What are people thinking as they hear the Senate arguments?

[Dogmaphobe]

As usual, Dogmaphobe ....

You’re completely wrong

and ...

You’re Just an Asshole

You see -- you can certianly learn the language and develop an ability to write it with quite reasonable aplomb, but it's your lack of knowledge of these little aspects of American culture that betrays you.

 

[Polishprince]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

Is there any EVIDENCE or TESTIMONY being given in the trial, or only "arguments"?

Arguments are fine in their place, I guess.

But unless the Persecution actually presents evidence , how can even a lib assert that guilt was proven beyond a reasonable doubt?

 

[Polishprince]

The fact that this entire forum is very quiet shows that the Trumpers have zero case.

Its not up to Trump to prove innocence, its up to the House Managers to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

I’m sure, Dogmaphobe ...

“what you were thinking about while you (didn’t) watch the Senate arguments” ... was how to slander fellow Americans.

How very “American” of you !

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I’m sure, Dogmaphobe ...

“what you were thinking about while you (didn’t) watch the Senate arguments” was how ... to slander fellow Americans.

How very “American” of you !

You could always try acting like a stand-up American, instead, by replying to me directy.

I have certainly slandered no Americans here.

 

[Lastamender]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

Those institutions are treating us like crap.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The sham trial just shows how rabid the communists are and why they should never be forgiven nor what they do forgotten. They need to be punished. Severely and unendingly.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

Is there any EVIDENCE or TESTIMONY being given in the trial, or only "arguments"?

Arguments are fine in their place, I guess.

But unless the Persecution actually presents evidence , how can even a lib assert that guilt was proven beyond a reasonable doubt?

There is only melodrama from emotionally manipulative dems using fake tears to talk about how scared they were when the seige happened---------

All evidence is oddly missing--just emotional spinning.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The fact that this entire forum is very quiet shows that the Trumpers have zero case.

Its not up to Trump to prove innocence, its up to the House Managers to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

This is not a criminal trial. This is a political trial. Guilt or innocence is not at issue. Political will is the only determining factor.

 

[Synthaholic]

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex,

Bill Clinton was impeached for the crimes of perjury and obstruction of justice. That you pretend that is ridiculous, is you revealing you are not a serious or honest person.

Why was he testifying under oath?

Because of an accusation of sexual harassment.

Monica Lewinsky didn't accuse him of sexual harassment.

He bonked an underling on the oval office desk--------------in any corporation in america, Clinton would have been fired with charges likely filed against him while monica the willing ho---would be suing his company for a nice pay package.

My husband has a friend of his (I can't stand the guy) who bonked his young underling when he was a ceo of a major company-----which cost him both his marriage, the love his 3 daughters who till this day hate him, and his job---he is now just a station manager with another company and married to the one that he bonked. Willing or not---they are both gone from their jobs.

You didn't address my point. Why not?

 

[basquebromance]

So, basically, it took 4 hours to say "Trump's a dick".

 

[Batcat]

I find myself thinking how Nancy Pelosi is a vindictive old wet hen who is willing to waste the nation’s time and slow down much needed legislation in order to make Trump look Wors3 than he already does.

She is a prime example of what is wrong with Congress and when she finally leaves office this country may be a better place for all.

For some reason it seems most people in Congress are terrified of Nancy except AOC and her “Squad.”

 

[Doc7505]

it says in the constitution that impeachment is to be considered as an action to remove a sitting president AND prevent them from further office. The second clause is dependant on the first.

It doesn't say OR prevent a person from further office.

This is all a fraudulent dog and pony show, as impeachment was never meant to be an action taken against a private citizen

It seems a crime which has occurred during the time The President was in office, and s/he takes property from the White House, including documents marked "secret"; and keeps said documents when s/he leaves the office, shall that former President not be prosecuted for a high crimes and misdemeanors when that document has been sold to a foreign nation's agent.

BTW, as to what I am taking away from today's Senate Hearing, the Defense was a little more than two logical fallacies: Appeals to Emotion and Appeals to a Slippery Slope.

