We are experiencing the biggest scandal in America's political history right now.

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

You didn't answer my question, John! Was Donald Trump President of the United States when those boxes were shipped from the Oval Office to Florida?

Doesn't matter: that's your answer. His immunity dissolved the day after his presidency ended. When the subpoena was served, he obstructed justice.

 

[Oldestyle]

The FBI went to Mar a Lago to take custody of the classified documents that they had subpoenaed Trump for. Trump’s lawyer said they searched everywhere and every document was in the envelope they handed over.

The FBI asked to see the storage room. Trump’s lawyers agreed but forbade the FBI from looking in any of the boxes.

Tell me, what were they supposed to do then? They had no legal authority to overrule Trump. Searching the boxes would have been illegal and prevented any of that evidence from being used in court.

I’ll tell you what you do. You go back, build a case for a search warrant and take the documents back by force. That’s the only legal option they had.

What do you think they should have done?

"They had no legal authority to overrule Trump."
That's it in a nutshell, Marener. They had no legal authority to declare ANY documents that Trump possessed "classified"! The local FBI agents in Miami seemed to grasp that. The FBI agents that were flown down from DC to conduct the Swat team raid didn't care! They were there to put on a show. With Trump you got a Swat team. With Biden the FBI let Joe's lawyers conduct the search for classified documents even though Joe Biden NEVER had the legal right to possess those documents! The double standard is breathtaking!

 

[Oldestyle]

Doesn't matter: that's your answer. His immunity dissolved the day after his presidency ended. When the subpoena was served, he obstructed justice.

Doesn't matter? Let's review...shall we? At the time those papers were being boxed up to be sent to Florida Donald Trump is the sitting President of the United States and is the ultimate authority on classification. He has the well established RIGHT to have those papers!

The Biden DOJ has no business raiding the home of a former President in a dispute over document classification. Especially when Joe Biden had classified documents he had ZERO business having scattered all over Washington DC, Delaware and UPenn!

 

[Marener]

"They had no legal authority to overrule Trump."
That's it in a nutshell, Marener. They had no legal authority to declare ANY documents that Trump possessed "classified"! The local FBI agents in Miami seemed to grasp that. The FBI agents that were flown down from DC to conduct the Swat team raid didn't care! They were there to put on a show. With Trump you got a Swat team. With Biden the FBI let Joe's lawyers conduct the search for classified documents even though Joe Biden NEVER had the legal right to possess those documents! The double standard is breathtaking!

The FBI didn’t declare them classified. The government already did that when the documents were created. That’s why they had classified markings all over them.

So you’re going to need a different excuse because this one makes no sense.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

"They had no legal authority to overrule Trump."
That's it in a nutshell, Marener. They had no legal authority to declare ANY documents that Trump possessed "classified"! The local FBI agents in Miami seemed to grasp that. The FBI agents that were flown down from DC to conduct the Swat team raid didn't care! They were there to put on a show. With Trump you got a Swat team. With Biden the FBI let Joe's lawyers conduct the search for classified documents even though Joe Biden NEVER had the legal right to possess those documents! The double standard is breathtaking!

False. Trump obstructed justice, whether the classification of documents. He will be easily convicted.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Doesn't matter? Let's review...shall we? At the time those papers were being boxed up to be sent to Florida Donald Trump is the sitting President of the United States and is the ultimate authority on classification. He has the well established RIGHT to have those papers!

The Biden DOJ has no business raiding the home of a former President in a dispute over document classification. Especially when Joe Biden had classified documents he had ZERO business having scattered all over Washington DC, Delaware and UPenn!

It was a dispute over the criminal refusal by Trump who obstructed justice by refusing to honor a subpoena.

 

[Oldestyle]

The FBI didn’t declare them classified. The government already did that when the documents were created. That’s why they had classified markings all over them.

So you’re going to need a different excuse because this one makes no sense.

For about the twentieth time...it doesn't matter what markings documents have on them if the person who had them in his possession has the authority to classify documents! What you need is a court ruling that takes away that Presidential privilege away from a President and that hasn't happened. Until it does? You're building the foundation of your legal case on quicksand.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

For about the twentieth time...it doesn't matter what markings documents have on them if the person who had them in his possession has the authority to classify documents! What you need is a court ruling that takes away that Presidential privilege away from a President and that hasn't happened. Until it does? You're building the foundation of your legal case on quicksand.

The trial is for obstruction of justice, not having 'classified' documents or not.

