Zone1 What is a person?

[progressive hunter]

No. I'm saying it has to be born from an existing different species, but when it's born it's not apparent that it's a new species. Only later as it matures into adulthood does it become apparent that it is a new species. Furthermore, it must be born across the herd at roughly the same time in numbers great enough that the new species can take. How do you think it occurs?

has that ever been observed??

 

[alang1216]

If the potential for it to exist exists then it will most likely exist eventually. Flying spaghetti monsters aren't likely to exist because there's no potential for them to exist.

How can you not look at the tree of life and see life's increasing complexity building towards intelligence? Man discovered music, math, science etc. They existed as potential even before space and time. Why wouldn't the universe produce beings that know and create to discover them?

The goal of life is to survive and pass on its genes. Intelligence is one way that has proven useful, at least temporarily, but is in no way the goal of life. Life existed for billions of years without intelligence. Intelligence might only be an interesting footnote to life, we can't know but we have not encountered another intelligent species so they may be very, very rare.

As for potential, that is only known looking backwards. What potential lies ahead, we don't know.

 

[alang1216]

Life is a continuous chain. Life proceeds from life. So every new species, every species origin, had to come from a different species through the reproductive process. How do you think new species originated, if not from an existing species that was different from it?

Agreed but that is not how I read your original post.

 

[alang1216]

No. I'm saying it has to be born from an existing different species, but when it's born it's not apparent that it's a new species. Only later as it matures into adulthood does it become apparent that it is a new species. Furthermore, it must be born across the herd at roughly the same time in numbers great enough that the new species can take. How do you think it occurs?

And you lost me again. Individuals mature into adulthood not species.

 

[progressive hunter]

The goal of life is to survive and pass on its genes. Intelligence is one way that has proven useful, at least temporarily, but is in no way the goal of life. Life existed for billions of years without intelligence. Intelligence might only be an interesting footnote to life, we can't know but we have not encountered another intelligent species so they may be very, very rare.

As for potential, that is only known looking backwards. What potential lies ahead, we don't know.

that would make democrats anti humanity,,

they support gays and castrating children,,
thats the opposite of passing on genes,,

 

[alang1216]

that would make democrats anti humanity,,

they support gays and castrating children,,
thats the opposite of passing on genes,,

I'd like to think a person is more than a set of genes. (Like how I looped back to the OP?)

 

[ding]

has that ever been observed??

Yes, sort of. It's why there are no transition fossils in the fossil record (i.e. punctuated equilibrium) for species that had long periods of stasis.

 

[ding]

The goal of life is to survive and pass on its genes.

Is it really a goal in the classic sense? Do you think most life consciously has that thought or is it hardwired into life as an attribute of life. Cause it kind of proves my point.

 

[progressive hunter]

Yes, sort of. It's why there are no transition fossils in the fossil record (i.e. punctuated equilibrium) for species that had long periods of stasis.

sort of??

how do you sort of observe something??

 

[ding]

Intelligence is one way that has proven useful, at least temporarily, but is in no way the goal of life.

When it comes to the tree of life, it has been building towards intelligence. So I don't know how you can argue that nature hasn't been building towards intelligence. Case in point, the central nervous system of every mammal species has gotten larger as it evolved. I could walk you through the tree of life and explain to you how life has been building in complexity towards intelligence.

 

[ding]

sort of??

how do you sort of observe something??

By what was missing in fossil records that experienced long periods of stasis followed by abrupt changes. The obvious explanation is that those species did not evolve through slight successive changes but from a rapid event.

 

[progressive hunter]

By what was missing in fossil records that experienced long periods of stasis followed by abrupt changes. The obvious explanation is that those species did not evolve through slight successive changes but from a rapid event.

thats not observation,,

thats making assumptions,,

the only thing the fossil record can tell us is something died,,

everything after that uses assumptions,,

 

[ding]

Life existed for billions of years without intelligence.

Yes, so what? You don't build a house all at once. It's built in a logical sequence where certain things must occur before other things. For instance intelligence was never going to evolve into beings that know and create in the sea. Intelligence was never going to evolve into beings that know and create from cold blooded animals. But each step was required to get to beings that know and create.

 

[ding]

thats not observation,,

thats making assumptions,,

the only thing the fossil record can tell us is something died,,

everything after that uses assumptions,,

Then don't believe it.

 

[progressive hunter]

Then don't believe it.

I dont believe it,,

you should stop pushing it as facts,,

 

[ding]

Intelligence might only be an interesting footnote to life, we can't know but we have not encountered another intelligent species so they may be very, very rare.

I would expect there would be other intelligent life in the universe. SETI exists because they expect to find other intelligent life. Why? Because they believe the laws of nature are such that given enough time and the right conditions beings that know and create will eventually arise.

 

[ding]

I dont believe it,,

you should stop pushing it as facts,,

It's called punctuated equilibrium. And whether you believe it or not is of little concern to me. My obligation is satisfied when I presented it.

 

[ding]

As for potential, that is only known looking backwards. What potential lies ahead, we don't know.

But you can look to what has happened in the past to make predictions of the future. There have been 5 stages of evolution of space and time. Each stage had to occur in a sequential fashion before the leap to the next stage could occur. The last stage is consciousness. So it would be logical to assume the next leap will be something beyond our current consciousness.

 

[ding]

Agreed but that is not how I read your original post.

The error was yours. I suggest you go back and re-read it.

 

[ding]

And you lost me again. Individuals mature into adulthood not species.

Yes, individuals not only mature into adults from juveniles but the collection of individuals make up the species. When the juvenile is first born it is not obvious that it is a new species. As the juvenile matures the new species is revealed due to it maturing into what it is. For a new species to occur this must occur in enough individuals to make the new species take.