoughts or their stupid, racist opinions. American communists, respect people's right to express their opinions, irrespective of how disgusting they might be. Where we draw the line is when racism is institutionalized or becomes part of the system. A systemic racism that undermines a person's ability to function and limits their opportunities. At that governmental, hierarchal level, racism can also threaten a person's life, so we are strongly against all forms of bigotry in the government and wherever it can cause injury. A moron spewing a bunch of racist crap on a street corner or online is ignored unless that person is in a position of power and influence.

We need to be careful about how we identify these social injustices because we can fall into a form of "social justice" fascism ourselves. As a Red Front activist, I concern myself mostly with the economics of social justice, than with the social aspects of it. I believe capitalism is what causes the most pain and suffering today. Bad economics is what creates hunger, the scarcity of resources, global warming..etc.

 

[kaz]

Thank you. We're against all systemic racism. As far as personal racist sentiments, we don't police people's thoughts or their stupid, racist opinions. American communists, respect people's right to express their opinions, irrespective of how disgusting they might be. Where we draw the line is when racism is institutionalized or becomes part of the system. A systemic racism that undermines a person's ability to function and limits their opportunities. At that governmental, hierarchal level, racism can also threaten a person's life, so we are strongly against all forms of bigotry in the government and wherever it can cause injury. A moron spewing a bunch of racist crap on a street corner or online is ignored unless that person is in a position of power and influence.

We need to be careful about how we identify these social injustices because we can fall into a form of "social justice" fascism ourselves. As a Red Front activist, I concern myself mostly with the economics of social justice, than with the social aspects of it. I believe capitalism is what causes the most pain and suffering today. Bad economics is what creates hunger, the scarcity of resources, global warming..etc.

Have you figured out what didn't work in every other Marxist country so you know when you do it right this time you know how to do that? Or you just know you believe in the cause and the ones before didn't really and that's why you'll be the ones to do it right this time?

 

[Red Front]

Right, and the Marxists scrambled your eggs.

btw, McCarthy was right....

McCarthy was confused, but you can believe whatever nonsense toots your horn.

 

[kaz]

I didn't suggest otherwise. China is far from a Jeffersonian democracy. We American socialists come from a different tradition and our heritage and values are different than theirs.

No worries, the Democrats are fixing that

 

[Meister]

I didn't suggest otherwise. China is far from a Jeffersonian democracy. We American socialists come from a different tradition and our heritage and values are different than theirs.

Looks great on paper, huh? The application gets caught up with the greed of the party. Then it sucks

 

[kaz]

McCarthy was confused, but you can believe whatever nonsense toots your horn.

View attachment 812105​

If you want to sell the product more effectively, my advice is starting by figuring out what went wrong every other time Marxism was tried.

My first question is how do we avoid killing a hundred million people this time. Any thoughts?

 

[d0gbreath]

We've had a US Communist party since 1919. They run candidates, but don't get much coverage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Communist Party USA
Founded September 1, 1919
Split from Socialist Party of America
Headquarters 235 W 23rd St, New York, NY 10011, Manhattan, New York
Newspaper People's World
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So they split from the Socialist Party, which was founded in 1901. They were basically just talk back then. American Socialism is spelled F-D-R.
Then toss on JFK. Congress passed all of JFK's pet projects after his death.
BHO wanted everyone to have healthcare insurance coverage. His wife wanted school kids to eat healthy. That sounds more like Communism to me.

Communism is practiced everyday, on the Rez, by real Americans.

 

[kaz]

We've had a US Communist party since 1919. They run candidates, but don't get much coverage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Communist Party USA
Founded September 1, 1919
Split from Socialist Party of America
Headquarters 235 W 23rd St, New York, NY 10011, Manhattan, New York
Newspaper People's World
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So they split from the Socialist Party, which was founded in 1901. They were basically just talk back then. American Socialism is spelled F-D-R.
Then toss on JFK. Congress passed all of JFK's pet projects after his death.
BHO wanted everyone to have healthcare insurance coverage. His wife wanted school kids to eat healthy. That sounds more like Communism to me.

Communism is practiced everyday, on the Rez, by real Americans.

Since like the 1990's the US Communist Party hasn't run a candidate and just endorsed the Democrat. I mean why bother when there's no difference?

