What are/should be Israel's plans for the West Bank?

[M14 Shooter]

Yes wiping entire peoples and communities out of existence on purpose is genocide. There are literally hundreds of palestinian communities that no longer exist because they were purposely wiped out by the Israelis and the creation of Israel.

Removing a few towns isnt genocide. Killing off a race is genocide.
The Israelis are NOT trying to kill off the Palestinians.
However, the Palestinians are indeed trying to kill off the Israelis.

 

[Shogun]

Bring em on--Mexico has taken us over anyway.

was that a "remember the alamo" sort of bring em on or was that a "why hell yea they can carve a nation from my state" kind?

 

[CorpMediaSux]

Removing a few towns isnt genocide. Killing off a race is genocide. The Israelis are NOT trying to kill off the Palestinians. However, the Palestinians are indeed trying to kill off the Israelis

They haven't removed a "few" towns. A few is 12, or 23. We're talking HUNDREDS of towns and villages destroyed or just straight taken over. Look to me the bottom line is that Isreal can do what it wants, but why is the U.S. financing this immoral occupation, why are putting guns and money into the Isreali state. I say let them fight it out without our influence. We do that and 99% of our terrorism problems go away.

 

[M14 Shooter]

They haven't removed a "few" towns. A few is 12, or 23. We're talking HUNDREDS of towns and villages destroyed or just straight taken over

Killing off a race is genocide. If the Israelis were committing genocide, there'd be no Palestinians left.

Look to me the bottom line is that Isreal can do what it wants, but why is the U.S. financing this immoral occupation,

There's no occupation.
You occupy land that doesnt belong to you. The West Bank belongs to Israel, who won it in a war that she didnt start, taken from a country that went to war against her.

why are putting guns and money into the Isreali state. I say let them fight it out without our influence.

Israel is a open, liberal, westen democracy, surrounded by people that would destory her as quckly as they could. We support Israel for the same reaosn we supported the UK against the Nazis.

 

[doniston]

sure way to make enemies- say that Israel should fight their own battles.

hear the brainwashed crowd booooo,hisssssssss.

I don't understand those comments at all.

 

[doniston]

Removing a few towns isnt genocide. Killing off a race is genocide.
The Israelis are NOT trying to kill off the Palestinians.
However, the Palestinians are indeed trying to kill off the Israelis.

What hypocritical garbage

 

[M14 Shooter]

What hypocritical garbage

Please show the hypocricy.

Hamas, Hizboulah, and the PLO all have, as stated in theie charters, the absolute desire to destory Israel.

If Israel had any such desire, Hamas, Hizboulah and the PLO would not exist.

 

[Shogun]

Still trying to ignore the same reaction that our GERONIMO acted out, I see.



So, what other western nation gets to filter national favoratism according to ethnicity? I guess if the south didn't REALLY want blacks where they were because they, uh, didn't outright kill em all off.


In south africa the same behaviour was called aparthied. Thank god blacks have never been shat upon like the jews or else they might qualify for their own carved out state too. Now, if only we could find another land full of people who probably didnt want half of the land they grew up on....

 

[M14 Shooter]

So, what other western nation gets to filter national favoratism according to ethnicity?

All of them. The US has immigration quotas, as do most other countries. And we all have every right to have them.

In south africa the same behaviour was called aparthied.

Strawman. Unlike Apartheid, all Israeli citizens have the same rights, regardless of ethnicity or religion.

 

[Doug]

My own guess is that the Middle East has a big nuclear war in its future, which will see the simultaneous disappearance of Israel and of many Arab cities.

We should anticipate this second Holocaust, and offer immediate American citizenship to Israeli Jews, thus encouraging them to emigrate and avoid the coming disaster.

Offering them part of Texas, or some other state, would be a generous but smart thing to do, including full sovereignty. The local inhabitants could be moved out and resettled elsewhere.

If the Arabs had been rational, they would have welcomed the Jewish settlers, even before WWII. They would have received an infusion of entrepreneurial spirit, Western ideas, democratic values, capital, and human energy which could have served as a spark to pull them out of backwardness.

Arab and Jew together would have made Israel/Palestine another Hong Kong economically, and another (pre-Hitler) Vienna intellectually. Historically, Muslims have been more tolerant of Jews than Christians, so this would have had historic precedent -- it would have been welcoming an exiled people home.

But human beings are not rational so we will probably get a nuclear war instead.

 

[Shogun]

All of them. The US has immigration quotas, as do most other countries. And we all have every right to have them.


