What about the precedent that the zionist ideology in Palestine sets for the rest of the world?

[Coyote]

There is anti-Arab discrimination and inequality of opportunities and rights, and those should be fought for the issues they are not as a tool in some widespread anti-Zionist propaganda campaign.

Propaganda campaign or san people fighting for basic human rights?

Sane people fighting for rights don't do it by demonizing an entire group and that is essentially what you are doing. You have seperated Jews into "Jews" (not sure exactly what that consists of) and "Zionists" which seems to be every Jew who immigrated to Israel. What you don't seem to realize is that this represents a great many diverse view points, cultures and backgrounds. AND many of those "Zionists" are among those who support Palestinian rights and a 2-state solution. When you demonize a group, then yes, that is propoganda in my view.

Sane people fighting for basic human rights are out there documenting abuses, going to court, finding SOLUTIONS, finding means of moving forward together and fixing those problems.

But, the zionist leaders are hateful and are racist at their core as one can see by the society they created. And any Arab expulsions of Jews were a direct result of zionism too, certainly the majority.

This really sounds more like talking points.

The society they created. Well, every society has it's pro's and con's. It can honestly be said is the most democratic nation in the Mid East. It provides equal opportunities to men and women both. Every citizen can vote. It has a good standard of living for that region. It's culture is vibrant, it's educational levels and literacy rate are far above it's neighbors. Arab Israeli's live better and are better educated then their counterparts elsewhere. As a society - they have enough insight to recognize when things might be going in the wrong direction, and try to remedy it. They are diverse. No nation is perfect.

Israel has lot going for it.

You are blaming the expulsion of the Jews on Zionists? That's bizarre. The only one's to blame were the rulers who did it.

 

[Hollie]

Movements like Zionism are HOW displaced nations organize and lobby for deals. There's a lot of work involved. And it takes leadership and PROCESS. The Kurds are advertising on American TV.. They HAVE leadership and organization. What are the Palestinians doing to ORGANIZE for nationhood?? Other than sucking down UN/Intl funding and pooping it away? When was the LAST Pali election or "central meeting"??

That is a good way to put it - excellant!

It is a juvenile way of looking at it. No land was 'available' and men from one continent giving land to other men from there, the land of others from another continent completely is ludicrous and thanks to Nuremberg, against international law.

Land ownership in the Ottoman Empire was a lot more complex then you seem to realize. It is often not clear who owned what after the dissolution of the empire. In addition, you have nomadic people's like the Beduoin who have ancestral territory but not "ownership". Now that is a group that has really suffered and been disenfranchised.

Much of the land, particularly in the early years was purchased: Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia As far as I know that is not illegal. This is not "men from one continent giving land to other men from there".

Where land was not purchased - where it was confiscated - then that is wrong.

The zionists used 3000 years of Jewish, not zionist, suffering for their land grab.

What exactly do you mean by that?

I would love for even one zionist to go read some actual history, compare it to what they have been taught, and then to check back to this forum after at least a few weeks.

I think everyone should read some history.

The land purchased was only about 7%. The rest of it was stolen.

BTW, land purchases do not remove that land from the country. It was still Palestinian land.

It was not Pal'istanian land. The land area was controlled by the Turks who relinquished all rights and title.

You're still confused about some "country of Pal'istan" which never
existed.

 

[Coyote]

Movements like Zionism are HOW displaced nations organize and lobby for deals. There's a lot of work involved. And it takes leadership and PROCESS. The Kurds are advertising on American TV.. They HAVE leadership and organization. What are the Palestinians doing to ORGANIZE for nationhood?? Other than sucking down UN/Intl funding and pooping it away? When was the LAST Pali election or "central meeting"??

That is a good way to put it - excellant!

It is a juvenile way of looking at it. No land was 'available' and men from one continent giving land to other men from there, the land of others from another continent completely is ludicrous and thanks to Nuremberg, against international law.

Land ownership in the Ottoman Empire was a lot more complex then you seem to realize. It is often not clear who owned what after the dissolution of the empire. In addition, you have nomadic people's like the Beduoin who have ancestral territory but not "ownership". Now that is a group that has really suffered and been disenfranchised.

Much of the land, particularly in the early years was purchased: Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia As far as I know that is not illegal. This is not "men from one continent giving land to other men from there".

Where land was not purchased - where it was confiscated - then that is wrong.

The zionists used 3000 years of Jewish, not zionist, suffering for their land grab.

What exactly do you mean by that?

I would love for even one zionist to go read some actual history, compare it to what they have been taught, and then to check back to this forum after at least a few weeks.

I think everyone should read some history.

The land purchased was only about 7%. The rest of it was stolen.

BTW, land purchases do not remove that land from the country. It was still Palestinian land.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

Quora posed an interesting question, and there was one good answer (that sourced it's claims). The question was
How much of Israel is bought land from willing Arab sellers vs. stolen land, not counting for territories acquired by war (Independence and 1967)?


(Note: This question does not make sense excluding the War of Independence / Naqba, as that is where Israel saw its largest take-over of property.)

The short answer is around 70% of current Israeli properties, as quoted by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties:

"[...] when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants — an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property — Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category" - (Robert Fisk, 'The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property', The Times, December 24, 1980, quoted in his book Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War)

However, to better understand this number we must delve into how this came to be - and the mechanisms Israel employed to take control of those properties.

Israeli acquisition mechanisms:

600-700K Palestinians fled their homes for a variety of reasons (attacks, fear of massacres, massacres, expulsions - see Benny Morris for reasons). After they were not allowed to return to their homes following the cessation of hostilities, the nascent Israeli government sought to take formal control of the properties to be able to settle new immigrants to the country.

The method of doing so was through the "Absentee Property Law". Anyone who was a Palestinian Mandate citizen and left their ordinary place of residence for either 1) another country or 2) for a place in Mandate Palestine at the time held by enemy forces had their rights to their home taken from them by the Israeli Government.

This means that anyone who fled from the Zionist forces lost their home - and this applies to both Palestinian citizens of Israel (Israeli Arabs) or to Palestinian Refugees. However, the law was crafted such that Jewish citizens would not be impacted.

Israel still recognizes the ownership, and the properties are held in trust by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties. However, they have no rights to use it

Strange effects - 'present absentees':

This has led to some strange effects, where Arab Israeli citizens have the same rights as their Jewish counterparts - except for when it comes to their legal property - the so called Present absentees. They own properties in their old cities and villages, but those properties are now populated by Jews.

For example, the artist colony Ein Hod is an old village taken by the Israeli government through the absentee property law. Another example is the Shaya family house in Jaffa:

Three out of seven siblings of the Shaya family were in Lebanon as the war broke out - so the Israeli Government has taken control of 40% of the house, and is demanding rent from the family. See here: Why is Israel laying claim to an Arab home in Jaffa?