 

[Red Front]

Have you figured out what didn't work in every other Marxist country so you know when you do it right this time you know how to do that? Or you just know you believe in the cause and the ones before didn't really and that's why you'll be the ones to do it right this time?

Capitalism so far, hasn't worked without socialism. Every few years due to the boom and bust cycle, a.k.a. "the business cycle", capitalism has to be bailed out with public funds. That's essentially socialism saving capitalism every few years.

​

More, why does socialism have to completely replace capitalism overnight in order for socialism to be a legitimate or viable candidate for eventually replacing capitalism? How many centuries did it take capitalism to replace chattel slavery and feudalism? It took the mercantile class and its republicanism, centuries, to replace its predecessors. The capitalists didn't show up on the scene one day and with a single swoop of the sword, defeat all of the kings and nobles of Europe, replacing slavery and feudalism in one decisive victory. It was a process that took hundreds of years.

According to Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, a mode of production or socioeconomic order, doesn't replace another, until the material conditions are ripe or ready for that new economic system. It took a revolutionary capitalist, industrial movement with all of its new technology to turn the merchants into the powerful industrialists of the 19th century. Modern republicanism the child of capitalism didn't replace the monarchies of Europe, until the industrial revolution was well established. Capitalism in Western Europe, became the successor of chattel slavery and feudalism. Constitutional, parliamentary republicanism, funded by capitalists, replaced the power of the kings and feudal lords,

That process took centuries, not one day or a few months, or years. Marxist socialism was born from the industrial revolution and it will take some time to fully replace capitalism. It's not going to happen overnight. There are no single decisive victories, but rather a string of victories and losses, failures and successes. It's a process of democratizing and socializing production (our economy), with every new technological and social innovation that contributes constructively to that transformation.

In the 21st century, we have advanced automation technology, in the form of autonomous machines, like robots and self-driving vehicles. We also have AI, i.e. Artificial Intelligence, which makes machines intelligent and capable of producing goods and services without much human involvement or assistance. Before the advent of computers, and the aforementioned advanced automation technology, machines had to be animated or operated by human beings. Production followed the rhythm of the human organism, of humanity, rather than the algorithms of advanced computers, robots and artificial intelligence.

The 21st century seems to be the one that will reveal socialism as the successor of capitalism, forcing society to adopt it as its primary mode and system of production. Intelligent, autonomous machines/robots/automative systems, don't rest, eat or need all of the resources that a human worker does. They function 24/7, producing all of the goods and services that we consume.

JOBS Will be Replaced by AI Technology - Tony Robbins How to Change & Adapt the future​

We had a great depression with only 23% unemployment. Imagine what will happen when we have 30%,50% unemployment? Without wage-labor, there's no market or paying consumers. Society is forced by necessity, due to advanced technology to adopt democratic communism. The alternative is techno-feudalism:

ELYSIUM - Official Trailer (HD)

Release Date: 9 August 2013 (United States)In the year 2154, two classes of people exist: the very wealthy, who live on a pristine man-made space station cal...

www.youtube.com

 

[kaz]

Capitalism so far, hasn't worked without socialism. Every few years due to the boom and bust cycle, a.k.a. "the business cycle", capitalism has to be bailed out with public funds. That's essentially socialism saving capitalism every few years.

​

More, why does socialism have to completely replace capitalism overnight in order for socialism to be a legitimate or viable candidate for eventually replacing capitalism? How many centuries did it take capitalism to replace chattel slavery and feudalism? It took the mercantile class and its republicanism, centuries, to replace its predecessors. The capitalists didn't show up on the scene one day and with a single swoop of the sword, defeat all of the kings and nobles of Europe, replacing slavery and feudalism in one decisive victory. It was a process that took hundreds of years.

