Was Ukraine a threat to Russia before start of Russian military operation?

[Oldestyle]

That’s an interesting and credibly theory. This is the first time I’m hearing it. It adds to the narrative that Putin acted to save Russians in Donbass

Don't be the Class Dolt, Frank! Credible theory? Putin acted to "save" Russians in Donbass by attacking the rest of Ukraine and slaughtering thousands? That is exactly the rationale that Hitler used to seize territory before WWII.

 

[Dissident]

... Putin's decades long history of killing ... his political opposition?

If there is a “Putin's long history of killing his political opposition”, there must be a long list of names of victims who have been killed in Russia and whose deaths are unresolved.

And if they have been killed abroad, there must be court decisions confirming that Russia was culpable of these crimes.

And in this thread, you can find at least 185 names of victims of political murders in Ukraine whose deaths are – as Ukrainian rules allege – unresolved.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Don't be the Class Dolt, Frank! Credible theory? Putin acted to "save" Russians in Donbass by attacking the rest of Ukraine and slaughtering thousands? That is exactly the rationale that Hitler used to seize territory before WWII.

Odd that the real Nazis in this story are Ukrainian

 

[zaangalewa]

Don't be the Class Dolt, Frank! Credible theory? Putin acted to "save" Russians in Donbass by attacking the rest of Ukraine and slaughtering thousands? That is exactly the rationale that Hitler used to seize territory before WWII.

But in case of Hitler-Germany this had been true. You should really forget your Hitler-Putin comparison. The second greatest group of the people from Czecho-Germano-Slovakia - ah sorry: Czechoslovakia - was heavy under fire from the Slawic nationalists - what's the reason why many of them had been supporters of Adolf Hitler. This nonsense had been produced from the allies of world war 1 and this also had helped Hitler to come in power.

In case of the Donbass region Putin had sent lots of combatants into this region and strengthend or made the riots and problems in this region on his own. The most people who had been murdered there not had been Russians but had been Ukrainians.

 

[zaangalewa]

Odd that the real Nazis in this story are Ukrainian

For idiots! The Ukrainians voted in the last elections for a Jew. So the most Ukrainians are not Nazis and gave a clear signal against Nazism. And in all countries of the world exist some Nazis - in most cases they are only some frustrated members of a sub-culture and like to provoke.

 

[gipper]

You should do stand up comedy, Dude! You honestly think you can come here and whitewash Putin's decades long history of killing and imprisoning his political opposition? I don't know what they're paying you for this nonsense but it's a waste of money!

Here is some good info to help you get informed.

Former Swiss intelligence officer and NATO adviser Jacques Baud on the next phase of the Russia-Ukraine war and new allegations that the US and UK undermined a peace deal that could have ended it.​

The West’s aim “is not the victory of Ukraine, It’s the defeat of Russia,” Baud says. “The problem is that nobody cares about Ukraine. We have just instrumentalized Ukraine for the purpose of US strategic interests — not even European interests.”

Guest: Jacques Baud. Former intelligence officer with the Swiss Strategic Intelligence Service who has served in a number of senior security and advisory positions at NATO, the United Nations, and with the Swiss military.

Corrections:

• In his Sept. 21 speech, Putin did not make an explicit threat to use nuclear weapons. He vowed to “make use of all weapon systems available to us,” in the event of “a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people.”
• On nuclear weapons, the US did not have a “No First Use” policy. On the 2020 campaign trail, Joe Biden said that he supported the idea of “No First Use.” He abandoned that in his presidential nuclear posture; but that was reversing his campaign stance, not official US policy.

US, UK sabotaged peace deal because they 'don't care about Ukraine': fmr. NATO adviser - The Grayzone

 

[SavannahMann]

Who gives a **** who’s worse? Their war is none of the USG’s ******* business.




if only!

Actually. This war is a great thing for the USG. First. We weaken an enemy of peace and international cooperation. Second. We expose for all to see the Russian weakness and solidify our partners and alliances. Third we are given a great test Ed for our weapons systems to show how great they are which will increase demand for them among the same partners and allied nations.

All of those are good things. And lastly. We can end for the next two generations the threat of Russian Expansionism. I won’t even dream of it being forever. But it will last for a long time.

 

[zaangalewa]

... In my opinion ...