Boing - YouTube​

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Real rightwing populists don’t care about anything besides keeping their Trump voters riled up and on board.

What is clear now:

Our Founding Fathers did not create a system of representative democracy that can protect itself from what ever Trump is.

Trump has convinced a third of the voting public that he won an election that he beyond a shadow of a doubt lost; both in the popular vote and by the legal electoral vote.

Impeachment was intended to be a safeguard against a first term president who successfully convinces enough citizens, albeit a minority, to have more support and allegiance to his persona than the fundamental necessity as the consent to be governed in accordance with the rule of law.

We have dodged for now the death of our sacred Democratic Institution (Biden is President) but it was severely wounded on January 6.

TrumpQ could have pulled a violent rejection and reversal of a legitimate election that he lost if his compliant Party controlled the House and had sixty seats in the Senate.

Those alternate electors chosen by Trump supporters in states he lost could be seated and Trump wins a second term.

That is exactly what the January 6 riot and insurrection was all about.

That was too close for comfort and the Senators who know better are submitting to the will of the seventy million strong Trump mob of voters and his rioters.

They all are violating their oath of office to defend the Constitution against all enemies, specifically those from within.

That failure to honor their oath of office is a severe weakness in the system. The oath means nothing and from this point forward never will if what Trump did was not an impeachable offense.

We should not depend on luck if another Trump gets elected somehow and refuses to abide by our Democratic institutions unless he wins ... that’s not how it is supposed to work.

The first remedy I think is to protect the State certification of an election from the incumbent Party in the White House and Senate. Never allow an incumbent Party the opportunity to reject state certified results in order to reverse the will of the people in each state.

We dodged another bullet this time because Biden had a three state cushion and Georgia thankfully rejected Trump’s election meddling attempt.

Just think if Trump only need to flip a thousand votes in Georgia and the GOP officials their were willing to play ball.

The impeachment of Trump for his crime is absolutely necessary whether convicted or not. But it is not all that is needed.

This is serious enough that I hope the assembled coalition of decent white and non-white Americans plus the political and financial and moral support of the NEVERTRUMP Republicans stays together for a few more elections until Florida, Texas and Ohio go the way of Virginia and the way Georgia is going.

Then and only then can America’s be fully cleansed of the stench of the Trump MAGA mob and democracy can be secure in America for another 240 years at least.

never Trump never forget January 6 2021.

 

[Sunsettommy]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

Is there any EVIDENCE or TESTIMONY being given in the trial, or only "arguments"?

Arguments are fine in their place, I guess.

But unless the Persecution actually presents evidence , how can even a lib assert that guilt was proven beyond a reasonable doubt?

They offered a doctored video:

Democrats Present 'Doctored' Video of Capitol Riot During Trump Impeachment Trial

=====

Democrats getting dumber every year.

Meanwhile they continue to ignore the clear statement in the Constitution that Impeachment/Trial was for REMOVING someone from office, Trump has been out of office for 3 weeks now.

Then we have this to consider:

Constitutional Scholar Questions Constitutionality of Second Trump Impeachment

Excerpt:

“There are a whole lot of flaws or problems in that process that I think ultimately will derail it,” Natelson told me. “One of the hurdles they’ve got, it’s by no means clear you can impeach and convict somebody who’s no longer in office. If you turn to the founding era record, you find that all the times in which the Framers of the Constitution or the ratifiers of the Constitution talked about impeachment, it was always in terms of removing somebody from office. So you can’t point to anything that says they understood that we can use it after the president has left office. Then you go to the wording of the Constitution itself, and the wording of the Constitution seems to assume that the person being impeached is in office.”

======

Democrats are truly blowing this big time.

 

[Correll]

Trump's rise to political power and his administration was characterized by completely normal, mainstream policies supported by good, working class and middle class Americans.