It also means Israel can take whatever homes they want in East Jerusalem, as east Jerusalem was under enemy control during the period. Israel can now legally seize Palestinians' homes in Jerusalem

Often in Israeli courts, all that is needed is a single witness 60 years later to say that the owner was away during that period - such as in this claim by the Jewish National Fund and the Elad organization to take the al-Ruweidi families home in Silwan: JNF, settler group seek to evict Palestinian family in Silwan

Based on the wording of the law - and court practice - Jewish Israelis can reclaim properties lost in 1947-49 (as has been done in Silwan), whereas Arab Israelis lack that right.

Ignoring Israeli law and stealing properties - Iqrit:

Sometimes when the Absentee Property Law was not enough, the government would just take the properties anyway. Take for example the Christian Arab village Iqrit in Northern Israel:

The inhabitants were expelled from their village by the Israeli Defence Forces in 1948, with the promise that they would be allowed to return in two weeks time. Three years later, they had still been blocked from returning - so the inhabitants petitioned the Supreme Court which ruled in their favor.

The IDF still refused, crafting new rationale for blocking their return. Before the new court case could be resolved, the Israeli Defense Forces blew up the village on Christmas Day 1951 to prevent their return, in violation of the Supreme Court.

Today, the Jewish villages of Shomera, Even Menachem and Gornot HaGalil are on Iqrit's lands, and the descendants of the village still have not been allowed to return.

4. Conclusion

Although technically legal under Israeli law, the law itself constitutes theft of property. The law was written to ensure that only Arabs would be impacted - and has continued to this day. Weak - and false - testimonies 60 years after the fact are used to deprive Palestinians of their properties today.

 

[Roudy]

Jews were already there. Had been for a long time. That keeps getting left out.

I have not left that out if you have been reading my posts, but that changes nothing as far as men coming from another continent behind an army. While the first wave was accepted, in a short time, the Jews, Christians and Muslims all realized that these were not the same people as the Jews of the middle east. And by the second wave, their worst suspicions became reality.

You're inventing on the go,
the Jews from middle eastern countries overwhelmingly supported Zionism, it was because of their persecution that You can see the initial international concern for the Jews in Eretz Israel.

Today, Middle Eastern Jews and their decendants comprise a majority of the population of Israel. Many of them migrated to Israel during the Arab Muslim pogroms. In a way Israel, is the last stand for Jewish presence in that region, which has existed for thousands of years.

 

[Coyote]

Jews were already there. Had been for a long time. That keeps getting left out.

I have not left that out if you have been reading my posts, but that changes nothing as far as men coming from another continent behind an army. While the first wave was accepted, in a short time, the Jews, Christians and Muslims all realized that these were not the same people as the Jews of the middle east. And by the second wave, their worst suspicions became reality.

You're inventing on the go,
the Jews from middle eastern countries overwhelmingly supported Zionism, it was because of their persecution that You can see the initial international concern for the Jews in Eretz Israel.

Today, Middle Eastern Jews and their decendants comprise a majority of the population of Israel. Many of them migrated to Israel during the Arab Muslim pogroms. In a way Israel, is the last stand for Jewish presence in that region, which has existed for thousands of years.

People tend to forget how really diverse Israel is - the only country in the ME who's citizens come from the world over. That adds an interesting depth and cultural richness to it.

 

[Roudy]

So much BS and so little time. The Arabs were there continuously for at least 1000 years. There was a smaller group of Christians during this time and a minute to nonexistent Jewish population for most of that time. Again, the Hebrew language was not even spoken there for centuries.

7) After Not Being Spoken for Two Millennia, It Was Dramatically Revived.


Hebrew had not been a spoken language for two millennia, and yet at the end of the 19th century, European Jews dreaming of a cultural renaissance in Palestine began to resurrect the language.
7 Things You Should Know About Hebrew | My Jewish Learning

Stop with zionist talking points and go study!

Did You know Jews used Hebrew alphabet to write Yiddish, Arabic and even English?

Not to mention the Founding Fathers of this country were Zionists who considered adopting Hebrew as the official language of the USA. That is why Hebrew and the history of Israel was taught in many universities and organizations you see Hebrew writing on some of emblems back then, including the Yale university logo.

 

[abi]

Sane people fighting for rights don't do it by demonizing an entire group and that is essentially what you are doing.

That is BS. There is nothing wrong with demonizing zionism. It is a cancer not only in Palestine, but everywhere. If you knew half the story of how they got their Balfour Declaration alone, you would begin to understand the power we are facing.

The sooner zionism is gone from our planet, the better off this world will be. Take that to bank. Defending zionism, Nazism, or any other subhuman ideology is a pathetic way to spend ones life.

AND DO NOT TURN THIS INTO THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL OR THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

You have seperated Jews into "Jews" (not sure exactly what that consists of) and "Zionists" which seems to be every Jew who immigrated to Israel.

So sorry for your misunderstanding of my position.

What you don't seem to realize is that this represents a great many diverse view points, cultures and backgrounds.

Ok, my mind reading friend, if you say so.

AND many of those "Zionists" are among those who support Palestinian rights and a 2-state solution.

Many Palestinians, Muslim, Christian and Jewish are not in favor of a two-state solution.

AND WE ARE WAY OFF TOPIC, sorry, but you people have a ton of threads for this stuff.

When you demonize a group, then yes, that is propoganda in my view.

Well, there is legitimate propaganda, I suppose

Sane people fighting for basic human rights are out there documenting abuses, going to court, finding SOLUTIONS, finding means of moving forward together and fixing those problems.

Yes, and they have for decades as the horror real people in Palestine feel every second of remains, and while zionists post what they are clueless about on the internet.

This really sounds more like talking points.

It isn't read history.

The society they created. Well, every society has it's pro's and con's. It can honestly be said is the most democratic nation in the Mid East. It provides equal opportunities to men and women both. Every citizen can vote. It has a good standard of living for that region. It's culture is vibrant, it's educational levels and literacy rate are far above it's neighbors. Arab Israeli's live better and are better educated then their counterparts elsewhere. As a society - they have enough insight to recognize when things might be going in the wrong direction, and try to remedy it. They are diverse. No nation is perfect.

Israel has lot going for it.

It is racist to it's core, built on recently stolen land, built on ethnic cleansing and hated by most of the world. But, sure, Israel has lot going for it.

You are blaming the expulsion of the Jews on Zionists? That's bizarre. The only one's to blame were the rulers who did it.

Wow, read a history book and leave any propaganda you have taken as fact behind. I'll start a thread if you wish, just for this.



.

