Warming and cooling is a natural cycle.

[westwall]

Anyone notice that it is winter and that there is almost no snow in the NE? How about the fact that the NE is experiencing one of it's warmest winters ever?

It's called average weather.

Silly old man, the fact that we are now have had two record warm years back to back is average weather. LOL

No, that is a lie as you very well know. NOAA states quite clearly that their instruments can only measure to .1 degree C. Thus the claim that the global temp increased by .038 degrees C is simply false. I can just as easily make the claim the temperature dropped by .038 degrees and it is every bit as valid.

Both statements however remain unsupported by fact thus they would both be lies.

And lies seem to be YOUR specialty don't they....

 

[Old Rocks]

You silly old fart, I have been posting the findings of real scientists from the most recent AGU Conferance. All you post is silliness that you cannot defend.

 

[westwall]

You silly old fart, I have been posting the findings of real scientists from the most recent AGU Conferance. All you post is silliness that you cannot defend.

I can do math which seemingly you can't. You really think I care that you post up links from people who directly benefit from the shit they spew? You think that is somehow compelling?

Grow up you asshat.

 

[flacaltenn]

our climate is not controlled or effected by the things that man does. It is controlled mostly by the sun. It has been that way ever since the fireball cooled, coalesced and became the earth.

AGW is a lie perpetuated by the Democrat Party in this country and socialists all over the world. The purpose of which is to bleed money and power from the world's top countries, especially the USA.

NOAA Website on Climate: Earth’s Hottest Period Occurred Before Man Existed

The Demorats use to call it Global warming ,when that did not work ,the morons changed it to climate change, pathetic losers.
If there so worried may-be Air force One should be moth balled, Obama can use a hot air balloon for his travels.

Perhaps you can make even more stupid statements that this. You really should try. And we can laugh at another ignorant redneck that flaps his silly yap, and demonstrates to the whole world his depth of ignorance.

The present warming is not more natural than 120 ppm of the 400 ppm of CO2 in our atmosphere is normal. That CO2 was put there by man.

Extremely likely that CO2 levels breached 350ppm during this interglacial period without any help from man.
You're just repeating the litany of claims based on polished spin given to the public for the cause..

You made the statement, back it up with some evidence from real scientists. Can you?

I've done that several times. I've put up the low resolution Vostok ice CO2 readings right next to high resolution proxies for the same dates.. You seem to have been stopped in your tracks that ANY proxy is evidence for making wildly exaggerated claims about it. In order to SEE natural variability in the data, the METHODS have to support resolutions in the range of 50 to 100 years... EVEN IF the absolute age is off by more than that. The Vostok data is USUALLY (in the long form data sets) no better than a statement of the 1000 or 2000 year MEAN of those parameters.

You need to see them AGAIN?? Did you not understand them the last 3 or 5 times I've posted hi res CO2 proxies?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Leftists are so narcistic they think they control the weather too.

Just one of the ways that we are already have effects on the weather.

Call me when palm trees and crocodiles return to Alaska. Shame Fred Flinstone ruined it for them.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Down To Earth Climate Change - Resources

For most folks, global climate change is one of those issues we hear about constantly in the news but have a hard time really understanding because the scientific concepts are complex and information presented is often contradictory. One article might say climate change absolutely the result of human activity and the next may argue that it a natural process that has occured many times throughtout Earth's long history. But scientists are in agreement, the global climate is rapidly warming and the causes are rooted in human activity. Some of clearest evidence that global climate change is indeed occuring today and is being caused by human activity comes from carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere. Take a look at the graph below, which shows atmospheric carbon dioxide levels for the past 400,000 years:


As you can see, atmospheric carbon dioxide does naturally fluctuate, but it's never been has high as it is today. Carbon dioxide levels are much higher than they would naturally be if we were not burning so much fossil fuel (like oil, gas and coal). And what scientists have shown by studying hundreds of thousands of years of geological data is that temperature increases in when carbon dioxide increases, so the current spike in carbon dioxide is sure to result in a rapid increase in global temperature. For an excellent and detailed explanation of the global climate system, check out NASA's climate change website by clicking the NASA logo to the left.

