CDZ What do American Muslims want?

[Mudda]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

How does a divorce violate existing laws?
How does a Sharia-compliant contract violate existing laws?

I'm sure that some do land within the Western zone of comfort. But sharia is like a knife fight, you're either all in or all out, and if you're all in, it's going to be bloody, that's guaranteed.

 

[Mudda]

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

In terms of sheer numbers, a non-Muslim woman in America is far more likely to be abused by a spouse or other family member. What are you doing to help them?

Holy Deflection Batman!

 

[Arianrhod]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

Sharia is an entire code of rules for living, civil matters along with a penal code. In that sense it's no different than Halakah, or Catholic religious law used in arbritration. What you and others seem to miss is that not all Muslims follow the entire package, just like not all Jews follow the entire package - what is followed is what is line with US law, or whatever the law of the country is. In any western country that allows religious arbritration - it applies ONLY to civil matters - not criminal. Divorce, marriage, contracts - and it's voluntary. It also can go against existing laws. It's a reasonable avenue for religious people who want to resolve things within their faith.

I simply disagree, sharia law is totally unfair to women and should be disallowed everywhere possible. As for the other religions, go start a thread, you keep trying to derail this one. Who do I report YOU to? .

As for this "It also can go against existing laws", you must be nuts.

You simply disagree with the First Amendment? Oh, well, then.

 

[Arianrhod]

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

In terms of sheer numbers, a non-Muslim woman in America is far more likely to be abused by a spouse or other family member. What are you doing to help them?

Holy Deflection Batman!

I just wondered why your hyperfocus was on a tiny minority of women whom you assume are being mistreated based on nothing more than your opinion, while the evidence of spousal abuse among the majority population is rampant and, apparently, of no interest to you.

 

[Mudda]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

Sharia is an entire code of rules for living, civil matters along with a penal code. In that sense it's no different than Halakah, or Catholic religious law used in arbritration. What you and others seem to miss is that not all Muslims follow the entire package, just like not all Jews follow the entire package - what is followed is what is line with US law, or whatever the law of the country is. In any western country that allows religious arbritration - it applies ONLY to civil matters - not criminal. Divorce, marriage, contracts - and it's voluntary. It also can go against existing laws. It's a reasonable avenue for religious people who want to resolve things within their faith.

I simply disagree, sharia law is totally unfair to women and should be disallowed everywhere possible. As for the other religions, go start a thread, you keep trying to derail this one. Who do I report YOU to? .

As for this "It also can go against existing laws", you must be nuts.

You simply disagree with the First Amendment? Oh, well, then.

So you'd let Muslim women be stoned to death in the US for some bullshit reason?

 

[Mudda]

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

In terms of sheer numbers, a non-Muslim woman in America is far more likely to be abused by a spouse or other family member. What are you doing to help them?

Holy Deflection Batman!

I just wondered why your hyperfocus was on a tiny minority of women whom you assume are being mistreated based on nothing more than your opinion, while the evidence of spousal abuse among the majority population is rampant and, apparently, of no interest to you.

It's a thread about Muslim women in the US. That's all.And I can stay focussed here. If I want to discuss something else I'll go to another thread. See how that works?

 

[Arianrhod]

So you'd let Muslim women be stoned to death in the US for some bullshit reason?

Can you cite the part of the First Amendment that permits stoning?

 

[Arianrhod]

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

In terms of sheer numbers, a non-Muslim woman in America is far more likely to be abused by a spouse or other family member. What are you doing to help them?

Holy Deflection Batman!

I just wondered why your hyperfocus was on a tiny minority of women whom you assume are being mistreated based on nothing more than your opinion, while the evidence of spousal abuse among the majority population is rampant and, apparently, of no interest to you.

It's a thread about Muslim women in the US. That's all.And I can stay focussed here. If I want to discuss something else I'll go to another thread. See how that works?

I notice you've been very diligent in reminding others of the topic whenever they've strayed to Europe or the ME. I also wonder, if your non-Muslim neighbor was abusing his wife, whether or not your concern would extend to her, but you've essentially answered that.

 

[elektra]

Kosher is part of halakah, Jewish religious law. Are you saying if Jews want to use religious law, like some muslims use sharia, to settle civil matters, they have no business being in the US?

