We Need to Have School Choice Because Our Public Schools are Failing

[rightwinger]

Alethia got me started on this, lol, but my eyes have been opened as to how bad our public schools have become across the whole country.


Disruptive Students force teachers to evacuate classrooms



Oregon classrooms in crisis



New Jersey public schools in chaos



Green Bay Award Winning Teacher resigns due to safety concerns and describes



Teachers quitting due to chaos and violence



Georgia students cause teachers to quit
Why Teachers Quit? Student Behavior

Trump is president...he appointed Besty Devos….she will fix public education, that is what she is there for....ain't she??

All Betsy cares about is diverting federal funds to private institutions

 

[Polishprince]

Alethia got me started on this, lol, but my eyes have been opened as to how bad our public schools have become across the whole country.


Disruptive Students force teachers to evacuate classrooms



Oregon classrooms in crisis



New Jersey public schools in chaos



Green Bay Award Winning Teacher resigns due to safety concerns and describes



Teachers quitting due to chaos and violence



Georgia students cause teachers to quit
Why Teachers Quit? Student Behavior

Trump is president...he appointed Besty Devos….she will fix public education, that is what she is there for....ain't she??

All Betsy cares about is diverting federal funds to private institutions

That's the job of the Secretary of Education. Were you aware of the amount of federal funds diverted to private institutions like Harvard and even religious ones like Georgetown since the Education Dept was founded by Jimmy Carter?

 

[skews13]

Um I have been sounding this gong for a few years now. These evacuation circumstances are not at ALL "rare" and it is NOT the problem of the "public schools". You could disband every single public school today and you would still have this problem. It's a SOCIETY problem.

Close. What the OP left out is the reality part. Public schools are paid for with local property taxes. It was designed that way on purpose, because in wealthier, predominately white suburban districts, public schools are thriving. In poorer, predominately black, inner city and rural districts, schools are struggling to just stay maintained.

School choice is just another right wing talking point. There's no such thing. State laws dictate that school age children have to attend the schools inside of their districts. And how do you think students in poorer districts would get to schools in other districts, even if their parents made the choice to send them there? And what does this do to class sizes in those schools outside of their districts? It's bullshit on it's face. It's also curious, since these right wingers property taxes don't go to schools outside of their districts anyway.

You want to make schools better? Require state taxes in every state to pay for schools uniformly through income, and sales taxes, with the federal government matching the taxes each state pays towards their schools. States that do not have state income taxes, get no federal matching dollars. Watch how fast states figure out how to come up with tax dollars, to get matching federal funds.

 

[Correll]

Um I have been sounding this gong for a few years now. These evacuation circumstances are not at ALL "rare" and it is NOT the problem of the "public schools". You could disband every single public school today and you would still have this problem. It's a SOCIETY problem.

Well, yes and no. Private schools do often seem to deal with it better, even if dealing with it, is just shit canning the fucked up kids, instead of letting them shit can the whole class.

Private Schools get to dispose of their problems
Public Schools must deal with them

So, do we change the rules so that the problems don't ruin the whole schools,


or do we just accept the failure of vast segments of the population, as part of normal?


Keeping in mind, that the primary driver of educational outcome, is parental involvement, not the schools, and certainly not the amount of money spent in the school.

 

[Polishprince]

You want to make schools better? Require state taxes in every state to pay for schools uniformly through income, and sales taxes, with the federal government matching the taxes each state pays towards their schools. States that do not have state income taxes, get no federal matching dollars. Watch how fast states figure out how to come up with tax dollars, to get matching federal funds.

The liberal panacea is always the same for any problem. Massive tax increases and strict centralized control. Sounds a lot like the North Korean model.

 

[JoeB131]

I went to private school , and believe me, the nuns and the brothers dealt with problems very efficiently.

Here's the thing. They don't have those nuns and brothers anymore. Mostly because we told people it was okay to be gay now, and they didn't force little Timmy into a seminary when he started singing show tunes.

Yes, they did deal with things differently. When they weren't physically abusing the kids, they were SEXUALLY abusing them. Yes, we were all in terror of Brother McPedo, for some reason.

Although some children have been expelled over the years, for the most part, children begin to learn and stay after they have been curb stomped or receive other motivation.

Not really. The Catholic Schools don't take the learning disability kids or behavioral problems to start with.

 

[skews13]

You want to make schools better? Require state taxes in every state to pay for schools uniformly through income, and sales taxes, with the federal government matching the taxes each state pays towards their schools. States that do not have state income taxes, get no federal matching dollars. Watch how fast states figure out how to come up with tax dollars, to get matching federal funds.

