What has an illegal immigrant done to deprive you of something?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Thirteen years after welfare reform, the share of immigrant-headed households (legal and illegal) with a child (under age 18) using at least one welfare program continues to be very high. This is partly due to the large share of immigrants with low levels of education and their resulting low incomes — not their legal status or an unwillingness to work. The major welfare programs examined in this report include cash assistance, food assistance, Medicaid, and public and subsidized housing.

Among the findings:

• In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children.

Welfare Use by Immigrant Households with Children

You and Healthmyths have done it again. You are using the statistics for immigrant HOUSEHOLDS. That is inaccurate, dishonest, and misleading. Groups like FAIR and the Heritage foundation use those misleading statistics to perpetuate the very myth you are expounding. The education of citizen children CANNOT BE COUNTED. That spending is for CITIZENS, it is not for illegal immigrants. The health care of citizen children, especially infants, CANNOT BE COUNTED. That spending is for CITIZENS, it is not for illegal immigrants. From your very link,

A large share of the welfare used by immigrant households with children is received on behalf of their U.S.-born children, who are American citizens

Come on, of course households with children, headed by immigrants, would use welfare services at a higher rate than those headed by a native. These are the low wage workers, remember? Well, except for the doctors from India. Hell, in your study if a family with an immigrant present had a child that got free or reduced lunch, BOOM--they are on welfare. First, well the child is a legal resident CITIZEN. Second--you know how much money you can make and still get reduced lunch? With two kids it is almost fifty grand. The average household income is little more than that.

To sum it up. Your study, and it is often used by others, openly admits that a "large share" of the expenses they are attributing to immigrants is, in fact, spending on the children who are American citizens. And they have constructed the criteria to such an extent than a family making the median income with three children, or just one on the way, would qualify as "dependent" on social services.

I don't decipher between legal or illegal, they are all a problem as far as I'm concerned, and if it were up to me, I would be closing off that border to anybody but perhaps a select few.

If over half of the immigrants are using some sort of welfare, WTF do we need them for? We are not gaining if you look at the entire picture, we are actually losing.

The immigrants, both legal and illegal, are NOT USING WELFARE. They are forbidden, BY LAW, from receiving any benefits outside a very select few in a couple of states. The benefits are being used by THEIR CHILDREN. The very people that will be funding my retirement. I believe an investment in their health care, their education, and even their nutritional well-being is money well spent. In fact, of all the places the government could send a dollar, sending it to this population is going to provide a better return than any other population I can think of, and that includes the wealthy.

You believe in a couple of myths that I am not buying. First, that immigrants take more than they give. Not buying it. When we take out the money spent on citizen children and add the tax money collected, just by Social Security, we come up positive.

Second, that they depress wages. Employers pay what they have to pay to get the job done. No amount of money is going to get native Americans to work in the fields. My oldest spent the summer in the fields. My youngest worked at Five Guys all year. Guess which one made more money? Now, on the other end of the spectrum, the LEGAL temporary workers program--that most certainly depresses wages. When we have open borders that depression at the top end disappears and any leverage employers had at the low end also evaporates.

Third, that sending money abroad is a problem. Truth is, anytime dollars disappear without a decline in production it is a good thing. Fewer dollars chasing the same amount of goods. Yippee

Immigrants are in all labor fields, not just agriculture. My industry is flooded with them because companies that want to pay lower wages opt for immigrants legal and illegal to do the work instead of increasing their offer to attract American workers. Yes, that lowers our pay scale.

Right now, you have foreigners that are driving around in 70,000 lbs vehicles that can't read road signs. They are terrible drivers to boot, and they are driving right next to your family van. Half of them can't even back up a trailer to the dock.

As for welfare children, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Those children will likely grow up the way they were raised like most of our poor Americans do. We already have generational welfare for Americans, so we don't need generational welfare for foreigners.

So there is no advantage of these people being here, and then there is the crime (which costs us a lot of money) to consider:

Illegal immigrants responsible for almost three-fourths of federal drug possession sentences in 2014

Sorry about the truck drivers. I used to be a meat cutter. You have to grow and adapt. And I am not concerned with drug charges, they should be legal too.

Here is the key factor to remember,

Given current immigration trends and birth rates, virtually all (93%) of the growth of the nation’s working-age population between now and 2050 will be accounted for by immigrants and their U.S.-born children, according to a population projection by the Pew Research Center

Second-Generation Americans

Like it not, those immigrants ARE this nation's future. You can embrace it, or you can be ran over by it. If you want to fight it, then you have to have more kids than they do. I am pretty sure I have done more on that front than anyone else posting in this thread.