 

[abi]

Movements like Zionism are HOW displaced nations organize and lobby for deals. There's a lot of work involved. And it takes leadership and PROCESS. The Kurds are advertising on American TV.. They HAVE leadership and organization. What are the Palestinians doing to ORGANIZE for nationhood?? Other than sucking down UN/Intl funding and pooping it away? When was the LAST Pali election or "central meeting"??

That is a good way to put it - excellant!

It is a juvenile way of looking at it. No land was 'available' and men from one continent giving land to other men from there, the land of others from another continent completely is ludicrous and thanks to Nuremberg, against international law.

Land ownership in the Ottoman Empire was a lot more complex then you seem to realize. It is often not clear who owned what after the dissolution of the empire. In addition, you have nomadic people's like the Beduoin who have ancestral territory but not "ownership". Now that is a group that has really suffered and been disenfranchised.

Much of the land, particularly in the early years was purchased: Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia As far as I know that is not illegal. This is not "men from one continent giving land to other men from there".

Where land was not purchased - where it was confiscated - then that is wrong.

The zionists used 3000 years of Jewish, not zionist, suffering for their land grab.

What exactly do you mean by that?

I would love for even one zionist to go read some actual history, compare it to what they have been taught, and then to check back to this forum after at least a few weeks.

I think everyone should read some history.

The land purchased was only about 7%. The rest of it was stolen.

BTW, land purchases do not remove that land from the country. It was still Palestinian land.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

Quora posed an interesting question, and there was one good answer (that sourced it's claims). The question was
How much of Israel is bought land from willing Arab sellers vs. stolen land, not counting for territories acquired by war (Independence and 1967)?


(Note: This question does not make sense excluding the War of Independence / Naqba, as that is where Israel saw its largest take-over of property.)

The short answer is around 70% of current Israeli properties, as quoted by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties:

"[...] when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants — an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property — Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category" - (Robert Fisk, 'The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property', The Times, December 24, 1980, quoted in his book Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War)

However, to better understand this number we must delve into how this came to be - and the mechanisms Israel employed to take control of those properties.

Israeli acquisition mechanisms:

600-700K Palestinians fled their homes for a variety of reasons (attacks, fear of massacres, massacres, expulsions - see Benny Morris for reasons). After they were not allowed to return to their homes following the cessation of hostilities, the nascent Israeli government sought to take formal control of the properties to be able to settle new immigrants to the country.

The method of doing so was through the "Absentee Property Law". Anyone who was a Palestinian Mandate citizen and left their ordinary place of residence for either 1) another country or 2) for a place in Mandate Palestine at the time held by enemy forces had their rights to their home taken from them by the Israeli Government.

This means that anyone who fled from the Zionist forces lost their home - and this applies to both Palestinian citizens of Israel (Israeli Arabs) or to Palestinian Refugees. However, the law was crafted such that Jewish citizens would not be impacted.

Israel still recognizes the ownership, and the properties are held in trust by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties. However, they have no rights to use it

Strange effects - 'present absentees':

This has led to some strange effects, where Arab Israeli citizens have the same rights as their Jewish counterparts - except for when it comes to their legal property - the so called Present absentees. They own properties in their old cities and villages, but those properties are now populated by Jews.

For example, the artist colony Ein Hod is an old village taken by the Israeli government through the absentee property law. Another example is the Shaya family house in Jaffa:

Three out of seven siblings of the Shaya family were in Lebanon as the war broke out - so the Israeli Government has taken control of 40% of the house, and is demanding rent from the family. See here: Why is Israel laying claim to an Arab home in Jaffa?

It also means Israel can take whatever homes they want in East Jerusalem, as east Jerusalem was under enemy control during the period. Israel can now legally seize Palestinians' homes in Jerusalem

Often in Israeli courts, all that is needed is a single witness 60 years later to say that the owner was away during that period - such as in this claim by the Jewish National Fund and the Elad organization to take the al-Ruweidi families home in Silwan: JNF, settler group seek to evict Palestinian family in Silwan

Based on the wording of the law - and court practice - Jewish Israelis can reclaim properties lost in 1947-49 (as has been done in Silwan), whereas Arab Israelis lack that right.

Ignoring Israeli law and stealing properties - Iqrit:

Sometimes when the Absentee Property Law was not enough, the government would just take the properties anyway. Take for example the Christian Arab village Iqrit in Northern Israel:

The inhabitants were expelled from their village by the Israeli Defence Forces in 1948, with the promise that they would be allowed to return in two weeks time. Three years later, they had still been blocked from returning - so the inhabitants petitioned the Supreme Court which ruled in their favor.

The IDF still refused, crafting new rationale for blocking their return. Before the new court case could be resolved, the Israeli Defense Forces blew up the village on Christmas Day 1951 to prevent their return, in violation of the Supreme Court.

Today, the Jewish villages of Shomera, Even Menachem and Gornot HaGalil are on Iqrit's lands, and the descendants of the village still have not been allowed to return.

4. Conclusion

Although technically legal under Israeli law, the law itself constitutes theft of property. The law was written to ensure that only Arabs would be impacted - and has continued to this day. Weak - and false - testimonies 60 years after the fact are used to deprive Palestinians of their properties today.

Stealing land, ethnically cleansing over 80% of the population and telling the native people who remain (and who have died or been expelled) that you have written new laws and now own their property is as preposterous as it is yet another dangerous precedent for humanity.

People tend to forget how really diverse Israel is - the only country in the ME who's citizens come from the world over. That adds an interesting depth and cultural richness to it.

Oh, sure we do. In ziospeak (zionist doublespeak) really diverse means the whites rule over everyone darker including the Jews.

Does any have or know where to find demographics information for the occupied territories?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Movements like Zionism are HOW displaced nations organize and lobby for deals. There's a lot of work involved. And it takes leadership and PROCESS. The Kurds are advertising on American TV.. They HAVE leadership and organization. What are the Palestinians doing to ORGANIZE for nationhood?? Other than sucking down UN/Intl funding and pooping it away? When was the LAST Pali election or "central meeting"??

That is a good way to put it - excellant!

It is a juvenile way of looking at it. No land was 'available' and men from one continent giving land to other men from there, the land of others from another continent completely is ludicrous and thanks to Nuremberg, against international law.

Land ownership in the Ottoman Empire was a lot more complex then you seem to realize. It is often not clear who owned what after the dissolution of the empire. In addition, you have nomadic people's like the Beduoin who have ancestral territory but not "ownership". Now that is a group that has really suffered and been disenfranchised.

Much of the land, particularly in the early years was purchased: Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia As far as I know that is not illegal. This is not "men from one continent giving land to other men from there".

Where land was not purchased - where it was confiscated - then that is wrong.

The zionists used 3000 years of Jewish, not zionist, suffering for their land grab.

