Walter Cronkite's Ridiculous Spin on the 1968 Tet Offensive in South Vietnam

[Soupnazi630]

Wow, that's a lot of macho chest-thumping there. I'm guessing you don't have a DD214.

The military aspects were beside the point. It wasn't the ability to hold objectives that was the issue, it was that people really started to question what the hell we were doing over there. They were questioning why the draft was taking poor people while the affluent got into the National Guard (Bush and Quayle), got college deferments (Gingrich and Cheney), or got bullshit medical excuses (Limbaugh). They honestly questioned why the South Vietnamese couldn't fight their own damned war. They were wondering why we were bombing and defoliating a smaller, weaker country for not picking the kind of government we wanted.

Now, if you were to believe Mormon Mike, (A guy who has a website where he claims the Rape of Nanking wasn't that bad, and the Japanese were justified in bombing Pear Harbor), why, this was a fantastic victory, and that dirty Pinko Conkrite stole it from us by asking the obvious question of what the hell we were doing there.

No it is simply fact and you never served either you chicken hawk bastard

The military issue were the ONLY point.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it"

"I am convinced that the French could not win the war because the internal political situation in Vietnam, weak and confused, badly weakened their military position. I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai."

Source:

from The Department of State Bulletin, XXXI, No. 788 (August 2, 1954), p. 164.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Modern History

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The Final Declaration of The Geneva Conference: On Restoring Peace in Indochina, July 21, 1954

Final declaration, dated July 21, 1954, of the Geneva Conference on the problem of restoring peace in Indochina, in which the representatives of Cambodia, the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam, France, Laos, the People's Republic of China, the State of Viet-Nam, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom and the United States of America took part...

5. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam to the effect that no military base at the disposition of a foreign state may be established in the regrouping zones of the two parties...

6. The Conference recognizes that the essential purpose of the agreement relating to Viet-Nam is to settle military questions with a view to ending hostilities and that the military demarcation line should not in any way be interpreted as constituting a political or territorial boundary...

7. In order to insure that sufficient progress in the restoration of peace has been made, and that all the necessary conditions obtain for free expression of the national will, general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities. Consultations will be held on this subject between the competent representative authorities of the two zones from April 20, 1955, onwards...

Source:

from The Department of State Bulletin, XXXI, No. 788 (August 2, 1954), p. 164.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Modern History

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Vietnam was unimportant to America's economy and security. In Vietnam the United States was in the awkward position of claiming to be fighting for democracy in a country where Ho Chi Minh would have won a fair election under international supervision by a blow out.

The election was not held because Ngo Dinh Diem, who ousted Bao Dai, and ruled South Vietnam as a dictator, did not allow it to be held in South Vietnam, and the United States supported him.

Ho Chi Minh does not deserve to be completely exonerated, however. He could have still allowed the election to be held in North Vietnam. He could have invited journalists to come to North Vietnam from all over the world to verify that the election was an honest one.

He could have governed North Vietnam as a democratic socialist. With his popularity he could have allowed a loyal opposition and an adversary press.

While governing democratically he could have drawn attention to the dictatorial methods Ngo Dinh Diem was using to stay in power in South Vietnam. Eventually Ho Chi Minh could have united Vietnam under his leadership without a war.

Why didn't he do that? Probably because he made the mistake of modeling himself after Vladimir Lenin, the first Communist dictator of the Soviet Union. Lenin knew that he was unpopular in Russia, and that he had to rule as a dictator to stay in power.

Cronkite was a fucking traitor

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The problem with this thinking is that you really believe the issue was "communism" when it was, in fact, nationalism and self-determination.

Ho Chi Mihn was seen as a national hero. He had fought the French and the Japanese, while the people we propped up, "Emperor" Bao Dai, Diem, Ky, and Theiu, were all collaborators with whoever was invading the country this week.

On the American side, you had a criminally unfair draft that conscripted the poor and exempted the rich.

The American people didn't need Conkrite to tell them this was wrong, they just had to look at it to know it was.

JoeB Social Credit score just went up! Big Time!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Wow, that's a lot of macho chest-thumping there. I'm guessing you don't have a DD214.

The military aspects were beside the point. It wasn't the ability to hold objectives that was the issue, it was that people really started to question what the hell we were doing over there. They were questioning why the draft was taking poor people while the affluent got into the National Guard (Bush and Quayle), got college deferments (Gingrich and Cheney), or got bullshit medical excuses (Limbaugh). They honestly questioned why the South Vietnamese couldn't fight their own damned war. They were wondering why we were bombing and defoliating a smaller, weaker country for not picking the kind of government we wanted.

Now, if you were to believe Mormon Mike, (A guy who has a website where he claims the Rape of Nanking wasn't that bad, and the Japanese were justified in bombing Pear Harbor), why, this was a fantastic victory, and that dirty Pinko Conkrite stole it from us by asking the obvious question of what the hell we were doing there.

Joe "5 Vietnam deferments" Biden

 

[Hector12]

Cronkite was a fucking traitor

Walter Cronkite figured out that the War in Vietnam was tragically futile. South Vietnam was unnecessary to America's security and economy. We devastated Vietnam in an effort to prevent the ascension of a leader the vast majority of the Vietnamese wanted.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Walter Cronkite figured out that the War in Vietnam was tragically futile. South Vietnam was unnecessary to America's security and economy. We devastated Vietnam in an effort to prevent the ascension of a leader the vast majority of the Vietnamese wanted.

