We Can't Grow Our Way Out of Debt

[danielpalos]

Was that based on Federal Taxes only, or did it include all of our Taxes?
It's deceptive when State, City and County Taxes are not added also.

"As the graph to the right illustrates, in 2010, the total (federal, state and local) tax revenue collected in the U.S. was equal to 24.8 percent of the U.S.’s GDP.

"The total taxes collected by other OECD countries that year was equal to 33.4 percent of combined GDP of those countries.

"As the table below illustrates, the U.S. has steadily moved closer and closer to becoming the least taxed OECD country over the past three decades."
The U.S. Continues to Be One of the Least Taxed of the Developed Countries CTJReports

Hypothetically, if government offered to decrease the tax burden of the poorest 90% of all taxpayers and make up the missing revenue by increasing taxes on the richest 10% of individuals and large corporations, would you support or oppose the changes?

Here is what some on the left consider supply side economics to be currently doing for the wealthiest until it "trickles down":

In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 34.6% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 50.5%. The top 20% of Americans owned 85% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 15%. From 1922 to 2010, the share of the top 1% varied from 19.7% to 44.2%, the big drop being associated with the drop in the stock market in the late 1970s. Ignoring the period where the stock market was depressed (1976-1980) and the period when the stock market was overvalued (1929), the share of wealth of the richest 1% remained extremely stable, at about a third of the total wealth.[20] Financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 42.7%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50.3%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.[21] However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 34.6% to 37.1%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 85% to 87.7%. The Great Recession also caused a drop of 36.1% in median household wealth but a drop of only 11.1% for the top 1%, further widening the gap between the 1% and the 99%.[19][20][21] During the economic expansion between 2002 and 2007, the income of the top 1% grew 10 times faster than the income of the bottom 90%. In this period 66% of total income gains went to the 1%, who in 2007 had a larger share of total income than at any time since 1928. -- Distribution of wealth - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Supply side economics should be supplying us with better governance at lower cost.

Didn't Venezuela stick it to the rich to help the poor?
How'd that work out?

don't know and don't really have to care since they don't have our social Contract and Constitution.

we could have solved simple poverty yesterday, but for the communism of the Right.

 

[Pksimon2007]

Are we talking about National Debt, or private debt?

If it's true there is always more debt that money in society, I'm thinking the answer to your question is both???

- National debt and private debt are quite different.

Continuous growth in private debt is probably unsustainable and certainly destabilizing, because it creates a repayment obligation.

The national debt is essentially the sum total of all money issues for our use which it has not taxed back from us.

To reduce the national debt to zero the government would have to tax back every dollar it has ever issued, which turns out to be every dollar in existence which is in encumbered by private debt.

 

[ScienceRocks]

The OP shows why Progressive economies fail 100% of the time and have the highest misery and poverty rates ever recorded in human history

Really? Western Europe, New Zealand, Canada, and even the UAH would say that you're full of crap. Government regulations are good for society and allowing for a safety net is a good idea. South Korea is yet another that proves that the public sector along with the private is the best recipe for success. I think you get a socialist state mixed up with social democratic.(Political science terms!)

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are we talking about National Debt, or private debt?

If it's true there is always more debt that money in society, I'm thinking the answer to your question is both???

- National debt and private debt are quite different.

Continuous growth in private debt is probably unsustainable and certainly destabilizing, because it creates a repayment obligation.

The national debt is essentially the sum total of all money issues for our use which it has not taxed back from us.

To reduce the national debt to zero the government would have to tax back every dollar it has ever issued, which turns out to be every dollar in existence which is in encumbered by private debt.

To reduce the national debt to zero the government would have to tax back every dollar it has ever issued, which turns out to be every dollar in existence which is in encumbered by private debt.

Wow, you're also wrong about this. I'm not surprised.

 

[Stephanie]

This isn't we the people problems really. We've been calling to slash and cut this MONSTER money sucking Government down to size for a long time

so I put the blame squarely on you bleeding heart lib/dem/progressives/commies, who wailed every time someone suggested a SMALL gawddamn cut down of them. 1% and you all go Ballistic. so sit down

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The OP shows why Progressive economies fail 100% of the time and have the highest misery and poverty rates ever recorded in human history

Really? Western Europe, New Zealand, Canada, and even the UAH would say that you're full of crap. Government regulations are good for society and allowing for a safety net is a good idea. South Korea is yet another that proves that the public sector along with the private is the best recipe for success. I think you get a socialist state mixed up with social democratic.(Political science terms!)

Western Europe meaning Greece? Spain? Italy?

 

[Stephanie]

I hope when we go bankrupt as a country. They come to your houses first who felt "sworry" for them all.

I'm lock loaded and ready in my comfortable home and if I want to go eat out anytime, I will

LOL, you people are so clueless and scary actually. and I'm referring to the people like the op.

 

[georgephillip]

Continuous growth in private debt is probably unsustainable and certainly destabilizing, because it creates a repayment obligation.

