Want Peace? End The Occupation

[Auteur]

Auteur, et al,

I'll try and answer.

My point is that the PA, the Arab League, and indeed the consensus of world opinion (outside of the usual suspects) is that a reasonable peace plan is on the table. Far from being the reprehensible war mongers you describe, the above have come out with a reasonable, indeed generous, offer of peace, which has been rejected by Israel. It is likely the best deal they are going to get, and should accept it, before everybody and his dog in the Middle East is equipped with nuclear weapons, and the stakes go up exponentially.

(COMMENT)

I see no directly authored, peace proposal by the Palestinian Authority/State of Palestine.

While there are several independently developed and/or suggested Peace Plan Proposals, there is nothing on the table from the Palestinians at this time (that I can find). And there have been no real gestures of peace from the Palestinians that I can find.

SECSTATE John Kerry is attempting to re-open negotiations between the heads of state, but even that has turned out to be a chore.

I think you are being disingenuous Mr R. It's right there on the PA website. The Saudi peace proposal is their position. The only reason they are not at the bargining table is they know they are being made fools of, which ongoing expropriation and settlement of the west bank while they are supposed to be "negociating" the status of those territories. It's a sham, and all know it. Well, almost all.

The official proposals are plastered all over the various websites in question, have been addressed in the UN, and multiple other venues. I believe you have seen essential parts, as you have reproduced them here.

(COMMENT)

I have seen specific proposals. But there is nothing on the table that both sides have agreed to in reality. Having said that,




(COMMENT)

In my view, the Palestinians are not trying to "hold on to their own country;" because no one is trying to take it (I'm not sure anyone wants it). The Palestinians are in an "Occupation" status, for security quarantine purposes and rear area protection.

Having said that, I believe there is a prima facie case against the Israelis relative to apparent violations of:

(viii) The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory;

SOURCE: Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court

But THEN!, the HoAP must also keep in mind that they can't throw rocks in a glass house. The need for occupation did not just materialize. There was a history, a secession of events that provoked the construction of the wall and to tighten "occupation" controls.

• Recalling the duty of States to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State,

• Reiterating its strong condemnation of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, committed by whomever, wherever and for whatever purposes, as it constitutes one of the most serious threats to international peace and security,

• Affirming that in areas such as conflict prevention, negotiation, mediation, conciliation, judicial settlement, rule of law, peacekeeping and peace building , in order to contribute to the successful prevention and peaceful resolution of prolonged unresolved conflicts.

That the Palestinian has a known record and established past history of criminal and terrorist behaviors that have not met with these qualities and standards. That it is an undisputed fact that over the last 65 years, the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) has not refrained from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities. Whether we talk about the plight of bomb maker Sami Issawi, or the Olympic Team Terrorist attack in Munich, the hijacking of the MS Achille Lauro, the taking of numerous airliners, tossing bodies on the tarmac and throwing crippled people overboard, or any number of suicide bombing in the past. There is an established history of criminal behaviors. While today, the HoAP is trying to establish itself as a victim, one must also be conscious of the true nature and barbarity of the persona. Yes, there are some signs that the HoAP may be in the stage of rehabilitation, we must be cautiously aware that the domesticated terrorist is still a terrorist (a tiger never really loses it stripes); and could fall off the wagon at any time.

Millions would disagree with you, as the recent vote on the status of Palestine in the UN gives one small example. Further, you base much of your claims on assigning personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings, which flies in the face of basic sociological and psychological knowledge today.

(COMMENT)

I really don't assign or profile anything based on "personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings." It is the past history of criminal behaviors that warrant attention and countermeasures in the potential of criminal recidivism. I seldom rely on the plastic sciences for either prosecutorial purposes, or as an indicator of reintegration into the general community of nations on a productive level. HoAP (as well as others I could name) have a markedly distorted sense of the potential consequences of their actions. This discussion, if nothing else, demonstrates that on a dramatic level. Whether the HoAP tries to pin the blame of the current political distress on the US and Israelis, or whether the plight of their children are somehow the responsibility of someone other than their parents, the dynamic range of their victim persona is quite remarkable.

No, I don't use "personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings" as a crutch or shorthand to evaluate to individual, the group, or the culture. I use empirical evidence based on a past pattern of behaviors.

