We are in big trouble

[WillowTree]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

I hold the Dems accountable for saving us from a depression and putting us on the road to recovery. Thanks to the stimulus, aka debt.

We are now in a real recovery and in position to rationally reduce the debt unless ....

Unless the whacked out reptards want retribution and drive us off the fiscal cliff.

Yay for democrats unicorn dreams and farts. It will Kerry us through all the way.

 

[WillowTree]

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

I hold the Dems accountable for saving us from a depression and putting us on the road to recovery. Thanks to the stimulus, aka debt.

We are now in a real recovery and in position to rationally reduce the debt unless ....

Unless the whacked out reptards want retribution and drive us off the fiscal cliff.

Like small businesses firing people after 18 tax cuts, to "spite" the President and because they buy into partisanship.

They cannot afford obamacare. They told you that before you rammed it down their throats. Well, you didn't listen. So. expect massive layoffs and reductions to part time and call everyone of them "sour grapes" that'll work for ya won't it?

 

[G.T.]

I hold the Dems accountable for saving us from a depression and putting us on the road to recovery. Thanks to the stimulus, aka debt.

We are now in a real recovery and in position to rationally reduce the debt unless ....

Unless the whacked out reptards want retribution and drive us off the fiscal cliff.

Like small businesses firing people after 18 tax cuts, to "spite" the President and because they buy into partisanship.

They cannot afford obamacare. They told you that before you rammed it down their throats. Well, you didn't listen. So. expect massive layoffs and reductions to part time and call everyone of them "sour grapes" that'll work for ya won't it?

Umm, they don't need to afford Obamacare unless they have over 50 employees, which isn't a "small" Business exactly, and once you have 50 employees if you can't afford to pay a portion of benefits, you blow as a business owner and deserve to be buried so that someone BETTER at business can come through and sweep-up your market share.

 

[konradv]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

This is about the third time Komrade Konradv has pretended that Obama has not sworn to veto the legislation which would address the 'fiscal cliff.'

It's also the third time you've neglected to give us a cite. How do we know you aren't just putting words in his mouth? The devil's in the details and you seem to be sorely lacking in them.

 

[Truthmatters]

Shut up. It's what the Americans voted for. They wanted misery and now they've got it. Stop complaining.

Willow the sad thing is uis you dont understand the majority of Americans are happy with the outcome of this election.

YOUR misery is not going to make the economy crash.

 

[G.T.]

Obama approaches 'fiscal cliff' days after victory - Yahoo! News

 

[miami_thomas]

I disagree. I don't see any signs that the Debt matters, and my evidence is that it hasn't been lowered in over 60 years.

Take a look at the percentage of our economy that already goes to nothing but paying off debt/Treasuries. Then calculate what is going to happen, what it's going to cost us, when we're still borrowing at a frantic pace but paying 7% for 10-year notes instead of 1.75%.

I hope I'm wrong, I hope you're right.

.

You forgot the rest of my post, but to your point, the money doesn't "go to nothing," much of it was borrowed to pay for things that will generate FUTURE profits, and savings. It was the long-term approach. Paying up now for things like preventative care - make *now* more expensive, for a less expensive future, for example.

Investing in the sciences of the future make *now* more expensive, for a much more successful future. Most of the time, when you study deeper into these things, there's a "bigger picture" that the headlines don't tell you.



I'll give you an example. I got really peeved one day, because some business out in California was killing some fish or bug or something (don't remember the specifics). So we paid federal dollars to protect said bug or fish (whatever it was). I was so mad about thaT SEEMINGLY WASTED MONEY, IN TIMES LIKE THESE. All the Conservative headlines said something about "2 million to save a dung beetle! (not the exact bug, mind you).

But when I read a study about what would happen to the ecosystem of the coast if said creature died off, the cost of protecting it was a DROP IN THE BUCKET to what it was going to cost the coast when its extinction happened.

That's why people need to be more pragmatic and more visionary, less REACTionary. People are so much faster to foam at the mouth and declare doom and gloom before they invest any time or energy into LEARNING.

At best we are making gambles that those investments are going to pay off. Problem is most of this money has not been invested well to recoup nearly the amount needed. Further, a majority of this money is not going to investments at all. Most of it is going to welfare, military, domestic spending, etc…. Back in the 30s and 40s when countries like Germany and the US invested in roads and schools it had a huge return because there were no roads or schools to start with so those investments got the max amount of return. Now we don’t get near those returns because most of the roads and schools needed already exist. Now we just basically increase union workers pay which is not an investment at all.

 

[Claudette]

.

Yep, fiscally we've passed the tipping point. It's going to manifest in a generally lower standard of living across the board. The question now is how far the decline will be. People don't see what a $16T debt does to our economy, and far worse, they don't understand the damage higher interest rates are going to cause.

