what if--1921 Naval Treaty

[harmonica]

what if Japan and Italy did not sign the treaty??
what did they get out of it ? what would've happened if they didn't sign?
in my understanding, Italy thought she was getting screwed

This building spree led to concern that a new naval arms race, similar to the pre-war Anglo-German competition, was about to begin.
Seeking to prevent this, President Warren G. Harding called the Washington Naval Conference in late 192

Washington Naval Treaty: An Attempt at Peace

Anyone who has seen the auto factories in Detroit and the oil-fields in Texas knows that Japan lacks the power for a naval race with America." He later added,

Washington Naval Treaty - Wikipedia
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000002-0351.pdf
Washington Naval Treaty (1922) Summary & Facts

 

[whitehall]

Woodrow Wilson was brain damaged for at least his last year in office and apparently the media was fully aware that his wife was the de-facto president. Warren Harding didn't give a damn about international treaties and neither did Japan or Italy.

 

[harmonica]

Woodrow Wilson was brain damaged for at least his last year in office and apparently the media was fully aware that his wife was the de-facto president. Warren Harding didn't give a damn about international treaties and neither did Japan or Italy.

IMO, it was like treaties today = worthless/etc

 

[Toronado3800]

what if Japan and Italy did not sign the treaty??
what did they get out of it ? what would've happened if they didn't sign?
in my understanding, Italy thought she was getting screwed

This building spree led to concern that a new naval arms race, similar to the pre-war Anglo-German competition, was about to begin.
Seeking to prevent this, President Warren G. Harding called the Washington Naval Conference in late 192

Washington Naval Treaty: An Attempt at Peace

Anyone who has seen the auto factories in Detroit and the oil-fields in Texas knows that Japan lacks the power for a naval race with America." He later added,

Washington Naval Treaty - Wikipedia
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000002-0351.pdf
Washington Naval Treaty (1922) Summary & Facts

It was a stab at maintaining the status quo by the reigning powers. The rising powers DID "get screwed". FWIW, if the treaty slowed down the building of the navies of the Axis Powers then it was a stroke of genius.

 

[harmonica]

what if Japan and Italy did not sign the treaty??
what did they get out of it ? what would've happened if they didn't sign?
in my understanding, Italy thought she was getting screwed

This building spree led to concern that a new naval arms race, similar to the pre-war Anglo-German competition, was about to begin.
Seeking to prevent this, President Warren G. Harding called the Washington Naval Conference in late 192

Washington Naval Treaty: An Attempt at Peace

Anyone who has seen the auto factories in Detroit and the oil-fields in Texas knows that Japan lacks the power for a naval race with America." He later added,

Washington Naval Treaty - Wikipedia
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000002-0351.pdf
Washington Naval Treaty (1922) Summary & Facts

It was a stab at maintaining the status quo by the reigning powers. The rising powers DID "get screwed". FWIW, if the treaty slowed down the building of the navies of the Axis Powers then it was a stroke of genius.

did the US/etc threaten sanctions/etc on the "Axis'' powers if they didn't sign?
....but there still was war--so the treaty was ''worthless''.....?

 

[Toronado3800]

what if Japan and Italy did not sign the treaty??
what did they get out of it ? what would've happened if they didn't sign?
in my understanding, Italy thought she was getting screwed

This building spree led to concern that a new naval arms race, similar to the pre-war Anglo-German competition, was about to begin.
Seeking to prevent this, President Warren G. Harding called the Washington Naval Conference in late 192

Washington Naval Treaty: An Attempt at Peace

Anyone who has seen the auto factories in Detroit and the oil-fields in Texas knows that Japan lacks the power for a naval race with America." He later added,

Washington Naval Treaty - Wikipedia
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000002-0351.pdf
Washington Naval Treaty (1922) Summary & Facts

It was a stab at maintaining the status quo by the reigning powers. The rising powers DID "get screwed". FWIW, if the treaty slowed down the building of the navies of the Axis Powers then it was a stroke of genius.

did the US/etc threaten sanctions/etc on the "Axis'' powers if they didn't sign?
....but there still was war--so the treaty was ''worthless''.....?

There are degrees of success.

If in the war Japan was only able to sink PT109 I would declare it a total success. Obviously it wasn't that good.

If it slowed down the naval programs of the Axis to any degree more than the Allies, which I THINK it did, then it was worth sending some paper pushers to create.

We can discuss it being a good treaty but lacking in enforcement also.

 

[harmonica]

what if Japan and Italy did not sign the treaty??
what did they get out of it ? what would've happened if they didn't sign?
in my understanding, Italy thought she was getting screwed

This building spree led to concern that a new naval arms race, similar to the pre-war Anglo-German competition, was about to begin.
Seeking to prevent this, President Warren G. Harding called the Washington Naval Conference in late 192

Washington Naval Treaty: An Attempt at Peace

Anyone who has seen the auto factories in Detroit and the oil-fields in Texas knows that Japan lacks the power for a naval race with America." He later added,

Washington Naval Treaty - Wikipedia
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/us-treaties/bevans/m-ust000002-0351.pdf
Washington Naval Treaty (1922) Summary & Facts

It was a stab at maintaining the status quo by the reigning powers. The rising powers DID "get screwed". FWIW, if the treaty slowed down the building of the navies of the Axis Powers then it was a stroke of genius.

did the US/etc threaten sanctions/etc on the "Axis'' powers if they didn't sign?
....but there still was war--so the treaty was ''worthless''.....?

There are degrees of success.

If in the war Japan was only able to sink PT109 I would declare it a total success. Obviously it wasn't that good.

If it slowed down the naval programs of the Axis to any degree more than the Allies, which I THINK it did, then it was worth sending some paper pushers to create.

We can discuss it being a good treaty but lacking in enforcement also.

I agree somewhat
...but Japan certainly did not have the industry--if they built more warships, then less merchant ships/less for airpower/less airplanes/less pilots
...more warships means more oil needed and they didn't have enough as it was
this site gets into oil/industry/etc
The Imperial Japanese Navy Page | Nihon Kaigun