What Constitutes a "Right?"

[THE EVIDENCE: human life exist; humanity didn't create itself; thus something else did and it is THAT som€ething else; which is God.

If one accepts the premise of your statement as irrefutable fact, then God, because he exists, and because God didn't create himself, thus something else did...

...I guess that would be God's God. Which leads to the next question, who created God's God, since he couldn't have created himself.
 
I've never linked any of my claims to the assertion that a Creator exists. Check my posts.

Then you would not be one in this thread upon whose foot the shoe fits. I daresay there a quite a number who do wear that size here though.

Spoken like a top level NY Government hack. "You Must". You denounce God's existence , that is between You and God. Don't include me. I'm sorry for your Grand Parents.

Your post has no relation to mine, why did you reply to it in that manner?
 
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”

New York Spectator. August 23, 1831
“ The court of common pleas of Chester county, [New York] rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.



Regardless of where you come down on this issue, and regardless of how much revisionist may wish to change it , those that founded this nation had a pretty deep belief in God and the principles of thier beliefs helped create the very nation in which we all live. It would seem a pointless matter to debate the existance of God when one actually lives in the very nation that was created by those that had a deep belief in his existance in the first place and set down a method by which a person could decide for themselves on the matter without intervention.
 
As was shown before and linked numerous times, that is a lie.

Google: burden of proof

Fallacy: Burden of Proof

see example 3

Not to mention 'appeal to ridicule' which the ones in this thread who can't refute you are resorting to, blissfully ignorant of how foolish it makes them look.

Fight your own battles dick head. Prove God Exists? Prove God doesn't Exist? You are out numbered. You have no moral ground at all. What morals were not taken from Higher Understanding? Justification is a Spiritual Concept. You deny the foundation, you deny yourself the ability to sustain your argument, all of the Principles you would use, are born of Spirit, which you deny. That leave both of you cruising public rest rooms in search of reason. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

The progressive hysteria of your posts in this thread is an excellent indicator of thoroughly you got trounced in the debate.

btw, I've yet to see a random capitalizer who could hold his own in a debate with adults. Welcome to that club of loseRs.
 
Not to mention 'appeal to ridicule' which the ones in this thread who can't refute you are resorting to, blissfully ignorant of how foolish it makes them look.

Fight your own battles dick head. Prove God Exists? Prove God doesn't Exist? You are out numbered. You have no moral ground at all. What morals were not taken from Higher Understanding? Justification is a Spiritual Concept. You deny the foundation, you deny yourself the ability to sustain your argument, all of the Principles you would use, are born of Spirit, which you deny. That leave both of you cruising public rest rooms in search of reason. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

The progressive hysteria of your posts in this thread is an excellent indicator of thoroughly you got trounced in the debate.

btw, I've yet to see a random capitalizer who could hold his own in a debate with adults. Welcome to that club of loseRs.

Yet You keep coming back for More. All this hysteria, proving there is no god. Sissy Boy can't rest until the Light is Banished from Society. Progressive Huh??? LOL. I don't debate with people that lie, mis characterize, and distort, knowingly. Setarcos was warned more than once, more than twice. You defending him like You are his *****, really adds to the stink. How does trashing the way I post advance your argument? When I randomly Capitalize, as you put it, it is actually according to Purpose, and that is First Letter only. Not that accuracy and clarity matter at all to you, Statist Freak. Let me know when you are done holding Setarcos's dick and you are ready to grown up. We Are such losers in your delusion, that one must wonder why you are here? To destroy all knowledge of a Supreme Being? Does it stand in the way of your quest for World Domination? What about God id offensive to Righteousness? That, I'm sure You Know Nothing About. You are marked. Albert Pike won't save You.
 
Now you're entitled to your reasoning; but you are not entitled to dismiss another's reasoning through the pretense that such has not been sustained by evidence; then further demanding that the evidence can only be valid when it convinces you; as to establish such a rule, discredits your own reasoning.