There are other ways of fighting such as electing people like Trump who promised us actions on the matter. While I can't prove anything, I believe his immigration stance is what put him over the top not only with the other 14 contenders for the Republican nomination, but over Hillary and the Democrats for the presidency as well.

I also believe because of this, other politicians will follow; at least those who really want the job.

 

[OldLady]

Tally so far:
Posters personally affected by illegal immigrant/s: 4
Owebo
Tipsycatlover
Clementine
Rodishi

Posters claiming to be personally affected but ? directly: 4
FlaCalTenn
GrampaMurkedU
Miketx
Marion Morrison

As a teacher I suppose that it will not affect you personally when your retirement funds crash.

May you receive what you put out for others to endure due to your own ignorance.

Where did that come from? From that post?

My apology, retracted. Searching on another page and brain doesn't multitask very good. I should have posted a response to your post that stated it did not affect you. The winners in allowing this illegal immigration for all these years are one in the same trying to justify keeping the scam going to line their own pockets in a pyramid scheme with themselves at the top and it irritates the hell out of me when I think of all of the crap they have gotten away with.

I'm not a good multi-tasker, either. I never said it didn't affect me, though. I said I missed the flan at the Mexican restaurant that went out of business because the owners were smuggling in illegals to work in the area. It is pretty hard, unless you're in a capacity to ask for proof of identity, to know if someone is legal or illegal, though, at least around here. I'm fortunate I've never been the victim of a crime by an illegal, and I see that the vast majority of posters here are in the same boat, apparently.

Did you know Flan is not a Mexican dessert?

No! Is it French?
My International Cookbook said it was Mexican! Damn, I love it, regardless.

 

[OldLady]

It's not that. It's that I've been accused of doing something I did not do. I didn't even want to do it.

Marion did offer a direct answer to the thread question. I thanked him for it. I've asked him to clarify it for me. I explained clearly the nature of clarification I would like to receive. Expand the quote and see for yourself.

Apparently you don't understand how "getting the job" can mean whether or not you can afford to eat steak for the night.

Look, if you'd read my damn questions, you'd know what two things I didn't/don't understand. I expressly asked you for clarification on one of them and I have yet to see it.

I read your questions and gave a real-life example of how illegals hurt Americans economically.


Apparently you choose to ignore that and proceed to act as if I didn't provide you enough information.

Ask me to have my crew log in individually, that was you, right? Silliness personified.


I bid you good day sir! Good day!

I read your questions and gave a real-life example of how illegals hurt Americans economically.

Apparently you choose to ignore that and proceed to act as if I didn't provide you enough information.

Ask me to have my crew log in individually, that was you, right? Silliness personified.

I only have ever in this thread asked about individuals' own experiences. I have not asked anyone to remark upon the impact of illegal immigrants on Americans in any general sense.

You wrote:

The video is fun and all, but I have lost about 8 contracts over a period of 10 years to this guy that has a crew of illegals because he underbids me by a bit each time. He can do that because he pays them $7 an hour. They get the job done, but it's not done right, and it takes food directly off my and my crew's table.

I replied:

TY for your reply.

Just so I'm clear...

• Are you saying the owner of the crew is an illegal immigrant and he is the person who deprived you of something?

It's not clear to me whom you think is the person(s) who deprived you of food.​

It's a figure of speech. One apparently you've never heard.

It's goes like this: If I don't get the job,the people that work with me can't work, therefore there is no money for food.

After reading some of your other posts I realize that you are being an intentionally obtuse asshat that has probably never worked a day in his life. A pox upon you!

The video is fun and all, but I have lost about 8 contracts over a period of 10 years to this guy that has a crew of illegals because he underbids me by a bit each time. He can do that because he pays them $7 an hour. They get the job done, but it's not done right, and it takes food directly off my and my crew's table.

Are you saying the man whom you identify as "this guy that has a crew of illegals" is an illegal immigrant?

Xelor, why must it be the boss who is affecting Marion? Why are the individual men on his crew not eligible for this exercise? You are losing me here.

 

[Marion Morrison]

As a teacher I suppose that it will not affect you personally when your retirement funds crash.

May you receive what you put out for others to endure due to your own ignorance.

Where did that come from? From that post?

My apology, retracted. Searching on another page and brain doesn't multitask very good. I should have posted a response to your post that stated it did not affect you. The winners in allowing this illegal immigration for all these years are one in the same trying to justify keeping the scam going to line their own pockets in a pyramid scheme with themselves at the top and it irritates the hell out of me when I think of all of the crap they have gotten away with.

