What do liberals want the US to be?

[Steinlight]

You admit they are primarily hispanic race based and wonder why Americans don't join them? Seriously? Why would any non-hispanic native born worker support a union that wants to bring in more immigrants just because they are hispanic?

Same with the AFL-CIO, both support amnesty. The AFL was originally a pro-American organization that opposed immigration to protect American jobs. Now they have sold out.
American Federation of Labor - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

You mean unions support a path to citizenship? Shocking you Birchers hate it


Nov 20, 2014 - Breaking: Americans support a path to citizenship. About six in 10 support a new pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants

Not they don't. Half of Americans oppose Obama's executive Amnesty and citizenship to illegals.
Pew Poll Half of Americans Oppose Obama Exec Amnesty

However, none of this changes the fact that unons should support protecting their workers wages, regardless of political winds, and protect their interests.

Good for you Bubba, you don't take my posit, but instead make up your own and argue from there. Typical from you

Americans strongly support a path to citizenship.


About six in 10 support a new pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants, according to a new poll from NBC News and Wall Street Journal. And that number jumps to a whopping 74 percent if you qualify that the undocumented immigrants must take steps like paying back taxes.

The very same poll, though, also asked people whether they support legal status -- shy of citizenship -- for illegal immigrants. Support for this, somewhat amazingly, is just 39 percent, with 48 percent opposed.



In other words, huge majorities support a path to citizenship. But on a path to legal status, it's reversed.

Americans strongly support a path to citizenship. That means less for Obama than you think. - The Washington Post

Amnesty is the path to citizenship. What both our polls shows is that it depends how the word the question. When they say a path to citizenship, as opposed to amnesty, since this is broad and can mean any number of things, it receives more support. When the poll says amnesty, Americans oppose it.

And this still doesn't address the point that unions shouldn't be based on polls, but on protecting their workers wages, which are threatened by immigration through increase labor supply. Simple economics.

Good you agree, my original posit was correct, and you changing it and arguing from that posit, was your normal right wing crap...

I don't know where you said Americans oppose amnesty. But yes, the polls do show this. Glad we agree. But that wouldn't matter as it is a matter of fact

 

[Steinlight]

You didn't answer the question.

Sure I did. I can't help it if you are ignorant

No you didn't. You said Clinton was, "the best conservative prez". This means nothing. Do you support Clinton signing NAFTA or not? Stop being a coward and answer you mental midget.

I'm sorry you are a dense Bircher, but yes, I think BJ Bill was the best conservative Prez since Ike, as a liberal, I oppose conservatives,I hate bigots like you, and despise these libertarian ass wipes who, like you, believe in myth's and fairy tales!

This still doesn't answer the question on whether you oppose Clinton signing NAFTA. You just said you oppose conservatives, view Clinton as a conservative, but view him as the best of the Conservatives. That is absurd state as Clinton is not conservative in any sense, certainly not with NAFTA, but you are avoiding the question because you won't condemn Clinton. So do you oppose Clinton on signing NAFTA?

Libertarianism is born of Classical Liberalism, not Burkean Conservatism. As is free trade. Conservatives have always opposed free trade, so stop falsely pegging this to us. Even as you admitted, Federalists, the heirs to conservatism in the US, instituted the American System, with tariffs.

Sure Bubba, You are to dense to understand since Clinton signed NAFTA, I opposed NAFTA, since that, I must LOVE Clinton, the best conservative Prez since Ike. You are nothing but a bigoted, right winger. Call yourself whatever you want. Believe in fairy tales, I love the spaghetti monster in the sky myself. You wing nutters who want to hold onto 'tradition and custom', lets get a few slaves for you and make sure you strike your wife to make sure she puts you on the pedestal right?

You love Clinton? That's gay.

 

[rightwinger]

True, but there is another problem with the reporting of Clinton "Surpluses" that I'm alluding to.

