War in Ukraine - News and More

[Deadstick]

Yeah, I know about this line of reasoning, and it has some ground. Russia 'shouldn't ' tolerate that and it made steps to thwart that. How successful they were, the time will show.

But I like this way of reasoning 'It is not NATO expanding to the East, it is the East joining NATO'. A dozen countries from Estonia in the north to Bulgaria on the south joined the bloc voluntarily. That was their conscious and sovereign choice. Somehow, the history shows that once a nation was in Russian sphere, it doesn't want anymore to get back into that. Strange, eh.

There was the time when the US had to cope with a pro-Soviet hostile regime in Cuba with military bases there. The Putin regime should learn how to cope with a 'hostile regime' in Ukraine. (It may not happen this way, of course. It is just my wishful thinking).

It's the leaders of those Countries, they think they are on the winning side by joining Nato, which is just a foreign legion for the US Reich, some of them made the same mistake when they joined up with the Nazis, that's what we see now in Ukraine, all the Regime in Ukraine had to do was stick to Minsk 2 and rule out joining Nato, but there was another agenda at work.

 

[Bleipriester]

And it's my option to point that out. Your debating skills are more akin to a couple 7 year olds.

It is your option to lie around. Everyone can visit the news and see what a lying peace of shit you are.
But I made a screenshot for those you scared away:

And now stop littering this information thread with your heinous presence.

 

[Vrenn]

It is your option to lie around. Everyone can visit the news and see what a lying peace of shit you are.
But I made a screenshot for those you scared away:

And now stop littering this information thread with your heinous presence.

No.

 

[ESay]

It's the leaders of those Countries, they think they are on the winning side by joining Nato, which is just a foreign legion for the US Reich, some of them made the same mistake when they joined up with the Nazis, that's what we see now in Ukraine, all the Regime in Ukraine had to do was stick to Minsk 2 and rule out joining Nato, but there was another agenda at work.

The EU and NATO are the best things that happened to Europe in generations. If they decide to dump that it is up to them.

Ukraine had quite slim chances to preserve itself in the 1991 borders as united and single country.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

Where ?
Who ?

The left has a new toy

 

[ESay]

As long as Selensky empty-handendly storms the Russians and scarifies hundreds of thousands for two meters of soil, for what reason ever (I guess he is fulfilling US-conditions for continued support), the war will certainly not end. Russia´s peace offer at the UN was just ignored.

I don't know whose idea was to start this 'counter-offensive' campaign. Zelensky or Biden or someone else. Not sure it matters at all. They seem to be worth each other on the competence level.

 

[Deadstick]

The EU and NATO are the best things that happened to Europe in generations. If they decide to dump that it is up to them.

Ukraine had quite slim chances to preserve itself in the 1991 borders as united and single country.

Ukraine had quite slim chances to preserve itself in the 1991 borders as united and single country.

Yes and then they went all Bandera trying to live the fantasy from the 1940s, they have been the architects of their own destruction, whatever comes out of the conflict Ukraine will not be the same as it was in 1991.

 

[Bleipriester]

I don't know whose idea was to start this 'counter-offensive' campaign. Zelensky or Biden or someone else. Not sure it matters at all. They seem to be worth each other on the competence level.

Zelensky is more competent than I initially thought, his problem now is that the West wants to install an anti-Russian werewolf at the border and nothing else. They have been clearing their storages and will tell him to negotiate soon. UK, France and Germany told him at the beginning of the year, that this might happen.

 

[ESay]

Ukraine had quite slim chances to preserve itself in the 1991 borders as united and single country.

Yes and then they went all Bandera trying to live the fantasy from the 1940s, they have been the architects of their own destruction, whatever comes out of the conflict Ukraine will not be the same as it was in 1991.

Yes, what the Ukrainians have been doing since the 1990s is destroying our own country.

 

[Deadstick]

Yes, what the Ukrainians have been doing since the 1990s is destroying our own country.

Yes that's just about it.

 

[Silver Cat]

Yeah, I know about this line of reasoning, and it has some ground. Russia 'shouldn't ' tolerate that and it made steps to thwart that. How successful they were, the time will show.