I'm not a good multi-tasker, either. I never said it didn't affect me, though. I said I missed the flan at the Mexican restaurant that went out of business because the owners were smuggling in illegals to work in the area. It is pretty hard, unless you're in a capacity to ask for proof of identity, to know if someone is legal or illegal, though, at least around here. I'm fortunate I've never been the victim of a crime by an illegal, and I see that the vast majority of posters here are in the same boat, apparently.

Did you know Flan is not a Mexican dessert?

No! Is it French?
My International Cookbook said it was Mexican! Damn, I love it, regardless.

Flan es de España. I am not a fan. I prefer pastelitos de guayaba.


There were illegals home invading and raping women here, until they got caught.

 

[OldLady]

Where did that come from? From that post?

My apology, retracted. Searching on another page and brain doesn't multitask very good. I should have posted a response to your post that stated it did not affect you. The winners in allowing this illegal immigration for all these years are one in the same trying to justify keeping the scam going to line their own pockets in a pyramid scheme with themselves at the top and it irritates the hell out of me when I think of all of the crap they have gotten away with.

I'm not a good multi-tasker, either. I never said it didn't affect me, though. I said I missed the flan at the Mexican restaurant that went out of business because the owners were smuggling in illegals to work in the area. It is pretty hard, unless you're in a capacity to ask for proof of identity, to know if someone is legal or illegal, though, at least around here. I'm fortunate I've never been the victim of a crime by an illegal, and I see that the vast majority of posters here are in the same boat, apparently.

Did you know Flan is not a Mexican dessert?

No! Is it French?
My International Cookbook said it was Mexican! Damn, I love it, regardless.

Flan es de España. I am not a fan. I prefer pastelitos de guayaba.


There were illegals home invading and raping women here, until they got caught.

Too much a baby food consistency? Don't know what that other thing is, more's the pity.
It has to be direct experience between individual and you or family. Don't lie to get on the list either. LOL

 

[Kondor3]

What has an illegal immigrant done to deprive you of something?

1. they have violated the sovereignty of our national borders

2. they have violated the immigration laws of our country

3. they have depressed wages in many of the trades: roofing, plumbing, electricians, construction, landscaping, food service, etc.

4. they have saturated the job market in many of the trades - competing for jobs with our fellow countrymen

5. they place unnecessary burdens on social services, education, medicine, civil service and through linguistic and cultural accommodations at both corporate and taxpayer expense

6. their continued presence and accommodation sets precedent and a bad example that will continue to encourage fresh tidal waves of immigrants to emulate those here

It's our country, not theres.

More of us want them gone, than want them here.

They can get the phukk out of my country, the sooner the better.

Those who want to return must first ask permission.

We reserve the right to let some in, and to keep a majority of applicants out.

Why?

Because America no longer needs immigration at 1850 or 1910 levels.

And because it's out country; and we can do whatever the phukk we want with it.

Next slide, please.

 

[RodISHI]

I'm assuming if people had personal experiences they would have responded, as you did, or not have participated in the thread at all. It's a good thing, I think, that few of us, anyway, have been personally affected by mayhem or violence by illegal immigrants. The less the better, for our sakes, no one else's.

I disagree with you on the accuracy of posters posting their personal experience. I almost passed posting anything of personal knowledge on the matter. Too many assholes on here that sling shit if you give them that egde.

 

[OldLady]

I'm assuming if people had personal experiences they would have responded, as you did, or not have participated in the thread at all. It's a good thing, I think, that few of us, anyway, have been personally affected by mayhem or violence by illegal immigrants. The less the better, for our sakes, no one else's.

I disagree with you on the accuracy of posters posting their personal experience. I almost passed posting anything of personal knowledge on the matter. Too many assholes on here that sling shit if you give them that egde.

I'm always glad to get a word to the wise.
BrokeLoser seems to have bailed on me. So maybe the OP's motive is as transparent as I originally thought. Just maybe, the illegal immigrant problem is being amplified a bit? Not the great mayhem and threat to personal safety all over the country that is being blasted from the rooftops. I don't mean you, RodIshi, you've had direct experience, but for the rest in our bubbles just hearing all the news, maybe the OP just wants us to think about the illegal immigrant situation without a huge dose of hype and hate mixed in.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Wouldn't NEED to happen if the ESL programs had the goal to make kids FLUENT in English in a short time.

I have to wonder whether that goal is even achievable. Look at how many presumably native speakers of English post on here are are not fluent with the language. I don't write that snidely. There are varying degrees of language proficiency, however, what people consider "fluency" (not a term evaluators use when conducting formal evaluations) is as follows:

• Able to take part effortlessly in any conversation, conveying finer shades of meaning precisely and with a good familiarity with idiomatic expressions and colloquialisms.