Strawman. Unlike Apartheid, all Israeli citizens have the same rights, regardless of ethnicity or religion.

immigration quotas have nothing to do with equal rights shared by blacks, whites, asians etc that ARE already American. Is this where we pretend that jews and pals ahve the same rights and privilages in Israel?


Israel and the Occupied Territories: An ongoing human rights crisis
http://web.amnesty.org/web/web.nsf/pages/iot_home

Israel/Occupied PalestinianTerritories: Cutting vital supplies to Gaza would amount to collective punishment
http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGMDE150602007

Rights group: Shin Bet denies vital treatment to Palestinians
In response, the Shin Bet said that it has to balance security considerations against human rights
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/773502.html

Israel Must Observe Basic Human Rights of Palestinians in Occupied Territories, Insists Amnesty International
http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGUSA20070604001


Razing Rafah:
Mass Home Demolitions in the Gaza Strip
These houses should have been demolished and evacuated a long time ago … Three hundred meters of the Strip along the two sides of the border must be evacuated … Three hundred meters, no matter how many houses, period.
—Major-General Yom-Tov Samiya, former head of IDF Southern Command1

I built homes for Israelis for 13 years. I never thought the day would come when they’d destroy my house. … They destroyed the future. How can I start all over now?
— Isbah al-Tayour, Rafah resident, former construction worker in Israel 2
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/gaza/



Israel: West Bank Barrier Endangers Basic Rights
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2003/10/01/isrlpa6417.htm

Israel and the Occupied Territories: International Rights Groups Decry Increased Harassment of Monitors
http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/05/isrl052703.htm

Israel: Stop Using Flechettes in Gaza
“Flechettes may not be banned outright, but they should never be used in areas where there are large numbers of civilians,” said Hanny Megally, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa Division of Human Rights Watch. “The Israeli Army doesn’t use them in the West Bank because of potential risks to civilians. It makes no sense to keep using them in Gaza, one of the most densely-populated areas on earth.”
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2003/04/29/isrlpa5821_txt.htm



Israeli Airstrike on Crowded Civilian Area Condemned
Thirteen civilians were reported killed and some 140 injured in the attack. At least eight of the civilians killed were children.
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2002/07/23/isrlpa4137.htm



Indeed, the length to which the enablers of the modern nazi-like movment will go through to validate the action of the master rac, er, chosen is rediculous. I bet there isn't a single one of your enablers who would want to live as a palestinian in isreal.

 

[Shogun]

Offering them part of Texas, or some other state, would be a generous but smart thing to do, including full sovereignty. The local inhabitants could be moved out and resettled elsewhere.


hehehehe... Id LOVE to see how this would be accepted by Texans.. I have a few bets on who would be out killing whome all of a sudden.

 

[M14 Shooter]

immigration quotas have nothing to do with equal rights shared by blacks, whites, asians etc that ARE already American. Is this where we pretend that jews and pals ahve the same rights and privilages in Israel?
Israel and the Occupied Territories: An ongoing human rights crisis
http://web.amnesty.org/web/web.nsf/pages/iot_home
...etc

How many of these links describe events where he Israelis deniy equal rights to Israeli citizens?

 

[José]

Kudos to you Shogun

An american citizen who's able to see through the barrage of indoctrination that prevails in America and denounce the immoral nature of the israeli state.

America being a country so full of super patriotic clowns, it’s always a pleasure to find someone who is not afraid to call racism racism.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Doug
My own guess is that the Middle East has a big nuclear war in its future, which will see the simultaneous disappearance of Israel and of many Arab cities.

We should anticipate this second Holocaust, and offer immediate American citizenship to Israeli Jews, thus encouraging them to emigrate and avoid the coming disaster.

Offering them part of Texas, or some other state, would be a generous but smart thing to do, including full sovereignty. The local inhabitants could be moved out and resettled elsewhere.

If the Arabs had been rational, they would have welcomed the Jewish settlers, even before WWII. They would have received an infusion of entrepreneurial spirit, Western ideas, democratic values, capital, and human energy which could have served as a spark to pull them out of backwardness.

Arab and Jew together would have made Israel/Palestine another Hong Kong economically, and another (pre-Hitler) Vienna intellectually. Historically, Muslims have been more tolerant of Jews than Christians, so this would have had historic precedent -- it would have been welcoming an exiled people home.

But human beings are not rational so we will probably get a nuclear war instead.

The key to avoid this gloomy scenario is to promote Israel’s acceptance in the region, Doug.

And this acceptance will only come when Israel evolves from a jewish ethnocracy to a democratic state.

