History of Israel/Palestine and the Jewish Presence in Israel/Palestine

[GHook93]

2200BC - Canaanites Period - Abraham in Land of Canaan. Egypt conquers and enslaves the Jewish People.

1200 BC - Israelites take the scene after the exodus from Egypt.
During the conquest of Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

1000 - 586 BC: Jewish Rule: in Land of Israel and Judah

722-586 BC: Assyrian Rule: Assyrians conquer Israel; Most Jews flee to the other Jewish Kingdom of Judah

586 - 539 BC: Babylonian Rule: Babylonians Conquer the 2nd Jewish kingdom (Judah) - Destroy the 1st temple and expel the Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah

539 - 333 BC: Persian Rule, with nearly automous Jewish soverignty - Cyrus the Great conquered the Babylonians and let the Jews return to Israel and Judah. The 2nd temple was build and the Jews were free to practice their religion. Jews were self-rule as a satrapie of Persia

333-165 BC: Greek Rule - Alexander the Great conquered Israel, but the Israelites maintain semi self-rule

165-63 BC: Jewish Golden Era - The Maccabean Revolt freed the Jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Roman_history_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

63 BC - 333 AD: Roman Era:
This is the most critical time in the history of Israel and the for the Jews. The events in this era lead to the excile of the Jews, mainly throughout Europe, Russia and the Middle East (hence the reason the pre-1900 why there were so many Jews is Europe and Russia) and the mass extermination of Jews. It has been estimated that 2-2.5 million Jews were killed during this time. I saw a special on the history channel a while back that it the Roman-Jewish wars never happened that there could have been 200-300 million Jews in the world today.
63 BC - 4 AD: Herod the Great Rule (Jewish King) - The Jews ruled Israel (Judea) as as a a Roman Client King. They Jews had semi-automny.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great
6 AD - 66 A: After Herod's death the Romans tightened their rule by establishing a Roman Procurator (Roman overlord) - who collected taxes.
66 AD The First Great Jewish Revolt! The Jews revolted against the Procurator placing a Pagan Statute on top of the 2nd Great Temple. It was disastrous for the Jews. 600,000-1,300,00 were killed. The first Jewish Dispora throughout the Middle East, Europe and Russia occurred. The 2nd Temple was destroyed. The Jews official lost their State.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish-Roman_War
70 AD - 132 AD: The Jews slowly came back to Israel
132 AD: The 2nd Jewish Revolt started and was successful in expelling the Romans
132 - 134 AD: Jewish Independent Israel
135 AD: Roman took their revenge and brutally destroyed the revolt. 580K Jews were killed. The remaining ones were further exciled throughout Europe, M.E. and Russia. More salt on the wounds the Romans changed name of Israel/Judea to Palestina (later Palestine) after the Israelite's long extinct enemy the Philistines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba%27s_revolt
135-330 Rome Rule - Jews were completely exciled

330 AD - 614 AD: Byzantine Rule:
Jews were allowed to return and returned in numbers. There were occassional revolts, but the numbers increased.

614 - 619 AD: Jewish Rule. After an alliance with the Persians the Jews and Persians took Palestina.

617 - 625 AD: Persian Rule - Persian took Palestina as a colony, but Jews remained

625 - 638 AD: Byzantine Rule - The Jews feeling betrayed by the Persian signed an alliance with the Byzantines in exchange for amnesty. After the Jews help the Byzantines expell the Persians, the Byzantines attacked the Jews killing many and exciling even more to Europe, Russian and the M.E.