I sure as hell don't see 350 ppm anywhere on this graph. Mr. Flacaltenn, please present your evidence for your statement.

I'm pretty good at power point too. Shall I post a graph too?

 

[Old Rocks]

Reconstruction of a continuous high-resolution CO2 record over the past 20 Million years

Citation:
van de Wal, R. S. W. , de Boer, B. , Lourens, L. J. , Köhler, P. and Bintanja, R. (2011): Reconstruction of a continuous high-resolution CO2 record over the past 20 Million years , Climate of the Past, 7 , pp. 1459-1469 . doi: 10.5194/cp-7-1459-2011


The gradual cooling of the climate during the Cenozoic has generally been attributed to a decrease in CO2 concentration in the atmosphere. The lack of transient climate models and in particular the lack of high-resolution proxy records of CO2, beyond the ice-core record prohibit however a full understanding of for example the inception of the Northern Hemisphere glaciation and mid-Pleistocene transition. Here we elaborate on an inverse modelling technique to reconstruct a continuous CO2 series over the past 20 million year (Myr), by decomposing the global deep-sea benthic d18O record into a mutually consistent temperature and sea level record, using a set of 1-D models of the major Northern and Southern Hemisphere ice sheets. We subsequently compared the modelled temperature record with ice core and proxy-derived CO2 data to create a continuous CO2 reconstruction over the past 20 Myr. Results show a gradual decline from 450 ppmv around 15 Myr ago to 225 ppmv for mean conditions of the glacial-interglacial cycles of the last 1 Myr, coinciding with a gradual cooling of the global surface temperature of 10 K. Between 13 to 3 Myr ago there is no long-term sea level variation caused by ice-volume changes. We find no evidence for a change in the long-term relation between temperature change and CO2, other than the effect following from the saturation of the absorption bands for CO2. The reconstructed CO2 record shows that the Northern Hemisphere glaciation starts once the long-term average CO2 concentration drops below 265 ppmv after a period of strong decrease in CO2. Finally, only a small long-term decline of 23 ppmv is found during the mid-Pleistocene transition, constraining theories on this major transition in the climate system. The approach is not accurate enough to revise current ideas about climate sensitivity.

Well, that is one referance to high resolution CO2 proxies.

 

[flacaltenn]

Last time for you.. Wouldn't be putting this up again for just any ole denier.. Take notes. I'm not going down this rathole again...


https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/55430jptfk27j6ng/images/11-dea67dc7e8.jpg

A new stomatal proxy-based record of CO2 concentrations ([CO2]), based onBetula nana(dwarf birch)leaves from the Hässeldala Port sedimentary sequence in south-eastern Sweden, is presented. The recordis of high chronological resolution and spans most of Greenland Interstadial 1 (GI-1a to 1c, Allerød pollenzone), Greenland Stadial 1 (GS-1, Younger Dryas pollen zone) and the very beginning of the Holocene(Preboreal pollen zone). The record clearly demonstrates that i) [CO2] were significantly higher thanusually reported for the Last Termination and ii) the overall pattern of CO
2 evolution through the studiedtime period is fairly dynamic, with significant abrupt fluctuations in [CO2] when the climate moved frominterstadial to stadial state and vice versa

A new loss-on-ignition chemical record (used here as a proxyfor temperature) lends independent support to the Hässeldala Port [CO2] record. The large-amplitude fluctuations around the climate change transitions may indicate unstable climates and that “tipping-point” situations were involved in Last Termination climate evolution. The scenario presented here is in contrast to [CO2]records reconstructed from air bubbles trapped in ice, which indicate lower concen-trations and a gradual, linear increase of [CO2] through time. The prevalent explanation for the mainclimate forcer during the Last Termination being ocean circulation patterns needs to re-examined, and a larger role for atmospheric [CO2] considered

And there's plenty more of this...