What exactly do you mean by that?

I would love for even one zionist to go read some actual history, compare it to what they have been taught, and then to check back to this forum after at least a few weeks.

I think everyone should read some history.

The land purchased was only about 7%. The rest of it was stolen.

BTW, land purchases do not remove that land from the country. It was still Palestinian land.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

Quora posed an interesting question, and there was one good answer (that sourced it's claims). The question was
How much of Israel is bought land from willing Arab sellers vs. stolen land, not counting for territories acquired by war (Independence and 1967)?


(Note: This question does not make sense excluding the War of Independence / Naqba, as that is where Israel saw its largest take-over of property.)

The short answer is around 70% of current Israeli properties, as quoted by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties:

"[...] when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants — an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property — Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category" - (Robert Fisk, 'The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property', The Times, December 24, 1980, quoted in his book Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War)

However, to better understand this number we must delve into how this came to be - and the mechanisms Israel employed to take control of those properties.

Israeli acquisition mechanisms:

600-700K Palestinians fled their homes for a variety of reasons (attacks, fear of massacres, massacres, expulsions - see Benny Morris for reasons). After they were not allowed to return to their homes following the cessation of hostilities, the nascent Israeli government sought to take formal control of the properties to be able to settle new immigrants to the country.

The method of doing so was through the "Absentee Property Law". Anyone who was a Palestinian Mandate citizen and left their ordinary place of residence for either 1) another country or 2) for a place in Mandate Palestine at the time held by enemy forces had their rights to their home taken from them by the Israeli Government.

This means that anyone who fled from the Zionist forces lost their home - and this applies to both Palestinian citizens of Israel (Israeli Arabs) or to Palestinian Refugees. However, the law was crafted such that Jewish citizens would not be impacted.

Israel still recognizes the ownership, and the properties are held in trust by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties. However, they have no rights to use it

Strange effects - 'present absentees':

This has led to some strange effects, where Arab Israeli citizens have the same rights as their Jewish counterparts - except for when it comes to their legal property - the so called Present absentees. They own properties in their old cities and villages, but those properties are now populated by Jews.

For example, the artist colony Ein Hod is an old village taken by the Israeli government through the absentee property law. Another example is the Shaya family house in Jaffa:

Three out of seven siblings of the Shaya family were in Lebanon as the war broke out - so the Israeli Government has taken control of 40% of the house, and is demanding rent from the family. See here: Why is Israel laying claim to an Arab home in Jaffa?

It also means Israel can take whatever homes they want in East Jerusalem, as east Jerusalem was under enemy control during the period. Israel can now legally seize Palestinians' homes in Jerusalem

Often in Israeli courts, all that is needed is a single witness 60 years later to say that the owner was away during that period - such as in this claim by the Jewish National Fund and the Elad organization to take the al-Ruweidi families home in Silwan: JNF, settler group seek to evict Palestinian family in Silwan

Based on the wording of the law - and court practice - Jewish Israelis can reclaim properties lost in 1947-49 (as has been done in Silwan), whereas Arab Israelis lack that right.

Ignoring Israeli law and stealing properties - Iqrit:

Sometimes when the Absentee Property Law was not enough, the government would just take the properties anyway. Take for example the Christian Arab village Iqrit in Northern Israel:

The inhabitants were expelled from their village by the Israeli Defence Forces in 1948, with the promise that they would be allowed to return in two weeks time. Three years later, they had still been blocked from returning - so the inhabitants petitioned the Supreme Court which ruled in their favor.

The IDF still refused, crafting new rationale for blocking their return. Before the new court case could be resolved, the Israeli Defense Forces blew up the village on Christmas Day 1951 to prevent their return, in violation of the Supreme Court.

Today, the Jewish villages of Shomera, Even Menachem and Gornot HaGalil are on Iqrit's lands, and the descendants of the village still have not been allowed to return.

4. Conclusion

Although technically legal under Israeli law, the law itself constitutes theft of property. The law was written to ensure that only Arabs would be impacted - and has continued to this day. Weak - and false - testimonies 60 years after the fact are used to deprive Palestinians of their properties today.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

I see it all the time in videos. It is hard to find it in text.

Following Jewish National Fund guidelines, farmers evicted Palestinian peasants living on the newly acquired plots. The total number displaced was small. By 1946, Jews owned only 7 percent of Palestine, but the perceived threat of displacement was widespread among Arabs.

Selling Land to Jews​

 

[Indeependent]

Movements like Zionism are HOW displaced nations organize and lobby for deals. There's a lot of work involved. And it takes leadership and PROCESS. The Kurds are advertising on American TV.. They HAVE leadership and organization. What are the Palestinians doing to ORGANIZE for nationhood?? Other than sucking down UN/Intl funding and pooping it away? When was the LAST Pali election or "central meeting"??

That is a good way to put it - excellant!

It is a juvenile way of looking at it. No land was 'available' and men from one continent giving land to other men from there, the land of others from another continent completely is ludicrous and thanks to Nuremberg, against international law.

Land ownership in the Ottoman Empire was a lot more complex then you seem to realize. It is often not clear who owned what after the dissolution of the empire. In addition, you have nomadic people's like the Beduoin who have ancestral territory but not "ownership". Now that is a group that has really suffered and been disenfranchised.

Much of the land, particularly in the early years was purchased: Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia As far as I know that is not illegal. This is not "men from one continent giving land to other men from there".

Where land was not purchased - where it was confiscated - then that is wrong.

The zionists used 3000 years of Jewish, not zionist, suffering for their land grab.

What exactly do you mean by that?

I would love for even one zionist to go read some actual history, compare it to what they have been taught, and then to check back to this forum after at least a few weeks.

I think everyone should read some history.

The land purchased was only about 7%. The rest of it was stolen.

BTW, land purchases do not remove that land from the country. It was still Palestinian land.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

Quora posed an interesting question, and there was one good answer (that sourced it's claims). The question was
How much of Israel is bought land from willing Arab sellers vs. stolen land, not counting for territories acquired by war (Independence and 1967)?


(Note: This question does not make sense excluding the War of Independence / Naqba, as that is where Israel saw its largest take-over of property.)

The short answer is around 70% of current Israeli properties, as quoted by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties:

"[...] when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants — an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property — Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category" - (Robert Fisk, 'The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property', The Times, December 24, 1980, quoted in his book Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War)

However, to better understand this number we must delve into how this came to be - and the mechanisms Israel employed to take control of those properties.

Israeli acquisition mechanisms:

600-700K Palestinians fled their homes for a variety of reasons (attacks, fear of massacres, massacres, expulsions - see Benny Morris for reasons). After they were not allowed to return to their homes following the cessation of hostilities, the nascent Israeli government sought to take formal control of the properties to be able to settle new immigrants to the country.

