We need satellite defense, not a "Golden Dome".

MarathonMike

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I don't agree with Trump on everything and I disagree with the concept of covering the entire US with an "Iron Dome" like shield similar to Israel. The geographic differences make it impossible to be effective especially with the arrival of hyper-sonic missiles. We need a space based satellite defense system because China is already developing space based weapons that they would surely use to target our satellites. We had better have at least equal capability with China or they could completely cripple us without ever touching US soil.
 
I don't agree with Trump on everything and I disagree with the concept of covering the entire US with an "Iron Dome" like shield similar to Israel. The geographic differences make it impossible to be effective especially with the arrival of hyper-sonic missiles. We need a space based satellite defense system because China is already developing space based weapons that they would surely use to target our satellites. We had better have at least equal capability with China or they could completely cripple us without ever touching US soil.
Satellite defense is complicated by the fact that all of our satellites orbit over their countries also. How do we protect something on the other side of the planet?
 
I don't agree with Trump on everything and I disagree with the concept of covering the entire US with an "Iron Dome" like shield similar to Israel. The geographic differences make it impossible to be effective especially with the arrival of hyper-sonic missiles. We need a space based satellite defense system because China is already developing space based weapons that they would surely use to target our satellites. We had better have at least equal capability with China or they could completely cripple us without ever touching US soil.
Chemical and biological weapons are outlawed too. We saw how that worked with covid. I agree, We definitely need satellite based defenses and a defense system for the satellites.
 
Satellite defense is complicated by the fact that all of our satellites orbit over their countries also. How do we protect something on the other side of the planet?

Not only that, they are amazingly easy to knock out. Hell, the US itself first proved that four decades ago.

That is why the cornerstone for the last three decades has been ground based systems.
 
I don't agree with Trump on everything and I disagree with the concept of covering the entire US with an "Iron Dome" like shield similar to Israel. The geographic differences make it impossible to be effective especially with the arrival of hyper-sonic missiles. We need a space based satellite defense system because China is already developing space based weapons that they would surely use to target our satellites. We had better have at least equal capability with China or they could completely cripple us without ever touching US soil.
 
One item for consideration;
China, which appears to be our largest and most likely enemy in near future, is rapidly working to expand from about 400 nuclear warheads to 1,500+ by 2035; or per other sources between 4,200 to 8,000. In their Northern deserts they are building three separate missile silo fields which will hold between @250 to 360 of their DF-41 missile. Which can hold up to 10 warheads and has a range of 9,300 miles. - from: "Plan Red"; Gordon Chang, pages 69-70.

See also;
 
For reference;
...
In a January 27 executive order, President Trump mandated the development of a robust missile shield for the U.S., citing the success of Israel’s Iron Dome in defending against short-range rocket attacks.

The directive aimed to accelerate research and development for a system capable of countering ballistic missiles, hypersonic weapons, and advanced cruise missile threats.

“The threat of attack by ballistic, hypersonic, and cruise missiles, and other advanced aerial attacks, remains the most catastrophic threat facing the United States,” a portion of the order reads.

However, unlike Israel, which faces persistent rocket fire from nearby adversaries, the U.S. contends with a vastly different threat landscape—one that includes long-range ballistic missiles from state actors like China and Russia, as well as advanced cruise missiles and hypersonic weapons.

While some speculate that the missile defense initiative’s rebranding reflects the President’s preference for golden aesthetics, the new name can equally signify the Golden Dome’s expanded scope and advanced technological ambitions.
...

 
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Plan Red - Point of View

Plan Red Ebook by Gordon G. Chang - hoopla

Gordon Chang to Newsmax: Didn't Hear About China in the Deba

By Kate McManus | Thursday, 03 October 2024 09:52 PM EDT

China has declared a "people's war" on America, and you didn't hear about it in the debates because our leaders are ignoring it, China expert and author Gordon Chang told Newsmax on Thursday.