According to Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, a mode of production or socioeconomic order, doesn't replace another, until the material conditions are ripe or ready for that new economic system. It took a revolutionary capitalist, industrial movement with all of its new technology to turn the merchants and the powerful industrialists of the 19th century. Republicanism the child of capitalism, didn't replace the monarchies of Europe, until the industrial revolution was well established. Capitalism in Western Europe, became the successor of chattel slavery and feudalism. Constitutional, parliamentary republicanism, funded by capitalists, replaced the power of the kings and feudal lords,

That process took centuries, not one day or a few months, or years. Marxist socialism was born from the industrial revolution and it will take some time to fully replace capitalism. It's not going to happen overnight. There are no single decisive victories, but rather a string of victories and losses, failures and successes. It's a process of democratizing and socializing production (our economy), with every new technological and social innovation that contributes constructively to that transformation.

In the 21st century, we have advanced automation technology, in the form of autonomous machines, like robots and self-driving vehicles. We also have AI, i.e. Artificial Intelligence, which makes machines intelligent and capable of producing goods and services without much human involvement or assistance. Before the advent of computers, and the aforementioned advanced automation technology, machines had to be animated, operated by human beings. Production followed the rhythm of the human organism, of humanity, rather than the algorithms of advanced computers, robots and artificial intelligence.

The 21st century seems to be the one that will reveal socialism as the successor of capitalism, forcing society to adopt it as its primary mode and system of production. Intelligent, autonomous machines/robots/automative systems, don't rest, eat or need all of the resources that a human worker does. They function 24/7, producing all of the goods and services that we consume.

JOBS Will be Replaced by AI Technology - Tony Robbins How to Change & Adapt the future


​

I can't address your points when you keep making up your own definition of words, sorry

 

[Oddball]

I can't address your points when you keep making up your own definition of words, sorry

 

[d0gbreath]

Since like the 1990's the US Communist Party hasn't run a candidate and just endorsed the Democrat. I mean why bother when there's no difference?

Would it be fair to say that you live in a community? Do you have a family? All families (not dysfunctional ones) run on the abilities of the some, for the needs of the all.

 

[Oddball]

Here's what socialism really looks like....

 

[Red Front]

I can't address your points when you keep making up your own definition of words, sorry

I don't arbitrarily define my "communist terms" and concepts, they're rather based on dictionaries, well-established scholarship and and by Marx himself.

 

[kaz]

Would it be fair to say that you live in a community? Do you have a family? All families (not dysfunctional ones) run on the abilities of the some, for the needs of the all.

That is just a word game. I was talking to a Jewish friend once who had lived in an Israeli Kibbutz. He made the point you just did except you used family as the example and said he had loved it there. He asked what the difference was between his experience and socialism at a national level.

I thought about it and said:

1) Everyone in your Kibbutz was there by choice, not coercion
2) Everyone in your community knew each other and were personally accountable to everyone in the community. In socialism there are layers and layers of bureaucracy that become corruption

He thought for a moment and then agreed with me. Then we had another round of beers. My answer to him addresses your question

 

[Natural Citizen]

Funny thing about Marx is that he never made an effort to explain to everyone how the State would ''wither away'' after the ''dictatorship of the proletariat'' commenced.



Relevant reading...

Marx's Theory of Stages: The Withering Away of the State Under Socialism | Mises Institute

Ralph Raico looks at Karl Marx's stages of socialism and finds them wanting.

mises.org

 

[kaz]

I don't arbitrarily define my "communist terms" and concepts, they're rather based on dictionaries, well-established scholarship and and by Marx himself.

I don't doubt that you're using the words correctly when they are used as Marxist propaganda, but what you are saying isn't what the words mean in the English language

 

[Red Front]

No worries, the Democrats are fixing that

The political platform of the American Democratic Party has nothing to do with Karl Marx or communism. They're not socialists, much less communists. Some socialists like myself, identify as communism because it's the objective of my socialism. The goal of my socialist activism is to eventually establish the infrastructure that will allow the high-communist economy and society of the future. I'm well aware that I most likely will never see a communist America, but my grandchildren and their children will. I have no doubt about that. I'm now 50 years old, so I do expect to see a more socialist America in the not-too-distant future, but as far as democratic communism, that maybe take another 60, 80, maybe even 120 years.

Advanced automation eventually necessitates a non-profit mode of production or marketless socialism, which leads to democratic high communism.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hello everyone

I found the following threads in the politics section:​

1. 
   
