WATCH: Ferguson Protesters Chant ‘We’re Ready for War’

[JQPublic1]

I don't know where you got those statistics since there is no requirement for police agencies to report killings by police officers to the FBI fatal or not! Some do it voluntarily but most do not.

Do you ever bother to read what you've typed? LMAO
Are there non-fatal killings?

Yeah, like the killings the Ferguson cops were making off of Blacks for traffic stops and fines. Big bucks!

Now can you read the revision and answer intelligently?

Revenue enhancement, done by every police force in the country.

Those who read the DOJ report on the Ferguson PD can see the proportional disparity that went on for years where Blacks were stopped more, fined more and abused more. In that case proportional statistics worked against the white phalanx of terror.

 

[OKTexas]

I don't know where you got those statistics since there is no requirement for police agencies to report killings by police officers to the FBI fatal or not! Some do it voluntarily but most do not.

Do you ever bother to read what you've typed? LMAO
Are there non-fatal killings?

Yeah, like the killings the Ferguson cops were making off of Blacks for traffic stops and fines. Big bucks!

Now can you read the revision and answer intelligently?

Revenue enhancement, done by every police force in the country.

Those who read the DOJ report on the Ferguson PD can see the proportional disparity that went on for years where Blacks were stopped more, fined more and abused more. In that case proportional statistics worked against the white phalanx of terror.

Oh you're talking about the DOJ report directed by the racist black man Holder, LMAO. Why should I trust his bullshit any more than you trust Pew Research. The real question is whether blacks were stopped more often because they are black, or because they were caught more often breaking the law? The DOJ made assumptions based on raw numbers without any substantial evidence to support it. I haven't been stopped for speeding since 1977, ya know why, I don't speed.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Not as a percentage of the population, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

**** the percentage of the population crap. Do you even know how many Blacks use food stamps? If you tell me, I'll tell you how many Whites are on food stamps.lets compare numbers...shall we?

Sure you want to play with the numbers when blacks are 13% of the population, the fact is that blacks are twice as likely to be on food stamps than whites. Whites 15% compared to 31% of blacks have ever received food stamps according to Pew Research.

The politics and demographics of food stamp recipients Pew Research Center

I asked you to provide the number of Blacks on food stamps now!..today!...Not the percentage having EVER received food-stamps.
I want raw numbers of current Black recipients of food stamps.

THIS GRAPH FROM YOUR LINK IS FROM THE PEW SURVEY AND DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION!

Hey dummy, you can't use raw numbers as a fair comparison unless the populations are equal. Of course that's why you want to use them, your not looking for a fair comparison. You don't like what I provided, go find a source and post it. I'm not going to play your game.

Proportional statistics isn't a fair comparison either when you understand that the general white population had a 300 year head start on Black Americans and then tried every thing possible to keep them from learning to read, or write or to compete for meaningful good paying jobs

Besides, as I have said repeatedly!! I don't trust white generated statistics that can't be verified by blacks. I play the game to a point but since most white people seem to hold blacks in contempt, how can their racial survey data be trusted to be accurate and not embellished negatively in some way?

Here is a 2013 graph that is more relevant than yours:

White statisticians defy White anthropologists and decided to separate hispanics from the "white" category. I agree with that but they are still considered Caucasian despite most being Indians who migrated from Asia who speak Spanish or English. Amerindias also are considered Caucasian ...you people just cant get the race thing right can you?
Add all Caucasians together and their true rate soars.

We're fifty years beyond the sixties. Get over it already.

 

[JQPublic1]

**** the percentage of the population crap. Do you even know how many Blacks use food stamps? If you tell me, I'll tell you how many Whites are on food stamps.lets compare numbers...shall we?

Sure you want to play with the numbers when blacks are 13% of the population, the fact is that blacks are twice as likely to be on food stamps than whites. Whites 15% compared to 31% of blacks have ever received food stamps according to Pew Research.

The politics and demographics of food stamp recipients Pew Research Center

I asked you to provide the number of Blacks on food stamps now!..today!...Not the percentage having EVER received food-stamps.
I want raw numbers of current Black recipients of food stamps.

THIS GRAPH FROM YOUR LINK IS FROM THE PEW SURVEY AND DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION!