Chang's latest book, "Plan Red: China's Project to Destroy America," came out Tuesday. In it, he talks about China's desire to remake the world in its image, and how it would have to demolish the U.S. to do so.

On "Rob Schmitt Tonight," Chang said, "The American people misperceive the challenge and the assault from China, and especially, our political class does — both Republicans and Democrats. I wanted to lay out what the Chinese actually say about us.
....
Chang also said former President Donald Trump scared "the bejesus" out of Chinese President Xi Jinping.

"Xi Jinping, although he's an aggressor, he actually behaved for the four years of the Trump administration because he didn't know what the president of the United States was going to do with our power. Under [Joe] Biden, he knows exactly what the president would do," he said.
...

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/gordon-chang-china-xi-jinping/2024/10/03/id/1182807/
 
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Systems to defend our satellites, along with systems to attack "theirs" might be something that could be incorporated with "Golden Dome".
 
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Systems to defend our satellites, along with systems to attack "there's" might be something that could be incorporated with "Golden Dome".
Telling ours from theirs will require putting quantum computers on every satellite.

And there are commercial satellites that are almost as important as the military ones.
 
Telling ours from theirs will require putting quantum computers on every satellite.

And there are commercial satellites that are almost as important as the military ones.
That's the job for the 'new' Space Force. Last I knew, they have the ID and track of anything Earth-made in orbit.
Mainly want to target any anti-sats they have in orbit and also any that would aid navigation of their missiles.
 
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Telling ours from theirs will require putting quantum computers on every satellite.

Not really. We know the location of things like that with a high degree of accuracy. They follow very predictable patterns, so it is easy to know when they are overhead and when they are not.

Here, this should give an example.


Now this is a testing location on the White Sands Missile Range, and one I am very familiar with. This is literally the "Birthplace of the PATRIOT Missile", right there. From the late 1960s until the middle 1970s, that is where the system was first tested and employed.

Now one of the things that stands out if you are actually there on the ground is that strange "line" that runs diagonally from lower left to upper right. Just north of the complex of buildings. That is actually a set of railroad tracks, about 30 meters from rail to rail. And the big grey thing on there is actually a building that can be moved along those rails.

Back in the 1970s when PATRIOT was first being tested, that is where it was done. And they knew when Soviet spy satellites would pass overhead. So when the satellite was close to passing over, they would move that building over the launcher so it could not be seen from space. And once it had passed they would move that building away and continue testing.

And that strange horseshoe north of the tracks and building, that is a berm where the moved the first launcher to for life fire testing. And back in the day, the entire thing was covered with camouflage netting, that could still be seen rotting inside. Continue along the tracks and out into the desert a little ways, and there is this "star" pattern. Back when they were developing and testing PATRIOT, they had a HAWK battery positioned there in the classic "Star Pattern ADA configuration".

That was not there for any kind of defense, that was camouflage and a distraction. So when the Soviets discovered that location and the activity there, they would see the HAWK battery and just assume that is all it was. That the US was improving an old air defense system, not creating an entirely new air defense system.

Then later when the first full batteries were known and being tested, they actually would employ PATRIOT in those same locations. Once again, a distraction. Because unlike other air defense systems of the era, it actually can not operate in that layout because it uses an aimed RADAR array and not the old school "spinning RADAR" that gives 360 degree coverage. By doing that, it would fool the Soviets into thinking it was just a new missile for HAWK, but the same old RADAR (which still sat in the middle). It's gone now, but a decade ago there was actually a building there that was "canted" at a 45 degree angle. Back in that phase of testing, that was the actual RADAR system they were using. And they were only using the 2 or 3 launchers that were pointing in the direction of the RADAR.

Layers upon layers upon layers of cover, camouflage, and misdirection. Primarily because they knew exactly when Soviet satellites would pass overhead, and how to quickly change it so that it looked nothing like what was really going on.