To illustrate my point, I point you to a post earlier in this thread in which a member construed the title question to this thread as meaning: "How are you affected by illegal immigration?" (post 192)

In post 234 of this thread, you'll see that another member thinks the primary aspect of clarification requested of him has to do with figure of speech.

Indeed, a

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

Path not taken. Who knows what the true cost to society is. No one.

I agree it's the path I didn't pursue. I thus cannot say that I am impacted, which is why I did state I've not deprived of something by an illegal immigrant.

It's also worth noting that I don't know that I've ever encountered an illegal immigrant. That too forces me to say I haven't been deprived of something by an illegal immigrant.

I for a day was an illegal immigrant for part of a day while I waited to get a visa renewal for an Asian country. That was my own fault, but I didn't include myself in considering the title question.

 

[RodISHI]

I'm assuming if people had personal experiences they would have responded, as you did, or not have participated in the thread at all. It's a good thing, I think, that few of us, anyway, have been personally affected by mayhem or violence by illegal immigrants. The less the better, for our sakes, no one else's.

I disagree with you on the accuracy of posters posting their personal experience. I almost passed posting anything of personal knowledge on the matter. Too many assholes on here that sling shit if you give them that egde.

I'm always glad to get a word to the wise.
BrokeLoser seems to have bailed on me. So maybe the OP's motive is as transparent as I originally thought. Just maybe, the illegal immigrant problem is being amplified a bit? Not the great mayhem and threat to personal safety all over the country that is being blasted from the rooftops. I don't mean you, RodIshi, you've had direct experience, but for the rest in our bubbles just hearing all the news, maybe the OP just wants us to think about the illegal immigrant situation without a huge dose of hype and hate mixed in.

My husband and I semi-retired back in 1994. During a period of forty years we have each lived, traveled, bid work and worked for others from California, as far north as North Dakota and as far south as you can get in Florida. We stopped and stay in many of the states in between those mentioned. This illegal immigrant problems and issues are throughout. More extreme in some areas than others but they are still a problem that is throughout this nation. As mining companies, industrialized farming and other multi national conglomerates expanded in South America and the rest of the world the problems just continued to gain momentum and they became worse. The criminal gangs increased and so did the crime world-wide along with all of the other corruption. I don't see it all as hype but I am seeing a load of propaganda being pushed by those who desire to continue with the destruction and ignore the suffering that it is causing other people. Allowing the destruction of the lives of our own people in order to subsidize a few having more control isn't working very well. It is crashing the whole and many cannot see it coming as they buy into these what is being referenced as "libtard" and "neocon" precepts.

I personally have been affected on many levels in all of that. My retirement and ability to sufficiently fulfill my own needs was literally stolen by these thieves playing games with other peoples lives, liberties and freedom in order to push 'their agendas'. That is why I personally took the time to look into it all several years back and see what was being done. I am not alone in that as I now see many out there attempting to educate the people with the truth. They are being attacked with the some of the same sort of crap we were put through for denouncing the liars and cheats.

 

[Lilah]

One of thousands of stories:
Mother Of Son Killed By Illegal to Pelosi: Which One Of Your Children ...
www.realclearpolitics.com/

 

[BrokeLoser]

I'm assuming if people had personal experiences they would have responded, as you did, or not have participated in the thread at all. It's a good thing, I think, that few of us, anyway, have been personally affected by mayhem or violence by illegal immigrants. The less the better, for our sakes, no one else's.

I disagree with you on the accuracy of posters posting their personal experience. I almost passed posting anything of personal knowledge on the matter. Too many assholes on here that sling shit if you give them that egde.

I'm always glad to get a word to the wise.
BrokeLoser seems to have bailed on me. So maybe the OP's motive is as transparent as I originally thought. Just maybe, the illegal immigrant problem is being amplified a bit? Not the great mayhem and threat to personal safety all over the country that is being blasted from the rooftops. I don't mean you, RodIshi, you've had direct experience, but for the rest in our bubbles just hearing all the news, maybe the OP just wants us to think about the illegal immigrant situation without a huge dose of hype and hate mixed in.

BINGO....there you have it and you bit hook line and sinker. And you knew it all along.
The motive was to establish hearsay in that the invasion of illegals and the negativity that comes with it isn't quite the magnitude it's played up to be which is absolute hands down BULLSHIT!
Visit any region where illegals are prevalent and you will find filth, thievery, domestic violence, unlicensed, uninsured drivers, drugs and alcohol, neglected and trashed property, graffiti, unparented children, animal abuse....the list goes on and on.
My primary residence is in Southern California in the mecca for illegals...believe me I know the magnitude. When I'm at my ranch in Montana I don't know anything about illegals nor would anyone else in the region.
Like you the OP wants to establish and believe that illegals blend in and cause no harm and that couldn't be further from the truth. Anywhere they're at in numbers there's problems and filth directly related to them...PERIOD!