If it means going from a 60" big screen and two nice cars to a 42" big screen and two medium-nice cars, that's one thing, hopefully that will be the extent. We'll see!

There's one thing on which we can be certain: The deck hands will be pointing the finger at each other as the boat sinks.

.

Yup and the boat is sinking.

 

[Truthmatters]

Now the Americans people will learn its not a cliff.


Then the republicans will have no choice but to help this country

 

[G.T.]

"In this case a lack of education is hurting small businesses, regardless of the legislation. The question is, who is at fault?"

Small businesses need to educate themselves on healthcare - The Small Business Blog

Just how far short are small business owners in terms of knowledge when it comes to the healthcare laws? According to a recently released survey done by the Wall Street Journal, 66% of small business owners had no idea if their company qualified for a for a small-business health-care tax credit first available in 2010, as part of the Affordable Care Act. According to the Government Accountability Office, only 170,000 small businesses took advantage of the credit, when in fact millions were supposed to have been eligible.

Diving deeper into the numbers, the survey was conducted amongst the high earning small businesses, limited to the heads of businesses with annual revenue between $1 million and $20 million. If the people who run businesses that generate millions of dollars don't have any clue as to what's in the healthcare bills, you can image how little insight the every day mom and pop stores will have. In their case, ignorance may be bliss in that they're too small to qualify anyway, but it strikes a larger point as to the long road from legislation to actually helping the owners that need it.

What's ironic is that the administration set up an entire website dedicated to explaining what's in the healthcare bill and what it means not only for small businesses but individuals as well. There's a Facebook page (with just over 12K fans) and a Twitter following with over 50,000 followers. Case study videos from real people talking about how they have taken advantage of the credit are up on the site. A link to the IRS website even outlines how to specifically take advantage of the credit come tax time, and how to claim it on your tax return. You can say a lot of things about the current administration, but holding back on information when it comes to the ACA is not one of them.

 

[SniperFire]

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

This is about the third time Komrade Konradv has pretended that Obama has not sworn to veto the legislation which would address the 'fiscal cliff.'

It's also the third time you've neglected to give us a cite. How do we know you aren't just putting words in his mouth? The devil's in the details and you seem to be sorely lacking in them.

I gave you a link on the other thread.

You are not aware, then, that Obama said he would veto 'fiscal cliff' legislation he didn't like?

 

[miami_thomas]

The ball is in Boehner's court. Fiscal measures are initiated by the House. If you're worried, be worried that he'd rather drive us off the cliff than do what's right for the country. It's time to buckle down and do some real governing.

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

I hold the Dems accountable for saving us from a depression and putting us on the road to recovery. Thanks to the stimulus, aka debt.

We are now in a real recovery and in position to rationally reduce the debt unless ....

Unless the whacked out reptards want retribution and drive us off the fiscal cliff.

I’m hoping this is sarcasm but in case it is not. The economy is not better. Pull your head out of your butt and look around if you think it is. Interest rates still historically low and amazingly enough going even lower. Gold is at historically high rates and amazingly enough still going up. The fed is pumping more money into the economy like a person pumping a person’s chest in CPR. Like I said I hope you are being sarcastic.

 

[konradv]

.

Yep, fiscally we've passed the tipping point. It's going to manifest in a generally lower standard of living across the board. The question now is how far the decline will be. If it means going from a 60" big screen and two nice cars to a 42" big screen and two medium-nice cars, that's one thing, hopefully that will be the extent. We'll see!

There's one thing on which we can be certain: The deck hands will be pointing the finger at each other as the boat sinks.

.

I disagree. I don't see any signs that the Debt matters, and my evidence is that it hasn't been lowered in over 60 years. Someone tell me what it looks like when the bond holders (which happen to be, mostly the Fed (China's ownership of our debt is grossly overstated, *we* own most of our own debt) come looking to be paid up...

Taxes are not historically high, yet all the right can seem to speak about is how taxes are crushing business. That is what it means to be living inside of a bubble. Corporate profits hit many all-time highs under Obama, the bad for business President, let's all sweep those facts under the rug.

He cut 18 different taxes for small businesses. Let's sweep that under the carpet, also.

Let's not talk about how the recession itself is the reason foodstamps and things have increased - let's blame "entitlement MINDED people," as if that's not GROSSLY overstated, also.

Social Security needs reform, that doesn't mean we're done-for, it just means we need ideas. 51% of the Country is on "some sort of" assistance? Someone needs to break down what's inside of that 51%, because many of those inside of said 51% have PAID FOR what they're on, in BLOOD, or in DEDUCTIONS all of their working lives. Calling it entitlements when you worked all of your life like you were supposed to is a farce.