And that location was used for decades. Go a bit west down that road, and you can see the remains of what seem to be blown up places. Those were actually the original testing pads for the older NIKE system. Those were all destroyed as part of the 1972 ABM treaty with the Soviet Union.

But looking at all the things there, it can be clearly seen many of the things during the Cold War that the US did in order to keep the Soviets from finding out about it. Primarily because they knew exactly when Soviet satellites would pass overhead, and could quickly convert the location from an active top secret R&D site to just another routine testing site in the desert.

And this is something that has not changed in the decades since. That is why recently China tried using balloons for such reconnaissance. Because they were not predictable, and not known about until discovered already over the country.
 
Not really. We know the location of things like that with a high degree of accuracy. They follow very predictable patterns, so it is easy to know when they are overhead and when they are not.

Here, this should give an example.


Now this is a testing location on the White Sands Missile Range, and one I am very familiar with. This is literally the "Birthplace of the PATRIOT Missile", right there. From the late 1960s until the middle 1970s, that is where the system was first tested and employed.

Now one of the things that stands out if you are actually there on the ground is that strange "line" that runs diagonally from lower left to upper right. Just north of the complex of buildings. That is actually a set of railroad tracks, about 30 meters from rail to rail. And the big grey thing on there is actually a building that can be moved along those rails.

Back in the 1970s when PATRIOT was first being tested, that is where it was done. And they knew when Soviet spy satellites would pass overhead. So when the satellite was close to passing over, they would move that building over the launcher so it could not be seen from space. And once it had passed they would move that building away and continue testing.

And that strange horseshoe north of the tracks and building, that is a berm where the moved the first launcher to for life fire testing. And back in the day, the entire thing was covered with camouflage netting, that could still be seen rotting inside. Continue along the tracks and out into the desert a little ways, and there is this "star" pattern. Back when they were developing and testing PATRIOT, they had a HAWK battery positioned there in the classic "Star Pattern ADA configuration".

That was not there for any kind of defense, that was camouflage and a distraction. So when the Soviets discovered that location and the activity there, they would see the HAWK battery and just assume that is all it was. That the US was improving an old air defense system, not creating an entirely new air defense system.

Then later when the first full batteries were known and being tested, they actually would employ PATRIOT in those same locations. Once again, a distraction. Because unlike other air defense systems of the era, it actually can not operate in that layout because it uses an aimed RADAR array and not the old school "spinning RADAR" that gives 360 degree coverage. By doing that, it would fool the Soviets into thinking it was just a new missile for HAWK, but the same old RADAR (which still sat in the middle). It's gone now, but a decade ago there was actually a building there that was "canted" at a 45 degree angle. Back in that phase of testing, that was the actual RADAR system they were using. And they were only using the 2 or 3 launchers that were pointing in the direction of the RADAR.

Layers upon layers upon layers of cover, camouflage, and misdirection. Primarily because they knew exactly when Soviet satellites would pass overhead, and how to quickly change it so that it looked nothing like what was really going on.

And that location was used for decades. Go a bit west down that road, and you can see the remains of what seem to be blown up places. Those were actually the original testing pads for the older NIKE system. Those were all destroyed as part of the 1972 ABM treaty with the Soviet Union.

But looking at all the things there, it can be clearly seen many of the things during the Cold War that the US did in order to keep the Soviets from finding out about it. Primarily because they knew exactly when Soviet satellites would pass overhead, and could quickly convert the location from an active top secret R&D site to just another routine testing site in the desert.

And this is something that has not changed in the decades since. That is why recently China tried using balloons for such reconnaissance. Because they were not predictable, and not known about until discovered already over the country.
I've spent many a summer day at the enlisted pool at WSMR. I lived in Las Cruces and would ride to base on the bus from the Nat'l Guard armory in LC to the base and swim all day for free. The E pool was much better than the NCO pool. Bigger, less crowded and no snobs and they had a high dive. Loved that place.
 
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