Somebody quote all of his "they can't prove there's no god" posts
Human life is a function of an endowment by Nature's God; a gift...


Define:Nature's God
For instance, most of physics begins at 'the Big Bang'..

Demonstrate

THE EVIDENCE: human life exist; humanity didn't create itself; thus something else did and it is THAT som€ething else; which is God.

So is your father god? Your mother? Is Ida god?
 
[THE EVIDENCE: human life exist; humanity didn't create itself; thus something else did and it is THAT som€ething else; which is God.

If one accepts the premise of your statement as irrefutable fact, then God, because he exists, and because God didn't create himself, thus something else did...

...I guess that would be God's God. Which leads to the next question, who created God's God, since he couldn't have created himself.


Of course, this leads to infinite regression, which is yet another sign that the premise is flawed as it leads to logical absurdity.
 
those that founded this nation had a pretty deep belief in God and the principles of thier beliefs helped create the very nation in which we all live.

Which has nothing to do with the OP or the discussion which follows.
It would seem a pointless matter to debate the existance of God when one actually lives in the very nation that was created by those that had a deep belief in his existance in the first place

Their beliefs have nothing to do with the matter at hand
 
those that founded this nation had a pretty deep belief in God and the principles of thier beliefs helped create the very nation in which we all live.

Which has nothing to do with the OP or the discussion which follows.
It would seem a pointless matter to debate the existance of God when one actually lives in the very nation that was created by those that had a deep belief in his existance in the first place

Their beliefs have nothing to do with the matter at hand

It makes me happy to see that you are exercising your opinion here, and that as we each have one are free to express it in some fashion it would seem that Freedom was i.e. "right" was granted by the very people who had a belief in a devine being (God). So while your opinion as to my post may lead you to believe that it had no impact on this conversation, I submit that it has everything to do with it. The very fact your here, making these statements given to you by the very men that held a deep belief in God renders this whole conversation mute. While some may believe that there is no God and that science is the one true God if you will, still others believe that God created all things and from there all things begin. The very fact that we can debate this is a "right" granted to us by a Govt. formed by men who believed in that very same God. So there is little to have to prove to you or anyone else as to God's existance , it is enough that they believe that God exists. If a person were to have to prove everything and nothing on faith then I would challenge science to prove evolution, or perhaps that is why they call it a theory? because it is forever changing? While I respect your opinion on the matter, as I do others, my position is very simple here, the nation in which we live is according to it's founders a Christian nation and one in which we live. Any debate on the existance of God while stimulating does nothing to change that and further does not prove one way or the other where your rights come from and that should be pretty obvious and that is the thread topic.
 
[THE EVIDENCE: human life exist; humanity didn't create itself; thus something else did and it is THAT som€ething else; which is God.

If one accepts the premise of your statement as irrefutable fact, then God, because he exists, and because God didn't create himself, thus something else did...

...I guess that would be God's God. Which leads to the next question, who created God's God, since he couldn't have created himself.

You are describing infinite recursion. That's why infinity is my God.
 
Liberties are restricted, not granted, by the collective

The very fact your here, making these statements given to you by the very men that held a deep belief in God renders this whole conversation mute.

What men gave me these statements?
While some may believe that there is no God and that science is the one true God if you will, still others believe that God created all things and from there all things begin. The very fact that we can debate this is a "right" granted to us by a Govt.

Actually, it's an ability/liberty that the State dare not restrict because they know we'd have their heads
formed by men who believed in that very same God. So there is little to have to prove to you or anyone else as to God's existance , it is enough that they believe that God exists


:eusa_eh:

. If a person were to have to prove everything and nothing on faith then I would challenge science to prove evolution, or perhaps that is why they call it a theory? because it is forever changing?

Seriously, though- what are you babbling about?
 
You are describing infinite recursion. That's why infinity is my God.


So you worship a mathematical concept?

Let us remember this the next time you attempt to anthropomorphize the matter and attribute actions and desires to it
 
What Constitutes a "Right?"