Hey dummy, you can't use raw numbers as a fair comparison unless the populations are equal. Of course that's why you want to use them, your not looking for a fair comparison. You don't like what I provided, go find a source and post it. I'm not going to play your game.

Proportional statistics isn't a fair comparison either when you understand that the general white population had a 300 year head start on Black Americans and then tried every thing possible to keep them from learning to read, or write or to compete for meaningful good paying jobs

Besides, as I have said repeatedly!! I don't trust white generated statistics that can't be verified by blacks. I play the game to a point but since most white people seem to hold blacks in contempt, how can their racial survey data be trusted to be accurate and not embellished negatively in some way?

Here is a 2013 graph that is more relevant than yours:

White statisticians defy White anthropologists and decided to separate hispanics from the "white" category. I agree with that but they are still considered Caucasian despite most being Indians who migrated from Asia who speak Spanish or English. Amerindias also are considered Caucasian ...you people just cant get the race thing right can you?
Add all Caucasians together and their true rate soars.

We're fifty years beyond the sixties. Get over it already.

How can blacks get over "it" when "it" never went away?

Case in point:


Rick Perlstein writes:





In Ferguson, police racism is built in, institutionalized in the town’s business model of using revenue from fines to pay its bills (and in the process, turning some residents into unemployable criminals). The encounter with Ferguson’s fierce justice system, if you are black, works like this: You have an overwhelming chance of being cited or arrested by police, for doing little or nothing that is wrong. A report from the legal group ArchCity Defenders found that in 2013, “the Ferguson Municipal Court disposed 24,532 warrants and 12,018 cases, or about three warrants and 1.5 cases per household,” an incredibly high rate. Then you are likely to face a fine you cannot afford to pay—ArchCity Defenders calculates that the average fine is $275—or a summons to a court that is rigged against you showing up on time. “The bench routinely starts hearing cases 30 minutes before the appointed time and then locks the doors to the building as early as five minutes after the official hour, a practice that could easily lead a defendant arriving even slightly late to receive an additional charge for failure to appear,” reads the report. Thus, you might end up in jail—with a criminal

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Sure you want to play with the numbers when blacks are 13% of the population, the fact is that blacks are twice as likely to be on food stamps than whites. Whites 15% compared to 31% of blacks have ever received food stamps according to Pew Research.

The politics and demographics of food stamp recipients Pew Research Center

I asked you to provide the number of Blacks on food stamps now!..today!...Not the percentage having EVER received food-stamps.
I want raw numbers of current Black recipients of food stamps.

THIS GRAPH FROM YOUR LINK IS FROM THE PEW SURVEY AND DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION!

Hey dummy, you can't use raw numbers as a fair comparison unless the populations are equal. Of course that's why you want to use them, your not looking for a fair comparison. You don't like what I provided, go find a source and post it. I'm not going to play your game.

Proportional statistics isn't a fair comparison either when you understand that the general white population had a 300 year head start on Black Americans and then tried every thing possible to keep them from learning to read, or write or to compete for meaningful good paying jobs

Besides, as I have said repeatedly!! I don't trust white generated statistics that can't be verified by blacks. I play the game to a point but since most white people seem to hold blacks in contempt, how can their racial survey data be trusted to be accurate and not embellished negatively in some way?

Here is a 2013 graph that is more relevant than yours:

White statisticians defy White anthropologists and decided to separate hispanics from the "white" category. I agree with that but they are still considered Caucasian despite most being Indians who migrated from Asia who speak Spanish or English. Amerindias also are considered Caucasian ...you people just cant get the race thing right can you?
Add all Caucasians together and their true rate soars.

We're fifty years beyond the sixties. Get over it already.

How can blacks get over "it" when "it" never went away?

Case in point:


Rick Perlstein writes:





In Ferguson, police racism is built in, institutionalized in the town’s business model of using revenue from fines to pay its bills (and in the process, turning some residents into unemployable criminals). The encounter with Ferguson’s fierce justice system, if you are black, works like this: You have an overwhelming chance of being cited or arrested by police, for doing little or nothing that is wrong. A report from the legal group ArchCity Defenders found that in 2013, “the Ferguson Municipal Court disposed 24,532 warrants and 12,018 cases, or about three warrants and 1.5 cases per household,” an incredibly high rate. Then you are likely to face a fine you cannot afford to pay—ArchCity Defenders calculates that the average fine is $275—or a summons to a court that is rigged against you showing up on time. “The bench routinely starts hearing cases 30 minutes before the appointed time and then locks the doors to the building as early as five minutes after the official hour, a practice that could easily lead a defendant arriving even slightly late to receive an additional charge for failure to appear,” reads the report. Thus, you might end up in jail—with a criminal

'It' went away and was replaced by depleted family structure.