638 - 1099 AD: Muslim Rule - Arab Crusades - The newly found Islamic religion went on a quest to rule the world. Look at all the places that the Arab Crusades hit (except Spain - because of the inquisition) and you will see a predominate Muslim country. However, the Jews were not exciled. At times they were presecuted, but they were able to remain and set up Jewish villages and communities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummayad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid

1099 - 1187 AD: Christian European Rule - The first crusade lead to the killing of nearly every Muslim, Jew and even Christian in Jerusalem. Mass-killings of Jews throughout Palestine and evern Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crusades

1187 - 1244 AD: Muslim Rule - Saladin conquered Jerusalem in 1187 and the rest Palestina by 1244
1244 - 1517 AD: Muslim Rule:

The Mamluks destroyed all towns on the flat coastal plains in order to rid the land of the Crusader presence and make sure it never returned. The main exceptions were Jaffa, Gaza, Lydda and Ramle. As a result of this, most trade with the west was curtailed. Due to the many earthquakes, the religious extremism and the black plague that hit during this era, the population dwindled to around 200,000 souls. It is during this period that the land began to have an indigenous Levantine Muslim majority and even in the traditional Jewish stronghold of Eastern Galilee, a new Jewish-Muslim culture began to develop.

1517-1919 AD: Turkish Rule

In 1516 the Ottoman Turks occupied Palestine. The country became part of the Ottoman Empire. Constantinople appointed local governors. Public works, including the city walls, were rebuilt in Jerusalem by Suleiman the Magnificent in 1537. An area around Tiberias was given to Don Joseph HaNasi for a Jewish enclave. Following the expulsions from Spain, the Jewish population of Palestine rose to around 25% (includes non-Ottoman citizens, excludes Bedouin) and regained its former stronghold of Eastern Galilee. That ended in 1660 when they were massacred at Safed and Jerusalem. During the reign of Dahar al Omar, Pasha of the Galilee, Jews from Ukraine began to resettle Tiberias.

Jewish immigration to Palestine, particularly to the "four sacred cities" (Jerusalem, Safed, Tiberias and Hebron) which already had significant Jewish communities, increased particularly towards the end of Ottoman rule

1917 - 1948: British Rule:
The British Manddate promised the lands to both the Palestinian Arab inhabitants and Jews in a parition plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

1948 - Present: Jewish Rule
The Parition Plan was accepted by the Jews, but not the Arabs and War broke out in 1948-1949. With Egypt ruling over Gaza and Jordon ruling over West Bank. Although both countries had the power to grant the Palestinians an independent state, they never did. Then in the '67 after the six day war Israel acquired Gaza and the West Bank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

 

[Shogun]

I tellya..


nothing says historic primary source QUITE LIKE a jewish old testement!




gosh.. I wonder what Mein Komph has to say about german superiority...


Indeed, burning bush legends TOTALLY validate the total marginalization of the pals in 48! If only ole Andy Jackson had a burning bush to pretend was the mouth of a god who authorised the sacking of North Americas land of milk and honey..

 

[Ruby]

2200BC - Canaanites Period - Abraham in Land of Canaan. Egypt conquers and enslaves the Jewish People.

1200 BC - Israelites take the scene after the exodus from Egypt.
During the conquest of Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

1000 - 586 BC: Jewish Rule: in Land of Israel and Judah

722-586 BC: Assyrian Rule: Assyrians conquer Israel; Most Jews flee to the other Jewish Kingdom of Judah

586 - 539 BC: Babylonian Rule: Babylonians Conquer the 2nd Jewish kingdom (Judah) - Destroy the 1st temple and expel the Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah

539 - 333 BC: Persian Rule, with nearly automous Jewish soverignty - Cyrus the Great conquered the Babylonians and let the Jews return to Israel and Judah. The 2nd temple was build and the Jews were free to practice their religion. Jews were self-rule as a satrapie of Persia

333-165 BC: Greek Rule - Alexander the Great conquered Israel, but the Israelites maintain semi self-rule

165-63 BC: Jewish Golden Era - The Maccabean Revolt freed the Jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Roman_history_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah

63 BC - 333 AD: Roman Era:
This is the most critical time in the history of Israel and the for the Jews. The events in this era lead to the excile of the Jews, mainly throughout Europe, Russia and the Middle East (hence the reason the pre-1900 why there were so many Jews is Europe and Russia) and the mass extermination of Jews. It has been estimated that 2-2.5 million Jews were killed during this time. I saw a special on the history channel a while back that it the Roman-Jewish wars never happened that there could have been 200-300 million Jews in the world today.
63 BC - 4 AD: Herod the Great Rule (Jewish King) - The Jews ruled Israel (Judea) as as a a Roman Client King. They Jews had semi-automny.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great
6 AD - 66 A: After Herod's death the Romans tightened their rule by establishing a Roman Procurator (Roman overlord) - who collected taxes.
66 AD The First Great Jewish Revolt! The Jews revolted against the Procurator placing a Pagan Statute on top of the 2nd Great Temple. It was disastrous for the Jews. 600,000-1,300,00 were killed. The first Jewish Dispora throughout the Middle East, Europe and Russia occurred. The 2nd Temple was destroyed. The Jews official lost their State.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish-Roman_War
70 AD - 132 AD: The Jews slowly came back to Israel
132 AD: The 2nd Jewish Revolt started and was successful in expelling the Romans
132 - 134 AD: Jewish Independent Israel
135 AD: Roman took their revenge and brutally destroyed the revolt. 580K Jews were killed. The remaining ones were further exciled throughout Europe, M.E. and Russia. More salt on the wounds the Romans changed name of Israel/Judea to Palestina (later Palestine) after the Israelite's long extinct enemy the Philistines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba%27s_revolt
135-330 Rome Rule - Jews were completely exciled

330 AD - 614 AD: Byzantine Rule:
Jews were allowed to return and returned in numbers. There were occassional revolts, but the numbers increased.

614 - 619 AD: Jewish Rule. After an alliance with the Persians the Jews and Persians took Palestina.

617 - 625 AD: Persian Rule - Persian took Palestina as a colony, but Jews remained

625 - 638 AD: Byzantine Rule - The Jews feeling betrayed by the Persian signed an alliance with the Byzantines in exchange for amnesty. After the Jews help the Byzantines expell the Persians, the Byzantines attacked the Jews killing many and exciling even more to Europe, Russian and the M.E.

638 - 1099 AD: Muslim Rule - Arab Crusades - The newly found Islamic religion went on a quest to rule the world. Look at all the places that the Arab Crusades hit (except Spain - because of the inquisition) and you will see a predominate Muslim country. However, the Jews were not exciled. At times they were presecuted, but they were able to remain and set up Jewish villages and communities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummayad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid

1099 - 1187 AD: Christian European Rule - The first crusade lead to the killing of nearly every Muslim, Jew and even Christian in Jerusalem. Mass-killings of Jews throughout Palestine and evern Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crusades

1187 - 1244 AD: Muslim Rule - Saladin conquered Jerusalem in 1187 and the rest Palestina by 1244
1244 - 1517 AD: Muslim Rule:


1517-1919 AD: Turkish Rule




1917 - 1948: British Rule:
The British Manddate promised the lands to both the Palestinian Arab inhabitants and Jews in a parition plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine

1948 - Present: Jewish Rule
The Parition Plan was accepted by the Jews, but not the Arabs and War broke out in 1948-1949. With Egypt ruling over Gaza and Jordon ruling over West Bank. Although both countries had the power to grant the Palestinians an independent state, they never did. Then in the '67 after the six day war Israel acquired Gaza and the West Bank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Land_of_Israel

First of all, how lovely that you chose wikipedia for your ONE source and why do you think they trump the ISRAELI govt documents that prove otherwise.

Secondly, the european jews are not descended from that area, they descend from europe.

They dont have to be an independent state according to our rules...any political community and entity is regarded as a nation and a cohesive culture. They have rights both as individuals and as a community.

The population before the mass exodus was mostly non jewish BUT those jews who DID live there and had been living there were members of the palestinian community since RELIGION was not the determining factor for being palestinian. The problems started when the mass immigration flooded in with plans to expel the current residents and make a JEWISH homeland and thereby getting rid of the palestinians.

Why should palestinians accept their own demise? Its a ridiculous thing to ask of them and no one in their right mind would EXPECT them to say yes.

http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/jewsfjustice.cfm

Were the early Zionists planning on living side-by-side with the Arabs?

