Warning: Graphic: It's been 50 years since AP photographer Nick Ut captured image of 9-year-old girl running naked from a napalm attack during Vietnam

[Hector12]

No we did not.

Most of the deatsh were caused by the communists who started the war.

The same standards apply to him and to you. He hasd no right to establish rule over them

How the hell would you know what they wanted?

I have already posted this read it this time.

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Britinnica

In order to deny the NVA and Viet Cong the use of dense forest to conceal their movements and to hide their supply lines and bases, the U.S. Air Force sprayed millions of gallons of a herbicide called Agent Orange along the Vietnamese border with Laos and Cambodia, in areas northwest of Saigon, and along major waterways. Agent Orange was effective in killing vegetation—but only at the price of causing considerable ecological damage to Vietnam and of exposing thousands of people to potentially toxic chemicals that would later cause serious and sometimes fatal health problems...

By the end of 1966, the United States had dropped more bombs on North Vietnam than it had dropped on Japan during World War II and more than it had dropped during the entire Korean War.

Vietnam War - Tet Offensive, Homefront Impact, US Defeat | Britannica

Vietnam War - Tet Offensive, Homefront Impact, US Defeat: The Tet Offensive sent shock waves throughout the United States, startling those who had believed the White House's claims that victory was near and convincing those with doubts that the situation was even worse than they had imagined.

www.britannica.com

 

[Hector12]

The communiostys were responsible for most deaths not us

The average Vietnamese peasant did not want us OR ho chi minh. The average vientamese peasant was illiterate and just wanted to sit in their hamlets harvesting rice and eating the occasional pig.

We never found out because the Southern stooges and their American handlers wouldn't go along with the UN supervised election.

Actually, it was the International Control Commission, but that is close enough.

 

[Soupnazi630]

I am educated on the matter, that's a problem for people like you who live in some alternative reality, Vietnam was not two seperate Countires no matter how much you bark, the dividing line was only temporary until elections could be held under UN supervision to unify the Country, read and learn.

Geneva Accords | History of Indochina & Impact on Vietnam War | Britannica

Geneva Accords, collection of documents relating to Indochina and issuing from the Geneva Conference of April 26–July 21, 1954, attended by representatives of Cambodia, the People’s Republic of China, France, Laos, the United Kingdom, the United States, the Soviet Union, the Viet Minh (i.e., the

www.britannica.com

No you are not.

You are the one living in a fantasy land. Like I tried to explain earlier the people left of center such as yourself do NOT have the market cornered on truth. Whether it is history or science or anything else.

You and others like you are JUST as likely to be brainwahed with jingoistic anti American fiction as a right winger is with pro American jingoistic fiction.

You have ONLY existed in an echo chamber where you assume any spin of history whcih makes the US look bad is the truth.

You are very wrong.

Vietnam was two seperate kingdoms for over a thousand years.

The dividing line was a return to that tradition and never mandated to be temporary.

You need to read more and learn as you are incredibly ignorant about the complex and long history of that culture and the war started by the communists.

 

[Soupnazi630]

I have already posted this read it this time.

----------

Britinnica

In order to deny the NVA and Viet Cong the use of dense forest to conceal their movements and to hide their supply lines and bases, the U.S. Air Force sprayed millions of gallons of a herbicide called Agent Orange along the Vietnamese border with Laos and Cambodia, in areas northwest of Saigon, and along major waterways. Agent Orange was effective in killing vegetation—but only at the price of causing considerable ecological damage to Vietnam and of exposing thousands of people to potentially toxic chemicals that would later cause serious and sometimes fatal health problems...

By the end of 1966, the United States had dropped more bombs on North Vietnam than it had dropped on Japan during World War II and more than it had dropped during the entire Korean War.

Vietnam War - Tet Offensive, Homefront Impact, US Defeat | Britannica

Vietnam War - Tet Offensive, Homefront Impact, US Defeat: The Tet Offensive sent shock waves throughout the United States, startling those who had believed the White House's claims that victory was near and convincing those with doubts that the situation was even worse than they had imagined.

www.britannica.com

You have alreayd been corrected and proven wrong multiple times.