Aha ... I do not have any opiions about this because I know nothing about. But I guess I know that Putin sells Russia to China. And if Xi-Jinping again will become leader of China then I will ask myselve what had happened with the far east wisdom.

 

[gipper]

Actually. This war is a great thing for the USG. First. We weaken an enemy of peace and international cooperation. Second. We expose for all to see the Russian weakness and solidify our partners and alliances. Third we are given a great test Ed for our weapons systems to show how great they are which will increase demand for them among the same partners and allied nations.

All of those are good things. And lastly. We can end for the next two generations the threat of Russian Expansionism. I won’t even dream of it being forever. But it will last for a long time.

Except almost none of that is happening. We are weakening ourselves and Europe. Russia has not been exposed. Testing of weapons likely fails too, since Ukes don’t know how to use them or they get sold on the black market or the Russians destroy them before they reach the battlefield.

Of course you ignore the terrible harm you support. Typical of chicken hawks. The thousands of Ukrainian women and children you want murdered purely for your bloodlust, or is it ignorance?

 

[para bellum]

Testing of weapons likely fails too, since Ukes don’t know how to use them or they get sold on the black market or the Russians destroy them before they reach the battlefield.

Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The Russian Invasion Of Ukraine

www.oryxspioenkop.com

 

[gipper]

Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The Russian Invasion Of Ukraine

www.oryxspioenkop.com

We’re told by our media that Russia has no missiles left, yet there was a missile attack today. Makes one think the media can’t be trusted to tell the truth about this war. No?

 

[Oldestyle]

If there is a “Putin's long history of killing his political opposition”, there must be a long list of names of victims who have been killed in Russia and whose deaths are unresolved.

And if they have been killed abroad, there must be court decisions confirming that Russia was culpable of these crimes.

And in this thread, you can find at least 185 names of victims of political murders in Ukraine whose deaths are – as Ukrainian rules allege – unresolved.

"If" there is a long history of Putin killing his political opposition? Funny stuff, Dissident! You KNOW that there is a long list of political opponents that Putin has had killed which tells me your job here is to spread lies.

 

[Oldestyle]

Odd that the real Nazis in this story are Ukrainian

There are no real Nazis in this story, Frank! My point was that Putin claiming that he had to invade Ukraine to "protect" ethnic Russians from persecution was the same strategy that Hitler employed to seize territory before the outbreak of WWII.

 

[Oldestyle]

Except almost none of that is happening. We are weakening ourselves and Europe. Russia has not been exposed. Testing of weapons likely fails too, since Ukes don’t know how to use them or they get sold on the black market or the Russians destroy them before they reach the battlefield.

Of course you ignore the terrible harm you support. Typical of chicken hawks. The thousands of Ukrainian women and children you want murdered purely for your bloodlust, or is it ignorance?

With all due respect...Russia's military HAS been exposed!

 

[Dissident]

... there is a long list of political opponents that Putin has had killed ...

I repeat once again – if “there is a long list of political opponents that Putin has had killed” there must be a long list of NAMES of these victims.

Firstly, there must a long list of NAMES of opposition figures who have been killed in Russia and whose deaths are unresolved.

For example, one cannot include into the list of “Putin’s victims” the lawyer Stanislav Markelov who was shot to death in Moscow in 2009. His murderer – a leading member of Militant Organization of Russian Nationalists (MORN) - was sentenced to life imprisonment already in 2011. Another leader of MORN was arrested in Serbia in 2013, deported to Russia and together with two other members of MORN was sentenced to life imprisonment too.

Or would you insist that Putin has had killed this lawyer and then allowed the Moscow court to sentence his four killers to life imprisonment?

Secondly, when “Putin’s victims” have been killed abroad, there must be a long list of court decisions confirming that Russia was culpable of these crimes.

If you cannot make such a list of names of “Putin’s victims” yourself, please give a link to a source where these names are listed. But please check this list beforehand. It will be YOUR evidence and YOU will be responsible for its correctness.

P.S.
And I repeat once again – I have a link to the source where one can find at least 185 names of victims of political murders in Ukraine whose deaths are – as Ukrainian rules allege – unresolved.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Don't be the Class Dolt, Frank! Credible theory? Putin acted to "save" Russians in Donbass by attacking the rest of Ukraine and slaughtering thousands? That is exactly the rationale that Hitler used to seize territory before WWII.

