Walgreen Michigan Pharmacist is Suing for Wrongful Termination - Does He Have a Case?

PoliticalChic

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Before firing, Hoven first tried dialing 911. But before he could complete the call, the first of the two robbers had vaulted over a counter and was standing five feet away from him. That's when the pharmacist went for his own gun and opened fire.
Pharmacist Fires Back at Gunmen, Fired By Walgreens Watch Video

The video appears to confirm that Hoven's actions were defensive, and were made only in response to the robbers' attack.

Peter Kosick of St. Joseph, Hoven's attorney, tells ABC News that, in his opinion, Walgreens should have commended his client for bravery. That, too, is the opinion of township police Lt. Delman Lange, who, after reviewing the surveillance video, told the local paper, "If it was me, I would have done the same thing."

Though Hoven was licensed by the state of Michigan to carry a gun, Walgreen discourages its pharmacists from packing pistols. A spokeswoman for the drug chain told ABC News in an email that while Walgreens would not be able to disclose its policies, they were written to protect the safety of customers and employees. "Store employees receive comprehensive training on our robbery procedures and how to react and respond," she wrote. Walgreens' approach is "endorsed by law enforcement, which strongly advises against confrontation of crime suspects. Compromise is safer."

Michigan Walgreens Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven Fired After Shooting at Robbers - ABC News

Lis Wiehl and Kimberly Guilfoyle, two FOX News analysts say he has a case. Although, I sympathize with the pharmacist, I just don't see him winning. Walgreens had specified what their policy was on guns. Does anyone have more insight into this?
 

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Before firing, Hoven first tried dialing 911. But before he could complete the call, the first of the two robbers had vaulted over a counter and was standing five feet away from him. That's when the pharmacist went for his own gun and opened fire.
Pharmacist Fires Back at Gunmen, Fired By Walgreens Watch Video

The video appears to confirm that Hoven's actions were defensive, and were made only in response to the robbers' attack.

Peter Kosick of St. Joseph, Hoven's attorney, tells ABC News that, in his opinion, Walgreens should have commended his client for bravery. That, too, is the opinion of township police Lt. Delman Lange, who, after reviewing the surveillance video, told the local paper, "If it was me, I would have done the same thing."

Though Hoven was licensed by the state of Michigan to carry a gun, Walgreen discourages its pharmacists from packing pistols. A spokeswoman for the drug chain told ABC News in an email that while Walgreens would not be able to disclose its policies, they were written to protect the safety of customers and employees. "Store employees receive comprehensive training on our robbery procedures and how to react and respond," she wrote. Walgreens' approach is "endorsed by law enforcement, which strongly advises against confrontation of crime suspects. Compromise is safer."

Michigan Walgreens Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven Fired After Shooting at Robbers - ABC News

Lis Wiehl and Kimberly Guilfoyle, two FOX News analysts say he has a case. Although, I sympathize with the pharmacist, I just don't see him winning. Walgreens had specified what their policy was on guns. Does anyone have more insight into this?
He may not have a case, but I always laugh at police organizations that say compromise is "safer." This coming from an organization whos members can bring weapons home with them for self defense, and conceal carry wherever they go, even in restrictive environments like NYC.

Also, tell these people that compromise is safer. I was in this wendy's 4 hours before the massacre.

Wendy's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

rightwinger

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Walgreens has a right to set it's own policies. If it doesn't want it's pharmacists engaging in shootouts with robbers they have a right do discharge those who do

Many stores have a policy of "if someone tries to rob us....let them" better to lose some money and some drugs than to have an innocent customer shot in a crossfire
 

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Of course he has a case.

Unfortunately it's not the "right" case.

What he should have done was sued for inadequate security at the Walgreens. There was ample reason for Walgreens to hire armed guards. They did not.
 
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Walgreens has a right to set it's own policies. If it doesn't want it's pharmacists engaging in shootouts with robbers they have a right do discharge those who do

Many stores have a policy of "if someone tries to rob us....let them" better to lose some money and some drugs than to have an innocent customer shot in a crossfire
I would assume that as a private business, Walgreen should be able to set the rules of employment...

...and so I would agree with you.

But:
1. He wasn't asked if he had a concealed carry permit at time of employment.
2. The thieves shot at him prior to his returning fire...no one was injured.
3. Both legal analysts have law degrees and courtroom experience as prosecutors...