My statement was pretty clear, was it not?

State a specific civil matter, and we can discuss it.

You're statement was very unclear.

Our exchange started with this, from you:

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

At which point I brought up kosher laws and you indicated you don't seem to understand exactly what Halakah or for that matter, Sharia is.

Both Sharia and Halakah cover a huge range of rules most of which involve civil affairs. There is also a penal code for major crimes (in both) with a certain penchant for stoning misbehavers. The degree to which a country or individual follows or interprets Sharia varies widely.

Halakah includes kosher dietary laws.
Sharia includes halal dietary laws.

Those are just some of the aspects of Sharia and Halakah. Now, do you have a problem with Jewish men living by Halakah in their private lives?

Should kosher and halal be made illegal? Should their adherents be forced to leave the country?

Nice job ignoring what you stated originally, will you present a civil case that is resolved with Sharia Law or not?

 

[Syriusly]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

Sharia is an entire code of rules for living, civil matters along with a penal code. In that sense it's no different than Halakah, or Catholic religious law used in arbritration. What you and others seem to miss is that not all Muslims follow the entire package, just like not all Jews follow the entire package - what is followed is what is line with US law, or whatever the law of the country is. In any western country that allows religious arbritration - it applies ONLY to civil matters - not criminal. Divorce, marriage, contracts - and it's voluntary. It also can go against existing laws. It's a reasonable avenue for religious people who want to resolve things within their faith.

I simply disagree, sharia law is totally unfair to women and should be disallowed everywhere possible. As for the other religions, go start a thread, you keep trying to derail this one. Who do I report YOU to? .

As for this "It also can go against existing laws", you must be nuts.

You simply disagree with the First Amendment? Oh, well, then.

So you'd let Muslim women be stoned to death in the US for some bullshit reason?

No- no one is suggesting that- as we have said over and over-religious law is not allowed to violate U.S. laws.

If Muslim men or women choose to follow aspects of Sharia law between themselves that does not violate U.S. law, then doing so is their religious right.

 

[Syriusly]

So...kosher should be illegal?

I don't think you know much about Jewish religious law or Sharia.

You seem to be confusing Kosher food with Halakha (Jewish religious law).

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Ridiculous to you- since you have made it clear that when you say that Americans can't follow 'foreign religious law' what you really mean is you want to prevent American Muslims from practising Sharia law in private, between themselves, when it does not violate U.S. law.

You are okay with every other religion doing so.

 

[Syriusly]

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

In terms of sheer numbers, a non-Muslim woman in America is far more likely to be abused by a spouse or other family member. What are you doing to help them?

Holy Deflection Batman!

I just wondered why your hyperfocus was on a tiny minority of women whom you assume are being mistreated based on nothing more than your opinion, while the evidence of spousal abuse among the majority population is rampant and, apparently, of no interest to you.

It's a thread about Muslim women in the US. That's all.And I can stay focussed here. If I want to discuss something else I'll go to another thread. See how that works?

Actually the thread is about "What do American Muslims want"

You want to talk about how American Muslim women should not be allowed to practice their faith even when it doesn't violate any U.S. law.

 

[Syriusly]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

How does a divorce violate existing laws?
How does a Sharia-compliant contract violate existing laws?

. But sharia is like a knife fight, you're either all in or all out, and if you're all in, it's going to be bloody, that's guaranteed.

According to who?

Remember so far all you have cited is yourself.

And so far your knowledge of Sharia has been far from convincing.

 

[Syriusly]

Remember- in the United States, American law covers everyone.

People can mutually agree to follow Halakah or Sharia in their private dealings. If American women consensually agree to follow Sharia law with each other- who are you to tell them how they can practice their religion?

If American Muslim women agree to be governed by sharia then they must be suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, and need our help even more.

Feel free to offer your "help".

Unless you can prove that they are mentally incapacitated, you are just demanding that you have the right to abrogate their First Amendment rights.

So she has a First Amendment right to be brainwashed without anyone coming to her help? Ummm... no. That's not how it works. As for proving it, take any woman who agrees to be governed by sharia, there's your proof.

How would you reconcile our nation's core belief in freedom of religion with your views here?

Freedom of religion is not absolute. As an example, I can't just rape someone and claim to be free of prosecution because I declare myself a Muslim and there weren't 4 witnessed to the rape. So the complaining woman should be stoned to death for adultery.

