Actually, it's more complicated than your effort to sweep it all away would acknowledge.
IF (and it is true) the schools in Indonesia noted (on the school records) that young Barack's citizenship was "Indonesian,"
then it can only be true that EITHER (1) President Obama is Constitutionally ineligible to be President of the United States OR (2) the Indonesian school records were falsified by the Obama family AT the time of his application to be admitted into that school.
As to the former (number 1), IF the President at any time in his life was a citizen of Indonesia, which does not recognize dual citizenship, then in order for him to BECOME a U.S. citizen, he would have to be naturalized. (If he was a citizen of Indonesia who never got naturalized, that's even worse, for in that case he's STILL a citizen of Indonesia -- not a citizen of the United States). If he is a U.S. citizen because he got naturalized, then he is not a natural born U.S. citizen. And he would then be Constitutionally ineligible to be President. {NOTE HOWEVER -- there is a very legitimate possible rebuttal to the foregoing musings. It is doubtful that the young Barack could "renounce" his U.S. citizenship based just on the actions of his parents, without more. SO, maybe none of that stuff ever did terminate his U.S. citizenship -- assuming he was born in Hawaii.}
But, as to the latter (number 2), IF the President's family lied about his claimed Indonesian citizenship on his school application papers, then we know that his family was willing and able to lie about his citizenship. This is why the Certification of Live Birth -- based on a shitload of hearsay type information -- was always less than persuasive. It is not difficult to imagine the pregnant mother of the future President being unable to fly and having to give birth in Kenya, instead. And it does not require a massive conspiracy theory to figure that she was bright enough to realize that this scenario might cause her newborn baby some future difficulties as to citizenship. (No thought of his being a possible President required to be concerned about the legal ramifications of his citizenship).
Actually, it's more complicated than your effort to sweep it all away would acknowledge.
IF (and it is true) the schools in Indonesia noted (on the school records) that young Barack's citizenship was "Indonesian,"
then it can only be true that EITHER (1) President Obama is Constitutionally ineligible to be President of the United States OR (2) the Indonesian school records were falsified by the Obama family AT the time of his application to be admitted into that school.
As to the former (number 1), IF the President at any time in his life was a citizen of Indonesia, which does not recognize dual citizenship, then in order for him to BECOME a U.S. citizen, he would have to be naturalized. (If he was a citizen of Indonesia who never got naturalized, that's even worse, for in that case he's STILL a citizen of Indonesia -- not a citizen of the United States). If he is a U.S. citizen because he got naturalized, then he is not a natural born U.S. citizen. And he would then be Constitutionally ineligible to be President. {NOTE HOWEVER -- there is a very legitimate possible rebuttal to the foregoing musings. It is doubtful that the young Barack could "renounce" his U.S. citizenship based just on the actions of his parents, without more. SO, maybe none of that stuff ever did terminate his U.S. citizenship -- assuming he was born in Hawaii.}
But, as to the latter (number 2), IF the President's family lied about his claimed Indonesian citizenship on his school application papers, then we know that his family was willing and able to lie about his citizenship. This is why the Certification of Live Birth -- based on a shitload of hearsay type information -- was always less than persuasive. It is not difficult to imagine the pregnant mother of the future President being unable to fly and having to give birth in Kenya, instead. And it does not require a massive conspiracy theory to figure that she was bright enough to realize that this scenario might cause her newborn baby some future difficulties as to citizenship. (No thought of his being a possible President required to be concerned about the legal ramifications of his citizenship).
I think it takes a flaming ******* idiot to be a Birther. I R-e-a-l-l-y do.
When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.’s children:
British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.
In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.
Obama’s British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:
1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963…
2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.
As a citizen of the UKC who was born in Kenya, Obama’s father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UKC status at birth and given that Obama’s father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), it follows that Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship after 1963. So The Rocky Mountain News was at least partially correct.
But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya’s Constitution specifies that at age 23, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.
Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1984.
FactCheck.org : Obama’s Kenyan Citizenship?
Actually, it's more complicated than your effort to sweep it all away would acknowledge.
IF (and it is true) the schools in Indonesia noted (on the school records) that young Barack's citizenship was "Indonesian,"
then it can only be true that EITHER (1) President Obama is Constitutionally ineligible to be President of the United States OR (2) the Indonesian school records were falsified by the Obama family AT the time of his application to be admitted into that school.
As to the former (number 1), IF the President at any time in his life was a citizen of Indonesia, which does not recognize dual citizenship, then in order for him to BECOME a U.S. citizen, he would have to be naturalized. (If he was a citizen of Indonesia who never got naturalized, that's even worse, for in that case he's STILL a citizen of Indonesia -- not a citizen of the United States). If he is a U.S. citizen because he got naturalized, then he is not a natural born U.S. citizen. And he would then be Constitutionally ineligible to be President. {NOTE HOWEVER -- there is a very legitimate possible rebuttal to the foregoing musings. It is doubtful that the young Barack could "renounce" his U.S. citizenship based just on the actions of his parents, without more. SO, maybe none of that stuff ever did terminate his U.S. citizenship -- assuming he was born in Hawaii.}
But, as to the latter (number 2), IF the President's family lied about his claimed Indonesian citizenship on his school application papers, then we know that his family was willing and able to lie about his citizenship. This is why the Certification of Live Birth -- based on a shitload of hearsay type information -- was always less than persuasive. It is not difficult to imagine the pregnant mother of the future President being unable to fly and having to give birth in Kenya, instead. And it does not require a massive conspiracy theory to figure that she was bright enough to realize that this scenario might cause her newborn baby some future difficulties as to citizenship. (No thought of his being a possible President required to be concerned about the legal ramifications of his citizenship).