So...why do they both believe he wins this case?
 
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Of course he has a case.

Unfortunately it's not the "right" case.

What he should have done was sued for inadequate security at the Walgreens. There was ample reason for Walgreens to hire armed guards. They did not.
After killed or wounded?
No one is arguing that he was not fired upon first.

You can be a witness:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibgDq5RnyAU]Walgreens Fires Pharmacist After Shooting At Robbers - YouTube[/ame]
 

Sallow

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Of course he has a case.

Unfortunately it's not the "right" case.

What he should have done was sued for inadequate security at the Walgreens. There was ample reason for Walgreens to hire armed guards. They did not.
After killed or wounded?
No one is arguing that he was not fired upon first.

You can be a witness:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibgDq5RnyAU]Walgreens Fires Pharmacist After Shooting At Robbers - YouTube[/ame]
He doesn't have a leg to stand on using his "right" to self defense. He has a right to defend himself. He has a right to carry a gun. Walgreen has a right to fire him if he carries his gun and uses it in Walgreens.

Simple as that.

Walgreen's sets it's policies for employee behavior. There's really no argument he can use to go down on this path.

Which is why it would be wise for him to argue that Walgreen's was negligent.
 
OP
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Before firing, Hoven first tried dialing 911. But before he could complete the call, the first of the two robbers had vaulted over a counter and was standing five feet away from him. That's when the pharmacist went for his own gun and opened fire.
Pharmacist Fires Back at Gunmen, Fired By Walgreens Watch Video

The video appears to confirm that Hoven's actions were defensive, and were made only in response to the robbers' attack.

Peter Kosick of St. Joseph, Hoven's attorney, tells ABC News that, in his opinion, Walgreens should have commended his client for bravery. That, too, is the opinion of township police Lt. Delman Lange, who, after reviewing the surveillance video, told the local paper, "If it was me, I would have done the same thing."

Though Hoven was licensed by the state of Michigan to carry a gun, Walgreen discourages its pharmacists from packing pistols. A spokeswoman for the drug chain told ABC News in an email that while Walgreens would not be able to disclose its policies, they were written to protect the safety of customers and employees. "Store employees receive comprehensive training on our robbery procedures and how to react and respond," she wrote. Walgreens' approach is "endorsed by law enforcement, which strongly advises against confrontation of crime suspects. Compromise is safer."

Michigan Walgreens Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven Fired After Shooting at Robbers - ABC News

Lis Wiehl and Kimberly Guilfoyle, two FOX News analysts say he has a case. Although, I sympathize with the pharmacist, I just don't see him winning. Walgreens had specified what their policy was on guns. Does anyone have more insight into this?
He may not have a case, but I always laugh at police organizations that say compromise is "safer." This coming from an organization whos members can bring weapons home with them for self defense, and conceal carry wherever they go, even in restrictive environments like NYC.

Also, tell these people that compromise is safer. I was in this wendy's 4 hours before the massacre.

Wendy's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Everything I've read tends to agree with you...

According to a 1997 study of National Crime Victimization Survey data, "robbery and assault victims who used a gun to resist were less likely to be attacked or to suffer an injury than those who used any other methods of self-protection or those who did not resist at all.” Footnotes and Sources - Concealed Guns - ProCon.org


...but...doesn't a private business have the rigth to set the rules of employment?
 

PLYMCO_PILGRIM

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Before firing, Hoven first tried dialing 911. But before he could complete the call, the first of the two robbers had vaulted over a counter and was standing five feet away from him. That's when the pharmacist went for his own gun and opened fire.
Pharmacist Fires Back at Gunmen, Fired By Walgreens Watch Video

The video appears to confirm that Hoven's actions were defensive, and were made only in response to the robbers' attack.

Peter Kosick of St. Joseph, Hoven's attorney, tells ABC News that, in his opinion, Walgreens should have commended his client for bravery. That, too, is the opinion of township police Lt. Delman Lange, who, after reviewing the surveillance video, told the local paper, "If it was me, I would have done the same thing."

Though Hoven was licensed by the state of Michigan to carry a gun, Walgreen discourages its pharmacists from packing pistols. A spokeswoman for the drug chain told ABC News in an email that while Walgreens would not be able to disclose its policies, they were written to protect the safety of customers and employees. "Store employees receive comprehensive training on our robbery procedures and how to react and respond," she wrote. Walgreens' approach is "endorsed by law enforcement, which strongly advises against confrontation of crime suspects. Compromise is safer."