The method of doing so was through the "Absentee Property Law". Anyone who was a Palestinian Mandate citizen and left their ordinary place of residence for either 1) another country or 2) for a place in Mandate Palestine at the time held by enemy forces had their rights to their home taken from them by the Israeli Government.

This means that anyone who fled from the Zionist forces lost their home - and this applies to both Palestinian citizens of Israel (Israeli Arabs) or to Palestinian Refugees. However, the law was crafted such that Jewish citizens would not be impacted.

Israel still recognizes the ownership, and the properties are held in trust by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties. However, they have no rights to use it

Strange effects - 'present absentees':

This has led to some strange effects, where Arab Israeli citizens have the same rights as their Jewish counterparts - except for when it comes to their legal property - the so called Present absentees. They own properties in their old cities and villages, but those properties are now populated by Jews.

For example, the artist colony Ein Hod is an old village taken by the Israeli government through the absentee property law. Another example is the Shaya family house in Jaffa:

Three out of seven siblings of the Shaya family were in Lebanon as the war broke out - so the Israeli Government has taken control of 40% of the house, and is demanding rent from the family. See here: Why is Israel laying claim to an Arab home in Jaffa?

It also means Israel can take whatever homes they want in East Jerusalem, as east Jerusalem was under enemy control during the period. Israel can now legally seize Palestinians' homes in Jerusalem

Often in Israeli courts, all that is needed is a single witness 60 years later to say that the owner was away during that period - such as in this claim by the Jewish National Fund and the Elad organization to take the al-Ruweidi families home in Silwan: JNF, settler group seek to evict Palestinian family in Silwan

Based on the wording of the law - and court practice - Jewish Israelis can reclaim properties lost in 1947-49 (as has been done in Silwan), whereas Arab Israelis lack that right.

Ignoring Israeli law and stealing properties - Iqrit:

Sometimes when the Absentee Property Law was not enough, the government would just take the properties anyway. Take for example the Christian Arab village Iqrit in Northern Israel:

The inhabitants were expelled from their village by the Israeli Defence Forces in 1948, with the promise that they would be allowed to return in two weeks time. Three years later, they had still been blocked from returning - so the inhabitants petitioned the Supreme Court which ruled in their favor.

The IDF still refused, crafting new rationale for blocking their return. Before the new court case could be resolved, the Israeli Defense Forces blew up the village on Christmas Day 1951 to prevent their return, in violation of the Supreme Court.

Today, the Jewish villages of Shomera, Even Menachem and Gornot HaGalil are on Iqrit's lands, and the descendants of the village still have not been allowed to return.

4. Conclusion

Although technically legal under Israeli law, the law itself constitutes theft of property. The law was written to ensure that only Arabs would be impacted - and has continued to this day. Weak - and false - testimonies 60 years after the fact are used to deprive Palestinians of their properties today.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

I see it all the time in videos. It is hard to find it in text.

Following Jewish National Fund guidelines, farmers evicted Palestinian peasants living on the newly acquired plots. The total number displaced was small. By 1946, Jews owned only 7 percent of Palestine, but the perceived threat of displacement was widespread among Arabs.

Selling Land to Jews​

Yeah, we all know about you and your videos.

 

[rylah]

Movements like Zionism are HOW displaced nations organize and lobby for deals. There's a lot of work involved. And it takes leadership and PROCESS. The Kurds are advertising on American TV.. They HAVE leadership and organization. What are the Palestinians doing to ORGANIZE for nationhood?? Other than sucking down UN/Intl funding and pooping it away? When was the LAST Pali election or "central meeting"??

That is a good way to put it - excellant!

It is a juvenile way of looking at it. No land was 'available' and men from one continent giving land to other men from there, the land of others from another continent completely is ludicrous and thanks to Nuremberg, against international law.

Land ownership in the Ottoman Empire was a lot more complex then you seem to realize. It is often not clear who owned what after the dissolution of the empire. In addition, you have nomadic people's like the Beduoin who have ancestral territory but not "ownership". Now that is a group that has really suffered and been disenfranchised.

Much of the land, particularly in the early years was purchased: Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia As far as I know that is not illegal. This is not "men from one continent giving land to other men from there".

Where land was not purchased - where it was confiscated - then that is wrong.

The zionists used 3000 years of Jewish, not zionist, suffering for their land grab.

What exactly do you mean by that?

I would love for even one zionist to go read some actual history, compare it to what they have been taught, and then to check back to this forum after at least a few weeks.

I think everyone should read some history.

The land purchased was only about 7%. The rest of it was stolen.

BTW, land purchases do not remove that land from the country. It was still Palestinian land.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

Quora posed an interesting question, and there was one good answer (that sourced it's claims). The question was
How much of Israel is bought land from willing Arab sellers vs. stolen land, not counting for territories acquired by war (Independence and 1967)?


(Note: This question does not make sense excluding the War of Independence / Naqba, as that is where Israel saw its largest take-over of property.)

The short answer is around 70% of current Israeli properties, as quoted by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties:

"[...] when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants — an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property — Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category" - (Robert Fisk, 'The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property', The Times, December 24, 1980, quoted in his book Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War)

However, to better understand this number we must delve into how this came to be - and the mechanisms Israel employed to take control of those properties.

Israeli acquisition mechanisms:

600-700K Palestinians fled their homes for a variety of reasons (attacks, fear of massacres, massacres, expulsions - see Benny Morris for reasons). After they were not allowed to return to their homes following the cessation of hostilities, the nascent Israeli government sought to take formal control of the properties to be able to settle new immigrants to the country.

The method of doing so was through the "Absentee Property Law". Anyone who was a Palestinian Mandate citizen and left their ordinary place of residence for either 1) another country or 2) for a place in Mandate Palestine at the time held by enemy forces had their rights to their home taken from them by the Israeli Government.

This means that anyone who fled from the Zionist forces lost their home - and this applies to both Palestinian citizens of Israel (Israeli Arabs) or to Palestinian Refugees. However, the law was crafted such that Jewish citizens would not be impacted.

Israel still recognizes the ownership, and the properties are held in trust by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties. However, they have no rights to use it

Strange effects - 'present absentees':

This has led to some strange effects, where Arab Israeli citizens have the same rights as their Jewish counterparts - except for when it comes to their legal property - the so called Present absentees. They own properties in their old cities and villages, but those properties are now populated by Jews.

For example, the artist colony Ein Hod is an old village taken by the Israeli government through the absentee property law. Another example is the Shaya family house in Jaffa:

Three out of seven siblings of the Shaya family were in Lebanon as the war broke out - so the Israeli Government has taken control of 40% of the house, and is demanding rent from the family. See here: Why is Israel laying claim to an Arab home in Jaffa?