Another report on the Clinton surplus

I hope you'll join me in standing firmly on the side of the people. You see, the growing surplus exists because taxes are too high, and government is charging more than it needs. The people of America have been overcharged, and, on their behalf, I'm here asking for a refund.
George Bush Feb 27 2001 justifying his requests for tax cuts because of the existing surplus

Why would I give a shit what W said?

Surplus seemed to exist when it was used to justify a tax cut wasn't it?

Like Kaz said.....who cares what was used to justify it ?

GWB was an idiot....like you.

Well GW has a good heart. And he's a long way from being an idiot. He is not a perfect man, thus he was not a perfect President. The simple fact is that the powers that be, whoever that represents, want the US Bankrupted.

And that is done... the US is stone cold bankrupt, meaning that it now owes in debt, more than it can ever hope to sustain.

Do you have any concept of what bankrupt means?

We are not even close

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Another report on the Clinton surplus

I hope you'll join me in standing firmly on the side of the people. You see, the growing surplus exists because taxes are too high, and government is charging more than it needs. The people of America have been overcharged, and, on their behalf, I'm here asking for a refund.
George Bush Feb 27 2001 justifying his requests for tax cuts because of the existing surplus

Why would I give a shit what W said?

Surplus seemed to exist when it was used to justify a tax cut wasn't it?

Like Kaz said.....who cares what was used to justify it ?

GWB was an idiot....like you.

Well GW has a good heart. And he's a long way from being an idiot. He is not a perfect man, thus he was not a perfect President. The simple fact is that the powers that be, whoever that represents, want the US Bankrupted.

And that is done... the US is stone cold bankrupt, meaning that it now owes in debt, more than it can ever hope to sustain.

Do you have any concept of what bankrupt means?

We are not even close

Bankrupt: completely lacking in a particular quality; insolvency.

Insolvency: the state of being insolvent; inability to pay one's debts.

Presently the US Government is barely capable of paying the interest on the debt, which is services on an interest rate which amounts to roughly ZERO. Raise that by as much as 5% and the interest on the US debt will require the entire US Budget relevant to operating the US Government...

Now... where the US Government cannot pay its debt and operate... what do you suppose that concept represents?

Go ahead take a guess.

 

[kaz]

And that is done... the US is stone cold bankrupt, meaning that it now owes in debt, more than it can ever hope to sustain.

Do you have any concept of what bankrupt means?

We are not even close

We are not bankrupt until you have nothing left to plunder, eh big guy?7

 

[Dante]

I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part.


"Government isn't the problem, bad government is"

We're good. I haven't experienced the government that isn't bad, hopefully I will one day. Ironically I'm getting comments from my staff in my business today about how much they hate government. We're being audited by the State of North Carolina. A routine audit. But as I always point out, we have no Constitutional rights for tax collection. They just give us lists of documents to provide, and they assume until we provide it what we have given them is wrong. So I have half my staff getting different parts of the documentation. I provided the financial data, but we need to run endless queries in our system to show things like where we shipped out of State and that sort of thing. We are close to providing it all, a couple things to go. Then they will walk away and say whatever. We won't have to pay more money. But, they showed no cause, provided no warrant, we had no presumption of innocence and we get nothing for all the time we wasted showing everything we claimed is right except they go away.

I understand why people today in greater numbers than any in recent memory would ;'hate' government. People mistakenly transfer the crap of politicians onto government itself. One man like a Ted Cruz (example) can grind government to a halt. Doesn't make government bad at all.

So you blame government on a guy who thinks we have too much of it? That's just whacked.

It wasn't that he said we had too much government, it's that he said government was the problem.
It is possible to have big government that isn't the problem.

No... that is literally NOT possible.

Understand: The Problem is the THREAT TO FREEDOM.

There is no greater threat to freedom, than the power of government. the bigger the government, the greater the power of the government, the greater the threat from government.

It's not like it's a debatable point.

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

 

[Dante]

I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part.