 

[Oldestyle]

It was a dispute over the criminal refusal by Trump who obstructed justice by refusing to honor a subpoena.

That's a legal dispute between the National Archive and Trump. It needed to be solved with a court ruling...not an FBI Swat team raid!

 

[Oldestyle]

The trial is for obstruction of justice, not having 'classified' documents or not.

How is refusing to turn over documents that you have the legal right to possess in any way an "obstruction of justice"?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

That's a legal dispute between the National Archive and Trump. It needed to be solved with a court ruling...not an FBI Swat team raid!

Of course it did, when Trump would not peacefully surrender them.

A FBI swat raid was exactly what was need. The Orange Jackass is not above the law.

 

[Oldestyle]

The trial is for obstruction of justice, not having 'classified' documents or not.

Now if you really wanted to talk about "obstruction of justice" perhaps we should be asking why Leslie Wolf refused to allow investigators from the IRS to ask questions about "The Big Guy"? Can't wait to hear her testimony on that!

 

[Oldestyle]

Of course it did, when Trump would not peacefully surrender them.

A FBI swat raid was exactly what was need. The Orange Jackass is not above the law.

You need a heavily armed Swat team to collect documents from someone who had already turned over documents twice before, without anyone so much as flashing a gun at them? You're amusing, John!

 

[Marener]

For about the twentieth time...it doesn't matter what markings documents have on them if the person who had them in his possession has the authority to classify documents! What you need is a court ruling that takes away that Presidential privilege away from a President and that hasn't happened. Until it does? You're building the foundation of your legal case on quicksand.

Of course the markings matter. It indicates the information is highly classified.

Just because Trump had the authority to declassify them doesn’t mean he did so.

The DoJ, having had no reason to believe the documents were declassified, did the only rational thing by treating them as being classified.

 

[Marener]

How is refusing to turn over documents that you have the legal right to possess in any way an "obstruction of justice"?

When you received a grand jury subpoena for them.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Now if you really wanted to talk about "obstruction of justice" perhaps we should be asking why Leslie Wolf refused to allow investigators from the IRS to ask questions about "The Big Guy"? Can't wait to hear her testimony on that!

You can ask that if you wish. The obstruction charges are insurmountable, will be found to be true, and will withstand easily any appeal.

He will be a convicted felon and fined heavily. I don't think he will be remanded to custody. SCOTUS has signaled that a President cannot pardon himself; it is only for others,

 

[Oldestyle]

Of course the markings matter. It indicates the information is highly classified.

Just because Trump had the authority to declassify them doesn’t mean he did so.

The DoJ, having had no reason to believe the documents were declassified, did the only rational thing by treating them as being classified.

Gee, I don't know...perhaps they should have ASKED? INSTEAD OF SENDING AN FBI SWAT TEAM FROM WASHINGTON DC!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a "rational" thing? You've got to be kidding me!

All markings mean is that what was in a folder was classified to that level at some point. The markings don't magically change if a President decides to take it with him. Admit it, Marener...you have no way of knowing if Trump declassified those documents. You're just assuming that he didn't because it's the only way you can even BEGIN to justify a SWAT team raid on the home of a former President!

 

[Oldestyle]

When you received a grand jury subpoena for them.

The grand jury subpoena doesn't mean squat, Marener! It doesn't change Trump's authority to possess those documents. A grand jury hears one side of a legal argument and doesn't hear anything from the other side. Do you honestly think that the DOJ told that grand jury that President's are the ultimate authority on classification?

 

[Oldestyle]

You can ask that if you wish. The obstruction charges are insurmountable, will be found to be true, and will withstand easily any appeal.

He will be a convicted felon and fined heavily. I don't think he will be remanded to custody. SCOTUS has signaled that a President cannot pardon himself; it is only for others,

I have no idea why you think Trump is going to be found guilty of obstruction of justice simply for standing up for the authority that was granted to him as a President. My prediction is that at the end of the day...when all of the 91 indictments have had their day in court...been appealed to a higher court...Donald Trump won't be convicted of anything.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

mThe grand jury subpoena doesn't mean squat, Marener! It doesn't change Trump's authority to possess those documents. A grand jury hears one side of a legal argument and doesn't hear anything from the other side. Do you honestly think that the DOJ told that grand jury that President's are the ultimate authority on classification?

It sure does. He did not have the authority to take them, then lie that he had them, and obstruct their return.

He is a liar and a bully. Oldestyle is doing the same, lying about a former President's authority that does not exist.