Fig. 14) Kouwenberg (2004) Figure 5.4: Reconstruction of paleo-atmospheric CO2 levels when stomatal frequency of fossil needles is converted to CO2 mixing ratios using the relation between CO2 and TSDL as quantified in the training set. Black line represents a 3 point running average based on 3–5 needles per depth. Grey area indicates the RMSE in the calibration. White diamonds are data measured in the Taylor Dome ice core (Indermühle et al., 1999); white squares CO2 measurements from the Law Dome ice-core (Etheridge et al., 1996). Inset: Training set of TSDL response of Tsuga heterophylla needles from the Pacific Northwest region to CO2 changes over the past century

NOTE -- in both of those (as in all of the HI RES studies of CO2 -- the ice core data is nothing more than a general mean value -- showing little or any response to changes under a 1000 years in duration..

 

[Pop23]

The earth does not circle the sun on exactly the same path year after year.

Nuff said?

 

[flacaltenn]

And a third -- look it up for yourself..

Stomatal proxy record of CO2 concentrations from the last termination suggests an important role for CO2 at climate change transitions


We believe that our record has the fidelity to accurately reflect the evolution of [CO2] during this well-constrained time interval at an approximately 50 year resolution.

 

[edthecynic]

Leftists are so narcistic they think they control the weather too.

And yet deniers say the temperature data is flawed because of the "Urban Heat Island" effect caused by .... wait for it .... PEOPLE

 

[Old Rocks]

Atmospheric CO2 over the last 1000 years: A high-resolution record from the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) Divide ice core


Abstract
[1] We report a decadally resolved record of atmospheric CO2 concentration for the last 1000 years, obtained from the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) Divide shallow ice core. The most prominent feature of the pre-industrial period is a rapid ∼7 ppm decrease of CO2 in a span of ∼20–50 years at ∼1600 A.D. This observation confirms the timing of an abrupt atmospheric CO2 decrease of ∼10 ppm observed for that time period in the Law Dome ice core CO2 records, but the true magnitude of the decrease remains unclear. Atmospheric CO2 variations over the time period 1000–1800 A.D. are statistically correlated with northern hemispheric climate and tropical Indo-Pacific sea surface temperature. However, the exact relationship between CO2 and climate remains elusive due to regional climate variations and/or uneven geographical data density of paleoclimate records. We observe small differences of 0 ∼ 2% (0 ∼ 6 ppm) among the high-precision CO2 records from the Law Dome, EPICA Dronning Maud Land and WAIS Divide Antarctic ice cores. However, those records share common trends of CO2 change on centennial to multicentennial time scales, and clearly show that atmospheric CO2 has been increasing above preindustrial levels since ∼1850 A.D

Doesn't seem to be much differance here.

Leftists are so narcistic they think they control the weather too.

Just one of the ways that we are already have effects on the weather.

Call me when palm trees and crocodiles return to Alaska. Shame Fred Flinstone ruined it for them.

Around 50 million years ago, Earth was in the firm grip of one of the hottest chapters in the planet's last 65 million years, yet new evidence indicates the climate may not have been quite as steamy as previously thought.


New research suggests that during the Eocene, the formal title for the epoch studied, water temperatures in the subtropics hovered around 80 degrees Fahrenheit (27 degrees Celsius), slightly cooler than earlier studies predicted.


"There were crocodiles above the Arctic Circle and palm trees in Alaska," said Linda Ivany, co-author of a new study and associate professor of earth sciences at Syracuse University, in a statement. "The questions we are trying to answer are how much warmer was it at different latitudes, and how can that information be used to project future temperatures based on what we know about [carbon dioxide] levels?"

During the Eocene, Earth's atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) levels were higher than they are today, and delving into the correlation between CO2 and temperature in the past may help scientists better understand how CO2 levels affect global warming during the human epoch.

http://www.adn.com/article/alaska-once-hot-enough-palm-trees

Well yes, 50 million years ago when the CO2 and CH4 levels were much higher than today, Alaska was much warmer. Exactly our point.

