Zone1 What is a person?

[Meriweather]

I think though that sometimes we do something just for the pure enjoyment of it. Again I use the example of a roller coaster. What purpose does that have other than just having fun? But just having harmless fun now and then, fun that teaches nothing, contributes nothing, provides nothing than pure entertainment, is okay now and then too. (P.S. roller coasters are not 'fun' for me and I avoid them like the plague. But some folks so enjoy them so much that example always comes to mind to illustrate something that has no measurable value but is okay to do for the pure pleasure of it.)

I am fine with 'tame' roller coasters, but with you firmly on ones that are meant to scare. However, creating roller coasters (with cardboard and marbles) was one the units I best enjoyed teaching. The students were so creative! The object, of course was to use what they learned in science to keep a marble on their creatively designed roller coaster at a faster and faster time.

 

[Meriweather]

and the religious ones here blaspheme and mock their own stated beliefs -- strange -- looks like the cafeteria style Catholics are not alone

Science of today troubles religious beliefs based on the science of thousands of years ago. Most religious texts if written today would be looked at as the beliefs of the Heaven's Gate cult is.

Catholics never had any trouble with proven science. (Remember, Galileo admitted he had only a theory, which was fine...but then he insisted the Catholic Church rewrite the Bible so the Bible would conform to his theory.) The Church, of course, balked at rewriting the Bible. Seriously, the Church's position is that God is truth--as is science. Theories are in pursuit of truth, and the Church is as interested as any scientist in what truth is.

 

[Dante]

Catholics never had any trouble with proven science. (Remember, Galileo admitted he had only a theory, which was fine...but then he insisted the Catholic Church rewrite the Bible so the Bible would conform to his theory.) The Church, of course, balked at rewriting the Bible. Seriously, the Church's position is that God is truth--as is science. Theories are in pursuit of truth, and the Church is as interested as any scientist in what truth is.

Stop ignoring and misrepresenting.

"and the religious ones here blaspheme and mock their own stated beliefs -- strange -- looks like the cafeteria style Catholics are not alone"

 

[Dante]

and the Church is as interested as any scientist in what truth is.

That is complete and utter bullshit. Easily disproven. Not worth arguing over or addressing. It's out there. The truth. It's out there.

I'll post a few responses and leave it at that.

 

[Dante]

and...

The truth about Galileo and his conflict with the Catholic Church

UCLA professor Henry Kelly examines historical canonical legal procedures to correct the popular myths around the Italian astronomer’s belief in a sun-centered solar system.

newsroom.ucla.edu

one of a few responses and leave it at that.

 

[Dante]

Science? The Church? Did the Mother Church (RCC) consider all human beings to be people? People being equal to each other?



California’s oldest standing buildings are the Missions, which were overseen by an ambitious Spanish Franciscan friar named Junipero Serra. Serra, who arrived in Baja California in the late 1760s, had a singular goal: to convert as many of the seemingly recalcitrant Native Californian people as humanly possible. Considering how many Native people ran away from missionaries, they weren’t so much recalcitrant as terrified. One indigenous family seeking help for their sick infant once brought the baby to Serra, who assumed they wanted it baptized, and then fled when it looked like Serra was about to drown their child.


As Serra slowly made his way up California, building missions as he went, more and more Native Californians converted to Christianity. But once they converted, rather than finding salvation, life often became desperate and unpleasant. Not allowed to leave the missions, they were separated from family members, stripped of their languages, rituals, and cultures, and forced to labor for the church. Disease and hunger were rampant. Missionaries beat, whipped, and treated Native Californians with a condescending, infantilizing attitude.

The Colonizing Catholic Church, Indigenous Americans, and Problems with Forgiveness — The Revealer

The church contributed to the abuse and death of countless Indigenous peoples. Could refusing the church's request for forgiveness prevent future abuse?

therevealer.org

last of a few responses and leave it at that.

Note: see three posts above.

 

[Meriweather]

Stop ignoring and misrepresenting.

Actually, do some in depth research. I did it as a skeptical teenager. It stuck with me.

 

[Meriweather]

I'll post a few responses and leave it at that.

Looking at your sources, I'll leave it at that. Sorry for your trouble. I am a big fan of primary sources and also looking a the culture, etymology, and languages of the time.