At this point that no longer matters, what matters is that to fix the deficit we essentially have to pull 1.5 trillion dollars out of the economy just for the deficit. That of course does not include the interest on the debt. You see the debt is not the problem. The problem is the interest on that debt. Right now the interest is actually lower than it was in 2008. But that is just because the economies around the world are in no better shape than we are and they are still buying our treasuries so we don’t have to raise our interest rates. The fact that gold and silver are so expensive is the reason they are not skyrocketing. However at some point there will start to be fear that we will not be able to pay back our debts ever. When this happens and people start taking their investments elsewhere our interest rates will have to go up. When this happens you will feel it. If we did not have to pay interest, we would have no problem at all. But we do have to pay interest and that is where the danger is.

Also on a side note regarding the gold currently the Fed has been loaning out its gold to bullion banks to try and bring down the price of gold. But this has not been working. Eventually, I don’t know how soon, the bullion banks will have to start buying the gold back and if prices are still this high that is when everything will collapse for real because that would destroy the value of the dollar.

We have to prove we're doing something on the spending AND the revenue side. Perceptions are important in a market economy. If we look like we're being serious, people will take heart and natural market forces will take hold to lift us out of this mess. As long as the Republicans insist on doing this in a one-sided manner, that's unlikely to happen. The American people don't trust them and said so on the 6th. Why else would they re-elect a president with only a so-so economic record? They must think the Republican way is worse.

 

[Truthmatters]

every preisident has a veto pen.

Clinton used his quite well to get decent things out the the republicans he worked with

 

[Truthmatters]

We know, liberals can't be held accountable for any thing. it's why we love you.

I hold the Dems accountable for saving us from a depression and putting us on the road to recovery. Thanks to the stimulus, aka debt.

We are now in a real recovery and in position to rationally reduce the debt unless ....

Unless the whacked out reptards want retribution and drive us off the fiscal cliff.

I’m hoping this is sarcasm but in case it is not. The economy is not better. Pull your head out of your butt and look around if you think it is. Interest rates still historically low and amazingly enough going even lower. Gold is at historically high rates and amazingly enough still going up. The fed is pumping more money into the economy like a person pumping a person’s chest in CPR. Like I said I hope you are being sarcastic.

Those lies are why your party lost the election.

 

[konradv]

This is about the third time Komrade Konradv has pretended that Obama has not sworn to veto the legislation which would address the 'fiscal cliff.'

It's also the third time you've neglected to give us a cite. How do we know you aren't just putting words in his mouth? The devil's in the details and you seem to be sorely lacking in them.

I gave you a link on the other thread.

You are not aware, then, that Obama said he would veto 'fiscal cliff' legislation he didn't like?

The "other" thread? Which one would that be? There are thousands and I work for a living and don't have time to do your leg work for you.

 

[SniperFire]

It's also the third time you've neglected to give us a cite. How do we know you aren't just putting words in his mouth? The devil's in the details and you seem to be sorely lacking in them.

I gave you a link on the other thread.

You are not aware, then, that Obama said he would veto 'fiscal cliff' legislation he didn't like?

The "other" thread? Which one would that be? There are thousands and I work for a living and don't have time to do your leg work for you.

I will give you the link again if you are incapable of using a search engine.

Before I do that, will you promise to stay here for the 15 seconds it takes me to do it so that I can gloat over making you look like an ignorant fool again?

 

[G.T.]

Small Businesses and the Affordable Care Act ? Fact Sheets | HealthCare.gov

 

[miami_thomas]

I hold the Dems accountable for saving us from a depression and putting us on the road to recovery. Thanks to the stimulus, aka debt.

We are now in a real recovery and in position to rationally reduce the debt unless ....

Unless the whacked out reptards want retribution and drive us off the fiscal cliff.

I’m hoping this is sarcasm but in case it is not. The economy is not better. Pull your head out of your butt and look around if you think it is. Interest rates still historically low and amazingly enough going even lower. Gold is at historically high rates and amazingly enough still going up. The fed is pumping more money into the economy like a person pumping a person’s chest in CPR. Like I said I hope you are being sarcastic.

Those lies are why your party lost the election.

Lies and an uneducated electorate is why your party won.

Interest rates
US Department of the Treasury
Gold
http://www.chartsrus.com/chart.php?image=http://www.sharelynx.com/chartstemp/free/chartind1CRU.php?ticker=^GOX
Fed
Federal Reserve launches QE3 - Sep. 13, 2012

 

[Truthmatters]

why did you believe Fox when they kept telling you robmoney was going to win by 5%?

because you cant tell a lie from the truth