Wages based on Production/Results

[Bonzi]

Top athletes get top dollar. In most cases the are the most valuable people on the team, and, therefore get the most pay.

Why doesn't it work this way in the business world? What does it often happen that those that do the most work, that drive the business and results, often get the LEAST pay?

Not true in all industries, but most companies I have worked for the management and upper tier spend most of their time socializing, eating and in meetings where nothing really gets accomplished......

 

[jon_berzerk]

it often does

 

[Pop23]

Top athletes get top dollar. In most cases the are the most valuable people on the team, and, therefore get the most pay.

Why doesn't it work this way in the business world? What does it often happen that those that do the most work, that drive the business and results, often get the LEAST pay?

Not true in all industries, but most companies I have worked for the management and upper tier spend most of their time socializing, eating and in meetings where nothing really gets accomplished......

That is interesting. It's all about the negotiations I suspect.

As it is with athletes, they have a huge amount of leverage to go along with talent. Plus the agent helps a lot too

 

[Bonzi]

I wonder how much of it is who you know and networking? I would suspect a large amount.

I wish I had the energy and motivation to run a business where my people got paid by effort AND results.
Sales is about the closest thing to getting paid based on performance. (other than being an entrepreneur - and even then, they often hire people to do all the work, but they had to do the work up front at least....)

 

[Sonny Clark]

Top athletes get top dollar. In most cases the are the most valuable people on the team, and, therefore get the most pay.

Why doesn't it work this way in the business world? What does it often happen that those that do the most work, that drive the business and results, often get the LEAST pay?

Not true in all industries, but most companies I have worked for the management and upper tier spend most of their time socializing, eating and in meetings where nothing really gets accomplished......

Labor is a commodity. Wages are based on the health and the stability of the overall economy. In a strong economy, employers pay top wages to attract the best employees. But, in sour economic times, or when unemployment is relatively high, employers have their pick of the brightest and most skilled employees. This drives wages down due to the vast number of qualified employees unemployed. It's supply and demand. And, many other factors come into the picture.

Due to our increasing supply of foreign made goods, many employers are having a hard time competing with cheap foreign made goods. So, in order to compete with cheap foreign goods, employers can't pay top wages and remain competitive and keep their doors open. Our unfair, unjust, and one-sided foreign trade agreements and policies have destroyed wages, as well as industries. Over the past 50 plus years, we've lost all or part of the following industries to cheap foreign made goods. Textiles, steel, electronics, tools, toys, appliances, automotive parts, farm equipment, and housewares. We've closed many plants and factories that once provided living wage jobs that covered all education and skill levels.

We can not compete with cheap foreign made goods, and still pay living wages to employees. Basically, we've sacrificed our economic well-being in favor of strengthening foreign economies. America no longer produces what America uses and consumes. The results are lower wages, less company paid benefits, and a lower standard of living. In addition, we offshore out-source labor, import cheap labor, and have millions of illegals living and working in this country. Also, innovation, technology, and automation has replaced workers.

So, employers have the advantage over employees due to the shrinking jobs market. The present trend is low wage, part-time, and temporary employment. The jobs that paid $50,000 a year back before 2008, are not paying $35,000 a year. College grads are living at home with parents, and some are flipping burgers for spending money. Employers are producing more with fewer employees.

I might add that unions have greatly been responsible for jobs leaving this country. High union wages and benefits opened the doors for cheap foreign made goods to flood our markets. There was a time when only union workers could afford union made goods.

Many skills that were once handed down from generation to generation, are now lost due to so many plants and factories closing. We once had many industrial mechanics and electricians, many skilled machinists, and other skilled workers. Now, we have a small percentage of those with industrial skills. The "Global Economy" has taken its toll on the American worker. Basically, the term "Global Economy" means equalization to the lowest level, and we're rapidly approaching that equalization. We've been sold out by the very ones that we entrusted with our social and economic well-being.

 

[Bonzi]

Still doesn't explain why people get paid top dollar to be assholes. (figured I'd simplify)

 

[TNHarley]

The people that make a lot have a lot of responsibilities.
If the thing folds, its on them.
Low wage people don't.

 

[martybegan]

The people that make a lot have a lot of responsibilities.
If the thing folds, its on them.
Low wage people don't.

A low wage worker can leave work and not have to worry about anything until they show up the next morning. a manager has to be concerned 24/7, even if they aren't working 24/7.

There is also the concept that most lower wage jobs can be taught to anyone, managing and making decisions on the other hand, appears to be a more limited talent.

Then you have some jobs that require specific training/certification. I make $55 an hour because my job requires an Engineering Degree, a PE license, and at least 15 years of experience.

 

[Bonzi]

The people that make a lot have a lot of responsibilities.
If the thing folds, its on them.
Low wage people don't.

Low wage people are more likely to get fired, however, if things fall apart.
The are the fall guy. Top dogs rarely get fired because they are usually friends and/or were hired by another top dog.......

I'll take the heat and keep the job.

 

[TNHarley]

The people that make a lot have a lot of responsibilities.
If the thing folds, its on them.
Low wage people don't.

Low wage people are more likely to get fired, however, if things fall apart.
The are the fall guy. Top dogs rarely get fired because they are usually friends and/or were hired by another top dog.......

I'll take the heat and keep the job.

In that case, that should be more motivation to be at the toplol

 

[WinterBorn]

I have spent a good portion of my adult life working in an industry that pays based on production.

If the fiber optic/telecomm industry, the construction crews are paid by how much cable they place (either aerial or underground). If they have to go back and fix something they did wrong, they do it for free. If they don't fix it, another crew is sent and their pay is cut from the original crew's money.

It is amazing how much this motivates the crews to get to work on time, work hard, and provide a quality product.

 

[Bonzi]

The people that make a lot have a lot of responsibilities.
If the thing folds, its on them.
Low wage people don't.

Low wage people are more likely to get fired, however, if things fall apart.
The are the fall guy. Top dogs rarely get fired because they are usually friends and/or were hired by another top dog.......

I'll take the heat and keep the job.

In that case, that should be more motivation to be at the toplol

Hmmmm I'm losing this argument, I don't like it!

 

[Bonzi]

The people that make a lot have a lot of responsibilities.
If the thing folds, its on them.
Low wage people don't.

Low wage people are more likely to get fired, however, if things fall apart.
The are the fall guy. Top dogs rarely get fired because they are usually friends and/or were hired by another top dog.......

I'll take the heat and keep the job.

In that case, that should be more motivation to be at the toplol

Yeah well you need the connection to do that! which means you have to kiss ass and "hob nob" (I'm a great worker, not so good at kissing ass .... contrary to popular belief on this message board!)

 

[Bonzi]

So, okay, here is the job I want:

(1) 40 hours a week. PERIOD
(2) I don't need to be rich, maybe, $70k would work (plus 4 weeks vacation and decent benefits)
(3) 100% computer and/or telephone work.

I'll give up my lunch hour, but 8am -4pm non stop work, no travel, no meetings, no socializing, no overtime or weekends.

Not much to ask!

 

[Sonny Clark]

Still doesn't explain why people get paid top dollar to be assholes. (figured I'd simplify)

You'll have to ask the ones that hire assholes. Maybe assholes like to hire assholes. There could be many reasons. Oh, and it's not simple. Assholes could be very good at their job. Assholes could be making the company a lot of money. The possibilities are endless. There's no "one" answer that would fit all circumstances and situations. You'll have to refine your question, and post it in such a way that could be explained in a simple way. Your question is way too broad to be answered in a way that would cover every circumstance and situation. I gave you the basic information that explains today's work and employment environment. Now, post something that can be answered in a way that can be explained in a simple manner.

 

[Bonzi]

Still doesn't explain why people get paid top dollar to be assholes. (figured I'd simplify)

You'll have to ask the ones that hire assholes. Maybe assholes like to hire assholes. There could be many reasons. Oh, and it's not simple. Assholes could be very good at their job. Assholes could be making the company a lot of money. The possibilities are endless. There's no "one" answer that would fit all circumstances and situations. You'll have to refine your question, and post it in such a way that could be explained in a simple way. Your question is way too broad to be answered in a way that would cover every circumstance and situation. I gave you the basic information that explains today's work and employment environment. Now, post something that can be answered in a way that can be explained in a simple manner.

Coaches come up with the game plan.
Players execute.
Most of the time, players make more than the coaches. Particularly the players that execute most of the plans.

Managers come up with the game plan.
Administration executes.
Administration NEVER makes anything even close to the Managers. Ever.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Still doesn't explain why people get paid top dollar to be assholes. (figured I'd simplify)

You'll have to ask the ones that hire assholes. Maybe assholes like to hire assholes. There could be many reasons. Oh, and it's not simple. Assholes could be very good at their job. Assholes could be making the company a lot of money. The possibilities are endless. There's no "one" answer that would fit all circumstances and situations. You'll have to refine your question, and post it in such a way that could be explained in a simple way. Your question is way too broad to be answered in a way that would cover every circumstance and situation. I gave you the basic information that explains today's work and employment environment. Now, post something that can be answered in a way that can be explained in a simple manner.

Coaches come up with the game plan.
Players execute.
Most of the time, players make more than the coaches. Particularly the players that execute most of the plans.

Managers come up with the game plan.
Administration executes.
Administration NEVER makes anything even close to the Managers. Ever.

And your point is? Yes, there are different pay scales for different jobs. It's been that way since the beginning of time. And, it's not always assholes that get paid more. There are some very bright, educated, and friendly people making a lot of money. I fail to see your point. Yes, players make more than coaches because players are usually very skilled, and do the bulk of the work. Coaches can be replaced a lot easier than highly skilled players.

In addition, in the business world, value to a business usually dictates pay. What is an employees value to a business? What do they bring to the table? What is their track record? How does the business directly benefit from an employee? Every single situation is different, there are no blanket rules that apply. Different businesses have different needs, different job scopes, and select employees accordingly. All of this is common knowledge, it's not rocket science.

So again, what's your point? Do you not already know these things? Anyone that knows anything about sports and / or the business world, certainly knows and understands these things. Also, in reality, the definition of manager and supervisor depends on the business and their chain of command. In some cases, both are basically the same, with like responsibilities.

Anything else? Just ask.

 

[Bonzi]

Still doesn't explain why people get paid top dollar to be assholes. (figured I'd simplify)

You'll have to ask the ones that hire assholes. Maybe assholes like to hire assholes. There could be many reasons. Oh, and it's not simple. Assholes could be very good at their job. Assholes could be making the company a lot of money. The possibilities are endless. There's no "one" answer that would fit all circumstances and situations. You'll have to refine your question, and post it in such a way that could be explained in a simple way. Your question is way too broad to be answered in a way that would cover every circumstance and situation. I gave you the basic information that explains today's work and employment environment. Now, post something that can be answered in a way that can be explained in a simple manner.

Coaches come up with the game plan.
Players execute.
Most of the time, players make more than the coaches. Particularly the players that execute most of the plans.

Managers come up with the game plan.
Administration executes.
Administration NEVER makes anything even close to the Managers. Ever.

And your point is? Yes, there are different pay scales for different jobs. It's been that way since the beginning of time. And, it's not always assholes that get paid more. There are some very bright, educated, and friendly people making a lot of money. I fail to see your point. Yes, players make more than coaches because players are usually very skilled, and do the bulk of the work. Coaches can be replaced a lot easier than highly skilled players.

In addition, in the business world, value to a business usually dictates pay. What is an employees value to a business? What do they bring to the table? What is their track record? How does the business directly benefit from an employee? Every single situation is different, there are no blanket rules that apply. Different businesses have different needs, different job scopes, and select employees accordingly. All of this is common knowledge, it's not rocket science.

So again, what's your point? Do you not already know these things? Anyone that knows anything about sports and / or the business world, certainly knows and understands these things. Also, in reality, the definition of manager and supervisor depends on the business and their chain of command. In some cases, both are basically the same, with like responsibilities.

Anything else? Just ask.

Just seems to me an Assistant supporting a high level Executive probably does more for the business than a Mid Level Manager. I think that in may cases, "Secretarial" positions are vastly unpaid in proportion to what they do for the company and how what they do contributes to the bottom line. Often times, the knowledge base needed is equal to or greater than those making twice the salary.

I understand the way the world work. I'm just saying it's not adequate nor fair.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Still doesn't explain why people get paid top dollar to be assholes. (figured I'd simplify)

You'll have to ask the ones that hire assholes. Maybe assholes like to hire assholes. There could be many reasons. Oh, and it's not simple. Assholes could be very good at their job. Assholes could be making the company a lot of money. The possibilities are endless. There's no "one" answer that would fit all circumstances and situations. You'll have to refine your question, and post it in such a way that could be explained in a simple way. Your question is way too broad to be answered in a way that would cover every circumstance and situation. I gave you the basic information that explains today's work and employment environment. Now, post something that can be answered in a way that can be explained in a simple manner.

Coaches come up with the game plan.
Players execute.
Most of the time, players make more than the coaches. Particularly the players that execute most of the plans.

Managers come up with the game plan.
Administration executes.
Administration NEVER makes anything even close to the Managers. Ever.

And your point is? Yes, there are different pay scales for different jobs. It's been that way since the beginning of time. And, it's not always assholes that get paid more. There are some very bright, educated, and friendly people making a lot of money. I fail to see your point. Yes, players make more than coaches because players are usually very skilled, and do the bulk of the work. Coaches can be replaced a lot easier than highly skilled players.

In addition, in the business world, value to a business usually dictates pay. What is an employees value to a business? What do they bring to the table? What is their track record? How does the business directly benefit from an employee? Every single situation is different, there are no blanket rules that apply. Different businesses have different needs, different job scopes, and select employees accordingly. All of this is common knowledge, it's not rocket science.

So again, what's your point? Do you not already know these things? Anyone that knows anything about sports and / or the business world, certainly knows and understands these things. Also, in reality, the definition of manager and supervisor depends on the business and their chain of command. In some cases, both are basically the same, with like responsibilities.

Anything else? Just ask.

Just seems to me an Assistant supporting a high level Executive probably does more for the business than a Mid Level Manager. I think that in may cases, "Secretarial" positions are vastly unpaid in proportion to what they do for the company and how what they do contributes to the bottom line. Often times, the knowledge base needed is equal to or greater than those making twice the salary.

I understand the way the world work. I'm just saying it's not adequate nor fair.

Well, no shit, for real? ........... Your opinion does not change facts. Everyone of us disagrees about something that takes place in this world. We all see something that doesn't seem to be right and / or fair. We do not live in utopia, nor in paradise. This is not a perfect world. And, I'm sure that you know and realize that. So, again, what's your point? What kind of response were you looking for? I have explained, in detail, how the system works, and many of the reasons why it works the way it does. All of this is nothing more than common knowledge and common sense. I fail to see the point and purpose of your post. I don't see what you're getting at. All I see is what we all know and understand as just business as usual, and general practices.

 

[Bonzi]

Still doesn't explain why people get paid top dollar to be assholes. (figured I'd simplify)

You'll have to ask the ones that hire assholes. Maybe assholes like to hire assholes. There could be many reasons. Oh, and it's not simple. Assholes could be very good at their job. Assholes could be making the company a lot of money. The possibilities are endless. There's no "one" answer that would fit all circumstances and situations. You'll have to refine your question, and post it in such a way that could be explained in a simple way. Your question is way too broad to be answered in a way that would cover every circumstance and situation. I gave you the basic information that explains today's work and employment environment. Now, post something that can be answered in a way that can be explained in a simple manner.

Coaches come up with the game plan.
Players execute.
Most of the time, players make more than the coaches. Particularly the players that execute most of the plans.

Managers come up with the game plan.
Administration executes.
Administration NEVER makes anything even close to the Managers. Ever.

And your point is? Yes, there are different pay scales for different jobs. It's been that way since the beginning of time. And, it's not always assholes that get paid more. There are some very bright, educated, and friendly people making a lot of money. I fail to see your point. Yes, players make more than coaches because players are usually very skilled, and do the bulk of the work. Coaches can be replaced a lot easier than highly skilled players.

In addition, in the business world, value to a business usually dictates pay. What is an employees value to a business? What do they bring to the table? What is their track record? How does the business directly benefit from an employee? Every single situation is different, there are no blanket rules that apply. Different businesses have different needs, different job scopes, and select employees accordingly. All of this is common knowledge, it's not rocket science.

So again, what's your point? Do you not already know these things? Anyone that knows anything about sports and / or the business world, certainly knows and understands these things. Also, in reality, the definition of manager and supervisor depends on the business and their chain of command. In some cases, both are basically the same, with like responsibilities.

Anything else? Just ask.

Just seems to me an Assistant supporting a high level Executive probably does more for the business than a Mid Level Manager. I think that in may cases, "Secretarial" positions are vastly unpaid in proportion to what they do for the company and how what they do contributes to the bottom line. Often times, the knowledge base needed is equal to or greater than those making twice the salary.

I understand the way the world work. I'm just saying it's not adequate nor fair.

Well, no shit, for real? ........... Your opinion does not change facts. Everyone of us disagrees about something that takes place in this world. We all see something that doesn't seem to be right and / or fair. We do not live in utopia, nor in paradise. This is not a perfect world. And, I'm sure that you know and realize that. So, again, what's your point? What kind of response were you looking for? I have explained, in detail, how the system works, and many of the reasons why it works the way it does. All of this is nothing more than common knowledge and common sense. I fail to see the point and purpose of your post. I don't see what you're getting at. All I see is what we all know and understand as just business as usual, and general practices.

No need to get shitty.
Just have a discussion... sheesh!