Most Respectfully,
R

Except that you used exactly that shorthand in the above post. You referred to "the Palestinian", a population of ten million, as though it were a single person. Have you interviewed all these people? Have you done a meta-analysis of the available polls? Even if you had, your information would be subject to bias and lack of complete information. Your casual claim that they all are a certain way is simply prejudice.

 

[toastman]

Auteur, et al,

I'll try and answer.

My point is that the PA, the Arab League, and indeed the consensus of world opinion (outside of the usual suspects) is that a reasonable peace plan is on the table. Far from being the reprehensible war mongers you describe, the above have come out with a reasonable, indeed generous, offer of peace, which has been rejected by Israel. It is likely the best deal they are going to get, and should accept it, before everybody and his dog in the Middle East is equipped with nuclear weapons, and the stakes go up exponentially.

(COMMENT)

I see no directly authored, peace proposal by the Palestinian Authority/State of Palestine.

While there are several independently developed and/or suggested Peace Plan Proposals, there is nothing on the table from the Palestinians at this time (that I can find). And there have been no real gestures of peace from the Palestinians that I can find.

SECSTATE John Kerry is attempting to re-open negotiations between the heads of state, but even that has turned out to be a chore.

I think you are being disingenuous Mr R. It's right there on the PA website. The Saudi peace proposal is their position. The only reason they are not at the bargining table is they know they are being made fools of, which ongoing expropriation and settlement of the west bank while they are supposed to be "negociating" the status of those territories. It's a sham, and all know it. Well, almost all.

(COMMENT)

I have seen specific proposals. But there is nothing on the table that both sides have agreed to in reality. Having said that,




(COMMENT)

In my view, the Palestinians are not trying to "hold on to their own country;" because no one is trying to take it (I'm not sure anyone wants it). The Palestinians are in an "Occupation" status, for security quarantine purposes and rear area protection.

Having said that, I believe there is a prima facie case against the Israelis relative to apparent violations of:



But THEN!, the HoAP must also keep in mind that they can't throw rocks in a glass house. The need for occupation did not just materialize. There was a history, a secession of events that provoked the construction of the wall and to tighten "occupation" controls.

• Recalling the duty of States to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State,

• Reiterating its strong condemnation of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, committed by whomever, wherever and for whatever purposes, as it constitutes one of the most serious threats to international peace and security,

• Affirming that in areas such as conflict prevention, negotiation, mediation, conciliation, judicial settlement, rule of law, peacekeeping and peace building , in order to contribute to the successful prevention and peaceful resolution of prolonged unresolved conflicts.

That the Palestinian has a known record and established past history of criminal and terrorist behaviors that have not met with these qualities and standards. That it is an undisputed fact that over the last 65 years, the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) has not refrained from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities. Whether we talk about the plight of bomb maker Sami Issawi, or the Olympic Team Terrorist attack in Munich, the hijacking of the MS Achille Lauro, the taking of numerous airliners, tossing bodies on the tarmac and throwing crippled people overboard, or any number of suicide bombing in the past. There is an established history of criminal behaviors. While today, the HoAP is trying to establish itself as a victim, one must also be conscious of the true nature and barbarity of the persona. Yes, there are some signs that the HoAP may be in the stage of rehabilitation, we must be cautiously aware that the domesticated terrorist is still a terrorist (a tiger never really loses it stripes); and could fall off the wagon at any time.

Millions would disagree with you, as the recent vote on the status of Palestine in the UN gives one small example. Further, you base much of your claims on assigning personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings, which flies in the face of basic sociological and psychological knowledge today.

(COMMENT)

I really don't assign or profile anything based on "personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings." It is the past history of criminal behaviors that warrant attention and countermeasures in the potential of criminal recidivism. I seldom rely on the plastic sciences for either prosecutorial purposes, or as an indicator of reintegration into the general community of nations on a productive level. HoAP (as well as others I could name) have a markedly distorted sense of the potential consequences of their actions. This discussion, if nothing else, demonstrates that on a dramatic level. Whether the HoAP tries to pin the blame of the current political distress on the US and Israelis, or whether the plight of their children are somehow the responsibility of someone other than their parents, the dynamic range of their victim persona is quite remarkable.

No, I don't use "personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings" as a crutch or shorthand to evaluate to individual, the group, or the culture. I use empirical evidence based on a past pattern of behaviors.