 

[RodISHI]

I'm assuming if people had personal experiences they would have responded, as you did, or not have participated in the thread at all. It's a good thing, I think, that few of us, anyway, have been personally affected by mayhem or violence by illegal immigrants. The less the better, for our sakes, no one else's.

I disagree with you on the accuracy of posters posting their personal experience. I almost passed posting anything of personal knowledge on the matter. Too many assholes on here that sling shit if you give them that egde.

I'm always glad to get a word to the wise.
BrokeLoser seems to have bailed on me. So maybe the OP's motive is as transparent as I originally thought. Just maybe, the illegal immigrant problem is being amplified a bit? Not the great mayhem and threat to personal safety all over the country that is being blasted from the rooftops. I don't mean you, RodIshi, you've had direct experience, but for the rest in our bubbles just hearing all the news, maybe the OP just wants us to think about the illegal immigrant situation without a huge dose of hype and hate mixed in.

BINGO....there you have it and you bit hook line and sinker. And you knew it all along.
The motive was to establish hearsay in that the invasion of illegals and the negativity that comes with it isn't quite the magnitude it's played up to be which is absolute hands down BULLSHIT!
Visit any region where illegals are prevalent and you will find filth, thievery, domestic violence, unlicensed, uninsured drivers, drugs and alcohol, neglected and trashed property, graffiti, unparented children, animal abuse....the list goes on and on.
My primary residence is in Southern California in the mecca for illegals...believe me I know the magnitude. When I'm at my ranch in Montana I don't know anything about illegals nor would anyone else in the region.
Like you the OP wants to establish and believe that illegals blend in and cause no harm and that couldn't be further from the truth. Anywhere they're at in numbers there's problems and filth directly related to them...PERIOD!

It should be mandatory that deniers and those pushing any form of wanting legitimizing any of the illegals spend at least a few days and nights down there working, shopping each day and living among them.

 

[ding]

Wouldn't NEED to happen if the ESL programs had the goal to make kids FLUENT in English in a short time.

I have to wonder whether that goal is even achievable. Look at how many presumably native speakers of English post on here are are not fluent with the language. I don't write that snidely. There are varying degrees of language proficiency, however, what people consider "fluency" (not a term evaluators use when conducting formal evaluations) is as follows:

• Able to take part effortlessly in any conversation, conveying finer shades of meaning precisely and with a good familiarity with idiomatic expressions and colloquialisms.

To illustrate my point, I point you to a post earlier in this thread in which a member construed the title question to this thread as meaning: "How are you affected by illegal immigration?" (post 192)

In post 234 of this thread, you'll see that another member thinks the primary aspect of clarification requested of him has to do with figure of speech.

Indeed, a

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

Path not taken. Who knows what the true cost to society is. No one.

I agree it's the path I didn't pursue. I thus cannot say that I am impacted, which is why I did state I've not deprived of something by an illegal immigrant.

It's also worth noting that I don't know that I've ever encountered an illegal immigrant. That too forces me to say I haven't been deprived of something by an illegal immigrant.

I for a day was an illegal immigrant for part of a day while I waited to get a visa renewal for an Asian country. That was my own fault, but I didn't include myself in considering the title question.

I don't mean it is a path you didn't pursue. I mean that you can't know what the cost is of illegal immigration because we will never know what it would have been without it.

 

[BrokeLoser]

I'm assuming if people had personal experiences they would have responded, as you did, or not have participated in the thread at all. It's a good thing, I think, that few of us, anyway, have been personally affected by mayhem or violence by illegal immigrants. The less the better, for our sakes, no one else's.

I disagree with you on the accuracy of posters posting their personal experience. I almost passed posting anything of personal knowledge on the matter. Too many assholes on here that sling shit if you give them that egde.

I'm always glad to get a word to the wise.
BrokeLoser seems to have bailed on me. So maybe the OP's motive is as transparent as I originally thought. Just maybe, the illegal immigrant problem is being amplified a bit? Not the great mayhem and threat to personal safety all over the country that is being blasted from the rooftops. I don't mean you, RodIshi, you've had direct experience, but for the rest in our bubbles just hearing all the news, maybe the OP just wants us to think about the illegal immigrant situation without a huge dose of hype and hate mixed in.