In 1919, the American King-crane Commission spent six weeks in Syria and Palestine, interviewing delegations and reading petitions. Their report stated,"The commissioners began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in it favour… The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission’s conferences with Jewish representatives that the Zionists looked forward to practically complete dispossession of the present non- Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase…

"If [the] principle [of self-determination] is to rule, and so the wishes of Palestine’s population are to be decisive as to what is to be done with Palestine, then it is to be remembered that the non-Jewish population of Palestine – nearly nine-tenths of the whole- are emphatically against the entire Zionist program…To subject a people so minded to unlimited Jewish immigration, and to steady financial and social pressure to surrender the land, would be a gross violation of the principle just quoted …No British officers, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist program could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than fifty thousand soldiers would be required even to initiate the program. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist program… The initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a ‘right’ to Palestine based on occupation of two thousand years ago, can barely be seriously considered."

I think that sums it up. There was a minority of Jewish people there and they had the same rights palestinians had...rights were not doled out based on religion (as they are now since israel was created). What was WRONG was that their self determination was denied and a campaign of genocide was started by the zionists so that they take over the lands and make it a JEWISH homeland instead of a homeland for all those that actually lived there.

Citing there has been jewish presence in the area throughout history is NO solid basis on which to say that european jews have a RIGHT to displace the palestinians who have lived there since the 7th century.

Its RIDICULOUS. Just because europeans have adopted religions or parts of other regions cultures dosent give them the right to go claim the lands as their own and drive out the natives by force and via violence and genocide.

 

[Ruby]

I tellya..


nothing says historic primary source QUITE LIKE a jewish old testement!




gosh.. I wonder what Mein Komph has to say about german superiority...


Indeed, burning bush legends TOTALLY validate the total marginalization of the pals in 48! If only ole Andy Jackson had a burning bush to pretend was the mouth of a god who authorised the sacking of North Americas land of milk and honey..

It really was a bunch of religious lore he seems to rely on as his proof. Nevermind the actual govt records, the military leaders papers and communications...nevermind the PUBLIC statements made by the zionists themselves. NO, ancient religious texts are what should guide us instead....nevermind the actual evidence to the contrary.

Insane the lengths people will go to in order to defend horrific human rights abuses and genocide.

 

[Shogun]

hey..

as long as we treat muslims like zealots when they insist on validating behaviour with the dogma of the koran and let jews and christians off the hook...






funny how the room got real quiet when the andy jackson quotes appeared..

 

[GHook93]

I tellya..


nothing says historic primary source QUITE LIKE a jewish old testement!




gosh.. I wonder what Mein Komph has to say about german superiority...


Indeed, burning bush legends TOTALLY validate the total marginalization of the pals in 48! If only ole Andy Jackson had a burning bush to pretend was the mouth of a god who authorised the sacking of North Americas land of milk and honey..

Hey smart guy a lot of the information has been validated through non-religious documents and artifacts. Try taking your head out of your ass for once!

 

[Shogun]

Hey smart guy a lot of the information has been validated through non-religious documents and artifacts. Try taking your head out of your ass for once!

then post your evidence beyond the jewish old testement. claiming that "alot of stuff has been blah blah blah" just isnt as impressive as posting a non-biased source, ya cock mongoloid. Try taking you head out of the zionist clockwork orange video marathon. Sorry, jewish fairy tales just don't cut it.

after all... youd be calling a muslm touting HIS dogma as fact a goddamn crazy zealot evil bastard...


but hey.. as long as this kind of shit only works one way and all...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The UN approved of and endorsed the creation of Israel. I wonder why, when the UN does anything now adays it is good and right according to you Jew haters? The Palestinians had the right to create their own state as well, in fact they would have had a bigger slice and a more defensable slice as well. They chose NOT to. The Arab nations invaded to destroy Israel, not to create a new Arab state but to divide the land up amongst the nations already there.

Further they ordered the Arabs out with a threat of murder if they did not leave. The Arab States also kept the so called refugees in squalid camps for 60 years rather then allow them to assimilate into their countries, most of them booted them out completely before 1990 because they were a direct threat to the Governments of those countries. Lebanon was in the throes of a civil war so never had the where with all to boot them out, and they are still paying for that mistake.