Most Respectfully,
R

Except that you used exactly that shorthand in the above post. You referred to "the Palestinian", a population of ten million, as though it were a single person. Have you interviewed all these people? Have you done a meta-analysis of the available polls? Even if you had, your information would be subject to bias and lack of complete information. Your casual claim that they all are a certain way is simply prejudice.

Except for the fact that he didn't claim that.

 

[MJB12741]

Gosh I hate to have to educate you here but is it not true the majority of Palestinian people themselves elected Hamas to carry out their wishes in dealing with Israel? And is it not true that the Hamas charter calls for the annihilation of Israel?

Auteur, et al,

I'll try and answer.

My point is that the PA, the Arab League, and indeed the consensus of world opinion (outside of the usual suspects) is that a reasonable peace plan is on the table. Far from being the reprehensible war mongers you describe, the above have come out with a reasonable, indeed generous, offer of peace, which has been rejected by Israel. It is likely the best deal they are going to get, and should accept it, before everybody and his dog in the Middle East is equipped with nuclear weapons, and the stakes go up exponentially.

(COMMENT)

I see no directly authored, peace proposal by the Palestinian Authority/State of Palestine.

While there are several independently developed and/or suggested Peace Plan Proposals, there is nothing on the table from the Palestinians at this time (that I can find). And there have been no real gestures of peace from the Palestinians that I can find.

SECSTATE John Kerry is attempting to re-open negotiations between the heads of state, but even that has turned out to be a chore.

I think you are being disingenuous Mr R. It's right there on the PA website. The Saudi peace proposal is their position. The only reason they are not at the bargining table is they know they are being made fools of, which ongoing expropriation and settlement of the west bank while they are supposed to be "negociating" the status of those territories. It's a sham, and all know it. Well, almost all.

(COMMENT)

I have seen specific proposals. But there is nothing on the table that both sides have agreed to in reality. Having said that,




(COMMENT)

In my view, the Palestinians are not trying to "hold on to their own country;" because no one is trying to take it (I'm not sure anyone wants it). The Palestinians are in an "Occupation" status, for security quarantine purposes and rear area protection.

Having said that, I believe there is a prima facie case against the Israelis relative to apparent violations of:



But THEN!, the HoAP must also keep in mind that they can't throw rocks in a glass house. The need for occupation did not just materialize. There was a history, a secession of events that provoked the construction of the wall and to tighten "occupation" controls.

• Recalling the duty of States to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State,

• Reiterating its strong condemnation of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, committed by whomever, wherever and for whatever purposes, as it constitutes one of the most serious threats to international peace and security,

• Affirming that in areas such as conflict prevention, negotiation, mediation, conciliation, judicial settlement, rule of law, peacekeeping and peace building , in order to contribute to the successful prevention and peaceful resolution of prolonged unresolved conflicts.

That the Palestinian has a known record and established past history of criminal and terrorist behaviors that have not met with these qualities and standards. That it is an undisputed fact that over the last 65 years, the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) has not refrained from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities. Whether we talk about the plight of bomb maker Sami Issawi, or the Olympic Team Terrorist attack in Munich, the hijacking of the MS Achille Lauro, the taking of numerous airliners, tossing bodies on the tarmac and throwing crippled people overboard, or any number of suicide bombing in the past. There is an established history of criminal behaviors. While today, the HoAP is trying to establish itself as a victim, one must also be conscious of the true nature and barbarity of the persona. Yes, there are some signs that the HoAP may be in the stage of rehabilitation, we must be cautiously aware that the domesticated terrorist is still a terrorist (a tiger never really loses it stripes); and could fall off the wagon at any time.

Millions would disagree with you, as the recent vote on the status of Palestine in the UN gives one small example. Further, you base much of your claims on assigning personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings, which flies in the face of basic sociological and psychological knowledge today.

(COMMENT)

I really don't assign or profile anything based on "personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings." It is the past history of criminal behaviors that warrant attention and countermeasures in the potential of criminal recidivism. I seldom rely on the plastic sciences for either prosecutorial purposes, or as an indicator of reintegration into the general community of nations on a productive level. HoAP (as well as others I could name) have a markedly distorted sense of the potential consequences of their actions. This discussion, if nothing else, demonstrates that on a dramatic level. Whether the HoAP tries to pin the blame of the current political distress on the US and Israelis, or whether the plight of their children are somehow the responsibility of someone other than their parents, the dynamic range of their victim persona is quite remarkable.