BINGO....there you have it and you bit hook line and sinker. And you knew it all along.
The motive was to establish hearsay in that the invasion of illegals and the negativity that comes with it isn't quite the magnitude it's played up to be which is absolute hands down BULLSHIT!
Visit any region where illegals are prevalent and you will find filth, thievery, domestic violence, unlicensed, uninsured drivers, drugs and alcohol, neglected and trashed property, graffiti, unparented children, animal abuse....the list goes on and on.
My primary residence is in Southern California in the mecca for illegals...believe me I know the magnitude. When I'm at my ranch in Montana I don't know anything about illegals nor would anyone else in the region.
Like you the OP wants to establish and believe that illegals blend in and cause no harm and that couldn't be further from the truth. Anywhere they're at in numbers there's problems and filth directly related to them...PERIOD!

It should be mandatory that deniers and those pushing any form of wanting legitimizing any of the illegals spend at least a few days and nights down there working, shopping each day and living among them.

I find it mind-blowing that people who seem half intelligent can't quite wrap their heads around exactly who and what we're dealing with. A quick trip down to Tijuana Mexico tells the tale. These people live in filth and squalor that is self created simply because they are low iQ third world minded humans. It's an inherit issue there and it is what it is. If we're willing to take these low grade Mexicans in we might as well fly giant airplanes around the world rounding up tribes from jungles and dropping them in the laps of American's as well.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Wouldn't NEED to happen if the ESL programs had the goal to make kids FLUENT in English in a short time.

I have to wonder whether that goal is even achievable. Look at how many presumably native speakers of English post on here are are not fluent with the language. I don't write that snidely. There are varying degrees of language proficiency, however, what people consider "fluency" (not a term evaluators use when conducting formal evaluations) is as follows:

• Able to take part effortlessly in any conversation, conveying finer shades of meaning precisely and with a good familiarity with idiomatic expressions and colloquialisms.

To illustrate my point, I point you to a post earlier in this thread in which a member construed the title question to this thread as meaning: "How are you affected by illegal immigration?" (post 192)

In post 234 of this thread, you'll see that another member thinks the primary aspect of clarification requested of him has to do with figure of speech.

Indeed, a

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

Path not taken. Who knows what the true cost to society is. No one.

I agree it's the path I didn't pursue. I thus cannot say that I am impacted, which is why I did state I've not deprived of something by an illegal immigrant.

It's also worth noting that I don't know that I've ever encountered an illegal immigrant. That too forces me to say I haven't been deprived of something by an illegal immigrant.

I for a day was an illegal immigrant for part of a day while I waited to get a visa renewal for an Asian country. That was my own fault, but I didn't include myself in considering the title question.

I don't mean it is a path you didn't pursue. I mean that you can't know what the cost is of illegal immigration because we will never know what it would have been without it.

****Errantly posted in reply to ding *******
Right. You've now said the same thing twice and I'm in this post for the second time agreeing with you. In my first response to you I didn't use the word "agree" with regard to the "what's not knowable isn't knowable" aspect of your remarks, instead merely amplifying your comment and expounding a bit on the underpinnings of my OP statements.

*************************************************

Revised remarks for ding
I did not in my OP remark upon illegal immigration. I only answered the title question.

I'm sorry. I see now that you were talking about illegal immigration and my OP spoke only to whether I have been deprived of something by an illegal immigrant.

 

[Vandalshandle]

You have your terms confused.

When you do something against the law, you are doing something that is illegal. If you have no legal right to be in this country, you are here illegally.

Being convicted of being here illegally means you are a convict.

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been willing to exploit the brown man?

Sorry, but you don't get to define terms.

il·le·gal
i(l)ˈlēɡəl/
adjective

1. 1.
   contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.

Notice it says nothing about conviction.

Have a nice day.

Hard to believe just how lost some of these people really are. The hair splitting semantics played by Liberal loonies is sometimes exhausting to read through. WOW...the shit these people will come up with!

Hair splitting? Tell ya what. If a prosecuter wants to remove an undocmented person, he would have to take him to court and prove that he was in the country illegally. If, during the trial, he were to refer to the defendant was an "illegal", the defence attopreny would object, and the judge would have the word stricken from the record. The Objection of the defence attorney would be upheld.

Don't like the law, as written, to conform to the Constitution? Well, then welcome to "Trump's World".

I don't want to be associated with "Trump's World," but the court process you describe is part of the reason we have so many illegal immigrants living here for years and "getting away with it." They were apprehended and because of the laws, and because of the overburdened court systems, those people were released with a court date which they never attended. They disappeared into the shadows. Now, is it fair to the people that snuck into the country and have managed to get away with it for years to all of a sudden have an administration come in that wants to send them home? It's not fair they were allowed to get away with it for so long, get their hopes up, they've lived their lives here, raised families here, put down roots, a lot of them. We can blame politicians on both sides of the aisle for not wanting to piss off the immigrant population and the employers that hire them.