It also means Israel can take whatever homes they want in East Jerusalem, as east Jerusalem was under enemy control during the period. Israel can now legally seize Palestinians' homes in Jerusalem

Often in Israeli courts, all that is needed is a single witness 60 years later to say that the owner was away during that period - such as in this claim by the Jewish National Fund and the Elad organization to take the al-Ruweidi families home in Silwan: JNF, settler group seek to evict Palestinian family in Silwan

Based on the wording of the law - and court practice - Jewish Israelis can reclaim properties lost in 1947-49 (as has been done in Silwan), whereas Arab Israelis lack that right.

Ignoring Israeli law and stealing properties - Iqrit:

Sometimes when the Absentee Property Law was not enough, the government would just take the properties anyway. Take for example the Christian Arab village Iqrit in Northern Israel:

The inhabitants were expelled from their village by the Israeli Defence Forces in 1948, with the promise that they would be allowed to return in two weeks time. Three years later, they had still been blocked from returning - so the inhabitants petitioned the Supreme Court which ruled in their favor.

The IDF still refused, crafting new rationale for blocking their return. Before the new court case could be resolved, the Israeli Defense Forces blew up the village on Christmas Day 1951 to prevent their return, in violation of the Supreme Court.

Today, the Jewish villages of Shomera, Even Menachem and Gornot HaGalil are on Iqrit's lands, and the descendants of the village still have not been allowed to return.

4. Conclusion

Although technically legal under Israeli law, the law itself constitutes theft of property. The law was written to ensure that only Arabs would be impacted - and has continued to this day. Weak - and false - testimonies 60 years after the fact are used to deprive Palestinians of their properties today.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

I see it all the time in videos. It is hard to find it in text.

Following Jewish National Fund guidelines, farmers evicted Palestinian peasants living on the newly acquired plots. The total number displaced was small. By 1946, Jews owned only 7 percent of Palestine, but the perceived threat of displacement was widespread among Arabs.

Selling Land to Jews​

Correct me if I misunderstand Your line of thought -
You think 7% Jewish purchased land automatically means the other 93% was private land owned by Palestinian Arabs?

 

[Coyote]

Movements like Zionism are HOW displaced nations organize and lobby for deals. There's a lot of work involved. And it takes leadership and PROCESS. The Kurds are advertising on American TV.. They HAVE leadership and organization. What are the Palestinians doing to ORGANIZE for nationhood?? Other than sucking down UN/Intl funding and pooping it away? When was the LAST Pali election or "central meeting"??

That is a good way to put it - excellant!

It is a juvenile way of looking at it. No land was 'available' and men from one continent giving land to other men from there, the land of others from another continent completely is ludicrous and thanks to Nuremberg, against international law.

Land ownership in the Ottoman Empire was a lot more complex then you seem to realize. It is often not clear who owned what after the dissolution of the empire. In addition, you have nomadic people's like the Beduoin who have ancestral territory but not "ownership". Now that is a group that has really suffered and been disenfranchised.

Much of the land, particularly in the early years was purchased: Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia As far as I know that is not illegal. This is not "men from one continent giving land to other men from there".

Where land was not purchased - where it was confiscated - then that is wrong.

The zionists used 3000 years of Jewish, not zionist, suffering for their land grab.

What exactly do you mean by that?

I would love for even one zionist to go read some actual history, compare it to what they have been taught, and then to check back to this forum after at least a few weeks.

I think everyone should read some history.

The land purchased was only about 7%. The rest of it was stolen.

BTW, land purchases do not remove that land from the country. It was still Palestinian land.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

Quora posed an interesting question, and there was one good answer (that sourced it's claims). The question was
How much of Israel is bought land from willing Arab sellers vs. stolen land, not counting for territories acquired by war (Independence and 1967)?


(Note: This question does not make sense excluding the War of Independence / Naqba, as that is where Israel saw its largest take-over of property.)

The short answer is around 70% of current Israeli properties, as quoted by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties:

"[...] when asked how much of the land of the state of Israel might potentially have two claimants — an Arab and a Jew holding respectively a British Mandate and an Israeli deed to the same property — Mr. Manor [the Custodian in 1980] believes that 'about 70 percent' might fall into that category" - (Robert Fisk, 'The Land of Palestine, Part Eight: The Custodian of Absentee Property', The Times, December 24, 1980, quoted in his book Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War)

However, to better understand this number we must delve into how this came to be - and the mechanisms Israel employed to take control of those properties.

Israeli acquisition mechanisms:

600-700K Palestinians fled their homes for a variety of reasons (attacks, fear of massacres, massacres, expulsions - see Benny Morris for reasons). After they were not allowed to return to their homes following the cessation of hostilities, the nascent Israeli government sought to take formal control of the properties to be able to settle new immigrants to the country.

The method of doing so was through the "Absentee Property Law". Anyone who was a Palestinian Mandate citizen and left their ordinary place of residence for either 1) another country or 2) for a place in Mandate Palestine at the time held by enemy forces had their rights to their home taken from them by the Israeli Government.

This means that anyone who fled from the Zionist forces lost their home - and this applies to both Palestinian citizens of Israel (Israeli Arabs) or to Palestinian Refugees. However, the law was crafted such that Jewish citizens would not be impacted.

Israel still recognizes the ownership, and the properties are held in trust by the Israeli Custodian of Absentee Properties. However, they have no rights to use it

Strange effects - 'present absentees':

This has led to some strange effects, where Arab Israeli citizens have the same rights as their Jewish counterparts - except for when it comes to their legal property - the so called Present absentees. They own properties in their old cities and villages, but those properties are now populated by Jews.

For example, the artist colony Ein Hod is an old village taken by the Israeli government through the absentee property law. Another example is the Shaya family house in Jaffa:

Three out of seven siblings of the Shaya family were in Lebanon as the war broke out - so the Israeli Government has taken control of 40% of the house, and is demanding rent from the family. See here: Why is Israel laying claim to an Arab home in Jaffa?

It also means Israel can take whatever homes they want in East Jerusalem, as east Jerusalem was under enemy control during the period. Israel can now legally seize Palestinians' homes in Jerusalem

Often in Israeli courts, all that is needed is a single witness 60 years later to say that the owner was away during that period - such as in this claim by the Jewish National Fund and the Elad organization to take the al-Ruweidi families home in Silwan: JNF, settler group seek to evict Palestinian family in Silwan

Based on the wording of the law - and court practice - Jewish Israelis can reclaim properties lost in 1947-49 (as has been done in Silwan), whereas Arab Israelis lack that right.