Michigan Walgreens Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven Fired After Shooting at Robbers - ABC News

Lis Wiehl and Kimberly Guilfoyle, two FOX News analysts say he has a case. Although, I sympathize with the pharmacist, I just don't see him winning. Walgreens had specified what their policy was on guns. Does anyone have more insight into this?
He has no case unfotunately

I used to be a walgreens store manager before I changed careers and my cousin right now is a walgreens pharmacy manager (they have seperate managers for the store side and pharmacy side).

The company policy is that if someone tries to rob you that you, as an employee, give the robbers everything they want and provide zero resistance.

He wont win as that is part of your employment agreement.


I'm not saying I agree with that, I'm just saying it is what it is ;)
 
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Of course he has a case.

Unfortunately it's not the "right" case.

What he should have done was sued for inadequate security at the Walgreens. There was ample reason for Walgreens to hire armed guards. They did not.
After killed or wounded?
No one is arguing that he was not fired upon first.

You can be a witness:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibgDq5RnyAU]Walgreens Fires Pharmacist After Shooting At Robbers - YouTube[/ame]
He doesn't have a leg to stand on using his "right" to self defense. He has a right to defend himself. He has a right to carry a gun. Walgreen has a right to fire him if he carries his gun and uses it in Walgreens.

Simple as that.

Walgreen's sets it's policies for employee behavior. There's really no argument he can use to go down on this path.

Which is why it would be wise for him to argue that Walgreen's was negligent.
I may have to change your nick-name to the "Simple Puppy"....

...stress on the first part.


Didn't you read the thread? Two lawyers, both with prosecutorial experience claim that he wins the case...

..the reason for the OP is: 'why' are they so convinced?

(Pssst! Keep this under your hat, er..fur...but it seems to me, also, that he hasn't a case. It seems we're both wrong: you, used to being in that position....but it's a new one for moi!)
 
OP
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Before firing, Hoven first tried dialing 911. But before he could complete the call, the first of the two robbers had vaulted over a counter and was standing five feet away from him. That's when the pharmacist went for his own gun and opened fire.
Pharmacist Fires Back at Gunmen, Fired By Walgreens Watch Video

The video appears to confirm that Hoven's actions were defensive, and were made only in response to the robbers' attack.

Peter Kosick of St. Joseph, Hoven's attorney, tells ABC News that, in his opinion, Walgreens should have commended his client for bravery. That, too, is the opinion of township police Lt. Delman Lange, who, after reviewing the surveillance video, told the local paper, "If it was me, I would have done the same thing."

Though Hoven was licensed by the state of Michigan to carry a gun, Walgreen discourages its pharmacists from packing pistols. A spokeswoman for the drug chain told ABC News in an email that while Walgreens would not be able to disclose its policies, they were written to protect the safety of customers and employees. "Store employees receive comprehensive training on our robbery procedures and how to react and respond," she wrote. Walgreens' approach is "endorsed by law enforcement, which strongly advises against confrontation of crime suspects. Compromise is safer."

Michigan Walgreens Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven Fired After Shooting at Robbers - ABC News

Lis Wiehl and Kimberly Guilfoyle, two FOX News analysts say he has a case. Although, I sympathize with the pharmacist, I just don't see him winning. Walgreens had specified what their policy was on guns. Does anyone have more insight into this?
He has no case unfotunately

I used to be a walgreens store manager before I changed careers and my cousin right now is a walgreens pharmacy manager (they have seperate managers for the store side and pharmacy side).

The company policy is that if someone tries to rob you that you, as an employee, give the robbers everything they want and provide zero resistance.

He wont win as that is part of your employment agreement.


I'm not saying I agree with that, I'm just saying it is what it is ;)
I appreciate your experience in the matter...but it seems none of us are lawyers...and:
"Two lawyers, both with prosecutorial experience claim that he wins the case...

..the reason for the OP is: 'why' are they so convinced?"
 

del

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Before firing, Hoven first tried dialing 911. But before he could complete the call, the first of the two robbers had vaulted over a counter and was standing five feet away from him. That's when the pharmacist went for his own gun and opened fire.
Pharmacist Fires Back at Gunmen, Fired By Walgreens Watch Video

The video appears to confirm that Hoven's actions were defensive, and were made only in response to the robbers' attack.

Peter Kosick of St. Joseph, Hoven's attorney, tells ABC News that, in his opinion, Walgreens should have commended his client for bravery. That, too, is the opinion of township police Lt. Delman Lange, who, after reviewing the surveillance video, told the local paper, "If it was me, I would have done the same thing."

Though Hoven was licensed by the state of Michigan to carry a gun, Walgreen discourages its pharmacists from packing pistols. A spokeswoman for the drug chain told ABC News in an email that while Walgreens would not be able to disclose its policies, they were written to protect the safety of customers and employees. "Store employees receive comprehensive training on our robbery procedures and how to react and respond," she wrote. Walgreens' approach is "endorsed by law enforcement, which strongly advises against confrontation of crime suspects. Compromise is safer."

Michigan Walgreens Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven Fired After Shooting at Robbers - ABC News

Lis Wiehl and Kimberly Guilfoyle, two FOX News analysts say he has a case. Although, I sympathize with the pharmacist, I just don't see him winning. Walgreens had specified what their policy was on guns. Does anyone have more insight into this?
He has no case unfotunately

I used to be a walgreens store manager before I changed careers and my cousin right now is a walgreens pharmacy manager (they have seperate managers for the store side and pharmacy side).

The company policy is that if someone tries to rob you that you, as an employee, give the robbers everything they want and provide zero resistance.

He wont win as that is part of your employment agreement.


I'm not saying I agree with that, I'm just saying it is what it is ;)
I appreciate your experience in the matter...but it seems none of us are lawyers...and:
"Two lawyers, both with prosecutorial experience claim that he wins the case...

..the reason for the OP is: 'why' are they so convinced?"
because they're on tv to have opinions, no matter how wrong they are. he has zero chance of winning.

if they were such great attorneys, they'd be practicing law, not flapping their gums on fox news.
 

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After killed or wounded?
No one is arguing that he was not fired upon first.

You can be a witness:

Walgreens Fires Pharmacist After Shooting At Robbers - YouTube
He doesn't have a leg to stand on using his "right" to self defense. He has a right to defend himself. He has a right to carry a gun. Walgreen has a right to fire him if he carries his gun and uses it in Walgreens.

Simple as that.

Walgreen's sets it's policies for employee behavior. There's really no argument he can use to go down on this path.

Which is why it would be wise for him to argue that Walgreen's was negligent.
I may have to change your nick-name to the "Simple Puppy"....

...stress on the first part.


Didn't you read the thread? Two lawyers, both with prosecutorial experience claim that he wins the case...

..the reason for the OP is: 'why' are they so convinced?

(Pssst! Keep this under your hat, er..fur...but it seems to me, also, that he hasn't a case. It seems we're both wrong: you, used to being in that position....but it's a new one for moi!)
:lol:

I can claim that the Mets will win the world series all I want..but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen in the real world. Not this year..anyway.

:eusa_shhh:
 

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Before firing, Hoven first tried dialing 911. But before he could complete the call, the first of the two robbers had vaulted over a counter and was standing five feet away from him. That's when the pharmacist went for his own gun and opened fire.
Pharmacist Fires Back at Gunmen, Fired By Walgreens Watch Video

The video appears to confirm that Hoven's actions were defensive, and were made only in response to the robbers' attack.

Peter Kosick of St. Joseph, Hoven's attorney, tells ABC News that, in his opinion, Walgreens should have commended his client for bravery. That, too, is the opinion of township police Lt. Delman Lange, who, after reviewing the surveillance video, told the local paper, "If it was me, I would have done the same thing."

Though Hoven was licensed by the state of Michigan to carry a gun, Walgreen discourages its pharmacists from packing pistols. A spokeswoman for the drug chain told ABC News in an email that while Walgreens would not be able to disclose its policies, they were written to protect the safety of customers and employees. "Store employees receive comprehensive training on our robbery procedures and how to react and respond," she wrote. Walgreens' approach is "endorsed by law enforcement, which strongly advises against confrontation of crime suspects. Compromise is safer."