 

[GHook93]

First of all, how lovely that you chose wikipedia for your ONE source and why do you think they trump the ISRAELI govt documents that prove otherwise.

Wikipedia is fine source, which provides and require a reliable source for to going along with what the author is claiming. Besides much of this comes from my studies of ancient Israel from books, but you can't quote those with creditability over the internet.

And don't just quote a blanket countering source without going into specifics. That is dishonest.

Note: Don't attack wikipedia when you quote off of znet. The crazy far far leftist website of which the Noam Chomsky can spew his propaganda.

Secondly, the european jews are not descended from that area, they descend from europe.

Proof of your lies? The reason the very very very Jews are converts is because it's not a predatory religion and in fact makes it very difficult to convert. The reason many of the Jews have been scatter throughout Europe and the Middle East (before the Arabs expelled them that is) is because of the disporas by the Babloyian, Roman (especially them), Byzantines and later the Arabs. Your lies uncover your bias

The population before the mass exodus was mostly non jewish BUT those jews who DID live there and had been living there were members of the palestinian community

True, but that had been persecuted many times even before zionism was a known entity.

since RELIGION was not the determining factor for being palestinian.

Yet look at Palestine and the Palestinian people it is 95% Muslim (Sunni Muslim that is) and they are direct decendents of the Arab MUSLIM crusaders. I think religion has a lot to do with who the Palestinians are. Hamas rhetoric usually has Allah involved.

The problems started when the mass immigration flooded in with plans to expel the current residents and make a JEWISH homeland and thereby getting rid of the palestinians.

No the problem started with the Roman conquest and the Jewish Revolts. Maybe the Jews should have just succumb to the Romans and waited the Roman empire out.

Why should palestinians accept their own demise? Its a ridiculous thing to ask of them and no one in their right mind would EXPECT them to say yes.

You could direct that same question to the Jews and the Israelis!

 

[GHook93]

then post your evidence beyond the jewish old testement. claiming that "alot of stuff has been blah blah blah" just isnt as impressive as posting a non-biased source, ya cock mongoloid. Try taking you head out of the zionist clockwork orange video marathon. Sorry, jewish fairy tales just don't cut it.

after all... youd be calling a muslm touting HIS dogma as fact a goddamn crazy zealot evil bastard...


but hey.. as long as this kind of shit only works one way and all...

The parting of the red sea, the plagues are folklore, which I don't believe it. In fact I don't believe in religion or god. I believe in what science can tell me.

There are ancient Jews artifacts and documents beyond the bible that lay proof to the Israel conquest of Canaan. The Jewish kingdoms of 1000-586 BC are documented. Cyrus the Greats and Alexander the Great's conquests are also well document. For the Roman period you have the Western wall and Mazada.

I agree the folklore and religion are non-creditable sources, but I was quoting history.


And please show alittle bit of respect and I will do the same. You can disagree with out the personal and racist attacks!

 

[doniston]

Wikipedia is fine source, which provides and require a reliable source for to going along with what the author is claiming. Besides much of this comes from my studies of ancient Israel from books, but you can't quote those with creditability over the internet.


Yet look at Palestine and the Palestinian people it is 95% Muslim

I think that sums it up. There was a minority of Jewish people there and they had the same rights palestinians had...rights were not doled out based on religion (as they are now since israel was created). What was WRONG was that their self determination was denied and a campaign of genocide was started by the zionists so that they take over the lands and make it a JEWISH homeland instead of a homeland for all those that actually lived there.

Citing there has been jewish presence in the area throughout history is NO solid basis on which to say that european jews have a RIGHT to displace the palestinians who have lived there since the 7th century.

Its RIDICULOUS. Just because europeans have adopted religions or parts of other regions cultures dosent give them the right to go claim the lands as their own and drive out the natives by force and via violence and genocide.