How can we manage this without it being such a joke? Can we expedite the process drastically or simplify the proceedings or find a manageable way of detaining the person until trial? We should look into how, realistically, to manage this problem. Not shoot them or violate our constitutional protections or act like assholes, but enforce our immigration laws. Right now we haven't got our arms around it.

as a matter of fact, we have been using a "better way" for years now. Please read the following:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/...s-us-cracks-down-on-border-crossers.html?_r=0

As for requiring the government to give a person a fair trail is concerned, I am not about to support anyone who wants to give the government that much power over us, and who would take that right away from us.

Perhaps it should be instituted everywhere. That article was from 2014, and I know the problem I spoke of still exists. I'm not pushing to eliminate a fair trial; just a fast one.

Operation Streamline is still going on. Court convenes every business day here in AZ, and in 6 other states, as I recall. Those courts are exclusively devoted to deporting illegals, and they simply don't have any more resources to do that, here in Tucson.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Like I said, we don't subsidize illegal and legal immigrants, THEY SUBSIDIZE US.

Think about it. Someone comes here illegally. They use a fake Social Security number. They pay Social Security taxes and will never ever get to collect any benefits. And yet they don't bitch, not one little bit. Contrast that with ignorant redneck yahoos who bitch and moan that they are subsidizing those immigrants when they really aren't, and bitch and moan about how high their taxes are and need to be cut.

Thirteen years after welfare reform, the share of immigrant-headed households (legal and illegal) with a child (under age 18) using at least one welfare program continues to be very high. This is partly due to the large share of immigrants with low levels of education and their resulting low incomes — not their legal status or an unwillingness to work. The major welfare programs examined in this report include cash assistance, food assistance, Medicaid, and public and subsidized housing.

Among the findings:

• In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), 57 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children.

Welfare Use by Immigrant Households with Children

You and Healthmyths have done it again. You are using the statistics for immigrant HOUSEHOLDS. That is inaccurate, dishonest, and misleading. Groups like FAIR and the Heritage foundation use those misleading statistics to perpetuate the very myth you are expounding. The education of citizen children CANNOT BE COUNTED. That spending is for CITIZENS, it is not for illegal immigrants. The health care of citizen children, especially infants, CANNOT BE COUNTED. That spending is for CITIZENS, it is not for illegal immigrants. From your very link,

A large share of the welfare used by immigrant households with children is received on behalf of their U.S.-born children, who are American citizens

Come on, of course households with children, headed by immigrants, would use welfare services at a higher rate than those headed by a native. These are the low wage workers, remember? Well, except for the doctors from India. Hell, in your study if a family with an immigrant present had a child that got free or reduced lunch, BOOM--they are on welfare. First, well the child is a legal resident CITIZEN. Second--you know how much money you can make and still get reduced lunch? With two kids it is almost fifty grand. The average household income is little more than that.

To sum it up. Your study, and it is often used by others, openly admits that a "large share" of the expenses they are attributing to immigrants is, in fact, spending on the children who are American citizens. And they have constructed the criteria to such an extent than a family making the median income with three children, or just one on the way, would qualify as "dependent" on social services.

I don't decipher between legal or illegal, they are all a problem as far as I'm concerned, and if it were up to me, I would be closing off that border to anybody but perhaps a select few.

If over half of the immigrants are using some sort of welfare, WTF do we need them for? We are not gaining if you look at the entire picture, we are actually losing.

The immigrants, both legal and illegal, are NOT USING WELFARE. They are forbidden, BY LAW, from receiving any benefits outside a very select few in a couple of states. The benefits are being used by THEIR CHILDREN. The very people that will be funding my retirement. I believe an investment in their health care, their education, and even their nutritional well-being is money well spent. In fact, of all the places the government could send a dollar, sending it to this population is going to provide a better return than any other population I can think of, and that includes the wealthy.

You believe in a couple of myths that I am not buying. First, that immigrants take more than they give. Not buying it. When we take out the money spent on citizen children and add the tax money collected, just by Social Security, we come up positive.

Second, that they depress wages. Employers pay what they have to pay to get the job done. No amount of money is going to get native Americans to work in the fields. My oldest spent the summer in the fields. My youngest worked at Five Guys all year. Guess which one made more money? Now, on the other end of the spectrum, the LEGAL temporary workers program--that most certainly depresses wages. When we have open borders that depression at the top end disappears and any leverage employers had at the low end also evaporates.