No, I don't use "personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings" as a crutch or shorthand to evaluate to individual, the group, or the culture. I use empirical evidence based on a past pattern of behaviors.

Most Respectfully,
R

Except that you used exactly that shorthand in the above post. You referred to "the Palestinian", a population of ten million, as though it were a single person. Have you interviewed all these people? Have you done a meta-analysis of the available polls? Even if you had, your information would be subject to bias and lack of complete information. Your casual claim that they all are a certain way is simply prejudice.

 

[MJB12741]

No reply. Gosh I wonder why?

Auteur, et al,

I'll try and answer.


(COMMENT)

I see no directly authored, peace proposal by the Palestinian Authority/State of Palestine.

While there are several independently developed and/or suggested Peace Plan Proposals, there is nothing on the table from the Palestinians at this time (that I can find). And there have been no real gestures of peace from the Palestinians that I can find.

SECSTATE John Kerry is attempting to re-open negotiations between the heads of state, but even that has turned out to be a chore.

I think you are being disingenuous Mr R. It's right there on the PA website. The Saudi peace proposal is their position. The only reason they are not at the bargining table is they know they are being made fools of, which ongoing expropriation and settlement of the west bank while they are supposed to be "negociating" the status of those territories. It's a sham, and all know it. Well, almost all.

(COMMENT)

I have seen specific proposals. But there is nothing on the table that both sides have agreed to in reality. Having said that,




(COMMENT)

In my view, the Palestinians are not trying to "hold on to their own country;" because no one is trying to take it (I'm not sure anyone wants it). The Palestinians are in an "Occupation" status, for security quarantine purposes and rear area protection.

Having said that, I believe there is a prima facie case against the Israelis relative to apparent violations of:



But THEN!, the HoAP must also keep in mind that they can't throw rocks in a glass house. The need for occupation did not just materialize. There was a history, a secession of events that provoked the construction of the wall and to tighten "occupation" controls.

• Recalling the duty of States to refrain in their international relations from military, political, economic or any other form of coercion aimed against the political independence or territorial integrity of any State,

• Reiterating its strong condemnation of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations, committed by whomever, wherever and for whatever purposes, as it constitutes one of the most serious threats to international peace and security,

• Affirming that in areas such as conflict prevention, negotiation, mediation, conciliation, judicial settlement, rule of law, peacekeeping and peace building , in order to contribute to the successful prevention and peaceful resolution of prolonged unresolved conflicts.

That the Palestinian has a known record and established past history of criminal and terrorist behaviors that have not met with these qualities and standards. That it is an undisputed fact that over the last 65 years, the Hostile Arab/Palestinian (HoAP) has not refrained from organizing, instigating, facilitating, participating in, financing, encouraging or tolerating terrorist activities. Whether we talk about the plight of bomb maker Sami Issawi, or the Olympic Team Terrorist attack in Munich, the hijacking of the MS Achille Lauro, the taking of numerous airliners, tossing bodies on the tarmac and throwing crippled people overboard, or any number of suicide bombing in the past. There is an established history of criminal behaviors. While today, the HoAP is trying to establish itself as a victim, one must also be conscious of the true nature and barbarity of the persona. Yes, there are some signs that the HoAP may be in the stage of rehabilitation, we must be cautiously aware that the domesticated terrorist is still a terrorist (a tiger never really loses it stripes); and could fall off the wagon at any time.


(COMMENT)

I really don't assign or profile anything based on "personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings." It is the past history of criminal behaviors that warrant attention and countermeasures in the potential of criminal recidivism. I seldom rely on the plastic sciences for either prosecutorial purposes, or as an indicator of reintegration into the general community of nations on a productive level. HoAP (as well as others I could name) have a markedly distorted sense of the potential consequences of their actions. This discussion, if nothing else, demonstrates that on a dramatic level. Whether the HoAP tries to pin the blame of the current political distress on the US and Israelis, or whether the plight of their children are somehow the responsibility of someone other than their parents, the dynamic range of their victim persona is quite remarkable.

