what do atheists and agnostics think of Jesus saying they will be condemned

[rightnow909]

John 3:17-19
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Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
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17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.

18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. [emphasis added]

 

[Moonglow]

John was not Jesus and therefore his advent is worthless.

 

[alang1216]

John 3:17-19​

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Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition​

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17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.

18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. [emphasis added]

Speaking for myself alone I'm confident Jesus never said any such thing. I'm equally confident that Jesus was not the son of God because the God of the Bible is a creation of man. In other words, what the Bible says has no more authority than you do, and that is zero. I think that is what it means to be an atheist or agnostic.

 

[rightnow909]

Here is another scripture passage saying the same thing (Mt 28, I believe)

At length he appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. 15And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world and preach the gospel to every[one]. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned

 

[occupied]

Leave people alone to find Heaven or Hell on their own terms. If other people's lack of faith is a threat to your faith that's a problem with you.

 

[rightnow909]

Leave people alone to find Heaven or Hell on their own terms. If other people's lack of faith is a threat to your faith that's a problem with you.

don't disagree

 

[alang1216]

Here is another scripture passage saying the same thing (Mt 28, I believe)

At length he appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. 15And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world and preach the gospel to every[one]. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned

So everyone who lived before Jesus was condemned?

 

[Meriweather]

So everyone who lived before Jesus was condemned?

How are you defining 'condemned'? For example, when I elect to go outside in winter without a coat, I am condemned to be cold. In the same way, if people choose not to follow the way Jesus taught, they are condemned to follow the ways of the world, rather than they ways of the God.

 

[alang1216]

How are you defining 'condemned'?

I thought heaven or hell were the only options.

In the same way, if people choose not to follow the way Jesus taught, they are condemned to follow the ways of the world, rather than they ways of the God.

I don't know what that means. Are you talking about this world or the next?

 

[Meriweather]

I thought heaven or hell were the only options.

Remember, in Jesus time, scripture was meant as a guide through this world. Jesus said his way, the way of the Kingdom, was eternal. One can step into in this world but it will extend into the next. Jesus was always teaching that the Kingdom was in the reach of everyone.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't know what that means. Are you talking about this world or the next?

I am speaking of this world. The next will take care of itself.

 

[alang1216]

Remember, in Jesus time, scripture was meant as a guide through this world. Jesus said his way, the way of the Kingdom, was eternal. One can step into in this world but it will extend into the next. Jesus was always teaching that the Kingdom was in the reach of everyone.

I like your inclusiveness but I'm not sure the majority of Christians view Jesus' message in the same way. The evolution of Christianity has been to make it increasingly exclusive. It is no accident that John was the last Gospel to be written.

 

[Blues Man]

John 3:17-19​

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Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition​

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17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.

18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. [emphasis added]

Don't care.

I generally do not respond well to threats.

If your god was all powerful all loving then there would be no need to threaten people

 

[Meriweather]

I like your inclusiveness but I'm not sure the majority of Christians view Jesus' message in the same way. The evolution of Christianity has been to make it increasingly exclusive. It is no accident that John was the last Gospel to be written.

More Christians than not likely view Jesus' message in the same way. However, those who prefer going for the shock value, like to focus on one or two verses and shock always gets a lot of attention. Those who are serious about living the Way Jesus taught can easily see its inclusiveness. It starts with Jesus saying that he came for the lost. I was lost. I was found. That's the message, that the Way and eternal life (which begins now) and is within the reach of everyone. Even the lost.

Don't be too hard on John's Gospel. He was a spiritual man and had that narrow focus. It widens as one recognizes his intent.

 

[alang1216]

More Christians than not likely view Jesus' message in the same way. However, those who prefer going for the shock value, like to focus on one or two verses and shock always gets a lot of attention. Those who are serious about living the Way Jesus taught can easily see its inclusiveness. It starts with Jesus saying that he came for the lost. I was lost. I was found. That's the message, that the Way and eternal life (which begins now) and is within the reach of everyone. Even the lost.

Yes but it is sometimes hard for me to get past what has been done in his name.

Don't be too hard on John's Gospel. He was a spiritual man and had that narrow focus. It widens as one recognizes his intent.

His intent was to reinforce the division between Christians and Jews. IMHO.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes but it is sometimes hard for me to get past what has been done in his name.

Any atrocity is always done in the name of power and wealth, then whitewashed in the name of something more acceptable. Go back to all of Jesus' own words spoken in his time.

 

[Meriweather]

His intent was to reinforce the division between Christians and Jews. IMHO.

I see it more as a way forward, or even a way back to what changed over the decades and centuries. Is there a particular passage of John's that simply doesn't seem right to you?

 

[alang1216]

Any atrocity is always done in the name of power and wealth, then whitewashed in the name of something more acceptable. Go back to all of Jesus' own words spoken in his time.

Unfortunately we have a lot of things attributed to Jesus but not a lot of corroboration. I think John was writing for his time and his community.

 

[alang1216]

I see it more as a way forward, or even a way back to what changed over the decades and centuries. Is there a particular passage of John's that simply doesn't seem right to you?

John, like Matthew, puts most of the blame for Jesus' death on the Jews, paving the way for centuries of anti-semitism.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

John 3:17-19​

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​

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition​

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​

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17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him.

18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. [emphasis added]

We don't think of it at all.

That's what atheism is.

It's not an action or a belief. It's a lack of action or belief. We literally don't spare a thought to this nonsense, unless in a discussion about it or fighting to keep it out of our government.

These immoral, magical threats just affirm the atheists' decision to be atheist.