Ignoring Israeli law and stealing properties - Iqrit:

Sometimes when the Absentee Property Law was not enough, the government would just take the properties anyway. Take for example the Christian Arab village Iqrit in Northern Israel:

The inhabitants were expelled from their village by the Israeli Defence Forces in 1948, with the promise that they would be allowed to return in two weeks time. Three years later, they had still been blocked from returning - so the inhabitants petitioned the Supreme Court which ruled in their favor.

The IDF still refused, crafting new rationale for blocking their return. Before the new court case could be resolved, the Israeli Defense Forces blew up the village on Christmas Day 1951 to prevent their return, in violation of the Supreme Court.

Today, the Jewish villages of Shomera, Even Menachem and Gornot HaGalil are on Iqrit's lands, and the descendants of the village still have not been allowed to return.

4. Conclusion

Although technically legal under Israeli law, the law itself constitutes theft of property. The law was written to ensure that only Arabs would be impacted - and has continued to this day. Weak - and false - testimonies 60 years after the fact are used to deprive Palestinians of their properties today.

7%? I think this is one of the hardest questions to find unbiased answers too....I didn't think the number was that low, where do you get it from?

I see it all the time in videos. It is hard to find it in text.

Following Jewish National Fund guidelines, farmers evicted Palestinian peasants living on the newly acquired plots. The total number displaced was small. By 1946, Jews owned only 7 percent of Palestine, but the perceived threat of displacement was widespread among Arabs.

Selling Land to Jews​

Thank you! Good article

 

[abu afak]

Correct me if I misunderstand Your line of thought -
You think 7% Jewish purchased land automatically means the other 93% was private land owned by Palestinian Arabs?

CAMERA: Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America

.."Mattar's clear, and false, implication is that if Jews owned only some small percentage of the land, then Arabs must have owned the rest, in this case more than 93% of the country.
But this is nonsense – in Mandate Palestine the Arabs owned little more land than did the Jews. Indeed, going back to Ottoman times, Most of the country was state-owned land, not under any individual ownership. Thus, under the Ottoman code one of the main land categories was miri, meaning land belonging to the Emir.

During the Mandate, the British carried out detailed land surveys, marking off who owned what, and according to figures in the 'British Survey of Palestine' (republished and endorsed by Mattar's Institute for Palestine Studies), at least 65% of the country was State land, and probably much more than that.
[.....]​

ie, The Negev Desert, fully HALF of what became Israel, was State Land, belonging to NO Arab.

The old 'Four Maps' is total BS.

Tinhead's article is also BS.


`

 

[abi]

CAMERA: Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America

.."Mattar's clear, and false, implication is that if Jews owned only some small percentage of the land, then Arabs must have owned the rest, in this case more than 93% of the country.
But this is nonsense – in Mandate Palestine the Arabs owned little more land than did the Jews. Indeed, going back to Ottoman times, most of the country was state-owned land, not under any individual ownership. Thus, under the Ottoman code one of the main land categories was miri, meaning land belonging to the Emir.

During the Mandate, the British carried out detailed land surveys, marking off who owned what, and according to figures in the 'British Survey of Palestine' (republished and endorsed by Mattar's Institute for Palestine Studies), at least 65% of the country was State land, and probably much more than that.[.....]

Camera is not a news source. They pump out whatever Israeli officials tell them to.

 

[Coyote]

Sane people fighting for rights don't do it by demonizing an entire group and that is essentially what you are doing.

That is BS. There is nothing wrong with demonizing zionism. It is a cancer not only in Palestine, but everywhere. If you knew half the story of how they got their Balfour Declaration alone, you would begin to understand the power we are facing.

The sooner zionism is gone from our planet, the better off this world will be. Take that to bank. Defending zionism, Nazism, or any other subhuman ideology is a pathetic way to spend ones life.

AND DO NOT TURN THIS INTO THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL OR THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

There is so much wrong with this statement.

Demonizing is the first step towards justifying persecution, ethnic cleansing...genocide. It's easier to abuse people if you view them as less than. It's what is happening to the Muslim Rohinga in Myanmar. It's what hate groups indulge in when the whip up the masses against Jews, Muslims, Blacks.... You are not attacking actions. You're attacking a very vague historical ideology that in your mind encompasses all the European Jews who immigrated to Palestine and marks them as evil.

Then you say: "...you would begin to understand the power we are facing..." This segues neatly into the unspoken "truth" of your position. The idea that Jews are secretly very powerful and control much of the world's puppet strings. That is a canard. But you've just replaced Jew with Zionist to make it acceptable to the mainstream.

"Defending zionism, Nazism, or any other subhuman ideology is a pathetic way to spend ones life."

Comparing Zionism with Nazism? Please.

 

[abu afak]

Camera is not a news source. They pump out whatever Israeli officials tell them to.

CAMERA is an excellent source Purple CLOWN/spammer.
They regularly get corrections from MSM,
ie, everyone
CAMERA: Corrected

and you have NO Rebuttal to CAMERA, or ANYTHING I've posted Busting your ass.

You can't debate me you Clown.
I'm knowledgable, while you're a Trite OCD Spammer.

`

 

[Roudy]

No. I provided a link, that is sufficient. I have never come across a map.

Wikipedia is not an encyclopedia. It ca be edited by anyone.

Note the 1946 map showing the land both sides agree had been purchased.

How do you define "zionists"?

Read the thread in the link. If you are still confused, ask there or begin another thread, it is likely a more difficult discussion than you might imagine.

Much of the land, particularly in the early years was purchased: Jewish land purchase in Palestine - Wikipedia As far as I know that is not illegal. This is not "men from one continent giving land to other men from there".

Where land was not purchased - where it was confiscated - then that is wrong.

Show me a map that illustrates what land was legally purchased, please.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Beyond the obvious, The zionists do NOT speak for the Jewish people and antizionism is NOT antisemitism.

There is a large collection of Israel Land Deeds at Stanford University. I used to have library privileges there and attended a special collection showing at their museum for the 150th year celebration of Tel Aviv. They were on the NET for a couple years and taken off to be replaced with other other highlighted collections. I posted a dozen of them here at one time. ALL were the originial deeds for the early Tel Aviv settlement. ALL -- from ex-pat Arab landowners..

Some -- to be honest, go back to buys under the Ottoman Empire. Where occasionally a "dutch or spanish" broker was used to avoid scrutiny by the Ottomans.

Claims of these documents are well and good, but they were for no more than a minute percentage of Palestine.

You have an uncanny way of responding with even more lies and propaganda.

Misleading and Harmful: the "Palestinian Loss of Land" Maps

These “maps” have been widely circulated by the BDS movement, and they are misleading and dishonest. They appear in the “Zionism Unsettled” study guide. They appear on the websites of the Israel Palestine Mission Network (IPMN) and the Presbyterian Peace Fellowship (PPF). They also appear in the supporting materials for the BDS overtures submitted to the 2014 and upcoming 2016 Presbyterian General Assemblies.