No, I don't use "personal characteristics to ethnic/national/racial groupings" as a crutch or shorthand to evaluate to individual, the group, or the culture. I use empirical evidence based on a past pattern of behaviors.

Most Respectfully,
R

Except that you used exactly that shorthand in the above post. You referred to "the Palestinian", a population of ten million, as though it were a single person. Have you interviewed all these people? Have you done a meta-analysis of the available polls? Even if you had, your information would be subject to bias and lack of complete information. Your casual claim that they all are a certain way is simply prejudice.

Except for the fact that he didn't claim that.

 

[georgephillip]

What you fail to accept is that the "occupation" that the Arabs want to end is the existence of ANY Jewish State. That's what they teach their kids, and preach in speeches giveb in Arabic.

You're right about chutzpah, though. For the Arabs to think they can "negotiate" Israel out of existence is the epitome of chutzpah.

Racist, fundamentalist Jews direct the same blind hatred toward Arabs that you rightly criticize racist, fundamentalists Arabs for, or do you believe, as Rabbi Abraham Kook did "the difference between a Jewish soul and souls of non-Jews...is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle"? Are you naive enough to believe there are not thousands of IDF troops who believe such tripe?

Are you bringing up Rabbi Kook again while you conveniently overlook all the Muslim clerics trying to incite their members to kill the Christians and the Jews and the rest of the Infidels, which means you, Georgie Boy? George Boy is so pathetic. Whenever he finds something from a miniscule group of Rabbis, he is right there quoting said Rabbi over and over, but of course never says anything about all those many Islamic clerics who would like to see all of us non Muslims either dead or converted to Islam. Georgie Boy is one of those people for whom the word Dhimwit was coined.

Extremist religious rabbis may be small in number in Israel, but they project their racist bigotry throughout the IDF which makes Hesder a much greater threat to peace in Palestine than Hamas:

"Hesder (in Hebrew: 'arrangement'; or Yeshivat Hesder ישיבת הסד&#1512 is an Israeli yeshiva program which combines advanced Talmudic studies with military service in the Israel Defense Forces, usually within a Religious Zionist framework.

"These yeshivot allow religious Jews to fulfill the ideal of full and active participation in the defense of the Israeli people, while still engaging in intense Torah study during their formative years."

Rabbi Kook isn't the only religious bigot I've come across among the Jews:

"In 1981, Rabbi Harav Lichtenstein's article, 'The Ideology of Hesder: The View from Yeshivat Har Etzion", explained that: 'Hesder... seeks to attract and develop bnei torah (religious individuals) who are profoundly motivated by the desire to become serious and talmidei machamim (religiously knowledgeable) but who concurrently feel morally and religiously bound to help defend their people and their country; who... regard this dual commitment as both a privilege and a duty... it thus enables them to maintain an integrated Jewish experience.'

"Nearly all Hesder graduates perform combat service for up to six years.

"Today 41 schools operate throughout Israel. In 1991, Hesder was awarded the Israel Prize (the state's highest honour) for its exceptional service to the nation.

"One commander expressed how many feel in explaining the military's mission: 'We are the Jewish people. We came to this land by a miracle. God brought us back to this land and now we need to fight to expel the Gentiles who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land.'"

Would you have any problems with a US military that preached the miracle of American Exceptionalism?

Al-Ahram Weekly | Focus | Religious fundamentalism in Israel

 

[HistoryBefore67]

NON-SEQUITUR ALERT!

You have not established that Hesder schools teach "exceptionalism," as you term it.

You have not established that, even if (assuming for the sake of argument) Hesder schools teach "exceptionalism," these teachings have permeated the IDF as a whole.

In fact, you have not established anything other than the obvious point that there are extremist individuals in every group.

All that stated, if the question is - would I want the US military to teach soldiers to be proud of their country and committed to its protection, the answer is "Hell, yeah!"

 

[Hossfly]

The occupation is the root cause of this ongoing conflict between Israel & the Palestinian squatters. Peace will come only when & if Israel ends the occupation by finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands. Call it a One State Solution. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

Found this little gem that hasn't been reported by most of the media:

Kerry: Israeli settlements not obstacle to peace

The Palestinian Authority and its supporters around the world regularly single out Jewish "settlements" on the biblical lands of Judea and Samaria as, if not the sole, then certainly the primary obstacle to peace.