Did you not read the thread topic or are you here to learn? If so I will be happy to continue teaching you. You are aware I'm sure of the men who created the framework in which those "rights" you exercise here and what they stood for and believed in , as well as the pinciples in which they founded it are you not? If so then, why are you debating the existance of God in the framework of "rights" that are given to you by the very Govt. in which you live and done so under the framework of the men who believed in that very same God? Why not spend more time debating what the thread topic is about "rights", or are your debating skills limited to just editing others posts and asking questions?
 
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”

New York Spectator. August 23, 1831
“ The court of common pleas of Chester county, [New York] rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.



Regardless of where you come down on this issue, and regardless of how much revisionist may wish to change it , those that founded this nation had a pretty deep belief in God and the principles of thier beliefs helped create the very nation in which we all live. It would seem a pointless matter to debate the existance of God when one actually lives in the very nation that was created by those that had a deep belief in his existance in the first place and set down a method by which a person could decide for themselves on the matter without intervention.

The British believed in God too.
 
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”

New York Spectator. August 23, 1831
“ The court of common pleas of Chester county, [New York] rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.



Regardless of where you come down on this issue, and regardless of how much revisionist may wish to change it , those that founded this nation had a pretty deep belief in God and the principles of thier beliefs helped create the very nation in which we all live. It would seem a pointless matter to debate the existance of God when one actually lives in the very nation that was created by those that had a deep belief in his existance in the first place and set down a method by which a person could decide for themselves on the matter without intervention.

The British believed in God too.

They still do NY at least some do, of course I cannot speak for the entire population of the UK.
 
15th post
[THE EVIDENCE: human life exist; humanity didn't create itself; thus something else did and it is THAT som€ething else; which is God.

If one accepts the premise of your statement as irrefutable fact, then God, because he exists, and because God didn't create himself, thus something else did...

...I guess that would be God's God. Which leads to the next question, who created God's God, since he couldn't have created himself.

You are describing infinite recursion. That's why infinity is my God.

No, I am demolishing the fallacious argument that for a living being to exist, it has to have been created by a superior living being.

I, btw, was created by my parents. Show me a human anywhere, anytime, who was not created by other flesh and blood mortal creatures of this earth and then you will have shown me at least the possibility that something or someone not of this earth created us.
 
From your link.

Burden of Proof is a fallacy in which the burden of proof is placed on the wrong side. Another version occurs when a lack of evidence for side A is taken to be evidence for side B in cases in which the burden of proof actually rests on side B. A common name for this is an Appeal to Ignorance. This sort of reasoning typically has the following form:

1. Claim X is presented by side A and the burden of proof actually rests on side B.
2. Side B claims that X is false because there is no proof for X.

My claim is that God does exist. I have met my burden of proof.

You have made a positive assertion that God does not exist. You have not supported your assertion.

As you have made a positive assertion, asking you to meet your burden of proof is not asking you to prove a negative. All that does is show me you don't know what that means.

You are like a little child using big words to impress people, but are an empty shell, with no intellectual substance.

If you are asserting that yours is not a positive assertion (God does not exist.), then you are asserting a belief, which cannot be proven nor can it be used as a basis to refute another belief.

So, my little juvenile buddy, which is it? Are you positively asserting that God does not exist, or are you stating a belief?

You're claiming that an unsubstantiated assertion that God exists, is PROOF? That you need not furnish any evidence to support that claim to have satisfied the burden of proof requirement?

A claim without supporting evidence does not need to be disproven because it has proven nothing.

On topic:

If you want to prove that we have unalienable rights endowed by our Creator, you must first prove the existence of that Creator. Otherwise your assertion of the existence of such rights is merely an unproven belief or opinion.


Well again, no matter how many times evidence is offered, nevertheless comes the assertion that no such evidence has been advanced...

You exist... you didn't create yourself, thus it follows that you owe your existence to something other than you. You'll claim that such is a function of a chemical/biological system, which is fully understood by science and that such an understanding of those processes precludes any other potential for a further understanding...; and this despite the continual expansion of the human understanding of such.