The liberal panacea is always the same for any problem. Massive tax increases and strict centralized control. Sounds a lot like the North Korean model.

The conjob panacea is always the same. Create problems, and deny, and cry when they get called out on it.

This crap has worked for you since the beginning. Well, say hello to the end. But you do have options. You can act like you've got some sense, and create a society that works for everybody, or you can move to your new home in Russia, learnt to love long cold winters, and we can just take over the entire infrastructure of the United States, and create that society quite easily without you.

 

[rightwinger]

Not sure how school choice works

If everyone chooses to go to the best school, how do we fit them?

 

[Polishprince]

Not sure how school choice works

If everyone chooses to go to the best school, how do we fit them?

Each student has a different idea of what a "best school" is, RW.

Some prefer schools with no discipline whatsoever, where the kids are permitted to run free. Others prefer a stricter, more studious environment.

Of course, there are specialized schools, like Madrassas aka Islamic seminaries like where Obama attended,or yeshivas for Jewish children. In the major liberal cities, they actually have schools which are strictly for Homos and people of other diverse sexual preferences.

 

[SweetSue92]

Um I have been sounding this gong for a few years now. These evacuation circumstances are not at ALL "rare" and it is NOT the problem of the "public schools". You could disband every single public school today and you would still have this problem. It's a SOCIETY problem.

Close. What the OP left out is the reality part. Public schools are paid for with local property taxes. It was designed that way on purpose, because in wealthier, predominately white suburban districts, public schools are thriving. In poorer, predominately black, inner city and rural districts, schools are struggling to just stay maintained.

School choice is just another right wing talking point. There's no such thing. State laws dictate that school age children have to attend the schools inside of their districts. And how do you think students in poorer districts would get to schools in other districts, even if their parents made the choice to send them there? And what does this do to class sizes in those schools outside of their districts? It's bullshit on it's face. It's also curious, since these right wingers property taxes don't go to schools outside of their districts anyway.

You want to make schools better? Require state taxes in every state to pay for schools uniformly through income, and sales taxes, with the federal government matching the taxes each state pays towards their schools. States that do not have state income taxes, get no federal matching dollars. Watch how fast states figure out how to come up with tax dollars, to get matching federal funds.

My state does not pay for schools with "local property taxes"

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Um I have been sounding this gong for a few years now. These evacuation circumstances are not at ALL "rare" and it is NOT the problem of the "public schools". You could disband every single public school today and you would still have this problem. It's a SOCIETY problem.

Close. What the OP left out is the reality part. Public schools are paid for with local property taxes. It was designed that way on purpose, because in wealthier, predominately white suburban districts, public schools are thriving. In poorer, predominately black, inner city and rural districts, schools are struggling to just stay maintained.

School choice is just another right wing talking point. There's no such thing. State laws dictate that school age children have to attend the schools inside of their districts. And how do you think students in poorer districts would get to schools in other districts, even if their parents made the choice to send them there? And what does this do to class sizes in those schools outside of their districts? It's bullshit on it's face. It's also curious, since these right wingers property taxes don't go to schools outside of their districts anyway.

You want to make schools better? Require state taxes in every state to pay for schools uniformly through income, and sales taxes, with the federal government matching the taxes each state pays towards their schools. States that do not have state income taxes, get no federal matching dollars. Watch how fast states figure out how to come up with tax dollars, to get matching federal funds.

My state does not pay for schools with "local property taxes"

Which state is that? I find that very hard to believe since most schools are funded from state property taxes as their primary source of revenue. If true, you are the exception rather than the rule.

 

[SweetSue92]

Um I have been sounding this gong for a few years now. These evacuation circumstances are not at ALL "rare" and it is NOT the problem of the "public schools". You could disband every single public school today and you would still have this problem. It's a SOCIETY problem.

Close. What the OP left out is the reality part. Public schools are paid for with local property taxes. It was designed that way on purpose, because in wealthier, predominately white suburban districts, public schools are thriving. In poorer, predominately black, inner city and rural districts, schools are struggling to just stay maintained.

School choice is just another right wing talking point. There's no such thing. State laws dictate that school age children have to attend the schools inside of their districts. And how do you think students in poorer districts would get to schools in other districts, even if their parents made the choice to send them there? And what does this do to class sizes in those schools outside of their districts? It's bullshit on it's face. It's also curious, since these right wingers property taxes don't go to schools outside of their districts anyway.

You want to make schools better? Require state taxes in every state to pay for schools uniformly through income, and sales taxes, with the federal government matching the taxes each state pays towards their schools. States that do not have state income taxes, get no federal matching dollars. Watch how fast states figure out how to come up with tax dollars, to get matching federal funds.