 

[flacaltenn]

Here's your original view of proxy CO2 levels and the OUTRAGEOUS lie in the title. Or at least the breathless exaggeration and unscientific leap to conclusions that an OBJECTIVE and KNOWLEDGEABLE scientist would never make..

You understand why I'm a skeptic now?? It's because folks like this should know better than to SPIN science.

They are preying on the lazy and the stupid who worship labcoats.. .

 

[flacaltenn]

Atmospheric CO2 over the last 1000 years: A high-resolution record from the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) Divide ice core


Abstract
[1] We report a decadally resolved record of atmospheric CO2 concentration for the last 1000 years, obtained from the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) Divide shallow ice core. The most prominent feature of the pre-industrial period is a rapid ∼7 ppm decrease of CO2 in a span of ∼20–50 years at ∼1600 A.D. This observation confirms the timing of an abrupt atmospheric CO2 decrease of ∼10 ppm observed for that time period in the Law Dome ice core CO2 records, but the true magnitude of the decrease remains unclear. Atmospheric CO2 variations over the time period 1000–1800 A.D. are statistically correlated with northern hemispheric climate and tropical Indo-Pacific sea surface temperature. However, the exact relationship between CO2 and climate remains elusive due to regional climate variations and/or uneven geographical data density of paleoclimate records. We observe small differences of 0 ∼ 2% (0 ∼ 6 ppm) among the high-precision CO2 records from the Law Dome, EPICA Dronning Maud Land and WAIS Divide Antarctic ice cores. However, those records share common trends of CO2 change on centennial to multicentennial time scales, and clearly show that atmospheric CO2 has been increasing above preindustrial levels since ∼1850 A.D

Doesn't seem to be much differance here.

That's because you will NEVER get full centennial resolution from an ice core. The CO2 diffuses too easily over time and is too influenced by the rate of ice build-up..

Did you just BLOW OFF the studies you REQUIRED me to re-post for you? Are you ignoring them AGAIN so as not make your head explode? Already forgot that I'm showing you RECENT excursions above 350ppm of CO2?

No wonder you don't remember.. You can't allow yourself to remember.. Because it would **** with your faith in all the slogans and misrepresented claims that you parrot about..

 

[Old Rocks]

Last time for you.. Wouldn't be putting this up again for just any ole denier.. Take notes. I'm not going down this rathole again...


https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/55430jptfk27j6ng/images/11-dea67dc7e8.jpg

A new stomatal proxy-based record of CO2 concentrations ([CO2]), based onBetula nana(dwarf birch)leaves from the Hässeldala Port sedimentary sequence in south-eastern Sweden, is presented. The recordis of high chronological resolution and spans most of Greenland Interstadial 1 (GI-1a to 1c, Allerød pollenzone), Greenland Stadial 1 (GS-1, Younger Dryas pollen zone) and the very beginning of the Holocene(Preboreal pollen zone). The record clearly demonstrates that i) [CO2] were significantly higher thanusually reported for the Last Termination and ii) the overall pattern of CO
2 evolution through the studiedtime period is fairly dynamic, with significant abrupt fluctuations in [CO2] when the climate moved frominterstadial to stadial state and vice versa

A new loss-on-ignition chemical record (used here as a proxyfor temperature) lends independent support to the Hässeldala Port [CO2] record. The large-amplitude fluctuations around the climate change transitions may indicate unstable climates and that “tipping-point” situations were involved in Last Termination climate evolution. The scenario presented here is in contrast to [CO2]records reconstructed from air bubbles trapped in ice, which indicate lower concen-trations and a gradual, linear increase of [CO2] through time. The prevalent explanation for the mainclimate forcer during the Last Termination being ocean circulation patterns needs to re-examined, and a larger role for atmospheric [CO2] considered

And there's plenty more of this...