But US Secretary of State John Kerry said before his departure from the region earlier this week that, in fact, Jewish settlements are not the primary obstacle to peace.


Kerry: Israeli settlements not obstacle to peace - Israel Today | Israel News

 

[georgephillip]

NON-SEQUITUR ALERT!

You have not established that Hesder schools teach "exceptionalism," as you term it.

You have not established that, even if (assuming for the sake of argument) Hesder schools teach "exceptionalism," these teachings have permeated the IDF as a whole.

In fact, you have not established anything other than the obvious point that there are extremist individuals in every group.

All that stated, if the question is - would I want the US military to teach soldiers to be proud of their country and committed to its protection, the answer is "Hell, yeah!"

"THE NEAR THREAT OF (EXCEPTIONAL) EXTREMISM: Others in Israel teach the extremist notion that the 10 Commandments don't apply to non-Jews. So killing them in defending the homeland is acceptable, and according to Rabbi Dov Lior, chairman of the Jewish Rabbinic Council: 'There is no such thing as enemy civilians in war time. The law of our Torah is to have mercy on our soldiers and to save them... A thousand non-Jewish lives are not worth a Jew's fingernail.'

"Rabbi David Batsri called Arabs 'a blight, a devil, a disaster... donkeys, and we have to ask ourselves why God didn't create them to walk on all fours. Well, the answer is that they are needed to build and clean.' Extremist zealots want them for no other purpose in Jewish society.

"In 2007, Israel's former chief rabbi, Mordechai Elyahu, called for the Israeli army to mass murder Palestinians. In fanatical language he said: 'If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill 1,000. And if they don't stop after 1,000, then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000. Even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop.'

In March 2009, Safed's chief rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu called for 'state-sponsored revenge' to restore 'Israel's deterrence... It's time to call the child by its name: revenge, revenge, revenge. We mustn't forget. We have to take horrible revenge for the terrorist attack at Mercaz Harav yeshiva,' referring to an earlier incident in which eight students died. 'I am not talking about individual people in particular. I'm talking about the state. (It) has to pain them where they scream "Enough," to the point where they fall flat on their face and scream 'help!'"

Al-Ahram Weekly | Focus | Religious fundamentalism in Israel

 

[MJB12741]

Let's face it, we are talking about peace from Palestinians. And who knows Palestinians better than Jordan. Regretfully Jordan had to massacre around 20,000 Palestinians to communicate a lasting peace from them. Hopefully the Palestinians will not continue to push Israel to such high numbers to communicate a lasting peace.

I am in total agree with this thinking you quoted--- "In 2007, Israel's former chief rabbi, Mordechai Elyahu, called for the Israeli army to mass murder Palestinians. In fanatical language he said: 'If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill 1,000. And if they don't stop after 1,000, then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000. Even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop.
Whatever it takes, LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

NON-SEQUITUR ALERT!

You have not established that Hesder schools teach "exceptionalism," as you term it.

You have not established that, even if (assuming for the sake of argument) Hesder schools teach "exceptionalism," these teachings have permeated the IDF as a whole.

In fact, you have not established anything other than the obvious point that there are extremist individuals in every group.

All that stated, if the question is - would I want the US military to teach soldiers to be proud of their country and committed to its protection, the answer is "Hell, yeah!"

"THE NEAR THREAT OF (EXCEPTIONAL) EXTREMISM: Others in Israel teach the extremist notion that the 10 Commandments don't apply to non-Jews. So killing them in defending the homeland is acceptable, and according to Rabbi Dov Lior, chairman of the Jewish Rabbinic Council: 'There is no such thing as enemy civilians in war time. The law of our Torah is to have mercy on our soldiers and to save them... A thousand non-Jewish lives are not worth a Jew's fingernail.'

"Rabbi David Batsri called Arabs 'a blight, a devil, a disaster... donkeys, and we have to ask ourselves why God didn't create them to walk on all fours. Well, the answer is that they are needed to build and clean.' Extremist zealots want them for no other purpose in Jewish society.

"In 2007, Israel's former chief rabbi, Mordechai Elyahu, called for the Israeli army to mass murder Palestinians. In fanatical language he said: 'If they don't stop after we kill 100, then we must kill 1,000. And if they don't stop after 1,000, then we must kill 10,000. If they still don't stop we must kill 100,000. Even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop.'