The intent of the maps is clear: to falsely demonstrate an “ethnic cleansing” that did not occur, one perpetrated by the “colonizer” Jews upon “indigenous” Arabs (the incendiary words “colonizer”, “indigenous”, and “ethnic cleansing” are used repeatedly in BDS literature).

In 1946, the area labeled “Palestine” was the British Mandate of Palestine. All who lived there were Palestinians, Arab Palestinians and Jewish Palestinians. In the 1946 “map” these terms change. The Arab Palestinians are now simply “Palestinians.” The word “Palestinian” now means “Arab” and no longer refers to all of the people who live there, and the Jewish Palestinians are simply “Jews”. In 1946 Jews paid over 50% of property taxes in Palestine. Almost half of the land was public land, owned by no one and administered by the British. The premise that the land was almost all “Arab land” is misleading. It was shared land and belonged to no particular ethnic group.

Now let’s consider the 1967 map in terms of “ethnic cleansing”, keeping in mind that before 1948, both Jews and Arabs lived in all of the areas of the British Mandate of Palestine, including the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. It is quite common to hear that the entire West Bank is “Arab Land” and always has been, but numerous Jewish communities existed in what is now the West Bank prior to 1948. These communities were attacked and wiped out by Arab mobs in 1920, 1929 and 1936 and during the war waged by Arab militias and Arab governments in 1947-48. Here are some facts:

Until it was wiped out by Arab riots in 1929 in what is known as the Hebron Massacre, there was a large Jewish community in the center of Hebron

The Jewish population of Jerusalem (which has had a Jewish majority since at least the second half of the 19th century) was dispossessed by the Arab riots of 1929 and 1936 (when Jews fled most of what is now called the Muslim Quarter). In 1948, the Jordanian Legion expelled all of the Jews then living in what is now East Jerusalem and destroyed its holy places.

Sizeable tracts of land owned by Jews in the rural West Bank – including the Gush Etzion settlements, land between Nablus, Jenin and Tulkarm, and in Bethlehem and Hebron – were seized by the Jordanians in 1948.

The ‘Jewish settlements’ north of Jerusalem, Atarot and Neve Yaakov, were evacuated in 1948, under the declared threat of advancing Arab armies to massacre all the Jews in their path.

Today, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians live on land in and around Jerusalem that is still owned by the Jewish National Fund, including the Kalandia refugee camp and the Deheishe refugee camp south of Bethlehem.

Photo below: Jews being expelled from Old City by Jordanian forces 1948

In 1967, the only land in in Israel-Palestine that was “ethnically cleansed” was the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. All three areas were 100% ethnically cleansed of Jews after the 1948 war. In addition to the photo above, review these additional 1948 historic photos of Jews expelled from the Old City.

 

[Roudy]

Jews were already there. Had been for a long time. That keeps getting left out.

I have not left that out if you have been reading my posts, but that changes nothing as far as men coming from another continent behind an army. While the first wave was accepted, in a short time, the Jews, Christians and Muslims all realized that these were not the same people as the Jews of the middle east. And by the second wave, their worst suspicions became reality.

You're inventing on the go,
the Jews from middle eastern countries overwhelmingly supported Zionism, it was because of their persecution that You can see the initial international concern for the Jews in Eretz Israel.

Today, Middle Eastern Jews and their decendants comprise a majority of the population of Israel. Many of them migrated to Israel during the Arab Muslim pogroms. In a way Israel, is the last stand for Jewish presence in that region, which has existed for thousands of years.

People tend to forget how really diverse Israel is - the only country in the ME who's citizens come from the world over. That adds an interesting depth and cultural richness to it.

Correct, in Israel you will find people that brought with them food, language, music and culture from all over the world.

 

[Roudy]

The claim that Hebrew was not spoken for two millennia is so blatantly false it is astonishing someone would (repetitively) make that claim.

It is historical fact and is verified by multiple Jewish sources as the one I posted. Stop derailing.

Uh huh. And prayers books were written in a language no one could read or speak from for thousands of years. I suppose they were just to have something to play with in our hands during the long services and had no real purpose other than that. And I suppose the discussions in Talmud concerning which language certain prayers should be spoke in is just a later insertion to defraud everyone. Please, you are not doing any favours for your credibility.

Hebrew has been spoken, in some contexts, continuously, for thousands of years. The reason it could BE revived as an everyday spoken language was because it was kept alive for all of those centuries. HOW it was revived as simply for one man to begin speaking it as an every day language.

You want to see what a dead language really looks like --go see if you can find someone speaking (ancient) Egyptian in every day life and see that revived by millions of modern day Egyptians within the span of a few decades. Good luck.

What in the world were the founders of these elite universities thinking putting an "unspoken language" on their university logos 200 years ago? Ha ha ha.

 

[abi]

There is so much wrong with this statement.

Demonizing is the first step towards justifying persecution, ethnic cleansing...genocide. It's easier to abuse people if you view them as less than. It's what is happening to the Muslim Rohinga in Myanmar. It's what hate groups indulge in when the whip up the masses against Jews, Muslims, Blacks.... You are not attacking actions. You're attacking a very vague historical ideology that in your mind encompasses all the European Jews who immigrated to Palestine and marks them as evil.

False, almost completely and it's a shame that the Nazis were not demonized sooner. This situation has been ongoing for decades; we have plenty of data.

And stop pretending to read minds. My mind does NOT view all the European Jews who immigrated to Palestine as evil. I have absolutely no problem with any person Jewish, Muslim or Christian, with a connection to that land and being accepted by the native people, living there in peace. This certainly MUST include the Palestinians who wish to return. The zionists, by definition at this point make peace impossible.

Then you say: "...you would begin to understand the power we are facing..." This segues neatly into the unspoken "truth" of your position. The idea that Jews are secretly very powerful and control much of the world's puppet strings. That is a canard. But you've just replaced Jew with Zionist to make it acceptable to the mainstream.

Hardly a canard, you are twisting what I said to meet your preconceived ideas, and again, this is just simple history. Please go look for yourself at how the Balfour Declaration came to be. Especially after such a heinous charge.

"Defending zionism, Nazism, or any other subhuman ideology is a pathetic way to spend ones life."

Comparing Zionism with Nazism? Please.

I have no problem backing that up. The zionists worked with the Nazis and Gaza has been called the largest concentration camp on earth by anyone who has seen it.

Israel today is almost entirely white, the near entirely white government has ruled since they came from another continent over the darker people including the darker Jews. And weather you call it white supremacist, zionist supremacist, European supremacist, I don't care. It's vile and the settlements are even worse.

Please grab some books and do some reading. If you would like suggestions for books, please message me.