My state does not pay for schools with "local property taxes"

Which state is that? I find that very hard to believe since most schools are funded from state property taxes as their primary source of revenue. If true, you are the exception rather than the rule.

MI. The property taxes are supposed to be spread out....for years now, districts cannot ask homeowners for millages for operating expenses. Proposal A it's called.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Um I have been sounding this gong for a few years now. These evacuation circumstances are not at ALL "rare" and it is NOT the problem of the "public schools". You could disband every single public school today and you would still have this problem. It's a SOCIETY problem.

Close. What the OP left out is the reality part. Public schools are paid for with local property taxes. It was designed that way on purpose, because in wealthier, predominately white suburban districts, public schools are thriving. In poorer, predominately black, inner city and rural districts, schools are struggling to just stay maintained.

School choice is just another right wing talking point. There's no such thing. State laws dictate that school age children have to attend the schools inside of their districts. And how do you think students in poorer districts would get to schools in other districts, even if their parents made the choice to send them there? And what does this do to class sizes in those schools outside of their districts? It's bullshit on it's face. It's also curious, since these right wingers property taxes don't go to schools outside of their districts anyway.

You want to make schools better? Require state taxes in every state to pay for schools uniformly through income, and sales taxes, with the federal government matching the taxes each state pays towards their schools. States that do not have state income taxes, get no federal matching dollars. Watch how fast states figure out how to come up with tax dollars, to get matching federal funds.

My state does not pay for schools with "local property taxes"

Which state is that? I find that very hard to believe since most schools are funded from state property taxes as their primary source of revenue. If true, you are the exception rather than the rule.

MI. The property taxes are supposed to be spread out....for years now, districts cannot ask homeowners for millages for operating expenses. Proposal A it's called.

Thank you for your response, but you apparently are glossing over many of the details.

"Public schools are now largely funded through a statewide 6-mil tax called the State Education Tax (SET), an 18-mil local tax on non-homestead property, and a combination of other taxes comprised of mostly the state income tax and the sales tax."

Funding for Schools

Your statement that your schools are not funded by "local property taxes" is technically true, but the state funds the schools.

 

[SweetSue92]

Um I have been sounding this gong for a few years now. These evacuation circumstances are not at ALL "rare" and it is NOT the problem of the "public schools". You could disband every single public school today and you would still have this problem. It's a SOCIETY problem.

Close. What the OP left out is the reality part. Public schools are paid for with local property taxes. It was designed that way on purpose, because in wealthier, predominately white suburban districts, public schools are thriving. In poorer, predominately black, inner city and rural districts, schools are struggling to just stay maintained.

School choice is just another right wing talking point. There's no such thing. State laws dictate that school age children have to attend the schools inside of their districts. And how do you think students in poorer districts would get to schools in other districts, even if their parents made the choice to send them there? And what does this do to class sizes in those schools outside of their districts? It's bullshit on it's face. It's also curious, since these right wingers property taxes don't go to schools outside of their districts anyway.

You want to make schools better? Require state taxes in every state to pay for schools uniformly through income, and sales taxes, with the federal government matching the taxes each state pays towards their schools. States that do not have state income taxes, get no federal matching dollars. Watch how fast states figure out how to come up with tax dollars, to get matching federal funds.

My state does not pay for schools with "local property taxes"

Which state is that? I find that very hard to believe since most schools are funded from state property taxes as their primary source of revenue. If true, you are the exception rather than the rule.

MI. The property taxes are supposed to be spread out....for years now, districts cannot ask homeowners for millages for operating expenses. Proposal A it's called.

Thank you for your response, but you apparently are glossing over many of the details.

"Public schools are now largely funded through a statewide 6-mil tax called the State Education Tax (SET), an 18-mil local tax on non-homestead property, and a combination of other taxes comprised of mostly the state income tax and the sales tax."

Funding for Schools

Your statement that your schools are not funded by "local property taxes" is technically true, but the state funds the schools.

Sure, the state funds the schools. But not local property taxes, very different from our neighboring Ohio, where local citizens are always facing millages to fund schools

 

[rightwinger]

Not sure how school choice works

If everyone chooses to go to the best school, how do we fit them?

Each student has a different idea of what a "best school" is, RW.

Some prefer schools with no discipline whatsoever, where the kids are permitted to run free. Others prefer a stricter, more studious environment.

Of course, there are specialized schools, like Madrassas aka Islamic seminaries like where Obama attended,or yeshivas for Jewish children. In the major liberal cities, they actually have schools which are strictly for Homos and people of other diverse sexual preferences.