1. Winpeka is garbage and a collection of personal opinions which can be changed by the next passerby.

2. I agree with most of the rest.

 

[Shogun]

The parting of the red sea, the plagues are folklore, which I don't believe it. In fact I don't believe in religion or god. I believe in what science can tell me.
There are ancient Jews artifacts and documents beyond the bible that lay proof to the Israel conquest of Canaan. The Jewish kingdoms of 1000-586 BC are documented. Cyrus the Greats and Alexander the Great's conquests are also well document. For the Roman period you have the Western wall and Mazada.
I agree the folklore and religion are non-creditable sources, but I was quoting history.
And please show alittle bit of respect and I will do the same. You can disagree with out the personal and racist attacks!

say it with me:

CONQUEST OF CANAAN.

rings a bell, doesnt it? But, I digress. Are you suggesting that pals and other muslims dont ALSO have just as rich of a history in the same land? Ancient artifacts don't give you a right to move in and claim your ancient civilization just like the latino hisotry in California wont validate ATZLAN.


Racist, eh?

typical. go ahead. get it out of your system. apply the standard issue label and get it over with.


*sigh*


CONQUEST. despite the lands rich history of muslims, no less. I guess the canaanites probably just hated jews too when the fought back.


indeed.. why again are the WORLDS population of jews acceptaed as such while we get to letigiously wittle pals down according to whatever works better for Israel?

 

[GHook93]

say it with me:

CONQUEST OF CANAAN.

rings a bell, doesnt it? But, I digress.

The conquest went both ways. The Israelites settled in areas and were attacked by other clans as they tried to take the lands. Canaan at the time was an unsettled land by various city states. You definitely should digress.

Are you suggesting that pals and other muslims dont ALSO have just as rich of a history in the same land? Ancient artifacts don't give you a right to move in and claim your ancient civilization just like the latino hisotry in California wont validate ATZLAN.

Absolutely not! I have stated already that I think the only just solution is 2 separate independent states. The Pals have a just and righteous claim, just as the Israelis/Jews have.

Racist, eh?

I love how you talk about racism, but then make ignorant comments about Jews baking in the oven.

indeed.. why again are the WORLDS population of jews acceptaed as such while we get to letigiously wittle pals down according to whatever works better for Israel?

Que?

 

[Ruby]

Wikipedia is fine source, which provides and require a reliable source for to going along with what the author is claiming. Besides much of this comes from my studies of ancient Israel from books, but you can't quote those with creditability over the internet.

And don't just quote a blanket countering source without going into specifics. That is dishonest.

Note: Don't attack wikipedia when you quote off of znet. The crazy far far leftist website of which the Noam Chomsky can spew his propaganda.

Your wikipedia links were all about RELIGOUS history and beliefs...no way is that going to pass for a debate on a POLITICAL issue of today.

You want to trot out ancient religious history as some sort of basis and its far to ridiculous. It only takes one statement to deal with it...its religious doctrine and therefore has no place in the discussion.

Proof of your lies? The reason the very very very Jews are converts is because it's not a predatory religion and in fact makes it very difficult to convert. The reason many of the Jews have been scatter throughout Europe and the Middle East (before the Arabs expelled them that is) is because of the disporas by the Babloyian, Roman (especially them), Byzantines and later the Arabs. Your lies uncover your bias

The creation of Israel was done by mass emmigrating EUROPEANS, thats the proof. They came from EUROPE and the jewish religion made it into europe just as christianity has and islam has. Just because they share a religion that was born in the middle east dosent mean they themselves are some ancestors of the jews who lived in the middle east in ancient times AND even if they did, it would not give them a right to make claims on the area now, especially since it means committing genocide against an entire community to do it.

True, but that had been persecuted many times even before zionism was a known entity.

Yep persecution is wrong, but its not only happened to Jews. I doubt we are going to give every group thats been persectued some "take a nation of your choice and genocide the current residents for free" card are we?

Yet look at Palestine and the Palestinian people it is 95% Muslim (Sunni Muslim that is) and they are direct decendents of the Arab MUSLIM crusaders. I think religion has a lot to do with who the Palestinians are. Hamas rhetoric usually has Allah involved.