After TrumpQ Incited the riot, called Pence a coward to fire up the worked up mob already inside the Capitol and said he loved the rioters who killed a cop, there is no “good” or “normal” or “mainstream” in any working class and middle class American who still has praise for TrumpQ and still believes his lies about the election he lost by seven million real mainstream good American voters who voted for Joe.

You connected a lot of dots there, without any support.

FOr example, Trump called Pence a coward. Ok fine. But then you assume that he was directing it to specific people, with a specific intent, without any support.


That is bullshit. And such bullshit included in your list of justifications as valid, reveals that you are just a partisan hack and none of your list has any credibility.



My point about Trump's policies and support being mainstream and normal stands.

You are ginning up hysteria and panic in order do justify dismissing and marginalizing people that you don't like.

 

[Claudette]

it says in the constitution that impeachment is to be considered as an action to remove a sitting president AND prevent them from further office. The second clause is dependant on the first.

It doesn't say OR prevent a person from further office.

This is all a fraudulent dog and pony show, as impeachment was never meant to be an action taken against a private citizen

Yup. A big waste of time and tax dollars.

 

[Polishprince]

it says in the constitution that impeachment is to be considered as an action to remove a sitting president AND prevent them from further office. The second clause is dependant on the first.

It doesn't say OR prevent a person from further office.

This is all a fraudulent dog and pony show, as impeachment was never meant to be an action taken against a private citizen

Yup. A big waste of time and tax dollars.

Sure, but the time wasted on this rubbish is time that the liberal Senate won't have to tear down this country. And the result in the end will most likely be the Exoneration of President Donald J. Trump of all charges.

I'd love to see Trump arrive to hear the verdict read.

 

[TNHarley]

it says in the constitution that impeachment is to be considered as an action to remove a sitting president AND prevent them from further office. The second clause is dependant on the first.

It doesn't say OR prevent a person from further office.

This is all a fraudulent dog and pony show, as impeachment was never meant to be an action taken against a private citizen

Did you notice the "precedent" they used in the senate?
William Belknap. Thats who. The guy that got impeached and the Senate voted they didnt have the jurisdiction to convict a removed public servant.
You cant make this shit up
William W. Belknap - Wikipedia

 

[jknowgood]

I just listened to the Senate Trial Presentations and have a few thoughts. Others will disagree, even violently. Listen to my thoughts, and then I’ll listen to yours...

The “House Managers” just refuted what I thought were preposterous Republican arguments that the Constitution won’t even allow for a trial of impeached ex-president Trump. I come away more than ever impressed with the Constitutional importance of what is now at stake.

This is not a ridiculous impeachment over lying about sex, or a hearing over the tragedy in Benghazi. This is about taking a stand against an out-of-control lame-duck President who tried to keep himself in office. This trial is about dealing with an attack on our whole democratic electoral system, on the Capitol itself. It is about re-asserting the power of Congress to stand against a mad President.

I personally have sometimes dreamt of seeing the impeachment and conviction of Presidents (of both parties) who lied and led us into murderous and totally unnecessary overseas military adventures. Of course these impeachments never happened. Yet now in D.C., in the heartland of our Republic and “empire,” political marketing and “America First” demagogy has succeeded ... in dividing the minds and hearts of Americans ... rather than Iraqis, Russians or Chinese.

Many of our own obsessions as a nation led to Jan. 6th, and its shadow will lie over our Republic for a long time. I think if this Senate doesn’t make an example of our most dangerous and outrageous recent demagogue we will be guaranteeing further more serious political mob action and even coup adventures in the future.

This is not a “show trial.” Well, just perhaps it will go down in history as a “show trial” ... if our people and politicians treat it as one. If few Republicans rise to the occasion and do their duty, if Donald Trump is not repudiated in the most severe Constitutional manner possible, then we are “showing” that we treat our great Republic and its institutions as crap.

It’s our Republic ... if we can keep it.

I'll just put it the way Pelosi did when you loons took the capitol during the Kavanaugh hearings. Pelosi took up for them saying "it's the peoples house".