Parents decide. Some schools in a district have great facilities, winning sports teams, good teachers.......others don’t

What happens when every parent takes their voucher and wants to go to the “good school”?

 

[Correll]

Not sure how school choice works

If everyone chooses to go to the best school, how do we fit them?

Each student has a different idea of what a "best school" is, RW.

Some prefer schools with no discipline whatsoever, where the kids are permitted to run free. Others prefer a stricter, more studious environment.

Of course, there are specialized schools, like Madrassas aka Islamic seminaries like where Obama attended,or yeshivas for Jewish children. In the major liberal cities, they actually have schools which are strictly for Homos and people of other diverse sexual preferences.

Parents decide. Some schools in a district have great facilities, winning sports teams, good teachers.......others don’t

What happens when every parent takes their voucher and wants to go to the “good school”?

And the money spent, has no significant impact on educational outcomes. We have known this since the 60s.


When every parent takes their voucher and goes to the good schools, the good schools grow to the new numbers and the crap schools die.

 

[Polishprince]

Not sure how school choice works

If everyone chooses to go to the best school, how do we fit them?

Each student has a different idea of what a "best school" is, RW.

Some prefer schools with no discipline whatsoever, where the kids are permitted to run free. Others prefer a stricter, more studious environment.

Of course, there are specialized schools, like Madrassas aka Islamic seminaries like where Obama attended,or yeshivas for Jewish children. In the major liberal cities, they actually have schools which are strictly for Homos and people of other diverse sexual preferences.

Parents decide. Some schools in a district have great facilities, winning sports teams, good teachers.......others don’t

What happens when every parent takes their voucher and wants to go to the “good school”?

That's where the market takes over, RW.

Top flight schools will ask that parents pony up money in addition to the Vouchers, escalating amounts depending upon the quality of the school.

 

[Polishprince]

Not sure how school choice works

If everyone chooses to go to the best school, how do we fit them?

Each student has a different idea of what a "best school" is, RW.

Some prefer schools with no discipline whatsoever, where the kids are permitted to run free. Others prefer a stricter, more studious environment.

Of course, there are specialized schools, like Madrassas aka Islamic seminaries like where Obama attended,or yeshivas for Jewish children. In the major liberal cities, they actually have schools which are strictly for Homos and people of other diverse sexual preferences.

Parents decide. Some schools in a district have great facilities, winning sports teams, good teachers.......others don’t

What happens when every parent takes their voucher and wants to go to the “good school”?

And the money spent, has no significant impact on educational outcomes. We have known this since the 60s.


When every parent takes their voucher and goes to the good schools, the good schools grow to the new numbers and the crap schools die.

The price of education really doesn't necessarily indicate quality.

The private institution I attended had much lower costs that the Governmental institutions, but had much better results. I don't know what you think Nuns get paid, but believe me, it isn't much. These broads love to teach, and they have tremendous patented methods to get the lessons across to the children. It isn't the money that attracts them to the profession.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Not sure how school choice works

If everyone chooses to go to the best school, how do we fit them?

Each student has a different idea of what a "best school" is, RW.

Some prefer schools with no discipline whatsoever, where the kids are permitted to run free. Others prefer a stricter, more studious environment.

Of course, there are specialized schools, like Madrassas aka Islamic seminaries like where Obama attended,or yeshivas for Jewish children. In the major liberal cities, they actually have schools which are strictly for Homos and people of other diverse sexual preferences.

Parents decide. Some schools in a district have great facilities, winning sports teams, good teachers.......others don’t

What happens when every parent takes their voucher and wants to go to the “good school”?

And the money spent, has no significant impact on educational outcomes. We have known this since the 60s.


When every parent takes their voucher and goes to the good schools, the good schools grow to the new numbers and the crap schools die.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Not sure how school choice works

If everyone chooses to go to the best school, how do we fit them?

Each student has a different idea of what a "best school" is, RW.

Some prefer schools with no discipline whatsoever, where the kids are permitted to run free. Others prefer a stricter, more studious environment.

Of course, there are specialized schools, like Madrassas aka Islamic seminaries like where Obama attended,or yeshivas for Jewish children. In the major liberal cities, they actually have schools which are strictly for Homos and people of other diverse sexual preferences.

Parents decide. Some schools in a district have great facilities, winning sports teams, good teachers.......others don’t

What happens when every parent takes their voucher and wants to go to the “good school”?

That's where the market takes over, RW.

Top flight schools will ask that parents pony up money in addition to the Vouchers, escalating amounts depending upon the quality of the school.

So poor students are left SOL?

That's not a solution.