 

[Meathead]

According to statistics generated by your people: racist, inbred bigots!

By any measure blacks come out at the bottom of all socioeconomic indicators. If you prefer to blame racism until time immemorial, do so. Without coming to grips with the real and universal problems blacks face, blacks will be living dependent and shitty lives in the same shit holes which they themselves destroy.

 

[JQPublic1]

I don't know where you got those statistics since there is no requirement for police agencies to report killings by police officers to the FBI fatal or not! Some do it voluntarily but most do not.

Do you ever bother to read what you've typed? LMAO
Are there non-fatal killings?

Yeah, like the killings the Ferguson cops were making off of Blacks for traffic stops and fines. Big bucks!

Now can you read the revision and answer intelligently?

Revenue enhancement, done by every police force in the country.

Those who read the DOJ report on the Ferguson PD can see the proportional disparity that went on for years where Blacks were stopped more, fined more and abused more. In that case proportional statistics worked against the white phalanx of terror.

Oh you're talking about the DOJ report directed by the racist black man Holder, LMAO. Why should I trust his bullshit any more than you trust Pew Research. The real question is whether blacks were stopped more often because they are black, or because they were caught more often breaking the law? The DOJ made assumptions based on raw numbers without any substantial evidence to support it. I haven't been stopped for speeding since 1977, ya know why, I don't speed.

Holder didn't personally conduct the investigation and he isn't a racist just because you think he is.I haven''t heard him say anything that would label him as a racist.

The Pew data as presented in this thread came from a survey of random samples. That doesn't mean a hill of beans to anyone wanting real facts. The DOJ report was a hands on investigation using real raw data of actual cases to show how biased and corrupt the Ferguson PD was. See post #164 for additonal reports from non DOJ sources!

 

[JQPublic1]

**** the percentage of the population crap. Do you even know how many Blacks use food stamps? If you tell me, I'll tell you how many Whites are on food stamps.lets compare numbers...shall we?

Sure you want to play with the numbers when blacks are 13% of the population, the fact is that blacks are twice as likely to be on food stamps than whites. Whites 15% compared to 31% of blacks have ever received food stamps according to Pew Research.

The politics and demographics of food stamp recipients Pew Research Center

I asked you to provide the number of Blacks on food stamps now!..today!...Not the percentage having EVER received food-stamps.
I want raw numbers of current Black recipients of food stamps.

THIS GRAPH FROM YOUR LINK IS FROM THE PEW SURVEY AND DOES NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION!

Hey dummy, you can't use raw numbers as a fair comparison unless the populations are equal. Of course that's why you want to use them, your not looking for a fair comparison. You don't like what I provided, go find a source and post it. I'm not going to play your game.

Proportional statistics isn't a fair comparison either when you understand that the general white population had a 300 year head start on Black Americans and then tried every thing possible to keep them from learning to read, or write or to compete for meaningful good paying jobs

Besides, as I have said repeatedly!! I don't trust white generated statistics that can't be verified by blacks. I play the game to a point but since most white people seem to hold blacks in contempt, how can their racial survey data be trusted to be accurate and not embellished negatively in some way?

Here is a 2013 graph that is more relevant than yours:

White statisticians defy White anthropologists and decided to separate hispanics from the "white" category. I agree with that but they are still considered Caucasian despite most being Indians who migrated from Asia who speak Spanish or English. Amerindias also are considered Caucasian ...you people just cant get the race thing right can you?
Add all Caucasians together and their true rate soars.

Right, you're such a victim, how ever did you get a computer and learn how to type?

I am not talking about me. You don't know my race... I am talking about Black people. I might be black but then again I might not be. SO you can cut the"victim" crap and shove it up yer arse. ROFLMAO

 

[JQPublic1]

According to statistics generated by your people: racist, inbred bigots!