Fig. 14) Kouwenberg (2004) Figure 5.4: Reconstruction of paleo-atmospheric CO2 levels when stomatal frequency of fossil needles is converted to CO2 mixing ratios using the relation between CO2 and TSDL as quantified in the training set. Black line represents a 3 point running average based on 3–5 needles per depth. Grey area indicates the RMSE in the calibration. White diamonds are data measured in the Taylor Dome ice core (Indermühle et al., 1999); white squares CO2 measurements from the Law Dome ice-core (Etheridge et al., 1996). Inset: Training set of TSDL response of Tsuga heterophylla needles from the Pacific Northwest region to CO2 changes over the past century

NOTE -- in both of those (as in all of the HI RES studies of CO2 -- the ice core data is nothing more than a general mean value -- showing little or any response to changes under a 1000 years in duration..

One proxy, and you are going to take it above all the rest? Well, this will be worked out, as there are a great many differant proxies, and the vast majority do not indicate what this one does. However, to your credit, that is good science,

 

[flacaltenn]

Last time for you.. Wouldn't be putting this up again for just any ole denier.. Take notes. I'm not going down this rathole again...


https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/55430jptfk27j6ng/images/11-dea67dc7e8.jpg

A new stomatal proxy-based record of CO2 concentrations ([CO2]), based onBetula nana(dwarf birch)leaves from the Hässeldala Port sedimentary sequence in south-eastern Sweden, is presented. The recordis of high chronological resolution and spans most of Greenland Interstadial 1 (GI-1a to 1c, Allerød pollenzone), Greenland Stadial 1 (GS-1, Younger Dryas pollen zone) and the very beginning of the Holocene(Preboreal pollen zone). The record clearly demonstrates that i) [CO2] were significantly higher thanusually reported for the Last Termination and ii) the overall pattern of CO
2 evolution through the studiedtime period is fairly dynamic, with significant abrupt fluctuations in [CO2] when the climate moved frominterstadial to stadial state and vice versa

A new loss-on-ignition chemical record (used here as a proxyfor temperature) lends independent support to the Hässeldala Port [CO2] record. The large-amplitude fluctuations around the climate change transitions may indicate unstable climates and that “tipping-point” situations were involved in Last Termination climate evolution. The scenario presented here is in contrast to [CO2]records reconstructed from air bubbles trapped in ice, which indicate lower concen-trations and a gradual, linear increase of [CO2] through time. The prevalent explanation for the mainclimate forcer during the Last Termination being ocean circulation patterns needs to re-examined, and a larger role for atmospheric [CO2] considered

And there's plenty more of this...


Fig. 14) Kouwenberg (2004) Figure 5.4: Reconstruction of paleo-atmospheric CO2 levels when stomatal frequency of fossil needles is converted to CO2 mixing ratios using the relation between CO2 and TSDL as quantified in the training set. Black line represents a 3 point running average based on 3–5 needles per depth. Grey area indicates the RMSE in the calibration. White diamonds are data measured in the Taylor Dome ice core (Indermühle et al., 1999); white squares CO2 measurements from the Law Dome ice-core (Etheridge et al., 1996). Inset: Training set of TSDL response of Tsuga heterophylla needles from the Pacific Northwest region to CO2 changes over the past century

NOTE -- in both of those (as in all of the HI RES studies of CO2 -- the ice core data is nothing more than a general mean value -- showing little or any response to changes under a 1000 years in duration..

One proxy, and you are going to take it above all the rest? Well, this will be worked out, as there are a great many differant proxies, and the vast majority do not indicate what this one does. However, to your credit, that is good science,

**** off -- if you're not gonna read what I post.. I gave you THREE studies.. I've got about 4 more..

 

[Old Rocks]

Last time for you.. Wouldn't be putting this up again for just any ole denier.. Take notes. I'm not going down this rathole again...


https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/55430jptfk27j6ng/images/11-dea67dc7e8.jpg