Dropping bombs only kills if they hit near people. Mosty of the bombing was condiucted over empty jungle.


There is no empirical eviddence of this vast ecological damage you claim nor of thoiusands killed by it.



You have epically and massively failed to support yoru orioginal claim that the US killed most of the people who died there.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Nice racist stereotype, i expect you think black people are not fit to vote?

You are a coward and bald faced LIAR.

There is absolutely nothing racist in my post

 

[Hector12]

You have alreayd been corrected and proven wrong multiple times.

Dropping bombs only kills if they hit near people. Mosty of the bombing was condiucted over empty jungle.


There is no empirical eviddence of this vast ecological damage you claim nor of thoiusands killed by it.



You have epically and massively failed to support yoru orioginal claim that the US killed most of the people who died there.

Britannica

The human costs of the long conflict were harsh for all involved. Not until 1995 did Vietnam release its official estimate of war dead: as many as 2 million civilians on both sides and some 1.1 million North Vietnamese and Viet Cong fighters. The U.S. military has estimated that between 200,000 and 250,000 South Vietnamese soldiers died in the war.

Vietnam War | Facts, Summary, Years, Timeline, Casualties, Combatants, & Facts | Britannica

The Vietnam War (1954–75) was a conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam and its allies in South Vietnam, the Viet Cong, against South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. It was part of a larger regional conflict as well as a manifestation of the Cold War.

www.britannica.com

 

[Hector12]

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

"Reviewing the entire episode in retrospect, I find that four questions merit consideration:
(1) Why, with the superiority in manpower and resources available, were the French unable to win?
(2) Why was the very considerable amount of material American aid not more effective in helping the French?
(3) Why, when the French were in difficulty and the interests of the Free World affected, at least indirectly, were the successive French governments unwilling to take logical and reasonable steps to bring United States' and other support to their assistance?
(4) What lessons or benefits, if any, accrued to the Free World as a result?
I am convinced that the French could not win the war because the internal political situation in Vietnam, weak and confused, badly weakened their military position. I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

 

[Hector12]

The Final Declaration of The Geneva Conference: On Restoring Peace in Indochina, July 21, 1954

Final declaration, dated July 21, 1954, of the Geneva Conference on the problem of restoring peace in Indochina, in which the representatives of Cambodia, the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam, France, Laos, the People's Republic of China, the State of Viet-Nam, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom and the United States of America took part...

4. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam prohibiting the introduction into Viet Nam of foreign troops and military personnel as well as of all kinds of arms and munitions.,,

5. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam to the effect that no military base at the disposition of a foreign state may be established in the regrouping zones of the two parties, the latter having the obligation to see that the zones allotted to them shall not constitute part of any military alliance and shall not be utilized for the resumption of hostilities or in the service of an aggressive policy...

7. In order to insure that sufficient progress in the restoration of peace has been made, and that all the necessary conditions obtain for free expression of the national will, general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities.

Source:

from The Department of State Bulletin, XXXI, No. 788 (August 2, 1954), p. 164.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Modern History

 

[Soupnazi630]

Britannica

The human costs of the long conflict were harsh for all involved. Not until 1995 did Vietnam release its official estimate of war dead: as many as 2 million civilians on both sides and some 1.1 million North Vietnamese and Viet Cong fighters. The U.S. military has estimated that between 200,000 and 250,000 South Vietnamese soldiers died in the war.

Vietnam War | Facts, Summary, Years, Timeline, Casualties, Combatants, & Facts | Britannica

The Vietnam War (1954–75) was a conflict that pitted the communist government of North Vietnam and its allies in South Vietnam, the Viet Cong, against South Vietnam and its principal ally, the United States. It was part of a larger regional conflict as well as a manifestation of the Cold War.

www.britannica.com

Wrong.

They released their etimates long before then including while the war was still going on.

The new estimates are revisions and just as likely to be propoganda

 

[Deadstick]

You are a coward and bald faced LIAR.

There is absolutely nothing racist in my post

You said Vietnamese were too ignorant to vote, well i can tell you there are more than enough ignorant voters in my Country and yours, trust me.