Michigan Walgreens Pharmacist Jeremy Hoven Fired After Shooting at Robbers - ABC News

Lis Wiehl and Kimberly Guilfoyle, two FOX News analysts say he has a case. Although, I sympathize with the pharmacist, I just don't see him winning. Walgreens had specified what their policy was on guns. Does anyone have more insight into this?
He has no case unfotunately

I used to be a walgreens store manager before I changed careers and my cousin right now is a walgreens pharmacy manager (they have seperate managers for the store side and pharmacy side).

The company policy is that if someone tries to rob you that you, as an employee, give the robbers everything they want and provide zero resistance.

He wont win as that is part of your employment agreement.


I'm not saying I agree with that, I'm just saying it is what it is ;)
I appreciate your experience in the matter...but it seems none of us are lawyers...and:
"Two lawyers, both with prosecutorial experience claim that he wins the case...

..the reason for the OP is: 'why' are they so convinced?"
They, like myself and assuming you too, are very passionate about all americans having a right to defend themselves and carry arms. So they obviously feel this guaranteed right will protect this individual from being fired.

However, the fact that he is an at-will employee working for a private company means the company's policies overrride that right.

P.C., do you have any links to any court cases about similar stuff? Maybe there is some precedent out there I am unaware of that would negate my opinion on the matter.
 

Dont Taz Me Bro

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The Second Amendment applies to the government, not a private entity, so Walgreen's is well within their rights to terminate his employment if he violated their alleged no gun policy. I don't think it's a good PR move on their part, but that's their decision to make. In the end, the pharmacist's employment is at will so I don't really see how he can sue them for wrongful termination, particularly if he did violate a company policy, but I honestly don't know why he'd want his job back anyway after being treated that way.

I don't know what kind of neighborhood this was in, but if it was in a high crime neighborhood I suppose he could try to file a lawsuit that Walgreen's had an obligation to provide appropriate security for the staff and failed to do so.
 

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That's when the pharmacist went for his own gun and opened fire.
I'd shitcan the guy for that.

He put everybody in the place in harms way.
 
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Walgreens has a right to set it's own policies. If it doesn't want it's pharmacists engaging in shootouts with robbers they have a right do discharge those who do

Many stores have a policy of "if someone tries to rob us....let them" better to lose some money and some drugs than to have an innocent customer shot in a crossfire
I would assume that as a private business, Walgreen should be able to set the rules of employment...

...and so I would agree with you.

But:
1. He wasn't asked if he had a concealed carry permit at time of employment.
2. The thieves shot at him prior to his returning fire...no one was injured.
3. Both legal analysts have law degrees and courtroom experience as prosecutors...

So...why do they both believe he wins this case?
Walgreens fights this with a jury, they loose. They will settle and the guy is not employed by Walgreens anymore. The last thing Walgreens needs is to have someone who violated company policy in such a manner gets away with it.

However, they have good reason for this policy. Some customer does get hurt, Walgreens would be liable.

Policies are there for a reason. They may not be the smartest policies, but they have been found to work over time.
 

rightwinger

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Walgreens has a right to set it's own policies. If it doesn't want it's pharmacists engaging in shootouts with robbers they have a right do discharge those who do

Many stores have a policy of "if someone tries to rob us....let them" better to lose some money and some drugs than to have an innocent customer shot in a crossfire
I would assume that as a private business, Walgreen should be able to set the rules of employment...

...and so I would agree with you.

But:
1. He wasn't asked if he had a concealed carry permit at time of employment.
2. The thieves shot at him prior to his returning fire...no one was injured.
3. Both legal analysts have law degrees and courtroom experience as prosecutors...

So...why do they both believe he wins this case?
You have a right to protect yourself. So he was not arrested

Walgreens has a right to expect employees to not get involved in shootouts with robbers. They also have a right to fire employees at will

Both legal analysts have law degrees, but I watch Judge Judy every day. So I still think I am right
 

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Since you sign a document that says you will abide by the company policy and failure to follow the policy can result in termination I would say he has no legal basis to file a wrongful termination suit. If a customer was wounded in the shootout then it would be them who would be suing. Just because you can hit a target on a shooting range does not mean you can hit something in the heat of the moment or when someone is shooting at you. Most likely innocent bystanders are going to get hit.

In this situation the man made a decision. Maybe because he had a gun he felt more powerful in the original confrontation that escalated it to a shootout. If he had complied according to policy maybe nothing would have happened. But having a gun may have influenced his attitude.
 

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