   Let’s Call Them What They Are: Communists
   First response anticipated from the leftist dummies on this board: “Oh, this article is from...
2. R
   Marxist, Communism, Socialism and Capitalism
   This is the question. Marxism: What It Is and Comparison to Communism, Socialism, and Capitalism KEY TAKEAWAYS Marxism is...
3. 
   
   What IS National Socialism
   The terms Nazi and Neo-Nazi get thrown around a lot, usually as a shallow smear against people...
4. 
   
   If Socialist Communism Spreads in the United States
   From the City-Data Forum. (Lifetime banned...so I opened up discussion here.) "If Socialist...

Hence, I decided to open this topic in the politics section, because none of the above threads were banned or deleted.

This thread is dedicated to discussing and understanding the concepts of American-born Socialism, Communism, and Marxism (the American democratic version of socialism/communism/Marxism - Socialism with American characteristics), among other related topics.

The purpose of this thread is to provide a platform for open and informed discussion. It is an opportunity for us to learn from each other, dispel misconceptions, and deepen our understanding of these political and economic topics.

I invite all of you, regardless of your current knowledge or beliefs, to ask questions, share insights, and contribute to the conversation. Whether you're a seasoned scholar, a curious observer, or someone who's just starting to explore these topics, your perspective is valuable and welcome here.

Some potential, opening topics to discuss:

Two types of communism. The pre-agrarian/hunter-gatherer, paleolithic, Primitive Communism of our ancestors:

View attachment 811992
View attachment 811993
​

Marxist "High-Communism"/High-Tech Communism :

" a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.[3][4][5] A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes,[1] and ultimately money[6] and the state.[7][8][9] Communists often seek a voluntary state of self-governance but disagree on the means to this end. This reflects a distinction between a more libertarian approach of communization, revolutionary spontaneity, and workers' self-management, and a more authoritarian vanguardist or communist party-driven approach through the development of a socialist state followed by the withering away of the state.[10] As one of the main ideologies on the political spectrum, communism is placed on the left-wing alongside socialism, and communist parties and movements have been described as radical left or far-left.[11][12][note 1]

Variants of communism have been developed throughout history, including anarchist communism, Marxist schools of thought, and religious communism, among others. Communism encompasses a variety of schools of thought, which broadly include Marxism, Leninism, and libertarian communism, as well as the political ideologies grouped around those. All of these different ideologies generally share the analysis that the current order of society stems from capitalism, its economic system, and mode of production, that in this system there are two major social classes, that the relationship between these two classes is exploitative, and that this situation can only ultimately be resolved through a social revolution.[21][note 2] The two classes are the proletariat, who make up the majority of the population within society and must sell their labor power to survive, and the bourgeoisie, a small minority that derives profit from employing the working class through private ownership of the means of production.[23] According to this analysis, a communist revolution would put the working class in power,[24] and in turn establish common ownership of property, the primary element in the transformation of society towards a communist mode of production.[25][26][27]"

SOURCE: Communism - Wikipedia

View attachment 811996
View attachment 811997

View attachment 811998

View attachment 811999


View attachment 812001

View attachment 812000


View attachment 812002

View attachment 812003



View attachment 812005

View attachment 812007

View attachment 812009








​

Not sure if I disagree, laugh or Fake News it, maybe all 3.

You believe that Amazon tribes are made up of a political Elite and slaves just like every Marxist, Socialist or Communist Utopia? It just goes downhill from there

 

[kaz]

The political platform of the American Democratic Party has nothing to do with Karl Marx or communism. They're not socialists, much less communists. Some socialists like myself, identify as communism because it's the objective of my socialism. The goal of my socialist activism is to eventually establish the infrastructure that will allow the high-communist economy and society of the future. I'm well aware that I most likely will never see a communist America, but my grandchildren and their children will. I have no doubt about that. I'm now 50 years old, so I do expect to see a more socialist America in the not-too-distant future, but as far as democratic communism, that maybe take another 60, 80, maybe even 120 years.

Advanced automation eventually necessitates a non-profit mode of production or marketless socialism, which leads to democratic high communism.

Well, I disagree in your view that Democrats using different words to describe what they want than the words Marxists use makes them different when what you want is exactly the same thing. Actually, it makes them both very much the same since a key part of Marxism is lying to your victims so you can enslave them and become fabulously wealthy