Third, that sending money abroad is a problem. Truth is, anytime dollars disappear without a decline in production it is a good thing. Fewer dollars chasing the same amount of goods. Yippee

Immigrants are in all labor fields, not just agriculture. My industry is flooded with them because companies that want to pay lower wages opt for immigrants legal and illegal to do the work instead of increasing their offer to attract American workers. Yes, that lowers our pay scale.

Right now, you have foreigners that are driving around in 70,000 lbs vehicles that can't read road signs. They are terrible drivers to boot, and they are driving right next to your family van. Half of them can't even back up a trailer to the dock.

As for welfare children, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Those children will likely grow up the way they were raised like most of our poor Americans do. We already have generational welfare for Americans, so we don't need generational welfare for foreigners.

So there is no advantage of these people being here, and then there is the crime (which costs us a lot of money) to consider:

Illegal immigrants responsible for almost three-fourths of federal drug possession sentences in 2014

I learn something every day. Foreigners don't know how to drive a truck, or back up to loading docks! It's a good thing that they can drive cars, since about 98% of cabs are driven by foreigners! I guess that there is something genetic involved here that makes it hard for them to drive a truck...sort of like women who can't throw a baseball overhand....

 

[RodISHI]

I'm assuming if people had personal experiences they would have responded, as you did, or not have participated in the thread at all. It's a good thing, I think, that few of us, anyway, have been personally affected by mayhem or violence by illegal immigrants. The less the better, for our sakes, no one else's.

I disagree with you on the accuracy of posters posting their personal experience. I almost passed posting anything of personal knowledge on the matter. Too many assholes on here that sling shit if you give them that egde.

I'm always glad to get a word to the wise.
BrokeLoser seems to have bailed on me. So maybe the OP's motive is as transparent as I originally thought. Just maybe, the illegal immigrant problem is being amplified a bit? Not the great mayhem and threat to personal safety all over the country that is being blasted from the rooftops. I don't mean you, RodIshi, you've had direct experience, but for the rest in our bubbles just hearing all the news, maybe the OP just wants us to think about the illegal immigrant situation without a huge dose of hype and hate mixed in.

BINGO....there you have it and you bit hook line and sinker. And you knew it all along.
The motive was to establish hearsay in that the invasion of illegals and the negativity that comes with it isn't quite the magnitude it's played up to be which is absolute hands down BULLSHIT!
Visit any region where illegals are prevalent and you will find filth, thievery, domestic violence, unlicensed, uninsured drivers, drugs and alcohol, neglected and trashed property, graffiti, unparented children, animal abuse....the list goes on and on.
My primary residence is in Southern California in the mecca for illegals...believe me I know the magnitude. When I'm at my ranch in Montana I don't know anything about illegals nor would anyone else in the region.
Like you the OP wants to establish and believe that illegals blend in and cause no harm and that couldn't be further from the truth. Anywhere they're at in numbers there's problems and filth directly related to them...PERIOD!

It should be mandatory that deniers and those pushing any form of wanting legitimizing any of the illegals spend at least a few days and nights down there working, shopping each day and living among them.

I find it mind-blowing that people who seem half intelligent can't quite wrap their heads around exactly who and what we're dealing with. A quick trip down to Tijuana Mexico tells the tale. These people live in filth and squalor that is self created simply because they are low iQ third world minded humans. It's an inherit issue there and it is what it is. If we're willing to take these low grade Mexicans in we might as well fly giant airplanes around the world rounding up tribes from jungles and dropping them in the laps of American's as well.

It has been over forty years since I have been in TJ. It was full of creepy deviant peeps back then (some I know are born into it and its not their fault but bringing them in won't do anymore than degrade what's already here). You'd most likely get better quality people from the jungle tribes. Bleeding hearts need to take their brand of charity to those in need and quit pushing them onto people already somewhat civilized.

 

[BrokeLoser]

I'm assuming if people had personal experiences they would have responded, as you did, or not have participated in the thread at all. It's a good thing, I think, that few of us, anyway, have been personally affected by mayhem or violence by illegal immigrants. The less the better, for our sakes, no one else's.

I disagree with you on the accuracy of posters posting their personal experience. I almost passed posting anything of personal knowledge on the matter. Too many assholes on here that sling shit if you give them that egde.

I'm always glad to get a word to the wise.
BrokeLoser seems to have bailed on me. So maybe the OP's motive is as transparent as I originally thought. Just maybe, the illegal immigrant problem is being amplified a bit? Not the great mayhem and threat to personal safety all over the country that is being blasted from the rooftops. I don't mean you, RodIshi, you've had direct experience, but for the rest in our bubbles just hearing all the news, maybe the OP just wants us to think about the illegal immigrant situation without a huge dose of hype and hate mixed in.

This is what we're getting:

For some crazy reason this is what some of you want to believe we're getting: