Wake up to Domestic Surveillance

[Book of Jeremiah]

If the FBI knows that my hair colorist is in contact with
ISIS -------and THEREFORE takes a look at me----it's ok with me

That's kind of a flippant cavalier attitude for someone who just admitted on a public forum that they had "little Nazi friends" in their past.

You also by the way have bomb making materials stored in your "compound"..

We are too stupid to survive I suppose. Or at least most of us are..

Flacaltenn, Rosie is Jewish. She doesn't have any little Nazi friends.

 

[irosie91]

If the FBI knows that my hair colorist is in contact with
ISIS -------and THEREFORE takes a look at me----it's ok with me

That's kind of a flippant cavalier attitude for someone who just admitted on a public forum that they had "little Nazi friends" in their past.

You also by the way have bomb making materials stored in your "compound"..

We are too stupid to survive I suppose. Or at least most of us are..

Flacaltenn, Rosie is Jewish. She doesn't have any little Nazi friends.

Jeremiah Flacaltenn is angry with me because I posted
"too much" about the development of "the caliphate" ---last summer. He said I am obsessed with a very trivial issue, THUS he baits me

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

If the FBI knows that my hair colorist is in contact with
ISIS -------and THEREFORE takes a look at me----it's ok with me

That's kind of a flippant cavalier attitude for someone who just admitted on a public forum that they had "little Nazi friends" in their past.

You also by the way have bomb making materials stored in your "compound"..

We are too stupid to survive I suppose. Or at least most of us are..

Flacaltenn, Rosie is Jewish. She doesn't have any little Nazi friends.

Jeremiah Flacaltenn is angry with me because I posted
"too much" about the development of "the caliphate" ---last summer. He said I am obsessed with a very trivial issue, THUS he baits me

He missed you. He's just excited to be back, Rosie.

 

[irosie91]

If the FBI knows that my hair colorist is in contact with
ISIS -------and THEREFORE takes a look at me----it's ok with me

That's kind of a flippant cavalier attitude for someone who just admitted on a public forum that they had "little Nazi friends" in their past.

You also by the way have bomb making materials stored in your "compound"..

We are too stupid to survive I suppose. Or at least most of us are..

Flacaltenn, Rosie is Jewish. She doesn't have any little Nazi friends.

Jeremiah Flacaltenn is angry with me because I posted
"too much" about the development of "the caliphate" ---last summer. He said I am obsessed with a very trivial issue, THUS he baits me

He missed you. He's just excited to be back, Rosie.

yes----I know----but I am playing ----COOL

 

[flacaltenn]

The level of policy discussion about NSA and other surveillance programs is WOEFULLY lacking. But that is the case for most political discussions in this country today. Americans are NOT being served by the press or their elected representatives in that
the vast majority of Americans have no idea what the terms "bulk data collection", metadata, or "data mining" imply. I'm gonna give you a couple things to contemplate and HOPE that you then become invested in understanding and fixing this problem.

1) Data mining is the training of machines to recognize anomalous transactions between people or resources (when applied to monitoring terrorist activities). You cannot train a machine to recognize one anomalous transaction out of millions unless you've trained the machine to REJECT common normal transactions. To do that -- you NEED millions/billions of innocent transaction to "train on". Thus the need to do "bulk" collection. The folks (congresscritters, FISA judges) supposedly monitoring this activity probably have no real appreciation of this need. And to keep from the alarming the public euphemistically refer to metadata or anonymous data records. Anything with my phone number or bank information attached to it is NOT anonymous.

2) When we are reassured that only "foreign" inbound or outbound data is a target for collection, they are depending on the laziness and general stupidity of the American public. Since NSA is allowed to forced ISPs thru "court order" to gain access to colllections, this implies that surveillance taps are being allowed at many of the carrier sites and indeed may include a room or building that is staffed by govt (NSA) folk much like in the past when major US telcos were in bed with NSA for now revealed collection on foreign soil. IN FACT, the whole distinction of DOMESTIC collection is a canard. You could take all the ephemeral metadata the Google builds over the day and flash it over to a mirror site in the UK within a few hours every night. At that point, all of the data are no longer subject to FISA restrictions or "domestic" collection laws. And this is one of the revelations that Snowden and other Civil Libertarians have been trying to get folks to realize. In fact, when Google or Verizon are tapped, they can be "reimbursed" for access to their servers or physical installations on their premises.

3) I have no beef with NSA. They are a rare bastion of competence in a sea of govt bureaucracy. When their mission was to apply methods and practices to surveil our overseas threats, they could apply AWESOME measures. The American people do not want this extremely competent agency building massive new collection capabilities and analysis for domestic surveillance. Like that massive new building in Utah. That capability doesn't belong in political hands..

Support MEANINGFUL changes to the Patriot Act in Congress NOW. And THINK about what you are not being told and you are not hearing in public debate.

It's wonderful to see you on USMB, Flacaltenn. About the machines that trace - there is a cryptic writing called Boolean? Am I naming that right? I have a friend who swears by it because he likes his privacy. He told me it is the mispelling of words purposely done that throws them off. I believe he knew someone who knew Snowden when he worked for Booz - Allen. I don't know if I spelled that company name correctly but it is a firm that the govt. comes to for high tech surveillance, etc. I'm told you have to be highly intelligent to work there and apparently Snowden was an exceptionally brilliant young man. (it seems that was kept out of the news). Again, it is nice to see you!

nice to talk with you again jeremiah... Boolean algebra is a tool for encryption. So you probably remember that correctly. The type of data mining being done here is more in the realm of artificial intelligience and machine learning. May be unfortunate that our most advanced use of those things is not to cure cancer or reduce the cost of healthcare,, but to give the government the ability to track our every move or utterance.

 

[Treeshepherd]

I'm sure you'll make all that amazingly clear after the no-knock raid where they confiscate all your electronics, and personal effects. 12 hours of interrogation in an undisclosed location should straighten all that out. You've got nothing to hide right???

To me, it's not primarily about catching the bad guys, though that's an aspect of domestic surveillance. One Nation Under Surveillance is primarily about building profiles of individuals, communities, states and the nation as a whole in order to scientifically market bullshit policies, celebrity politicians and 'humanitarian' wars.

The science of neuromarketing is about measuring brain activity in response to propaganda. Data mining is where you get the source data. Now, campaign slogans are engineered in a laboratory, for all intents and purposes. Used together, resistance is futile, the USA will be assimilated. Remember, in a democracy, you only have to convince a majority.

Of course, if the administration doesn't like a particular journalist, they can digitally go back in time and find something to bust them on. They can certainly find a journalist's sources because everyone communicates electronically. Pretty soon, nobody is talking. If Snowden hadn't spilled, NSA domestic spying would still be chalked up to be a conspiracy theory. But for that he can never return to the US, so we're really entering a time of government control over speech.

We're building the Panopticon.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The level of policy discussion about NSA and other surveillance programs is WOEFULLY lacking. But that is the case for most political discussions in this country today. Americans are NOT being served by the press or their elected representatives in that
the vast majority of Americans have no idea what the terms "bulk data collection", metadata, or "data mining" imply. I'm gonna give you a couple things to contemplate and HOPE that you then become invested in understanding and fixing this problem.

1) Data mining is the training of machines to recognize anomalous transactions between people or resources (when applied to monitoring terrorist activities). You cannot train a machine to recognize one anomalous transaction out of millions unless you've trained the machine to REJECT common normal transactions. To do that -- you NEED millions/billions of innocent transaction to "train on". Thus the need to do "bulk" collection. The folks (congresscritters, FISA judges) supposedly monitoring this activity probably have no real appreciation of this need. And to keep from the alarming the public euphemistically refer to metadata or anonymous data records. Anything with my phone number or bank information attached to it is NOT anonymous.

2) When we are reassured that only "foreign" inbound or outbound data is a target for collection, they are depending on the laziness and general stupidity of the American public. Since NSA is allowed to forced ISPs thru "court order" to gain access to colllections, this implies that surveillance taps are being allowed at many of the carrier sites and indeed may include a room or building that is staffed by govt (NSA) folk much like in the past when major US telcos were in bed with NSA for now revealed collection on foreign soil. IN FACT, the whole distinction of DOMESTIC collection is a canard. You could take all the ephemeral metadata the Google builds over the day and flash it over to a mirror site in the UK within a few hours every night. At that point, all of the data are no longer subject to FISA restrictions or "domestic" collection laws. And this is one of the revelations that Snowden and other Civil Libertarians have been trying to get folks to realize. In fact, when Google or Verizon are tapped, they can be "reimbursed" for access to their servers or physical installations on their premises.

3) I have no beef with NSA. They are a rare bastion of competence in a sea of govt bureaucracy. When their mission was to apply methods and practices to surveil our overseas threats, they could apply AWESOME measures. The American people do not want this extremely competent agency building massive new collection capabilities and analysis for domestic surveillance. Like that massive new building in Utah. That capability doesn't belong in political hands..

Support MEANINGFUL changes to the Patriot Act in Congress NOW. And THINK about what you are not being told and you are not hearing in public debate.

GIven how readily Americans volunteer intimate details of their private lives on FB, Youtube, and other networking sites, I don't think the government spying on them phases them as much as doing so would have a generation ago.

Plus, if you're not doing anything wrong anyway...

 

[Treeshepherd]

GIven how readily Americans volunteer intimate details of their private lives on FB, Youtube, and other networking sites, I don't think the government spying on them phases them as much as doing so would have a generation ago.

I think that's true. If you were to ask someone 20 years ago if they would willingly pay for a device which tracks their every movement and uploads that info to a database owned by a company which shares the data with government, they would have said, "Hell, no". Today, they all have iPhones or Androids.

If you ask someone today if they'd be willing to have that device installed on their brains, most would say no. In the future, people will be lining up around the block if they haven't already pre-ordered the latest iBrain.

 

[flacaltenn]

The level of policy discussion about NSA and other surveillance programs is WOEFULLY lacking. But that is the case for most political discussions in this country today. Americans are NOT being served by the press or their elected representatives in that
the vast majority of Americans have no idea what the terms "bulk data collection", metadata, or "data mining" imply. I'm gonna give you a couple things to contemplate and HOPE that you then become invested in understanding and fixing this problem.

1) Data mining is the training of machines to recognize anomalous transactions between people or resources (when applied to monitoring terrorist activities). You cannot train a machine to recognize one anomalous transaction out of millions unless you've trained the machine to REJECT common normal transactions. To do that -- you NEED millions/billions of innocent transaction to "train on". Thus the need to do "bulk" collection. The folks (congresscritters, FISA judges) supposedly monitoring this activity probably have no real appreciation of this need. And to keep from the alarming the public euphemistically refer to metadata or anonymous data records. Anything with my phone number or bank information attached to it is NOT anonymous.

2) When we are reassured that only "foreign" inbound or outbound data is a target for collection, they are depending on the laziness and general stupidity of the American public. Since NSA is allowed to forced ISPs thru "court order" to gain access to colllections, this implies that surveillance taps are being allowed at many of the carrier sites and indeed may include a room or building that is staffed by govt (NSA) folk much like in the past when major US telcos were in bed with NSA for now revealed collection on foreign soil. IN FACT, the whole distinction of DOMESTIC collection is a canard. You could take all the ephemeral metadata the Google builds over the day and flash it over to a mirror site in the UK within a few hours every night. At that point, all of the data are no longer subject to FISA restrictions or "domestic" collection laws. And this is one of the revelations that Snowden and other Civil Libertarians have been trying to get folks to realize. In fact, when Google or Verizon are tapped, they can be "reimbursed" for access to their servers or physical installations on their premises.

3) I have no beef with NSA. They are a rare bastion of competence in a sea of govt bureaucracy. When their mission was to apply methods and practices to surveil our overseas threats, they could apply AWESOME measures. The American people do not want this extremely competent agency building massive new collection capabilities and analysis for domestic surveillance. Like that massive new building in Utah. That capability doesn't belong in political hands..

Support MEANINGFUL changes to the Patriot Act in Congress NOW. And THINK about what you are not being told and you are not hearing in public debate.

GIven how readily Americans volunteer intimate details of their private lives on FB, Youtube, and other networking sites, I don't think the government spying on them phases them as much as doing so would have a generation ago.

Plus, if you're not doing anything wrong anyway...

Before I started seeing the blatant in your face abuse of government agencies that has expanded over the past couple decades, I might agree with you. As kids we would innocently that "It's a free country" I'll do that if i please. But when the IRS is targeting political speech and referring cases to the BATF or FBI, I'm not so sure that being "innocent" is an adequate protection. Just speaking out about this worries me as I have some past history as a contractor to many government 3 letter agencies. You can see that that statement alone would instantly VOID MY innocence and potentially place me in jeopardy. There are THOUSANDS of stories of folks caught up in asset confiscation, botched raids, and mistaken charges to make REASONABLE folk worry about surveillance by machines on this awesome scale.

2nd issue is the COLLUSION that has and will occur when PRIVATE CORPORATIONS are coerced and rewarded for cooperation without public record. Verizon collecting my whereabouts is not a threat. Verizon providing access to their network under terms not publically disclosed to the NSA is a threat. Especially if money is used to reimburse them for the help....

BTW -- If you have a garage -- you have bomb making materials in that garage. If you deposit a check for over $10,000 -- you are a blip on the radar. If you send a risque selfie, your govt might actually have it.

As TreeGuy says --- none of this is actually proportional to the actual terrorist threat used to justify this MASSIVE effort. It's the wet dream of the big govt types to MAKE those connections and use them to advance political agendas of all types.

 

[irosie91]

oh gee I am ok no selfies ---no big time checks------just comments DA CALIPHATE IS A BIG PROBLEM

 

[flacaltenn]

Lemme go out a limb here. Knowing what I know about how effective this magnitude of surveillance was 20 yrs ago in monitoring our more concrete threats, I would think that massive new Utah collection facility would best be used if it was reassigned to monitor the FEDERAL govt operations and provide queries to the press and the public about what the hell OUR government is doing and how they are doing it and an index of the content of their social media.

Maybe we knew the grocery lists for the Kremlin and where it was coming from. Do any of you really believe that YOUR government should know that much about you?

Even if it's only about your vodka and caviar preferences? That ought to be enough to test the "i'm innocent" theory..

 

[irosie91]

Lemme go out a limb here. Knowing what I know about how effective this magnitude of surveillance was 20 yrs ago in monitoring our more concrete threats, I would think that massive new Utah collection facility would best be used if it was reassigned to monitor the FEDERAL govt operations and provide queries to the press and the public about what the hell OUR government is doing and how they are doing it and an index of the content of their social media.

Maybe we knew the grocery lists for the Kremlin and where it was coming from. Do any of you really believe that YOUR government should know that much about you?

Even if it's only about your vodka and caviar preferences? That ought to be enough to test the "i'm innocent" theory..

for my part-----the FBI can know my fave caviar

 

[Treeshepherd]

Lemme go out a limb here. Knowing what I know about how effective this magnitude of surveillance was 20 yrs ago in monitoring our more concrete threats, I would think that massive new Utah collection facility would best be used if it was reassigned to monitor the FEDERAL govt operations and provide queries to the press and the public about what the hell OUR government is doing and how they are doing it and an index of the content of their social media.

Maybe we knew the grocery lists for the Kremlin and where it was coming from. Do any of you really believe that YOUR government should know that much about you?

Even if it's only about your vodka and caviar preferences? That ought to be enough to test the "i'm innocent" theory..

Interesting that you mention vodka. I went to buy a beer at a gas station with cash and they wanted to swipe my driver's license and make me stand in front of a camera to take my mugshot. I said no thanks and went somewhere else.

But, let's say the mother computer at the Utah data center knows that I bought a certain amount of alcohol, and it knows from the ALPR system when and where I drove my vehicle, and it knows that I have a kid and there's no record of me buying any healthy vegetables. It red tags me and tells child protective services to check me out.

Some people would be in favor of that, because they value public safety over privacy.

Herein lies the rub, though. When we get to a point where nobody has any secrets, and there's no way to get away with any devious behavior, we cease to have need of a conscience. We cease to have any need of morality and ethics. We simply behave in accordance with a punishment and reward system. We cease to be human.

The process of becoming a fully developed human involves making mistakes, and learning from failures.

 

[flacaltenn]

Excellent post. No need for a conscience AND no need to excersize any judgement muscles since the law and social correctness will be your guide. When I go out to Cali now, there are so many signs posted to quote the law for 2hat USED to be obvious shit. Like staying on the walkways or warning you about the potentially dangerous chemicals in every public buiilding.

Chris Rock recently announced he wont take college dates anymore because he is so far out of compliance with the speech and microagression codes. Major news journals have been cowed into removing the term illegal from their content about immigration. THIS is part of the calculus WHY the American public is sleeping through this assault on Civil Liberties. The "I am not doing anything wrong" crowd is perfect pickings for the folks who want to prescribe "wrong" .

Those 20 or so Tea Party affiliates who were taunted by the IRS were forced to disclose what they have been reading, where theyve worshpped and the content of every public statement. Along with questions about firearms, home schooling and other prying questions. The majority of elected reps probably dont have an issue with that kind of intrusion. And too many Americans dont realize they are VOLUNTEERING to be pumped for those same personal details without their knowledge --- when they say they dont care about the misuse of the patriot act.

 

[bendog]

I really don't thing the govt (or private actors) should have the ability to use meta-data to trace every telephone number or website I, or any other person, accesses .... unless there's a reason the govt can identify why it needs the meta-data.

I sorta like the Mike Lee/A. King approach of mandating the phone companies keep meta-data for .... say 6 mos .... and have a way the govt can get a sort of search warrant. So long as the phone companies and private actors can't share the meta-data.

 

[Statistikhengst]

The level of policy discussion about NSA and other surveillance programs is WOEFULLY lacking. But that is the case for most political discussions in this country today. Americans are NOT being served by the press or their elected representatives in that
the vast majority of Americans have no idea what the terms "bulk data collection", metadata, or "data mining" imply. I'm gonna give you a couple things to contemplate and HOPE that you then become invested in understanding and fixing this problem.

1) Data mining is the training of machines to recognize anomalous transactions between people or resources (when applied to monitoring terrorist activities). You cannot train a machine to recognize one anomalous transaction out of millions unless you've trained the machine to REJECT common normal transactions. To do that -- you NEED millions/billions of innocent transaction to "train on". Thus the need to do "bulk" collection. The folks (congresscritters, FISA judges) supposedly monitoring this activity probably have no real appreciation of this need. And to keep from the alarming the public euphemistically refer to metadata or anonymous data records. Anything with my phone number or bank information attached to it is NOT anonymous.

2) When we are reassured that only "foreign" inbound or outbound data is a target for collection, they are depending on the laziness and general stupidity of the American public. Since NSA is allowed to forced ISPs thru "court order" to gain access to colllections, this implies that surveillance taps are being allowed at many of the carrier sites and indeed may include a room or building that is staffed by govt (NSA) folk much like in the past when major US telcos were in bed with NSA for now revealed collection on foreign soil. IN FACT, the whole distinction of DOMESTIC collection is a canard. You could take all the ephemeral metadata the Google builds over the day and flash it over to a mirror site in the UK within a few hours every night. At that point, all of the data are no longer subject to FISA restrictions or "domestic" collection laws. And this is one of the revelations that Snowden and other Civil Libertarians have been trying to get folks to realize. In fact, when Google or Verizon are tapped, they can be "reimbursed" for access to their servers or physical installations on their premises.

3) I have no beef with NSA. They are a rare bastion of competence in a sea of govt bureaucracy. When their mission was to apply methods and practices to surveil our overseas threats, they could apply AWESOME measures. The American people do not want this extremely competent agency building massive new collection capabilities and analysis for domestic surveillance. Like that massive new building in Utah. That capability doesn't belong in political hands..

Support MEANINGFUL changes to the Patriot Act in Congress NOW. And THINK about what you are not being told and you are not hearing in public debate.

It's wonderful to see you on USMB, Flacaltenn. About the machines that trace - there is a cryptic writing called Boolean? Am I naming that right? I have a friend who swears by it because he likes his privacy. He told me it is the mispelling of words purposely done that throws them off. I believe he knew someone who knew Snowden when he worked for Booz - Allen. I don't know if I spelled that company name correctly but it is a firm that the govt. comes to for high tech surveillance, etc. I'm told you have to be highly intelligent to work there and apparently Snowden was an exceptionally brilliant young man. (it seems that was kept out of the news). Again, it is nice to see you!

nice to talk with you again jeremiah... Boolean algebra is a tool for encryption. So you probably remember that correctly. The type of data mining being done here is more in the realm of artificial intelligience and machine learning. May be unfortunate that our most advanced use of those things is not to cure cancer or reduce the cost of healthcare,, but to give the government the ability to track our every move or utterance.

Just think of the song "Every step you take"...

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The level of policy discussion about NSA and other surveillance programs is WOEFULLY lacking. But that is the case for most political discussions in this country today. Americans are NOT being served by the press or their elected representatives in that
the vast majority of Americans have no idea what the terms "bulk data collection", metadata, or "data mining" imply. I'm gonna give you a couple things to contemplate and HOPE that you then become invested in understanding and fixing this problem.

1) Data mining is the training of machines to recognize anomalous transactions between people or resources (when applied to monitoring terrorist activities). You cannot train a machine to recognize one anomalous transaction out of millions unless you've trained the machine to REJECT common normal transactions. To do that -- you NEED millions/billions of innocent transaction to "train on". Thus the need to do "bulk" collection. The folks (congresscritters, FISA judges) supposedly monitoring this activity probably have no real appreciation of this need. And to keep from the alarming the public euphemistically refer to metadata or anonymous data records. Anything with my phone number or bank information attached to it is NOT anonymous.

2) When we are reassured that only "foreign" inbound or outbound data is a target for collection, they are depending on the laziness and general stupidity of the American public. Since NSA is allowed to forced ISPs thru "court order" to gain access to colllections, this implies that surveillance taps are being allowed at many of the carrier sites and indeed may include a room or building that is staffed by govt (NSA) folk much like in the past when major US telcos were in bed with NSA for now revealed collection on foreign soil. IN FACT, the whole distinction of DOMESTIC collection is a canard. You could take all the ephemeral metadata the Google builds over the day and flash it over to a mirror site in the UK within a few hours every night. At that point, all of the data are no longer subject to FISA restrictions or "domestic" collection laws. And this is one of the revelations that Snowden and other Civil Libertarians have been trying to get folks to realize. In fact, when Google or Verizon are tapped, they can be "reimbursed" for access to their servers or physical installations on their premises.

3) I have no beef with NSA. They are a rare bastion of competence in a sea of govt bureaucracy. When their mission was to apply methods and practices to surveil our overseas threats, they could apply AWESOME measures. The American people do not want this extremely competent agency building massive new collection capabilities and analysis for domestic surveillance. Like that massive new building in Utah. That capability doesn't belong in political hands..

Support MEANINGFUL changes to the Patriot Act in Congress NOW. And THINK about what you are not being told and you are not hearing in public debate.

It's wonderful to see you on USMB, Flacaltenn. About the machines that trace - there is a cryptic writing called Boolean? Am I naming that right? I have a friend who swears by it because he likes his privacy. He told me it is the mispelling of words purposely done that throws them off. I believe he knew someone who knew Snowden when he worked for Booz - Allen. I don't know if I spelled that company name correctly but it is a firm that the govt. comes to for high tech surveillance, etc. I'm told you have to be highly intelligent to work there and apparently Snowden was an exceptionally brilliant young man. (it seems that was kept out of the news). Again, it is nice to see you!

nice to talk with you again jeremiah... Boolean algebra is a tool for encryption. So you probably remember that correctly. The type of data mining being done here is more in the realm of artificial intelligience and machine learning. May be unfortunate that our most advanced use of those things is not to cure cancer or reduce the cost of healthcare,, but to give the government the ability to track our every move or utterance.

Just think of the song "Every step you take"...

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

very funny, McGhee.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The level of policy discussion about NSA and other surveillance programs is WOEFULLY lacking. But that is the case for most political discussions in this country today. Americans are NOT being served by the press or their elected representatives in that
the vast majority of Americans have no idea what the terms "bulk data collection", metadata, or "data mining" imply. I'm gonna give you a couple things to contemplate and HOPE that you then become invested in understanding and fixing this problem.

1) Data mining is the training of machines to recognize anomalous transactions between people or resources (when applied to monitoring terrorist activities). You cannot train a machine to recognize one anomalous transaction out of millions unless you've trained the machine to REJECT common normal transactions. To do that -- you NEED millions/billions of innocent transaction to "train on". Thus the need to do "bulk" collection. The folks (congresscritters, FISA judges) supposedly monitoring this activity probably have no real appreciation of this need. And to keep from the alarming the public euphemistically refer to metadata or anonymous data records. Anything with my phone number or bank information attached to it is NOT anonymous.

2) When we are reassured that only "foreign" inbound or outbound data is a target for collection, they are depending on the laziness and general stupidity of the American public. Since NSA is allowed to forced ISPs thru "court order" to gain access to colllections, this implies that surveillance taps are being allowed at many of the carrier sites and indeed may include a room or building that is staffed by govt (NSA) folk much like in the past when major US telcos were in bed with NSA for now revealed collection on foreign soil. IN FACT, the whole distinction of DOMESTIC collection is a canard. You could take all the ephemeral metadata the Google builds over the day and flash it over to a mirror site in the UK within a few hours every night. At that point, all of the data are no longer subject to FISA restrictions or "domestic" collection laws. And this is one of the revelations that Snowden and other Civil Libertarians have been trying to get folks to realize. In fact, when Google or Verizon are tapped, they can be "reimbursed" for access to their servers or physical installations on their premises.

3) I have no beef with NSA. They are a rare bastion of competence in a sea of govt bureaucracy. When their mission was to apply methods and practices to surveil our overseas threats, they could apply AWESOME measures. The American people do not want this extremely competent agency building massive new collection capabilities and analysis for domestic surveillance. Like that massive new building in Utah. That capability doesn't belong in political hands..

Support MEANINGFUL changes to the Patriot Act in Congress NOW. And THINK about what you are not being told and you are not hearing in public debate.

It's wonderful to see you on USMB, Flacaltenn. About the machines that trace - there is a cryptic writing called Boolean? Am I naming that right? I have a friend who swears by it because he likes his privacy. He told me it is the mispelling of words purposely done that throws them off. I believe he knew someone who knew Snowden when he worked for Booz - Allen. I don't know if I spelled that company name correctly but it is a firm that the govt. comes to for high tech surveillance, etc. I'm told you have to be highly intelligent to work there and apparently Snowden was an exceptionally brilliant young man. (it seems that was kept out of the news). Again, it is nice to see you!

nice to talk with you again jeremiah... Boolean algebra is a tool for encryption. So you probably remember that correctly. The type of data mining being done here is more in the realm of artificial intelligience and machine learning. May be unfortunate that our most advanced use of those things is not to cure cancer or reduce the cost of healthcare,, but to give the government the ability to track our every move or utterance.

It is always good to see you, Flacaltenn, and to read your threads! They are very interesting and this one is no exception! Thank you for the definition on Boolean - my friend is exceptionally brilliant - makes others wonder why he talks to me! I actually had a cousin on the same email who told me on the phone- these people on your email are highly intelligent! They sound like geniuses, I can't understand what they are talking about. What are they doing with you? She has a PHd in education but said she couldn't keep up with them. I thought that was funny. lol.

 

[prison/con.net]

wtf are you going to do about it if big brother wants to spy on you? One, you won't know about it, and two, there's nothing that you can do, cause you're too chicken to do the only thing that has a chance of stopping them. and that is don't pay taxes to them.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The level of policy discussion about NSA and other surveillance programs is WOEFULLY lacking. But that is the case for most political discussions in this country today. Americans are NOT being served by the press or their elected representatives in that
the vast majority of Americans have no idea what the terms "bulk data collection", metadata, or "data mining" imply. I'm gonna give you a couple things to contemplate and HOPE that you then become invested in understanding and fixing this problem.

1) Data mining is the training of machines to recognize anomalous transactions between people or resources (when applied to monitoring terrorist activities). You cannot train a machine to recognize one anomalous transaction out of millions unless you've trained the machine to REJECT common normal transactions. To do that -- you NEED millions/billions of innocent transaction to "train on". Thus the need to do "bulk" collection. The folks (congresscritters, FISA judges) supposedly monitoring this activity probably have no real appreciation of this need. And to keep from the alarming the public euphemistically refer to metadata or anonymous data records. Anything with my phone number or bank information attached to it is NOT anonymous.

2) When we are reassured that only "foreign" inbound or outbound data is a target for collection, they are depending on the laziness and general stupidity of the American public. Since NSA is allowed to forced ISPs thru "court order" to gain access to colllections, this implies that surveillance taps are being allowed at many of the carrier sites and indeed may include a room or building that is staffed by govt (NSA) folk much like in the past when major US telcos were in bed with NSA for now revealed collection on foreign soil. IN FACT, the whole distinction of DOMESTIC collection is a canard. You could take all the ephemeral metadata the Google builds over the day and flash it over to a mirror site in the UK within a few hours every night. At that point, all of the data are no longer subject to FISA restrictions or "domestic" collection laws. And this is one of the revelations that Snowden and other Civil Libertarians have been trying to get folks to realize. In fact, when Google or Verizon are tapped, they can be "reimbursed" for access to their servers or physical installations on their premises.

3) I have no beef with NSA. They are a rare bastion of competence in a sea of govt bureaucracy. When their mission was to apply methods and practices to surveil our overseas threats, they could apply AWESOME measures. The American people do not want this extremely competent agency building massive new collection capabilities and analysis for domestic surveillance. Like that massive new building in Utah. That capability doesn't belong in political hands..

Support MEANINGFUL changes to the Patriot Act in Congress NOW. And THINK about what you are not being told and you are not hearing in public debate.

What is it you're doing when not here that you don't want the government to know about it?