But I like this way of reasoning 'It is not NATO expanding to the East, it is the East joining NATO'. A dozen countries from Estonia in the north to Bulgaria on the south joined the bloc voluntarily. That was their conscious and sovereign choice. Somehow, the history shows that once a nation was in Russian sphere, it doesn't want anymore to get back into that. Strange, eh.

As well as former Ukrainian regions willingly joined Russia. Surely, many nations want to have business with Russia (or the US, China and other countries), and, simultaneously, want to keep their independence (while all economical relationships mean co-dependence).

There was the time when the US had to cope with a pro-Soviet hostile regime in Cuba with military bases there. The Putin regime should learn how to cope with a 'hostile regime' in Ukraine. (It may not happen this way, of course. It is just my wishful thinking).

You know, how Putin (and other Russian leaders) cope with the hostile regimes. Chechen scenario, or Georgian scenario, or a number of African scenarios. Zelenskiy and his cronies will be killed or imprisoned. All open enemies of Russia will change their minds or will be killed. Equal rights for the Russian-speakers and laymen of Ukrainian Orthodoxal Church (Moscow Patriarchy). And then FSB and other organizations will purge the society from "Cryptokhokhly". Actually, there not to many of them, and even less will stay in Ukraine. You know - " True Ukrainian should live in Canada".

 

[Silver Cat]

Yes, what the Ukrainians have been doing since the 1990s is destroying our own country.

I'm not sure, if Zelenskiy, or Poroshenko, or Yanukovich, or anybody else, actually saw Ukraine as "their own country" or "just a place to work".

 

[ESay]

You know, how Putin (and other Russian leaders) cope with the hostile regimes. Chechen scenario, or Georgian scenario, or a number of African scenarios. Zelenskiy and his cronies will be killed or imprisoned. All open enemies of Russia will change their minds or will be killed. Equal rights for the Russian-speakers and laymen of Ukrainian Orthodoxal Church (Moscow Patriarchy). And then FSB and other organizations will purge the society from "Cryptokhokhly". Actually, there not to many of them, and even less will stay in Ukraine. You know - " True Ukrainian should live in Canada

Who knows, Russian. Maybe thanks to two main incompetent POSes - Biden and Zelensky - your wishes will come true. Though, as always you will screw up again.

 

[Kruska]

Who knows, Russian. Maybe thanks to two main incompetent POSes - Biden and Zelensky - your wishes will come true. Though, as always you will screw up again.

I never found the Goebbels scholar to be incompetent - he factually did a great job. Personally I believe that Zelensky was/is acting upon his own conviction and conscience. He clearly obeyed NATO and the USA a 100%.
NATO/USA is simply doing the math now as usual in politics - and since there is no profit in sight with the share-company Ukraine, the investments are naturally reduced.

It is also obvious that the USA and EU are preparing their new favorite/s to take over the bankrolling or Bankruptcy Administration of the Ukraine. aka President. Russia will keep control over it's occupied territories (as always intended) - and the moment rest-Ukraine attempts to factually join NATO - Russia will attack again.

The EU has "invested" around US$ 90 billion into the Ukraine share - more then the USA!! - and they now need to decide if their existing and future investment is safe without Ukraine being in NATO.

As for your statement:
Ukraine had quite slim chances to preserve itself in the 1991 borders as united and single country.

I totally disagree - Ukraine had every chance - since Putin only came into the picture from 2000 onward and the Russian Armed Forces were totally incapable before 2008 - and aren't much more capable in 2023.
It was Ukraine's own respective governments that could never be bothered with the national security and economy of "their" country - but instead choose to completely rely onto others, whilst bathing themselves in corruption and personal splendor. Just look at Ukraine's defense budgets from 1991 - 2014.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Ukraine had quite slim chances to preserve itself in the 1991 borders as united and single country.

Let me guess, Russians as usual, right? But look at this guy. I've got a hunch he's of a different opinion.

 

[ESay]

It is also obvious that the USA and EU are preparing their new favorite/s to take over the bankrolling or Bankruptcy Administration of the Ukraine. aka President. Russia will keep control over it's occupied territories (as always intended) - and the moment rest-Ukraine attempts to factually join NATO - Russia will attack again

It is pointless. Whether Zelensky stays in power or will be replaced by someone else, what does it change? It is not Ukraine that decided its fate.