A new stomatal proxy-based record of CO2 concentrations ([CO2]), based onBetula nana(dwarf birch)leaves from the Hässeldala Port sedimentary sequence in south-eastern Sweden, is presented. The recordis of high chronological resolution and spans most of Greenland Interstadial 1 (GI-1a to 1c, Allerød pollenzone), Greenland Stadial 1 (GS-1, Younger Dryas pollen zone) and the very beginning of the Holocene(Preboreal pollen zone). The record clearly demonstrates that i) [CO2] were significantly higher thanusually reported for the Last Termination and ii) the overall pattern of CO
2 evolution through the studiedtime period is fairly dynamic, with significant abrupt fluctuations in [CO2] when the climate moved frominterstadial to stadial state and vice versa

A new loss-on-ignition chemical record (used here as a proxyfor temperature) lends independent support to the Hässeldala Port [CO2] record. The large-amplitude fluctuations around the climate change transitions may indicate unstable climates and that “tipping-point” situations were involved in Last Termination climate evolution. The scenario presented here is in contrast to [CO2]records reconstructed from air bubbles trapped in ice, which indicate lower concen-trations and a gradual, linear increase of [CO2] through time. The prevalent explanation for the mainclimate forcer during the Last Termination being ocean circulation patterns needs to re-examined, and a larger role for atmospheric [CO2] considered

And there's plenty more of this...


Fig. 14) Kouwenberg (2004) Figure 5.4: Reconstruction of paleo-atmospheric CO2 levels when stomatal frequency of fossil needles is converted to CO2 mixing ratios using the relation between CO2 and TSDL as quantified in the training set. Black line represents a 3 point running average based on 3–5 needles per depth. Grey area indicates the RMSE in the calibration. White diamonds are data measured in the Taylor Dome ice core (Indermühle et al., 1999); white squares CO2 measurements from the Law Dome ice-core (Etheridge et al., 1996). Inset: Training set of TSDL response of Tsuga heterophylla needles from the Pacific Northwest region to CO2 changes over the past century

NOTE -- in both of those (as in all of the HI RES studies of CO2 -- the ice core data is nothing more than a general mean value -- showing little or any response to changes under a 1000 years in duration..

One proxy, and you are going to take it above all the rest? Well, this will be worked out, as there are a great many differant proxies, and the vast majority do not indicate what this one does. However, to your credit, that is good science,

**** off -- if you're not gonna read what I post.. I gave you THREE studies.. I've got about 4 more..

LOL. Touchy, touchy. Are they all stomatal? Then that is one proxy method.

Plant stomata show higher and more variable CO2 levels

Firstly, ice-core CO2 measurements are direct measurements on air that has been enclosed in bubbles. On the other hand, stomatal density is an indirect measure. Experiments on stomata density showed that "the stomatal response to increasing atmospheric CO2 was identical to that induced by removing water from the plant roots" (Idso et al 1984). In other words, stomatal index data may not be the able to measure the atmospheric concentration as precisely as its proponents would like.

Secondly, several different ice-core data sets are essentially consistent. Artifacts do appear in earlier ice core records - mainly the Greenland drill sites where CO2 was depleted through a chemical reaction - but there are no such indications of this in the Taylor Dome ice core. In any event, this is a known phenomena, and one that can be accounted for. These records all indicate the CO2 concentration from 260 to 280 ppmv during the preindustrial Holocene.

Good science, but open to various interpretations. Maybe it was drier during those periods for those plants.

 

[flacaltenn]

And further more -- if CARED about anything other than ice cores as proxies and had looked at those 3 ---
you would have found that they are confirming the work and references to DOZENS of other similar studies.

You're hopeless. You thrive on purposely inflated and exaggerated claims not supported by the BULK of the work on those issues..

 

[Old Rocks]

And you want to cherry pick data to fit your preconceived political notions. Sorry, it is not flying with the vast majority of scientists worldwide. Not only that, your supposed limit of 1 degree for the doubling of CO2 will be surpassed this year. And we are only experiancing the warming effects of the GHGs in the atmosphere 30 to 50 years ago.