"Government isn't the problem, bad government is"

We're good. I haven't experienced the government that isn't bad, hopefully I will one day. Ironically I'm getting comments from my staff in my business today about how much they hate government. We're being audited by the State of North Carolina. A routine audit. But as I always point out, we have no Constitutional rights for tax collection. They just give us lists of documents to provide, and they assume until we provide it what we have given them is wrong. So I have half my staff getting different parts of the documentation. I provided the financial data, but we need to run endless queries in our system to show things like where we shipped out of State and that sort of thing. We are close to providing it all, a couple things to go. Then they will walk away and say whatever. We won't have to pay more money. But, they showed no cause, provided no warrant, we had no presumption of innocence and we get nothing for all the time we wasted showing everything we claimed is right except they go away.

I understand why people today in greater numbers than any in recent memory would ;'hate' government. People mistakenly transfer the crap of politicians onto government itself. One man like a Ted Cruz (example) can grind government to a halt. Doesn't make government bad at all.

So you blame government on a guy who thinks we have too much of it? That's just whacked.

It wasn't that he said we had too much government, it's that he said government was the problem.
It is possible to have big government that isn't the problem.

No, that is not possible. The more government you have, the more layers of unaccountability you have, which because of human nature leads to corruption and indifference in our rulers. Government works only when it's small and as local as possible and it only does that which we cannot do on our own, like manage limited resources and build roads and that sort of thing. No government has or will ever confiscate and redistribute wealth without becoming corrupt.

We live in a complex interconnected world. Too small a government and we will be left behind

Progress always has it's victims -- and idiotic Luddites. Dante is a Luddite at heart, but...reality sets in

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

"A threat is just a threat."

Brilliant.

The Ideological Left! Ladies and Gentlemen.

Threats are just threats... no need for alarm!

And THAT folks is how a culture decays into bankruptcy and a sad rationalization seeking to normalize abnormality.

ROFLMNAO!

You cannot make this crap up!

 

[kaz]

We're good. I haven't experienced the government that isn't bad, hopefully I will one day. Ironically I'm getting comments from my staff in my business today about how much they hate government. We're being audited by the State of North Carolina. A routine audit. But as I always point out, we have no Constitutional rights for tax collection. They just give us lists of documents to provide, and they assume until we provide it what we have given them is wrong. So I have half my staff getting different parts of the documentation. I provided the financial data, but we need to run endless queries in our system to show things like where we shipped out of State and that sort of thing. We are close to providing it all, a couple things to go. Then they will walk away and say whatever. We won't have to pay more money. But, they showed no cause, provided no warrant, we had no presumption of innocence and we get nothing for all the time we wasted showing everything we claimed is right except they go away.

I understand why people today in greater numbers than any in recent memory would ;'hate' government. People mistakenly transfer the crap of politicians onto government itself. One man like a Ted Cruz (example) can grind government to a halt. Doesn't make government bad at all.

So you blame government on a guy who thinks we have too much of it? That's just whacked.

It wasn't that he said we had too much government, it's that he said government was the problem.
It is possible to have big government that isn't the problem.

No... that is literally NOT possible.

Understand: The Problem is the THREAT TO FREEDOM.

There is no greater threat to freedom, than the power of government. the bigger the government, the greater the power of the government, the greater the threat from government.

It's not like it's a debatable point.

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

Yes, adults trust government and want more of it and believe government can make our decisions for us better than we can as long as it's run well. Children think we can make our own decisions. Great argument.

 

[kaz]

We're good. I haven't experienced the government that isn't bad, hopefully I will one day. Ironically I'm getting comments from my staff in my business today about how much they hate government. We're being audited by the State of North Carolina. A routine audit. But as I always point out, we have no Constitutional rights for tax collection. They just give us lists of documents to provide, and they assume until we provide it what we have given them is wrong. So I have half my staff getting different parts of the documentation. I provided the financial data, but we need to run endless queries in our system to show things like where we shipped out of State and that sort of thing. We are close to providing it all, a couple things to go. Then they will walk away and say whatever. We won't have to pay more money. But, they showed no cause, provided no warrant, we had no presumption of innocence and we get nothing for all the time we wasted showing everything we claimed is right except they go away.