 

[alang1216]

thats what I said,,

we are descendants of sponges,,

both me and my cousins share the same ancestor in our grandfather,,

You may be right, I don't know if sponges have changed any in the last 500 million years though. Whales and people share a common ancestor but we are not descended from whales.

Sponges are animals? I ask because I'm not sure if your dealing with animals or life itself.

Yes they are. Corals too.

 

[alang1216]

Not to the extent that humans can. My chinchillas are fascinating little rodents. If I give one a treat, s/he will immediately accept it and run off to eat it in private. Sharing never crosses that little rodent mind. On the other hand, I often wonder if there isn't some semblance of politeness in running off, so as not to brag they have something another doesn't. One day, the male had to go to the vet. It wasn't a pleasant experienced, and when I brought him home, he huddled in a corner of the cage. The female went over to sniff him, then ran off to the other side of the cage. She dragged one of the hay feedbags over to him.

Anyway, I am in no way downplaying animals or the animal kingdom, but humans clearly have something in addition to what other animals have.

You are quite right and that was my point. We differ in degree from all other animals but not in kind.

 

[progressive hunter]

You may be right, I don't know if sponges have changed any in the last 500 million years though. Whales and people share a common ancestor but we are not descended from whales.


Yes they are. Corals too.

walk me through this common ancestor thing,

are you saying a third completely different animal gave birth to two other completely different animals??

or was it just one out of the two that are completely different??

and what did this third animal look like??

 

[alang1216]

walk me through this common ancestor thing,

Whales and humans are placental mammals. Yes, they share a common ancestor. That common ancestor lived around 94 million years ago. However, that date was determined using molecular clocks. It takes DNA samples of different species and “unwinds” mutations until the DNA samples match using known mutation rates.

are you saying a third completely different animal gave birth to two other completely different animals??

or was it just one out of the two that are completely different??

The former

and what did this third animal look like??

The oldest fossil evidence of a true placental mammal is around 66 million years old. It was a small, nocturnal, insect eating and probably burrowing animal that survived the mass extinction.

 

[progressive hunter]

Whales and humans are placental mammals. Yes, they share a common ancestor. That common ancestor lived around 94 million years ago. However, that date was determined using molecular clocks. It takes DNA samples of different species and “unwinds” mutations until the DNA samples match using known mutation rates.


The former


The oldest fossil evidence of a true placental mammal is around 66 million years old. It was a small, nocturnal, insect eating and probably burrowing animal that survived the mass extinction.

are you saying whales gave birth to sponges and then they gave birth to humans??

 

[BreezeWood]

are you saying whales gave birth to sponges and then they gave birth to humans??

too funny ...

are you claiming any physiological being on earth does not have their own unique spiritual content as what constitutes the life created by the heavens.

 

[alang1216]

are you saying whales gave birth to sponges and then they gave birth to humans??

I don't recall you being intellectually impaired so I'm guessing this is not a serious question. Feel free to ask one but please don't waste my time or yours.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Then there is no reason not to commit suicide, or follow lemmings off a cliff.

Basically yes.

But we create things to give ourselves the illusion that there is a reason not to jump off a cliff.

Religion is one.

 

[ding]

Yes. Plus, we are in a position to give to and to serve others. God is glorious. It's part of our own nature to want to share what is good about ourselves with others. God is glory, and I see in him (as made in his image) the desire to share and to give that glory to us.

Sacrifice is quite powerful and beneficial. I make sacrifices every day. It's one of my secrets of success.

 

[ding]

Basically yes.

But we create things to give ourselves the illusion that there is a reason not to jump off a cliff.

Religion is one.

That's a pretty cynical view of existence. Are you telling me that you need a reason to not "jump off a cliff?" Or are you just using hyperbole to say you think existence sucks?

 

[progressive hunter]

I don't recall you being intellectually impaired so I'm guessing this is not a serious question. Feel free to ask one but please don't waste my time or yours.

why is it everytime I ask for that simple explanation it results in insults???

why not just explain how what you say happened??

 

[BreezeWood]

why not just explain how what you say happened??

are you claiming any physiological being on earth does not have their own unique spiritual content as what constitutes the life created by the heavens.

you must be either an atheist or a desert perversion ... all living beings on planet earth are heavenly created equally.