The best way to accelerate this transition from a racial dictatorship to a democratic state (in order to avoid the nuclear option you referred to) would be the establishment of an international protectorate in Palestine.

In fact I can’t think of any other place in the world where an international protectorate is needed most.

The palestinian issue is by far the most emotional issue in the Middle East.

Nothing that happens in Kosovo, for example, causes american skyscrappers to collapse.

And believe me, what happens in Palestine does.

The fact that the international community understand the need for a protectorate in Kosovo but not in Palestine is absolutely mind-boggling, to say the least.

 

[Shogun]

How many of these links describe events where he Israelis deniy equal rights to Israeli citizens?

id say building an apartheied wall and rubbing out pal homes and wantonly bombing building and killing kids for the sake of one hammas leader counts pretty fucking loudly.


would YOU want to live in Israel as a pal? You know.. raise a family and have a home there? Feel consident that your ethnicity would not be held against you by a dominant ethnicity?


Hey, your attitude isn't anything that would suprise Stanley Milgram's post ww2 experiments on social obedience. Can you guess how the population of post-ww2 Germany caused him to delve into such a topic?

 

[Shogun]

Kudos to you Shogun

An american citizen who's able to see through the barrage of indoctrination that prevails in America and denounce the immoral nature of the israeli state.

America being a country so full of super patriotic clowns, it’s always a pleasure to find someone who is not afraid to call racism racism.

Thanks.. but, just to be clear, I'm not calling for the destruction of Israel. Nor and I assuming that all jews in Israel feel the same way as those who would kill Rabin for shaking Arafat's hand. I think that the desire for a nation is so strong for the zioniists that they willingly set aside the standard by which they judge iraq, native americans, the holocaust etc, and let their desire for a state supercede their sense of ethnic/humanitarian fairness.


and, consequently, basing such on ethnicty is racism that WE would not stomach in America.

 

[M14 Shooter]

id say building an apartheied wall and rubbing out pal homes and wantonly bombing building and killing kids for the sake of one hammas leader counts pretty fucking loudly.

I'm sorry - is this a response to my post, asking how many of those links describe events where he Israelis deniy equal rights to Israeli citizens?
If so, you didnt asnwer the question.

would YOU want to live in Israel as a pal? You know.. raise a family and have a home there? Feel consident that your ethnicity would not be held against you by a dominant ethnicity?

You are living as a non-citizen in a foerign country -- what do you expect?
The palestinians are Jordanians living in land that Jordan lost on a war. if they want to live in their own country, all they need to is cross the border...

 

[Shogun]

I'm sorry - is this a response to my post, asking how many of those links describe events where he Israelis deniy equal rights to Israeli citizens?
If so, you didnt asnwer the question.


Would you NOT consider it a denail of equal rights to be led around according to your ethnicity? Are you trying to invalidate pals who may not be OFFICIAL israeli citizens? hehehehe... uh, because that's a LOT better! hehehehehe...


You are living as a non-citizen in a foerign country -- what do you expect?
The palestinians are Jordanians living in land that Jordan lost on a war. if they want to live in their own country, all they need to is cross the border...



uh, what do I expect? Consideration for my common humanity? Say, where was the last bastion of illegals that the US bulldozed to make way for more Americans? Indeed, the worlds jews can all gather in israel and qualify as legitimate jews... but let ONE pal get caught without a DNA sample from his great, great, great, great,great, great, great ottoman subject grandfather and all of a sudden they JUST DONT COUNT.

Indeed, what makes me pretty sure what your reaction would be to the same callous disregard of humanity if it were germans telling jews the same damn thing? Or, iranians, for that matter. Must be what that whole CHOSEN thing is all about.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Would you NOT consider it a denail of equal rights to be led around according to your ethnicity?

If it were a matter of the government acting against its citizens, then yes.
Your avoidance of my question indicates that this is not the case.

Are you trying to invalidate pals who may not be OFFICIAL israeli citizens? hehehehe... uh, because that's a LOT better! hehehehehe...

Its very rare for a country to afford non-citizens the same rights as citizens -- in fact, I dont know of any country (where the citizns have rights) that affords non-citizens the same rights as citizens.
So, citizenship makes a HUGE difference.

uh, what do I expect? Consideration for my common humanity?

Says the person that blows up school buses because he hates Jews...

The Palestinians arent Israeli citizens. Lamenting the fact that, while they live in Israel, they do not have the same rights as Israelis is no dfferent than lamenting the fact that Palestinans living in the US do not have the same rights as Americans.