As for your statement:
Ukraine had quite slim chances to preserve itself in the 1991 borders as united and single country

Ukrainian 'elite' never had and maybe still doesn't have a state-wide mindset. Basically, it never viewed Ukraine as a single statehood. Every 'clan' had his regional patch that was used only for personal enrichment.

 

[Silver Cat]

It is pointless. Whether Zelensky stays in power or will be replaced by someone else, what does it change? It is not Ukraine that decided its fate.

The fate of Belarus was decided by their people. The fate of Georgia was decided by their people. The fate of America was decided by their people.

Ukrainian 'elite' never had and maybe still doesn't have a state-wide mindset. Basically, it never viewed Ukraine as a single statehood. Every 'clan' had his regional patch that was used only for personal enrichment.

It's not just about 'clans'. It's about people, first of all. There is no "Ukrainian people" as somehow real unity. There is the "population of the Borderland". Ukraine is Frankenstein, artificially created by a small number of political idealists and villains, mostly from other states. The Austro-hungarians created them as a retaliation for the Russian creation of the Czech's, the Poles used them as a tool for anti-Russian uprising and as slaves in their state, the Commies created Ukraine as a counterweight for the "Great-Russian Chauvinism", EU and NATO tried to use it to counter Russia. Biden use the war simply to steal some money.
Nobody cares about "Ukrainian people", may be, except the Russians who do care about "Russian-speaking people of the Borderland", and are actually emotionally involved.

 

[Kruska]

It is pointless. Whether Zelensky stays in power or will be replaced by someone else, what does it change? It is not Ukraine that decided its fate.

Ukrainian 'elite' never had and maybe still doesn't have a state-wide mindset. Basically, it never viewed Ukraine as a single statehood. Every 'clan' had his regional patch that was used only for personal enrichment.

You seem to make it very easy to blame "others". The fault and responsibility lies with the Ukrainians - nobody else. The Maidan revolution in 2014 made it very clear that the majority of the Ukrainians was fed up with their "usual" politicians and as such were very clearly in support of Zelensky and his party during the election campaign of 2019 and their anti-corruption stance.

Zelensky thought that up-keeping the NATO admission would help him to get rid of the Russians in Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk. That was his mistake - he should have concentrated onto getting the remaining Ukraine into shape first - find an arrangement with Putin, whilst simply taking into account that Putin will most likely leave office around 2024/5. And signing security assistance treaties with NATO - whilst clearly stating that Ukraine will remain NEUTRAL.

 

[ESay]

You seem to make it very easy to blame "others". The fault and responsibility lies with the Ukrainians - nobody else. The Maidan revolution in 2014 made it very clear that the majority of the Ukrainians was fed up with their "usual" politicians and as such were very clearly in support of Zelensky and his party during the election campaign of 2019 and their anti-corruption stance.

Zelensky thought that up-keeping the NATO admission would help him to get rid of the Russians in Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk. That was his mistake - he should have concentrated onto getting the remaining Ukraine into shape first - find an arrangement with Putin, whilst simply taking into account that Putin will most likely leave office around 2024/5. And signing security assistance treaties with NATO - whilst clearly stating that Ukraine will remain NEUTRAL.

You seem don't get clearly what I am trying to say. Of course it is Ukrainians themselves to blame for their fate. The 'dissolution' of Ukrainian state began long before 2014. Virtually from the very beginning in 90s.

Side nor. Putin will leave in 24/25?. Yeah, very funny.

 

[Deadstick]

You seem to make it very easy to blame "others". The fault and responsibility lies with the Ukrainians - nobody else. The Maidan revolution in 2014 made it very clear that the majority of the Ukrainians was fed up with their "usual" politicians and as such were very clearly in support of Zelensky and his party during the election campaign of 2019 and their anti-corruption stance.

Zelensky thought that up-keeping the NATO admission would help him to get rid of the Russians in Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk. That was his mistake - he should have concentrated onto getting the remaining Ukraine into shape first - find an arrangement with Putin, whilst simply taking into account that Putin will most likely leave office around 2024/5. And signing security assistance treaties with NATO - whilst clearly stating that Ukraine will remain NEUTRAL.

But the majority of Donbass were not in favour of the Regime that came to power after the 2014 coup, they voted by a big majority for Yanukovych as bad as he was, then they woke one morning to find the elected Government had been overthrown with foreign backing, the rest is history.