I understand why people today in greater numbers than any in recent memory would ;'hate' government. People mistakenly transfer the crap of politicians onto government itself. One man like a Ted Cruz (example) can grind government to a halt. Doesn't make government bad at all.

So you blame government on a guy who thinks we have too much of it? That's just whacked.

It wasn't that he said we had too much government, it's that he said government was the problem.
It is possible to have big government that isn't the problem.

No, that is not possible. The more government you have, the more layers of unaccountability you have, which because of human nature leads to corruption and indifference in our rulers. Government works only when it's small and as local as possible and it only does that which we cannot do on our own, like manage limited resources and build roads and that sort of thing. No government has or will ever confiscate and redistribute wealth without becoming corrupt.

We live in a complex interconnected world. Too small a government and we will be left behind

Progress always has it's victims -- and idiotic Luddites. Dante is a Luddite at heart, but...reality sets in

Yes, we all lose sleep at night fearing that our government may be too small. It's a real problem, we can't allow that to happen. It would be catastrophic.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

We live in a complex interconnected world. Too small a government and we will be left behind

LMAO!

Pray tell, can you provide us some examples of the great advances which have come as a result of government?

Now... let me get you started here: Space exploration.

The last major gains in such being seen just after the signing of "The Great Society" OKA: the Great Expansion of US Federal Government.

Ok, now you go.

 

[Dante]

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

"A threat is just a threat."

Brilliant.

The Ideological Left! Ladies and Gentlemen.

Threats are just threats... no need for alarm!

And THAT folks is how a culture decays into bankruptcy and a sad rationalization seeking to normalize abnormality.

ROFLMNAO!

You cannot make this crap up!

Alarmist demagoguery on dispaly

 

[Dante]

I understand why people today in greater numbers than any in recent memory would ;'hate' government. People mistakenly transfer the crap of politicians onto government itself. One man like a Ted Cruz (example) can grind government to a halt. Doesn't make government bad at all.

So you blame government on a guy who thinks we have too much of it? That's just whacked.

It wasn't that he said we had too much government, it's that he said government was the problem.
It is possible to have big government that isn't the problem.

No... that is literally NOT possible.

Understand: The Problem is the THREAT TO FREEDOM.

There is no greater threat to freedom, than the power of government. the bigger the government, the greater the power of the government, the greater the threat from government.

It's not like it's a debatable point.

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

Yes, adults trust government and want more of it and believe government can make our decisions for us better than we can as long as it's run well. Children think we can make our own decisions. Great argument.

Adults have experience and wisdom. Children have -- youth

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

...

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

"A threat is just a threat."

Brilliant.

The Ideological Left! Ladies and Gentlemen.

Threats are just threats... no need for alarm!

And THAT folks is how a culture decays into bankruptcy and a sad rationalization seeking to normalize abnormality.

ROFLMNAO!

You cannot make this crap up!

Alarmist demagoguery on dispaly

ROFL! Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

 

[rightwinger]

Why would I give a shit what W said?

Surplus seemed to exist when it was used to justify a tax cut wasn't it?

Like Kaz said.....who cares what was used to justify it ?

GWB was an idiot....like you.

Well GW has a good heart. And he's a long way from being an idiot. He is not a perfect man, thus he was not a perfect President. The simple fact is that the powers that be, whoever that represents, want the US Bankrupted.

And that is done... the US is stone cold bankrupt, meaning that it now owes in debt, more than it can ever hope to sustain.

Do you have any concept of what bankrupt means?

We are not even close

Bankrupt: completely lacking in a particular quality; insolvency.

Insolvency: the state of being insolvent; inability to pay one's debts.