Is it possible to combine quantitative easing and jubilee?
"For example, what if quantitative easing were combined with debt forgiveness? The banks get bailout after bailout – what about the rest of us? The Fed could purchase student loans, mortgages or consumer debt and, by fiat, reduce interest rates on those loans to zero, or even reduce principal. That would liberate millions from the debt chase, while freeing up purchasing power for those who are truly underconsuming."
We can t grow ourselves out of debt no matter what the Federal Reserve does Charles Eisenstein Comment is free The Guardian

 

[georgephillip]

This isn't we the people problems really. We've been calling to slash and cut this MONSTER money sucking Government down to size for a long time

so I put the blame squarely on you bleeding heart lib/dem/progressives/commies, who wailed every time someone suggested a SMALL gawddamn cut down of them. 1% and you all go Ballistic. so sit down

Where is the most corruption, waste, and fraud to be found in the US Government?
United States Department of Defense defense.gov

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Government regulations are good for society

dear the USSR and Red China tried ever growing regulations and 120 million slowly starved to death.

Do you understand??

 

[Abishai100]

Apothecary Valuation


"I walked around with thirteen $1 bills in my pocket. I went to a carnival and went up to random people and told them, 'I have a bet for you if you're willing to take the wager: If you have enough change for $1 to trade my bills for coins without having to use a nickel, then we both win and it's a simple exchange, but if you need to use nickels to complete the $1 in change required, you have to give me $1 extra. In other words, do you have nickels in your pocket or not?' About 10 people accepted the wager at the carnival, and I made an extra $10 in change with a simple wager about the fun of pocket-jingling change."

This is a simple game performed with American coins (nickels, dimes, quarter, pennies, etc.). When the U.S. government enacted various intricate policies to standardize the distribution of silver, people took notice of the value of currency in our modern age of mercantilism-gauged traffic (i.e., eTrade).

This is the sort of game-theory thinking that the European Union uses to compete with the U.S. Dollar. The question is, how motivated are everyday Americans in thinking about currency (and coins) as they celebrate motility-themed comic book superhero avatars such as the fearsome Silver Surfer (Marvel Comics), a soaring muscular titan who represents a society curiosity about element valuation?

To compete in the modern free market, you actually have to care about what you're selling/using.







Silver Standard (Wikipedia)

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Apothecary Valuation


"I walked around with thirteen $1 bills in my pocket. I went to a carnival and went up to random people and told them, 'I have a bet for you if you're willing to take the wager: If you have enough change for $1 to trade my bills for coins without having to use a nickel, then we both win and it's a simple exchange, but if you need to use nickels to complete the $1 in change required, you have to give me $1 extra. In other words, do you have nickels in your pocket or not?' About 10 people accepted the wager at the carnival, and I made an extra $10 in change with a simple wager about the fun of pocket-jingling change."

This is a simple game performed with American coins (nickels, dimes, quarter, pennies, etc.). When the U.S. government enacted various intricate policies to standardize the distribution of silver, people took notice of the value of currency in our modern age of mercantilism-gauged traffic (i.e., eTrade).

This is the sort of game-theory thinking that the European Union uses to compete with the U.S. Dollar. The question is, how motivated are everyday Americans in thinking about currency (and coins) as they celebrate motility-themed comic book superhero avatars such as the fearsome Silver Surfer (Marvel Comics), a soaring muscular titan who represents a society curiosity about element valuation?

To compete in the modern free market, you actually have to care about what you're selling/using.







Silver Standard (Wikipedia)



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If you have enough change for $1 to trade my bills for coins without having to use a nickel, then we both win and it's a simple exchange

I'm curious how a simple exchange is a win for both sides.

but if you need to use nickels to complete the $1 in change required, you have to give me $1 extra.

Sounds like you ran into a bunch of stupid liberal people.
But then I repeat myself.

 

[ScienceRocks]

And we also can't blindly cut the shit out of public sector jobs or science institutions as we're doing it. IT solves not a fucking thing and we end up weaker for it.

Focus on military(cut bases), healthcare, welfare and demand accountability...Cutting things that make this a first world country that can compete is just short sighted...Cutting your nose off inspite your face.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And we also can't blindly cut the shit out of public sector jobs or science institutions as we're doing it. IT solves not a fucking thing and we end up weaker for it.

Focus on military(cut bases), healthcare, welfare and demand accountability...Cutting things that make this a first world country that can compete is just short sighted...Cutting your nose off inspite your face.

And we also can't blindly cut the shit out of public sector jobs or science institutions as we're doing it.

You keep whining about this, but I've never seen you post any proof.
Where have we cut public sector jobs? Link?
Where have we cut "scientific institutions"? Link?

 

[danielpalos]

We should "ditch our Drug War".

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And we also can't blindly cut the shit out of public sector jobs.

dear China just switched to capitalism and grew at 10% a year for 30 years. For you think public sector make work jobs and socialism are helpful is beyond stupid and liberal.

 

[danielpalos]

socialism has built entire cities.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

socialism has built entire cities.

It just can't stock them with toilet paper.

 

[danielpalos]

socialism has built entire cities.

It just can't stock them with toilet paper.

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs instead of just complaining about reducing the cost of government and "starving the beast".

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

socialism has built entire cities.

It just can't stock them with toilet paper.

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs instead of just complaining about reducing the cost of government and "starving the beast".

dude, command economies can even command maintenance staffs

Is that why communist countries are the most polluted in the world?