 

[Hector12]

Wrong.

They released their etimates long before then including while the war was still going on.

The new estimates are revisions and just as likely to be propoganda

Do you think this is propaganda?

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

"Reviewing the entire episode in retrospect, I find that four questions merit consideration:
(1) Why, with the superiority in manpower and resources available, were the French unable to win?
(2) Why was the very considerable amount of material American aid not more effective in helping the French?
(3) Why, when the French were in difficulty and the interests of the Free World affected, at least indirectly, were the successive French governments unwilling to take logical and reasonable steps to bring United States' and other support to their assistance?
(4) What lessons or benefits, if any, accrued to the Free World as a result?
I am convinced that the French could not win the war because the internal political situation in Vietnam, weak and confused, badly weakened their military position. I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

"Reviewing the entire episode in retrospect, I find that four questions merit consideration:
(1) Why, with the superiority in manpower and resources available, were the French unable to win?
(2) Why was the very considerable amount of material American aid not more effective in helping the French?
(3) Why, when the French were in difficulty and the interests of the Free World affected, at least indirectly, were the successive French governments unwilling to take logical and reasonable steps to bring United States' and other support to their assistance?
(4) What lessons or benefits, if any, accrued to the Free World as a result?
I am convinced that the French could not win the war because the internal political situation in Vietnam, weak and confused, badly weakened their military position. I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

 

[Soupnazi630]

You said Vietnamese were too ignorant to vote, well i can tell you there are more than enough ignorant voters in my Country and yours, trust me.

No I did not

You just posted an outright lie.

Quote me where I said that you worthless punk

 

[Soupnazi630]

Do you think this is propaganda?
Yiou
This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.



This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.


Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

You are misrepresenting what he said.

he never denied any permission and NO ONE in the US denied it

 

[Deadstick]

No I did not

You just posted an outright lie.

Quote me where I said that you worthless punk

The average vientamese peasant was illiterate and just wanted to sit in their hamlets harvesting rice and eating the occasional pig.


That's what you posted, i would say it makes them look ignorant, you could say that about some US people happy to sit in their Appalachian cabin drinking shine all day with a few buckwheat pancakes thrown in.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The average vientamese peasant was illiterate and just wanted to sit in their hamlets harvesting rice and eating the occasional pig.


That's what you posted, i would say it makes them look ignorant, you could say that about some US people happy to sit in their Appalachian cabin drinking shine all day with a few buckwheat pancakes thrown in.

No where did I calll them ignorant you dishonest coward.

yes I could and not WANTING to votre is not the same as being too ignorant.


When you have to outright lie and smear someone it PROVES you are ignorant and not well informed about the subject

 

[Hector12]

You are misrepresenting what he said.

he never denied any permission and NO ONE in the US denied it

What matters is that President Eisenhower said that the overwhelming majority of the Vietnamese supported Ho Chi Minh. How can we fight for democracy when the side we fight against would win a fair election by a blow out?

 

[Soupnazi630]

What matters is that President Eisenhower said that the overwhelming majority of the Vietnamese supported Ho Chi Minh. How can we fight for democracy when the side we fight against would win a fair election by a blow out?

No that does not matter.

One opinion about who would win an election which was never held in the first place is irrelevant

it does not justify that person who might have won siexing power nor does it justify that person starting a war with a neighboring country.

 

[Deadstick]

No where did I calll them ignorant you dishonest coward.

yes I could and not WANTING to votre is not the same as being too ignorant.


When you have to outright lie and smear someone it PROVES you are ignorant and not well informed about the subject

Same difference you Muppet.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Same difference you Muppet.

No it is not you cowardly windbag

youa re a liar and an uneducated motherfucker

That Is PROVEN

 

[Deadstick]

No that does not matter.

One opinion about who would win an election which was never held in the first place is irrelevant

it does not justify that person who might have won siexing power nor does it justify that person starting a war with a neighboring country.

Why was the election not held ? and i have already shown you it was not another Country, the leadership went to war to liberate the Country because there was NO election to unify it.