Sadly, the mere understanding of the process does not exclude that which one does not understand, recognize or that one can observe; the origins of such processes, you want to lay at the foot of happenstance... you make such claim based upon absolutely nothing beyond faith; yet you advance it as the purest essence of truth; and spare me the distraction that you've made no such claims or empty challenges to prove such; as the anti-theist reasoning is about as open a book as one will ever come upon; so we won't be going down that fallacious road.

Now you're entitled to your reasoning; but you are not entitled to dismiss another's reasoning through the pretense that such has not been sustained by evidence; then further demanding that the evidence can only be valid when it convinces you; as to establish such a rule, discredits your own reasoning.

Human life is a function of an endowment by Nature's God; a gift...

Now Nature's God is an unknown value in this equation; but like any theory... such must begin somewhere... and it is at that point that our theory begins.

For instance, most of physics begins at 'the Big Bang'... there is much evidence to support that theory, but nearly all of it is disputed by someone, most of whom have excellent arguments which comes with their respective articles of evidence. Can't be proven conclusively... as there is no means to do so. You may agree with the evidence whcih supports the notion in general; you may be sufficiently heeled in the science to agree with specific, detailed theories... or you may flat out disagree with all of it.

The fact is that such is the accepted starting point; the theory serves reason and is sutained by the evidence of those who have considered it.

Religion is no different. Adherents to such do not come to such a belief in a vaccum; they are taught of the concept, they study the documents, consider the evidence and inevitably come to their conclusions based upon the same processes.

THE EVIDENCE: human life exist; humanity didn't create itself; thus something else did and it is THAT som€ething else; which is God.


That's sufficient evidence to stand as proof for me...

You may disagree... but you can no longer claim that in this thread, that evidence for the existence of God, has not been provided.

So step off ...

You can believe what you like. The fact is that the existence of God has not been proven here or anywhere else. The same old arguments are trotted out and dressed up for contemporary viewing, whether it be from Anselm or Kalaam. They are simply mind experiments and word games which amount to nothing in terms of proof. To claim otherwise is rank stupidity.
 
John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”

New York Spectator. August 23, 1831
“ The court of common pleas of Chester county, [New York] rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.



Regardless of where you come down on this issue, and regardless of how much revisionist may wish to change it , those that founded this nation had a pretty deep belief in God and the principles of thier beliefs helped create the very nation in which we all live. It would seem a pointless matter to debate the existance of God when one actually lives in the very nation that was created by those that had a deep belief in his existance in the first place and set down a method by which a person could decide for themselves on the matter without intervention.

The British believed in God too.

They still do NY at least some do, of course I cannot speak for the entire population of the UK.

I am speaking of circa 1776. Both sides of that 'debate' were primarily Christian, so it is a fallacious argument to make that our form of government and the events that brought it about were somehow uniquely Christian in their nature and inspiration.
 
I am speaking of circa 1776. Both sides of that 'debate' were primarily Christian, so it is a fallacious argument to make that our form of government and the events that brought it about were somehow uniquely Christian in their nature and inspiration.

Forgive me Ny but that was not the implied meaning of the statement, nor was it intended to mean that somehow our side is more Christian than those godless redcoats. *laughs* What it meant to to imply was that in this debate of God or no God. it doesn't matter when it applies to "rights" because the very framework in which our Govt. was formed was formed by men who believed in a Christian God and as such within that framework supplied you and I the "right" to debate such as we are. Further, I meant to imply debating Gods existance is a useless exercise given that God cannot take away your "rights" as we know them but Govt. formed by the men who believed in that God can. Frankly I find the debate over Gods existance somewhat troubling because those on both sides of the issue tend to mock one anotherfor their beliefs or disbeliefs when I was pointing out the very nation in which we live was formed by men who belived in God and alllowed within that framework the "right" to disagree with Gods existance as well. So hopefully as it applies to the thread topic "rights" IMHO they are only temporary and can be easily taken away.
 
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