 

[flacaltenn]

Last time for you.. Wouldn't be putting this up again for just any ole denier.. Take notes. I'm not going down this rathole again...


https://html1-f.scribdassets.com/55430jptfk27j6ng/images/11-dea67dc7e8.jpg

A new stomatal proxy-based record of CO2 concentrations ([CO2]), based onBetula nana(dwarf birch)leaves from the Hässeldala Port sedimentary sequence in south-eastern Sweden, is presented. The recordis of high chronological resolution and spans most of Greenland Interstadial 1 (GI-1a to 1c, Allerød pollenzone), Greenland Stadial 1 (GS-1, Younger Dryas pollen zone) and the very beginning of the Holocene(Preboreal pollen zone). The record clearly demonstrates that i) [CO2] were significantly higher thanusually reported for the Last Termination and ii) the overall pattern of CO
2 evolution through the studiedtime period is fairly dynamic, with significant abrupt fluctuations in [CO2] when the climate moved frominterstadial to stadial state and vice versa

A new loss-on-ignition chemical record (used here as a proxyfor temperature) lends independent support to the Hässeldala Port [CO2] record. The large-amplitude fluctuations around the climate change transitions may indicate unstable climates and that “tipping-point” situations were involved in Last Termination climate evolution. The scenario presented here is in contrast to [CO2]records reconstructed from air bubbles trapped in ice, which indicate lower concen-trations and a gradual, linear increase of [CO2] through time. The prevalent explanation for the mainclimate forcer during the Last Termination being ocean circulation patterns needs to re-examined, and a larger role for atmospheric [CO2] considered

And there's plenty more of this...


Fig. 14) Kouwenberg (2004) Figure 5.4: Reconstruction of paleo-atmospheric CO2 levels when stomatal frequency of fossil needles is converted to CO2 mixing ratios using the relation between CO2 and TSDL as quantified in the training set. Black line represents a 3 point running average based on 3–5 needles per depth. Grey area indicates the RMSE in the calibration. White diamonds are data measured in the Taylor Dome ice core (Indermühle et al., 1999); white squares CO2 measurements from the Law Dome ice-core (Etheridge et al., 1996). Inset: Training set of TSDL response of Tsuga heterophylla needles from the Pacific Northwest region to CO2 changes over the past century

NOTE -- in both of those (as in all of the HI RES studies of CO2 -- the ice core data is nothing more than a general mean value -- showing little or any response to changes under a 1000 years in duration..

One proxy, and you are going to take it above all the rest? Well, this will be worked out, as there are a great many differant proxies, and the vast majority do not indicate what this one does. However, to your credit, that is good science,

**** off -- if you're not gonna read what I post.. I gave you THREE studies.. I've got about 4 more..

LOL. Touchy, touchy. Are they all stomatal? Then that is one proxy method.

Plant stomata show higher and more variable CO2 levels

Firstly, ice-core CO2 measurements are direct measurements on air that has been enclosed in bubbles. On the other hand, stomatal density is an indirect measure. Experiments on stomata density showed that "the stomatal response to increasing atmospheric CO2 was identical to that induced by removing water from the plant roots" (Idso et al 1984). In other words, stomatal index data may not be the able to measure the atmospheric concentration as precisely as its proponents would like.

Secondly, several different ice-core data sets are essentially consistent. Artifacts do appear in earlier ice core records - mainly the Greenland drill sites where CO2 was depleted through a chemical reaction - but there are no such indications of this in the Taylor Dome ice core. In any event, this is a known phenomena, and one that can be accounted for. These records all indicate the CO2 concentration from 260 to 280 ppmv during the preindustrial Holocene.

Good science, but open to various interpretations. Maybe it was drier during those periods for those plants.

Not likely to find a method with adequate resolution to LEAP to the kind of conclusions you want to see. ALL proxies have severe issues. In the case of plants, the CO2 incorporated in any time slice does not migrate over thousands of years as it does in ice cores.

And if you LOOKED at the studies -- they cover similar time periods from various locations that all seem to agree. Not likely that other environmental issues are masking the accuracy.. They've been studied in MANY locations..