I think it takes a flaming ******* idiot to be a Birther. I R-e-a-l-l-y do.
When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.’s children:
British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.
In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.
Obama’s British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:
1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963…
2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.
As a citizen of the UKC who was born in Kenya, Obama’s father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UKC status at birth and given that Obama’s father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), it follows that Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship after 1963. So The Rocky Mountain News was at least partially correct.
But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya’s Constitution specifies that at age 23, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.
Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1984.
FactCheck.org : Obama’s Kenyan Citizenship?
None of which addresses the post of mine to which you were supposedly responding.
Why?
Because the "nationality" listed there is Indonesian. And the point of that is that IF he was Indonesian, it MIGHT be the case that he was no longer a U.S. citizen.
Alternatively, if he was NOT actually Indonesian, then we have some evidence that his family was willing to and capable of lying on records regarding young Barack's citizenship.
Plus -- your entire post is premised on the notion that the lad was born in Hawaii. While I am content to accept that, the "question" is still not properly answered by assuming the ultimate conclusion AS the premise.
Actually, it's more complicated than your effort to sweep it all away would acknowledge.
IF (and it is true) the schools in Indonesia noted (on the school records) that young Barack's citizenship was "Indonesian,"
then it can only be true that EITHER (1) President Obama is Constitutionally ineligible to be President of the United States OR (2) the Indonesian school records were falsified by the Obama family AT the time of his application to be admitted into that school.
As to the former (number 1), IF the President at any time in his life was a citizen of Indonesia, which does not recognize dual citizenship, then in order for him to BECOME a U.S. citizen, he would have to be naturalized. (If he was a citizen of Indonesia who never got naturalized, that's even worse, for in that case he's STILL a citizen of Indonesia -- not a citizen of the United States). If he is a U.S. citizen because he got naturalized, then he is not a natural born U.S. citizen. And he would then be Constitutionally ineligible to be President. {NOTE HOWEVER -- there is a very legitimate possible rebuttal to the foregoing musings. It is doubtful that the young Barack could "renounce" his U.S. citizenship based just on the actions of his parents, without more. SO, maybe none of that stuff ever did terminate his U.S. citizenship -- assuming he was born in Hawaii.}
But, as to the latter (number 2), IF the President's family lied about his claimed Indonesian citizenship on his school application papers, then we know that his family was willing and able to lie about his citizenship. This is why the Certification of Live Birth -- based on a shitload of hearsay type information -- was always less than persuasive. It is not difficult to imagine the pregnant mother of the future President being unable to fly and having to give birth in Kenya, instead. And it does not require a massive conspiracy theory to figure that she was bright enough to realize that this scenario might cause her newborn baby some future difficulties as to citizenship. (No thought of his being a possible President required to be concerned about the legal ramifications of his citizenship).
I think it takes a flaming ******* idiot to be a Birther. I R-e-a-l-l-y do.
When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdoms dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.s children:
British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.
In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.
Obamas British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:
1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963
2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.
As a citizen of the UKC who was born in Kenya, Obamas father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UKC status at birth and given that Obamas father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), it follows that Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship after 1963. So The Rocky Mountain News was at least partially correct.
But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenyas Constitution specifies that at age 23, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.
Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1984.
FactCheck.org : Obamas Kenyan Citizenship?
None of which addresses the post of mine to which you were supposedly responding.
Why?
Because the "nationality" listed there is Indonesian. And the point of that is that IF he was Indonesian, it MIGHT be the case that he was no longer a U.S. citizen.
Alternatively, if he was NOT actually Indonesian, then we have some evidence that his family was willing to and capable of lying on records regarding young Barack's citizenship.
Plus -- your entire post is premised on the notion that the lad was born in Hawaii. While I am content to accept that, the "question" is still not properly answered by assuming the ultimate conclusion AS the premise.
But these cheese-ball corroborations based on circumstancial asinine and usually debunked idiocy - don't even corroborate anything. I mean, it says Honolulu right on the form. "tempat dan tanggal lahir" means "place of birth". Do you reckon Birfers can both use this form as a smoking gun, but also hold that he was born in Kenya?
The funny, albeit sad part of that last question - is that they actually tried to, in a Court of Law.
Look at line 3a. Then thrill me with your command of the Indonesian language.
But these cheese-ball corroborations based on circumstancial asinine and usually debunked idiocy - don't even corroborate anything. I mean, it says Honolulu right on the form. "tempat dan tanggal lahir" means "place of birth". Do you reckon Birfers can both use this form as a smoking gun, but also hold that he was born in Kenya?