By any measure blacks come out at the bottom of all socioeconomic indicators. If you prefer to blame racism until time immemorial, do so. Without coming to grips with the real and universal problems blacks face, blacks will be living dependent and shitty lives in the same shit holes which they themselves destroy.

I don't care what white generated "social indicators" say except to give me advanced notice that the sheep who religiously follow such things might react violently to me or my loved ones. The blacks I know and associate with come out on or near the top of all socioeconomic indicators. You are preaching to the wrong guy.

The real and universal problems Blacks face mostly come from people like you but the clincher is that the poor majority is white and they suffer more because every time your "conservative" politicians use the black boogey man to cut social safety nets, huge numbers of whie people are affected...they outnumber the entire black population!

 

[Meathead]

The blacks I know and associate with come out on or near the top of all socioeconomic indicators. You are preaching to the wrong guy.

An elitist and asshole to boot. You and those you 'know' can be anything you want on the internet.

Blacks are squarely at the bottom of just about anything except at violent crime, welfare and have had success only in entertainment and sports. Well, failure at anything which demands intelligence.

 

[JQPublic1]

The blacks I know and associate with come out on or near the top of all socioeconomic indicators. You are preaching to the wrong guy.

An elitist and asshole to boot. You and those you 'know' can be anything you want on the internet.

Blacks are squarely at the bottom of just about anything except at violent crime, welfare and have had success only in entertainment and sports. Well, failure at anything which demands intelligence.

You...the perennial racist bahs-turd calling someone an asshole
Look, fool, your obsession with blacks borders on insanity. You're just stupidly caught up in condemning black people.and there is no end in sight.
I don't care what you think... I don't care about just black poverty or crime. ALL crime in the USA concerns me. You need to see a shrink asap...you need help. stupid bastard!

 

[Meathead]

The blacks I know and associate with come out on or near the top of all socioeconomic indicators. You are preaching to the wrong guy.

An elitist and asshole to boot. You and those you 'know' can be anything you want on the internet.

Blacks are squarely at the bottom of just about anything except at violent crime, welfare and have had success only in entertainment and sports. Well, failure at anything which demands intelligence.

You...the perennial racist bahs-turd calling someone an asshole
Look, fool, your obsession with blacks borders on insanity. You're just stupidly caught up in condemning black people.and there is no end in sight.
I don't care what you think... I don't care about just black poverty or crime. ALL crime in the USA concerns me. You need to see a shrink asap...you need help. stupid bastard!

You know, that jumping up and down shit never works, but then it's in your blood I suppose.

 

[sealybobo]

You stfu, I know that more whites are on food stamps than blacks!

Not as a percentage of the population, but let's not let facts get in the way of a good story.

Didn't all the GOP governors like Snyder in Michigan cut welfare off after 5 years? I thought we solved this already. Now corporate welfares another story.

I think AZ is cutting it off after a year, it was never intended to be a way of life.

Somehow people find jobs when the free checks stop coming.

Seems to be the same since the extended unemployment dried up. More people found jobs, and of course the dems are claiming credit.

As they should.

We get credit for the 95% who needed the extensions and were just victims of bushanomics.

 

[sealybobo]

The Obama legacy. Whom do you think they are going to war with? The democrat party that has subjugated them for 300 years? I wouldn't blame them, they have been lied to so much by the democrat party the rage was bound to boil to the surface.

WATCH Ferguson Protesters Chant We re Ready for War Mediaite

During Sunday night’s protest on the anniversary of the shooting death of African-American man Michael Brown, Ferguson protesters chanted that they were “ready for war.”

It's wonder they don't all become Republicans.

That would require them to get jobs.
we KNOW thats not going to happen.

Not in Ferguson. Blacks would have to leave town to find a job!

That's actually part of my solution for blacks. They can't handle Detroit or Ferguson or flint Saginaw Compton watts or Harlem.

Seems the only decent black city is Atlanta.

So blacks need to leave 75% of Detroit. Half of Detroit has already taken this advice. They've left to come to the burbs where there are jobs. Each city has enough low income housing to let blacks make up no more than 20% of our communities.

No offense but clearly blacks can not manage their own major city.

I'd like to know how Atlanta does it. Anyone here from the atl?

No offense but thanks for verifying what I suspected all along about SOME "White liberals." You are no different when it comes to race than your "conservative" counterparts.

