What do you think of eye for an eye justice? (Saudi style)

[Middleman]

that story doesn't justify state sanctioned torture.

So, you equivocate a spinal cord injury and paralysis with torture?

I equate purposely causing a spinal cord injury or paralysis to torture, yes.

Yet, you suggest capital punishment as a just sentence?

 

[MikeK]

In concept I believe in it. I think the punishment should fit the crime.

Punishments administered by our criminal justice system are in most instances completely out of proportion with the relative offenses because the system belongs to and operates primarily to protect and serve the ruling class, not the public body. If an ordinary citizen is harmed by someone the existing system will make a routine effort to apprehend the offender and impose some bureaucratically prescribed punishment. But if a politically important or wealthy citizen is harmed the full force of the system is brought to bear, as in the representative example of the difference in response to a convenience store stickup and a bank robbery.

While the police will respond to complaints by ordinary citizens their primary purpose in society is to stand between the upper and lower classes. Their secondary purpose is to maintain some semblance of order within the population and to refer to it as "protecting the public."

I feel our sentences are too lenient and our prison systems are a tremendous burden and cost serving only to coddle criminals and temporarily take them off the streets.

This is true in some cases but not in all and I refer specifically to the punishment for drug offenses, which is so extremely out of proportion to the reality of the situation as to be regarded as categorically insane. For example, one can commit forcible rape, be sentenced to five years in prison and be released in as little as 18 months. But conviction for possession of one pound of personal use Marijuana can bring a ten year sentence in federal prison -- which is not subject to parole or reduction. And there are many who are serving such sentences today.

While I don't believe if you take out someones eye in a fight you should lose yours. I do feel the punishment should be extensive but putting back to the community. A long sentence of community service. Not a week or 50 hours. Long term, a few thousand hours.

While all situations are not the same I believe that certain circumstances do call for equal retribution however seemingly cruel -- if it is demanded by the victim. For example, in a case of assault and robbery, I think it appropriate punishment to handcuff the robber and allow the victim to work him over before sending him off to prison. While I believe existence of such a system would give criminals pause in the conduct of their crimes, exacting punishment under such an eye-for-an-eye system should require irrefutable evidence of guilt.

I do feel prisons should offer work programs. Prisoners should work to generate some type of income to help offset the cost of their incarceration. Not a chain gang per se. But roadwork or field work should be options to less hardcore criminals.

I believe in imposing chain-gang labor for able-bodied persons convicted of certain offenses, such as car theft. Hard labor is a deterrent to many types of petty crimes.

 

[ConHog]

So, you equivocate a spinal cord injury and paralysis with torture?

I equate purposely causing a spinal cord injury or paralysis to torture, yes.

Yet, you suggest capital punishment as a just sentence?

Sparingly, yes

 

[ConHog]

In concept I believe in it. I think the punishment should fit the crime.

Punishments administered by our criminal justice system are in most instances completely out of proportion with the relative offenses because the system belongs to and operates primarily to protect and serve the ruling class, not the public body. If an ordinary citizen is harmed by someone the existing system will make a routine effort to apprehend the offender and impose some bureaucratically prescribed punishment. But if a politically important or wealthy citizen is harmed the full force of the system is brought to bear, as in the representative example of the difference in response to a convenience store stickup and a bank robbery.

While the police will respond to complaints by ordinary citizens their primary purpose in society is to stand between the upper and lower classes. Their secondary purpose is to maintain some semblance of order within the population and to refer to it as "protecting the public."

I feel our sentences are too lenient and our prison systems are a tremendous burden and cost serving only to coddle criminals and temporarily take them off the streets.

This is true in some cases but not in all and I refer specifically to the punishment for drug offenses, which is so extremely out of proportion to the reality of the situation as to be regarded as categorically insane. For example, one can commit forcible rape, be sentenced to five years in prison and be released in as little as 18 months. But conviction for possession of one pound of personal use Marijuana can bring a ten year sentence in federal prison -- which is not subject to parole or reduction. And there are many who are serving such sentences today.

While I don't believe if you take out someones eye in a fight you should lose yours. I do feel the punishment should be extensive but putting back to the community. A long sentence of community service. Not a week or 50 hours. Long term, a few thousand hours.

While all situations are not the same I believe that certain circumstances do call for equal retribution however seemingly cruel -- if it is demanded by the victim. For example, in a case of assault and robbery, I think it appropriate punishment to handcuff the robber and allow the victim to work him over before sending him off to prison. While I believe existence of such a system would give criminals pause in the conduct of their crimes, exacting punishment under such an eye-for-an-eye system should require irrefutable evidence of guilt.

I do feel prisons should offer work programs. Prisoners should work to generate some type of income to help offset the cost of their incarceration. Not a chain gang per se. But roadwork or field work should be options to less hardcore criminals.

I believe in imposing chain-gang labor for able-bodied persons convicted of certain offenses, such as car theft. Hard labor is a deterrent to many types of petty crimes.

your claims about the drug sentencing is laughable. No one gets a 10 year sentence for MJ possession first offense. AND one pound is not personal use anyway

 

[MikeK]

[...]your claims about the drug sentencing is laughable. No one gets a 10 year sentence for MJ possession first offense.

While it might not be common it is not only possible but in some examples the sentences for marijuana possession are even worse:

"Smith County (East Texas) judges and juries have long had a reputation of meting out severe, some might say ridiculous, punishment for drug convictions. And Henry Wooten's case is no exception: the 54-year-old Tyler man was sentenced Thursday to 35 years in prison for possessing slightly more than four ounces of pot. Wooten actually got off easy -- the prosecutor asked the jury to give him 99 years. (We just hope TDCJ can free up room for this menace to society; maybe the state can release a child molester or serial arsonist to find a cell for Wooten.)
How Not To Get 35 Years For Pot Possession - Houston News - Hair Balls

AND one pound is not personal use anyway

Not according to you and the law it isn't, which is exactly my point. The marijuana laws in many places, along with the assholes who enforce them, consider any amount greater than a few ounces to be evidence of "trafficking," which carries relatively severe penalties.

But during the 1960s and 70s, when marijuana was decriminalized in New York City, I often purchased it by the pound (It wasn't nearly as expensive then as it is today) because rather than smoke it I prefer to bake with it, which calls for reducing rather large amounts to derive the necessary THC oil (pot butter). I knew several others who did the same and in every case the marijuana we possessed was for personal use.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey Con Hog, might wanna read up on the original laws that criminalized cannabis.

Why? Because the first sentences imposed were WAAAAYYYYYY out of line with other sentencing standards.