Presently the US Government is barely capable of paying the interest on the debt, which is services on an interest rate which amounts to roughly ZERO. Raise that by as much as 5% and the interest on the US debt will require the entire US Budget relevant to operating the US Government...

Now... where the US Government cannot pay its debt and operate... what do you suppose that concept represents?

Go ahead take a guess.

Now we are getting somewhere

Now to consider someone to be bankrupt, you have to consider assets and liabilities. Now, for liabilities we have $18 trillion in debt
Now, what assets does the US have?
Household wealth is over $60 trillion, we have a GDP of $16 trillion a year, we have the most expensive military in history, the government owns over one third the land in the US

How does that make us bankrupt?

 

[rightwinger]

I understand why people today in greater numbers than any in recent memory would ;'hate' government. People mistakenly transfer the crap of politicians onto government itself. One man like a Ted Cruz (example) can grind government to a halt. Doesn't make government bad at all.

So you blame government on a guy who thinks we have too much of it? That's just whacked.

It wasn't that he said we had too much government, it's that he said government was the problem.
It is possible to have big government that isn't the problem.

No, that is not possible. The more government you have, the more layers of unaccountability you have, which because of human nature leads to corruption and indifference in our rulers. Government works only when it's small and as local as possible and it only does that which we cannot do on our own, like manage limited resources and build roads and that sort of thing. No government has or will ever confiscate and redistribute wealth without becoming corrupt.

We live in a complex interconnected world. Too small a government and we will be left behind

Progress always has it's victims -- and idiotic Luddites. Dante is a Luddite at heart, but...reality sets in

Yes, we all lose sleep at night fearing that our government may be too small. It's a real problem, we can't allow that to happen. It would be catastrophic.

Too small?
I want the right sized government as determined by We the People

 

[Dante]

...

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

"A threat is just a threat."

Brilliant.

The Ideological Left! Ladies and Gentlemen.

Threats are just threats... no need for alarm!

And THAT folks is how a culture decays into bankruptcy and a sad rationalization seeking to normalize abnormality.

ROFLMNAO!

You cannot make this crap up!

Alarmist demagoguery on dispaly

ROFL! Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

Brokers of Fear do not amuse us

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

...

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

"A threat is just a threat."

Brilliant.

The Ideological Left! Ladies and Gentlemen.

Threats are just threats... no need for alarm!

And THAT folks is how a culture decays into bankruptcy and a sad rationalization seeking to normalize abnormality.

ROFLMNAO!

You cannot make this crap up!

Alarmist demagoguery on dispaly

ROFL! Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

Brokers of Fear do not amuse us

LOL!

Drink much?

 

[Dante]

...

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

"A threat is just a threat."

Brilliant.

The Ideological Left! Ladies and Gentlemen.

Threats are just threats... no need for alarm!

And THAT folks is how a culture decays into bankruptcy and a sad rationalization seeking to normalize abnormality.

ROFLMNAO!

You cannot make this crap up!

Alarmist demagoguery on dispaly

ROFL! Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

Brokers of Fear do not amuse us

LOL!

Drink much?

Not so much anymore. It gets old. You?

 

[kaz]

So you blame government on a guy who thinks we have too much of it? That's just whacked.

It wasn't that he said we had too much government, it's that he said government was the problem.
It is possible to have big government that isn't the problem.

No... that is literally NOT possible.

Understand: The Problem is the THREAT TO FREEDOM.

There is no greater threat to freedom, than the power of government. the bigger the government, the greater the power of the government, the greater the threat from government.

It's not like it's a debatable point.

A threat is just a threat. No need for alarm. The adults will settle this

Yes, adults trust government and want more of it and believe government can make our decisions for us better than we can as long as it's run well. Children think we can make our own decisions. Great argument.

Adults have experience and wisdom. Children have -- youth

Yes, adults with wisdom blindly trust government and believe it can be both big and competent, they are in fact fearful when it is too small. I hear you.