We inflicted one of the worst defeats on the enemy and Cronkite called it for the Commies. Fuck him

Vietnam War was unnecessary and that's why JFK was assassinated

 

[Hector12]

Wrong

The issue was communist aggression

The communists from the north WERE the foreign aggressors.

The Tet offensive was a massive defeat for them and cronkite never addressed or made Americans aware of any issues with the draft making him a fool and you a liar

The Communists from the North were fighting to enforce the Geneva Agreement of 1954. It said that the division of Vietnam in to northern and southern sectors was temporary, and it forbade the entry of foreign troops and bases into Vietnam.

 

[Hector12]

We inflicted one of the worst defeats on the enemy and Cronkite called it for the Commies. Fuck him

American involvement in that war was unjust for reasons I have already stated in this thread.

 

[Seymour Flops]

The problem with this thinking is that you really believe the issue was "communism" when it was, in fact, nationalism and self-determination.

Ho Chi Mihn was seen as a national hero. He had fought the French and the Japanese, while the people we propped up, "Emperor" Bao Dai, Diem, Ky, and Theiu, were all collaborators with whoever was invading the country this week.

On the American side, you had a criminally unfair draft that conscripted the poor and exempted the rich.

The American people didn't need Conkrite to tell them this was wrong, they just had to look at it to know it was.

It was nationalism. But on the part of South Vietnam, who were the invaded ones. North Vietnam invading another country in the name of self-determination is absurd.

As to it not being a problem of communism:

 

[CrusaderFrank]

American involvement in that war was unjust for reasons I have already stated in this thread.

No argument from me at all on that

 

[JoeB131]

No it is simply fact and you never served either you chicken hawk bastard

The military issue were the ONLY point.

Sorry, 11 years US Army, reserve and active.

The problem was, of course, that after Tet, people knew the government was lying about Vietnam.

Joe "5 Vietnam deferments" Biden

Except Biden's deferments came before the war started, as he was already too old to be drafted.

 

[JoeB131]

It was nationalism. But on the part of South Vietnam, who were the invaded ones. North Vietnam invading another country in the name of self-determination is absurd.

As to it not being a problem of communism:

You're citing John Wayne's half-ass propaganda movie as a source?

South Vietnam wasn't invaded. Vietnam drove out the French. The French set up a quisling regime. No one supported it, and if there was an election, Ho Chi Mihn would have won 80% of the vote.

Once we left, the South Vietnamese dropped their weapons and gave up.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Sorry, 11 years US Army, reserve and active.

The problem was, of course, that after Tet, people knew the government was lying about Vietnam.



Except Biden's deferments came before the war started, as he was already too old to be drafted.

almost exact same age as Trump, right?

 

[JoeB131]

almost exact same age as Trump, right?

Trump is four years younger, that's the thing.

They weren't drafting 23 year old, they were drafting 18 year olds.

Biden was born in 1942. By the time the draft started in earnest, he was already 23.

Trump was born 1946. He was the right age to get drafted, but got a doctor to lie about bone spurs.

 

[José]

INTERESTING COMPARISON BETWEEN THE PRESS COVERAGE OF
THE VIETNAM WAR AND THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT​

During the Vietnam War and the I-P conflict you had-have the same giant army of journalists, talking heads, "experts", politicians constantly bombarding the american people that victory is right around the corner in Vietnam and that the 2-state solution is possible.

The average american, time and again, as the years and decades go by, see the reality in Vietnam and Palestine consistently demolishing the lies spread by the american media, the politicians, the generals and the "experts".

The average Joe:

"For 30 years I have seen battle after battle in Vietnam and attack after attack in Israel-Palestine.

What I see in front of me are two peoples (the Vietnamese and Palestinians) who will never accept the partition of their homeland and this is the exact opposite of what the journalists and "experts" say everyday.

But who am I to disagree with all those american journalists, political comentators and politicians, not to mention US generals and "experts" on the history of Vietnam and Palestine, who spent their whole lives studying the art of war and those parts of the world respectively.

My personal opinion is that the defeat of NVA and the Vietcong and the 2-state solution for Palestine are pipe dreams, miserable failures with zero chance to succeed in the future but I will continue to defer to the knowledge of the experts who know much more than I do about these two subjects."

 

[Zincwarrior]

Um, Tet was 55 years ago.

 

[Seymour Flops]

You're citing John Wayne's half-ass propaganda movie as a source?

You cited nothing but your own backside whence you pulled out your “facts.”

South Vietnam wasn't invaded. Vietnam drove out the French. The French set up a quisling regime. No one supported it, and if there was an election, Ho Chi Mihn would have won 80% of the vote.

Once we left, the South Vietnamese dropped their weapons and gave up.

Source?

 

[Soupnazi630]

Sorry, 11 years US Army, reserve and active.

The problem was, of course, that after Tet, people knew the government was lying about Vietnam.



Except Biden's deferments came before the war started, as he was already too old to be drafted.

The government was not in fact lying

 

[Soupnazi630]

You're citing John Wayne's half-ass propaganda movie as a source?

South Vietnam wasn't invaded. Vietnam drove out the French. The French set up a quisling regime. No one supported it, and if there was an election, Ho Chi Mihn would have won 80% of the vote.

Once we left, the South Vietnamese dropped their weapons and gave up.

Yes they were invaded'

Your historic spin is an out right lie like the claim you served

 

[Soupnazi630]

Um, Tet was 55 years ago.

and still very relevant