Thats just stupid, I dont care who they descend from. They have been living there since the 7th century and are a nation and deserved to continue being one and shouldnt be targeted for theft and genocide because Jews want their own homeland and are the victims of crimes in EUROPE. Make Germany give the Jews a homeland, they committed the crimes.

No the problem started with the Roman conquest and the Jewish Revolts. Maybe the Jews should have just succumb to the Romans and waited the Roman empire out.

Bullshit, you are trying to go back to ancient history to justify a current genocide, it isnt going to work. The problem started when the zionists decided they were going to genocide a nation of people so they could take their land.

You could direct that same question to the Jews and the Israelis!

No, I would like to ask the Israelis if they really valued their lives then why do they start a genocidal campaign against palestinians who will be forced to defend themselves. Why not assert their rights in their own homelands or why not make the ACTUAL PERPETRATORS of the crime against them to bare the burden of giving up land for their homeland.

 

[Ruby]

The UN approved of and endorsed the creation of Israel. I wonder why, when the UN does anything now adays it is good and right according to you Jew haters? The Palestinians had the right to create their own state as well, in fact they would have had a bigger slice and a more defensable slice as well. They chose NOT to. The Arab nations invaded to destroy Israel, not to create a new Arab state but to divide the land up amongst the nations already there.

Further they ordered the Arabs out with a threat of murder if they did not leave. The Arab States also kept the so called refugees in squalid camps for 60 years rather then allow them to assimilate into their countries, most of them booted them out completely before 1990 because they were a direct threat to the Governments of those countries. Lebanon was in the throes of a civil war so never had the where with all to boot them out, and they are still paying for that mistake.

The UN approved many things it shouldnt..its not a DEMOCRATIC nor a fair organization and is manipulated by the more powerful nations.

Of course it also TOOK some bullying to get the UN to pass it.

http://www.mideastweb.org/us_supportforstate.htm

The partition resolution required a 2/3 majority to pass, and it became evident that due to Arab pressure and resistance to the US by third-world countries, it might not pass. On November 25, a Tuesday, UN General Assembly members, acting as an ad hoc committee on Palestine, voted. The partition resolution passed the "committee" vote, twenty-five to thirteen with seventeen abstentions. However, this vote was one one short of the 2/3 majority that would be needed to pass the General Assembly itself.

The vote was postponed from Wednesday, giving the lobbyists Thursday, the Thanksgiving holiday, to change votes. The Arab countries exerted pressure against partition. Pressure from Zionists, US officials and former officials was brought to bear on countries that were intending to vote against partition. Greece was threatened with loss of foreign aid. Apparently on the prompting of former Secretary of State Stettinus, tire manufacturer Harvey Firestone threatened Liberia with a rubber embargo. Paraguay, the Philippines, Haiti and other countries reversed their positions and voted for partition.

Its obvious that it had nothing to do with what was right. It had to do with the fact that the US and Britain didnt want to deal with the jews who were in need due to Germanys genocide against them AND they could get rid of those jews AS well as use them to establish a foothold in the middle east.

The only people that had a LEGITIMATE right to make the decision would be the people who actually lived on that land and were the current community...and they were NOT listened to and of course they just didnt have much power.

 

[Ruby]

The conquest went both ways. The Israelites settled in areas and were attacked by other clans as they tried to take the lands. Canaan at the time was an unsettled land by various city states. You definitely should digress.

All this ANCIENT history really dosent mean much since its not a basis for a claim to the land for a bunch of european jews, just like it isnt a basis for a claim to the land by a bunch of euro christians.

Absolutely not! I have stated already that I think the only just solution is 2 separate independent states. The Pals have a just and righteous claim, just as the Israelis/Jews have.