In March 2009, Safed's chief rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu called for 'state-sponsored revenge' to restore 'Israel's deterrence... It's time to call the child by its name: revenge, revenge, revenge. We mustn't forget. We have to take horrible revenge for the terrorist attack at Mercaz Harav yeshiva,' referring to an earlier incident in which eight students died. 'I am not talking about individual people in particular. I'm talking about the state. (It) has to pain them where they scream "Enough," to the point where they fall flat on their face and scream 'help!'"

Al-Ahram Weekly | Focus | Religious fundamentalism in Israel

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

The occupation is the root cause of this ongoing conflict between Israel & the Palestinian squatters. Peace will come only when & if Israel ends the occupation by finding an incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands. Call it a One State Solution. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

Found this little gem that hasn't been reported by most of the media:

Kerry: Israeli settlements not obstacle to peace

The Palestinian Authority and its supporters around the world regularly single out Jewish "settlements" on the biblical lands of Judea and Samaria as, if not the sole, then certainly the primary obstacle to peace.

But US Secretary of State John Kerry said before his departure from the region earlier this week that, in fact, Jewish settlements are not the primary obstacle to peace.


Kerry: Israeli settlements not obstacle to peace - Israel Today | Israel News

It hasn't been reported in the rmedia because it doesn't suit the media's agenda. The comment on your link from Mark Bernadine has it correct.

That is a good site by the way. I have bookmarked it.

 

[MJB12741]

After receiving rocket missiles as a Palestinian thank you to Israel for giving them their Jew free Gaza as requested, let us hope Israel has learned to never grant the Palestinians anything else on their endless demands.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

After receiving rocket missiles as a Palestinian thank you to Israel for giving them their Jew free Gaza as requested, let us hope Israel has learned to never grant the Palestinians anything else on their endless demands.

Particularly let us hope that Israel doesn't give away the West Bank. Can you imagine militarily what that would mean.

For those not up to scratch with what I am saying, here is the detail.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaNV5ZzSs9I]Israel's Indefensible 1967 Borders.flv - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MJB12741]

After the 67 war Israel even offered to return the entire West Bank back to Jordan for nothing in return. Jordan knows Palestinians well & was smart enough to refuse the offer prefering to sacrifice this piece of land to dump their Palestinians on Israel.

After receiving rocket missiles as a Palestinian thank you to Israel for giving them their Jew free Gaza as requested, let us hope Israel has learned to never grant the Palestinians anything else on their endless demands.

Particularly let us hope that Israel doesn't give away the West Bank. Can you imagine militarily what that would mean.

For those not up to scratch with what I am saying, here is the detail.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaNV5ZzSs9I]Israel's Indefensible 1967 Borders.flv - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Bloodrock44]

Why would I want peace already? That would be a waste of excellent training. Not to mention all the money for weapons and ammo!

 

[Kondor3]

"...Particularly let us hope that Israel doesn't give away the West Bank..."

Frankly, I doubt that Israel will be satisified with anything less than total control over both the West Bank and Gaza, with the indigenous Muslim-Arab populations shifted elsewhere; perhaps distributed between Lebanon and Jordan.

The Israelis need defensible borders and they are well along the road to achieving them.

 

[José]

Why would I want peace already? That would be a waste of excellent training. Not to mention all the money for weapons and ammo!

To reduce the arab desire to turn thousands of american civilians into hamburger meat.

 

[Bloodrock44]

From what I am told. you are very fond of American hamburger meat.

 

[José]

Naahh...

You're probably mistaking me for the rest of the Board...

If I enjoyed seeing thousands of innocent american civilians murdered on a beautiful NYC morning, I would be here joining the morally depraved posters who delight themselves at the disgusting spectacle of a racist state killing an "undesired" ethnic group to keep its "racial character".

If I wanted to see an endless succession of 9/11s, killing thousands of civilians and plunging the whole world into the deepest international crisis since the end of the Cold War, I would be here, together with the rest of the idiots, cheering for that totally dysfunctional supremacist state and not calling for its peaceful dismantlement.

 

[Kondor3]

 

[José]

LOL

With "patriots" like you, Kondor, America doesn't even need Al Qaeda.