Once again you move from what we are discussing- consensual behavior among adults that doesn't violate U.S. law to actions which are criminal actions.

Muslims have the same religious rights as every American has. Those rights include conducting themselves in private relationships as they see fit so long as they do not break American law.

And that includes living their lives by Sharia as long as they do not violate the law.

 

[elektra]

So...kosher should be illegal?

I don't think you know much about Jewish religious law or Sharia.

You seem to be confusing Kosher food with Halakha (Jewish religious law).

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Ridiculous to you- since you have made it clear that when you say that Americans can't follow 'foreign religious law' what you really mean is you want to prevent American Muslims from practising Sharia law in private, between themselves, when it does not violate U.S. law.

You are okay with every other religion doing so.

I did not state that, you made it up,

Give us an example of Moslems practicing sharia law in the USA, I have yet to see that.

 

[Syriusly]

So...kosher should be illegal?

I don't think you know much about Jewish religious law or Sharia.

You seem to be confusing Kosher food with Halakha (Jewish religious law).

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Ridiculous to you- since you have made it clear that when you say that Americans can't follow 'foreign religious law' what you really mean is you want to prevent American Muslims from practising Sharia law in private, between themselves, when it does not violate U.S. law.

You are okay with every other religion doing so.

I did not state that, you made it up,
.

Quoting you:
Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

When we pointed out that many Americans live their lives following religious law, including Kosher laws- you indicated that was okay- because "The Constitution was based upon the Bible"

Yes- you do have a problem.

 

[elektra]

You seem to be confusing Kosher food with Halakha (Jewish religious law).

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Ridiculous to you- since you have made it clear that when you say that Americans can't follow 'foreign religious law' what you really mean is you want to prevent American Muslims from practising Sharia law in private, between themselves, when it does not violate U.S. law.

You are okay with every other religion doing so.

I did not state that, you made it up,
.

Quoting you:
Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

When we pointed out that many Americans live their lives following religious law, including Kosher laws- you indicated that was okay- because "The Constitution was based upon the Bible"

Yes- you do have a problem.

Again, no, that is not what I stated.

So you do not have an example of Moslem Men resolving civil matters with Sharia Law?

How about telling us an example other than food how Moslems live by Sharia law.

 

[Syriusly]

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Ridiculous to you- since you have made it clear that when you say that Americans can't follow 'foreign religious law' what you really mean is you want to prevent American Muslims from practising Sharia law in private, between themselves, when it does not violate U.S. law.

You are okay with every other religion doing so.

I did not state that, you made it up,
.

Quoting you:
Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

When we pointed out that many Americans live their lives following religious law, including Kosher laws- you indicated that was okay- because "The Constitution was based upon the Bible"

Yes- you do have a problem.

Again, no, that is not what I stated..

Well I am quoting you

Quoting you:
Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

So - yes you did.

Now- are you okay when anyone else but Muslims follows religious law in the United STates?

 

[Coyote]

...so long as they don't violate American law or harm others.

Sharia violates US laws in too many ways to enumerate right here.

How does a divorce violate existing laws?
How does a Sharia-compliant contract violate existing laws?

I'm sure that some do land within the Western zone of comfort. But sharia is like a knife fight, you're either all in or all out, and if you're all in, it's going to be bloody, that's guaranteed.

That's not true, at least not in the way it's been used in any western countries for some time now.

 

[Arianrhod]

Kosher dietary rules IS part of Halakha.

And to bring them into this OP, as a point to be made, is simply ridiculous.

Ridiculous to you- since you have made it clear that when you say that Americans can't follow 'foreign religious law' what you really mean is you want to prevent American Muslims from practising Sharia law in private, between themselves, when it does not violate U.S. law.

You are okay with every other religion doing so.

I did not state that, you made it up,
.

Quoting you:
Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.

When we pointed out that many Americans live their lives following religious law, including Kosher laws- you indicated that was okay- because "The Constitution was based upon the Bible"

Yes- you do have a problem.

Again, no, that is not what I stated.

Then why is there post in this thread under your username stating this:

Yes, I have a problem with Moslem Men living by Sharia Law in their private life.

There can be only one law in the USA, that of the Constitution.