Don't you like Hitler anymore? Your space programme was built owing to his scientists, his thugs were instrumental in all your never ending wars with USSR or Russia, cold, proxy or whatever. Shouldn't he be your hero?

 

[para bellum]

We’re told by our media that Russia has no missiles left, yet there was a missile attack today. Makes one think the media can’t be trusted to tell the truth about this war. No?

You might have heard that, I haven't. They have used up something like 1800 of the Kalibr/Iskander/KH-101 inventory out of ~2,400 that were available for Ukraine, according to the GSUA. Those estimates are based on the production rate and how long they have been making them, so probably it's not very far off.

They need to reserve some for the NATO or China scenario. The Iranian drones (and now ballistic missiles) support the claims that they have a limited supply of their newer missiles. They are using the drones in lieu, but they are not very effective- more accurate, but less destruction. The repurposing of S-300's and other anti-shipping missiles like KH-55 also speak to a limited supply of newer missiles. Those are not accurate when they are used for ground strike- the seekers cannot differentiate ground targets- they are designed to see ships on open ocean.

I was thinking the other day about Russia's 152mm inventory. I don't know how much stockpile they started out with, but they are looking to North Korea for more. The US and others have been scouring the planet for 152mm ammunition for Ukraine since February- I think that might be a factor for Russia one of these days...

 

[Oldestyle]

Don't you like Hitler anymore? Your space programme was built owing to his scientists, his thugs were instrumental in all your never ending wars with USSR or Russia, cold, proxy or whatever. Shouldn't he be your hero?

What does that drivel even mean? You believe that at some point I "liked" Adolf Hitler? What do you base that nonsense on?

 

[Oldestyle]

I repeat once again – if “there is a long list of political opponents that Putin has had killed” there must be a long list of NAMES of these victims.

Firstly, there must a long list of NAMES of opposition figures who have been killed in Russia and whose deaths are unresolved.

For example, one cannot include into the list of “Putin’s victims” the lawyer Stanislav Markelov who was shot to death in Moscow in 2009. His murderer – a leading member of Militant Organization of Russian Nationalists (MORN) - was sentenced to life imprisonment already in 2011. Another leader of MORN was arrested in Serbia in 2013, deported to Russia and together with two other members of MORN was sentenced to life imprisonment too.

Or would you insist that Putin has had killed this lawyer and then allowed the Moscow court to sentence his four killers to life imprisonment?

Secondly, when “Putin’s victims” have been killed abroad, there must be a long list of court decisions confirming that Russia was culpable of these crimes.

If you cannot make such a list of names of “Putin’s victims” yourself, please give a link to a source where these names are listed. But please check this list beforehand. It will be YOUR evidence and YOU will be responsible for its correctness.

P.S.
And I repeat once again – I have a link to the source where one can find at least 185 names of victims of political murders in Ukraine whose deaths are – as Ukrainian rules allege – unresolved.

Do you really want me to start listing the names of political opponents of Putin that have been murdered?

 

[alexa]

Here is some good info to help you get informed.

Former Swiss intelligence officer and NATO adviser Jacques Baud on the next phase of the Russia-Ukraine war and new allegations that the US and UK undermined a peace deal that could have ended it.​

The West’s aim “is not the victory of Ukraine, It’s the defeat of Russia,” Baud says. “The problem is that nobody cares about Ukraine. We have just instrumentalized Ukraine for the purpose of US strategic interests — not even European interests.”

Guest: Jacques Baud. Former intelligence officer with the Swiss Strategic Intelligence Service who has served in a number of senior security and advisory positions at NATO, the United Nations, and with the Swiss military.

Corrections:

• In his Sept. 21 speech, Putin did not make an explicit threat to use nuclear weapons. He vowed to “make use of all weapon systems available to us,” in the event of “a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people.”
• On nuclear weapons, the US did not have a “No First Use” policy. On the 2020 campaign trail, Joe Biden said that he supported the idea of “No First Use.” He abandoned that in his presidential nuclear posture; but that was reversing his campaign stance, not official US policy.

US, UK sabotaged peace deal because they 'don't care about Ukraine': fmr. NATO adviser - The Grayzone

I was listening to Jeffy Sachs talking about the end of the Soviet Union today and he said that the US never felt friendly towards Russia and never wanted to help them.