Instead of examining the factors behind the decline of Detroit, you conclude it is due to Blacks mismanaging it. The situation in Detroit is far more complex than that and has a lot to do with the near collapse of the auto Industry in 2008-9. But if that wasn't enough of an insult you proceeded to assert that low income housing in the suburbs would be reserved solely for poor Blacks.

You didn't stop there. As expected, given the trajectory of your veiled
bigotry, you continued by rattling off multiple examples of supposedly failed black cities to bolster your claim. Shootspeeders and Matthew must be proud of you! I am not sure your premise of "Blacks can't handle" big city management is anything more than an early 20th Century throwback to the days when it was popularly believed that Blacks couldn't "handle" pro football or baseball or fly an airplane!

Here is abetter idea. Since we know every major city needs a decent tax base to be successful, regardless of who is managing the city government, the point is moot. As long as White people own the means of production, all of the banks and most of the national franchises/ businesses, they still control the local economies at any level and political outcomes at the state and federal levels.

You might be aware that during segregation, Black businesses flourished; wealth accumulated in Black communities and productivity was high. Marriage was valued and families stayed together. Then came integration. Blacks flocked to white owned businesses and businesses in their own communities perished. along with the productivity and wealth. Blacks became dependent on White society for jobs and sustenance thinking that assimilation would eventually come.
They are still waiting!

Let me answer a couple point before I continue. I'm not racist or just as bad as conservatives when I speak the truth. Just like trump and calling illegals rapists, he's trying to make a point and get your attention.

2. White liberals don't 100% agree with black people. I talk with liberal white friends and while we all agree its not all blacks fault, they have some blame. Black people need to do better. Better with the kids, jobs, grammar. I'm sorry but should we ignore the few things blacks can do on their side? Like less baby mamas? Black behavior is losing the support of even us liberals.

I already said I can't argue with you on how it is white people fault blacks can't speak English for an interview. So what are BLACKS going to do about it?

I know we made black women have sex with losers who won't be fathers to the bastards they have. So what are BLACKS going to do about it? Time to stop with the excuses.

And I'm sorry for making fun of black cities when even usmb blacks admit I wouldn't want to be caught in them after dark. They almost seem proud.

 

[sealybobo]

The Obama legacy. Whom do you think they are going to war with? The democrat party that has subjugated them for 300 years? I wouldn't blame them, they have been lied to so much by the democrat party the rage was bound to boil to the surface.

WATCH Ferguson Protesters Chant We re Ready for War Mediaite

During Sunday night’s protest on the anniversary of the shooting death of African-American man Michael Brown, Ferguson protesters chanted that they were “ready for war.”

It's wonder they don't all become Republicans.

That would require them to get jobs.
we KNOW thats not going to happen.

Not in Ferguson. Blacks would have to leave town to find a job!

That's actually part of my solution for blacks. They can't handle Detroit or Ferguson or flint Saginaw Compton watts or Harlem.

Seems the only decent black city is Atlanta.

So blacks need to leave 75% of Detroit. Half of Detroit has already taken this advice. They've left to come to the burbs where there are jobs. Each city has enough low income housing to let blacks make up no more than 20% of our communities.

No offense but clearly blacks can not manage their own major city.

I'd like to know how Atlanta does it. Anyone here from the atl?

No offense but thanks for verifying what I suspected all along about SOME "White liberals." You are no different when it comes to race than your "conservative" counterparts.

Instead of examining the factors behind the decline of Detroit, you conclude it is due to Blacks mismanaging it. The situation in Detroit is far more complex than that and has a lot to do with the near collapse of the auto Industry in 2008-9. But if that wasn't enough of an insult you proceeded to assert that low income housing in the suburbs would be reserved solely for poor Blacks.

You didn't stop there. As expected, given the trajectory of your veiled
bigotry, you continued by rattling off multiple examples of supposedly failed black cities to bolster your claim. Shootspeeders and Matthew must be proud of you! I am not sure your premise of "Blacks can't handle" big city management is anything more than an early 20th Century throwback to the days when it was popularly believed that Blacks couldn't "handle" pro football or baseball or fly an airplane!

Here is abetter idea. Since we know every major city needs a decent tax base to be successful, regardless of who is managing the city government, the point is moot. As long as White people own the means of production, all of the banks and most of the national franchises/ businesses, they still control the local economies at any level and political outcomes at the state and federal levels.