The funny, albeit sad part of that last question - is that they actually tried to, in a Court of Law.
He was born in Hawaii (assuming he was) because an ultimately released Birth Certificate says so.
The ******* "Certification of Live Birth" is horse shit.
But again -- it has to be delierate by you -- you studiously miss the point.
IF (as you believe and I assume) he was born in Hawaii, as reflected on the Indonesian school record, that SAME record also lists his "citizenship" as -- Indonesian.
This entails the possibility that he had BECOME an Indonesian. Then, in order to become an American (again) he would have had to have gotten citizenship through naturalization.
And when the lad went to college, not having come from great wealth, did he apply for and receive financial aid based on his non-US citizenship?
Well, the college records would be a good clue. I'd like to know if he THEN claimed to have been a foreigner. And even if he was STILL (actually) a U.S. citizen, it would be a good thing to vet this. Why? Because I'd love to find out if he lied to get financial aid.
Look at line 3a. Then thrill me with your command of the Indonesian language.
But these cheese-ball corroborations based on circumstancial asinine and usually debunked idiocy - don't even corroborate anything. I mean, it says Honolulu right on the form. "tempat dan tanggal lahir" means "place of birth". Do you reckon Birfers can both use this form as a smoking gun, but also hold that he was born in Kenya?
The funny, albeit sad part of that last question - is that they actually tried to, in a Court of Law.
He was born in Hawaii (assuming he was) because an ultimately released Birth Certificate says so.
The ******* "Certification of Live Birth" is horse shit.
But again -- it has to be deliberate by you -- you studiously miss the point.
IF (as you believe and I assume) he was born in Hawaii, as reflected on the Indonesian school record, that SAME record also lists his "citizenship" as -- Indonesian.
This entails the possibility that he had BECOME an Indonesian. Then, in order to become an American (again) he would have had to have gotten citizenship through naturalization.
And when the lad went to college, not having come from great wealth, did he apply for and receive financial aid based on his non-US citizenship?
Well, the college records would be a good clue. I'd like to know if he THEN claimed to have been a foreigner. And even if he was STILL (actually) a U.S. citizen, it would be a good thing to vet this. Why? Because I'd love to find out if he lied to get financial aid.
Look at line 3a. Then thrill me with your command of the Indonesian language.
But these cheese-ball corroborations based on circumstancial asinine and usually debunked idiocy - don't even corroborate anything. I mean, it says Honolulu right on the form. "tempat dan tanggal lahir" means "place of birth". Do you reckon Birfers can both use this form as a smoking gun, but also hold that he was born in Kenya?
The funny, albeit sad part of that last question - is that they actually tried to, in a Court of Law.
He was born in Hawaii (assuming he was) because an ultimately released Birth Certificate says so.
The ******* "Certification of Live Birth" is horse shit.
But again -- it has to be delierate by you -- you studiously miss the point.
IF (as you believe and I assume) he was born in Hawaii, as reflected on the Indonesian school record, that SAME record also lists his "citizenship" as -- Indonesian.
This entails the possibility that he had BECOME an Indonesian. Then, in order to become an American (again) he would have had to have gotten citizenship through naturalization.
And when the lad went to college, not having come from great wealth, did he apply for and receive financial aid based on his non-US citizenship?
Well, the college records would be a good clue. I'd like to know if he THEN claimed to have been a foreigner. And even if he was STILL (actually) a U.S. citizen, it would be a good thing to vet this. Why? Because I'd love to find out if he lied to get financial aid.
I'm sure you would love to.
Birther: he wasnt born here.
Birther: ok he was born here but he's not a citizen.
No clues to a vested interest, predetermined bias thus cherry-picked outcome.
No, none at all.
Look at line 3a. Then thrill me with your command of the Indonesian language.
But these cheese-ball corroborations based on circumstancial asinine and usually debunked idiocy - don't even corroborate anything. I mean, it says Honolulu right on the form. "tempat dan tanggal lahir" means "place of birth". Do you reckon Birfers can both use this form as a smoking gun, but also hold that he was born in Kenya?
The funny, albeit sad part of that last question - is that they actually tried to, in a Court of Law.
He was born in Hawaii (assuming he was) because an ultimately released Birth Certificate says so.
The ******* "Certification of Live Birth" is horse shit.
But again -- it has to be deliberate by you -- you studiously miss the point.
IF (as you believe and I assume) he was born in Hawaii, as reflected on the Indonesian school record, that SAME record also lists his "citizenship" as -- Indonesian.
This entails the possibility that he had BECOME an Indonesian. Then, in order to become an American (again) he would have had to have gotten citizenship through naturalization.
And when the lad went to college, not having come from great wealth, did he apply for and receive financial aid based on his non-US citizenship?
Well, the college records would be a good clue. I'd like to know if he THEN claimed to have been a foreigner. And even if he was STILL (actually) a U.S. citizen, it would be a good thing to vet this. Why? Because I'd love to find out if he lied to get financial aid.
It was mistranslated; it should have said "Hawaii" instead of "Indonesia"