Really? Then why no outcry over Israels CONSTANT expanding of settlements and continuing to take more and more land from Palestinains for "jews only" roads and "jews only settlements" as well as the "security wall". It seems to me that Israel continuing to take more and more land and creating a situation where there isnt any real land left to create a nation from is an OBVIOUS genocidal move that seeks to destroy the palestinian people as a nation, culture and group permantly.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The UN approved of and endorsed the creation of Israel. I wonder why, when the UN does anything now adays it is good and right according to you Jew haters? The Palestinians had the right to create their own state as well, in fact they would have had a bigger slice and a more defensable slice as well. They chose NOT to. The Arab nations invaded to destroy Israel, not to create a new Arab state but to divide the land up amongst the nations already there.

Every state in the ME was created by Europeans with a map and a pen.

As such, all of them have an equal degree of legitimacy, an equal claim to sovereignty, and an equal right to self-defense.

If ONE of these countries doesnt have a right to exist because it was "plopped down" through various international agreements, then NONE of them have a right to exist.

 

[Shogun]

hehehe..
what retarded bullshit.

I swear, dude. people like you, who were german, were the exact reason that nation let jews taste xylon B. It's crazy how far people like you will go to totally disregard pals for the sake of a state for the new master race.

 

[Shogun]

The conquest went both ways. The Israelites settled in areas and were attacked by other clans as they tried to take the lands. Canaan at the time was an unsettled land by various city states. You definitely should digress.



oh yea.. notce how it's ALWAYS someone else who started shit with poor lil israel.. don't see a pattern here, do you? of COURSE not. Yea, of COURSE it was unsettled! it only had a national identity and people to fight BACK! who, of course, were antisemites everyone because they're jew hatred made them defend their homeland that a roving horde of jews decided to conquer.

Indeed, lets play the OT game, dude. Feel free to sic a few she-bears at me when you get tired of hitting the antisemite button.


Absolutely not! I have stated already that I think the only just solution is 2 separate independent states. The Pals have a just and righteous claim, just as the Israelis/Jews have.

old borders or the modern mainman "fuck em, they lost" borders? it makes a HUGE difference.


I love how you talk about racism, but then make ignorant comments about Jews baking in the oven.

Is the referance historically wrong? Perhaps yo ushould admit that you dont think a dirty goyim should be as familiar with the holocaust as one of the chosen instead of assuming that I want jews baked in an oven... Making referances that are accurate to make a point isnt racism.. but don't let that stop you from calling me a jew hating antisemite.



Que?[/QUOTE]



Jews can immigrate into Israel from any place on the globe and count as legitimate... Meanwhile, every zionist on the board takes every extra step to rationalize AWAY the legitimacy of pals who, regardless of not having a common flag or wearing shoes (native reference, before you start in with the labels), have LIVED there before the creation of israel. some say they are arabs, some say that ottoman turks sold the land out from under them. some say that they DESERVE what they get (lookin at you, mainman), some say they have no historic claim like the jews do. Again, MEANWHILE jews from the US, Europe, Lebenon, or ANY other country not only get to come back and count but also get superior treatment over those who get to pay the price of a new jewish state.

Thats what's que.

 

[M14 Shooter]

All this ANCIENT history really dosent mean much since its not a basis for a claim to the land for a bunch of european jews, just like it isnt a basis for a claim to the land by a bunch of euro christians.

If "homeland" is the bases of the Palestinian argument, then history begins before 1948. How far back do YOU think is OK to look?

Then why no outcry over Israels CONSTANT expanding of settlements and continuing to take more and more land from Palestinains for "jews only" roads and "jews only settlements" as well as the "security wall".

Why would there be an outcry over Israelis moving into and settling Israeli land?
Why would there be an issue with Israel putting up a wall to keep terrorists out?

It seems to me that Israel continuing to take more and more land and creating a situation where there isnt any real land left to create a nation...

Perhaps the Palestinians should have thought of that a little more over the last 40 years, rather than trying to realize their dream of the total destruction of Israel.

from is an OBVIOUS genocidal move that seeks to destroy the palestinian people as a nation, culture and group permantly

There are zillions of Palestinians in Jordan, which was the "Palestinian state" prior to 1967. If you are truly worried about the (non-existent) genocide of the Palestinians, why don't you suggest they go back to their original country?