You might be aware that during segregation, Black businesses flourished; wealth accumulated in Black communities and productivity was high. Marriage was valued and families stayed together. Then came integration. Blacks flocked to white owned businesses and businesses in their own communities perished. along with the productivity and wealth. Blacks became dependent on White society for jobs and sustenance thinking that assimilation would eventually come.
They are still waiting!

Then start owning the means of production!

Look. I feel you. To the rich we are all nig$#rs. So while they own the means of production, I do a few things. I educate myself, save money, am well spoken at interviews, i am not committing crimes, don't have more kids than I can afford. All things I can control myself.

You're stuck on excuse and denial.

 

[sealybobo]

The Obama legacy. Whom do you think they are going to war with? The democrat party that has subjugated them for 300 years? I wouldn't blame them, they have been lied to so much by the democrat party the rage was bound to boil to the surface.

WATCH Ferguson Protesters Chant We re Ready for War Mediaite

During Sunday night’s protest on the anniversary of the shooting death of African-American man Michael Brown, Ferguson protesters chanted that they were “ready for war.”

It's wonder they don't all become Republicans.

That would require them to get jobs.
we KNOW thats not going to happen.

Not in Ferguson. Blacks would have to leave town to find a job!

That's actually part of my solution for blacks. They can't handle Detroit or Ferguson or flint Saginaw Compton watts or Harlem.

Seems the only decent black city is Atlanta.

So blacks need to leave 75% of Detroit. Half of Detroit has already taken this advice. They've left to come to the burbs where there are jobs. Each city has enough low income housing to let blacks make up no more than 20% of our communities.

No offense but clearly blacks can not manage their own major city.

I'd like to know how Atlanta does it. Anyone here from the atl?

No offense but thanks for verifying what I suspected all along about SOME "White liberals." You are no different when it comes to race than your "conservative" counterparts.

Instead of examining the factors behind the decline of Detroit, you conclude it is due to Blacks mismanaging it. The situation in Detroit is far more complex than that and has a lot to do with the near collapse of the auto Industry in 2008-9. But if that wasn't enough of an insult you proceeded to assert that low income housing in the suburbs would be reserved solely for poor Blacks.

You didn't stop there. As expected, given the trajectory of your veiled
bigotry, you continued by rattling off multiple examples of supposedly failed black cities to bolster your claim. Shootspeeders and Matthew must be proud of you! I am not sure your premise of "Blacks can't handle" big city management is anything more than an early 20th Century throwback to the days when it was popularly believed that Blacks couldn't "handle" pro football or baseball or fly an airplane!

Here is abetter idea. Since we know every major city needs a decent tax base to be successful, regardless of who is managing the city government, the point is moot. As long as White people own the means of production, all of the banks and most of the national franchises/ businesses, they still control the local economies at any level and political outcomes at the state and federal levels.

You might be aware that during segregation, Black businesses flourished; wealth accumulated in Black communities and productivity was high. Marriage was valued and families stayed together. Then came integration. Blacks flocked to white owned businesses and businesses in their own communities perished. along with the productivity and wealth. Blacks became dependent on White society for jobs and sustenance thinking that assimilation would eventually come.
They are still waiting!

Stop waiting. How many millionaire black retired athletes have left black community and never looked back? Where's Karl Malone live in Utah? Berry Sanders. What's Oprah doing about it?

You're in America for God sakes. Would you be better off somewhere else? You're sounding like a conspiracy theorist. Jk. I really do agree with everything you say but what blacks won't do is talk about how they can do better. Sorry if the truth hurts. Yes, even white liberals have issues with black societies. How can you not looking at the crime and culture? Pull your ******* pants up!

 

[Stephanie]

After Seven miserable years of their Messiah Obama. I guess he didn't shower them with enough of his magical: hope and change. or they wouldn't be out acting like thugs

Remember folks, Obama was going to be the GREAT UNITER

oh dear: he lied to you about that to so you vote for him. DUPED again. tsk tsk

 

[Wildman]

So am I.

FULL AUTO HERE

 

[Wildman]

1.Obama is not Thug

PROVE IT !!

 

[Wildman]

Especially considering what lousy shots they are.

in that case 2 minutes of sustained fire from a "Ma Duce"...,

yaaaa, that's the one !!