CDZ Vouchers, how the heck would private schools work?

[2aguy]

Lets put the time money energy to Improve public schools. give all our kids an even chance. see if that helps some of our problems.

Never going to happen if politicians and unions control the money.

The only way to actually educate all children....give the parents the money.....then they will have the power to force education reform.

 

[2aguy]

This is how they would work....

Most people are happy with the school in their town, or don't pay much attention to what their kids are learning so they will simply use the voucher in the same school their kids go to now.

For the kids in a bad, democrat run school......they will have a chance to actually get an education. If you watch Waiting for Superman...or the other movie about education in America...you will see thousands of people lined up to get one of a hundred slots for private and charter schools...to get their kids out of the hell holes they attend....and only those few hundred can do it.....

Vouchers changes that.....they will increase the number of schools available since there will not be a block to private schools to open.....the parents can take the dollars for educating their children anywhere they want.....they won't be locked into a school simply because they live in that school district....

What about the cost to students? Will the cost be the same as the amount allowed on the vouchers, or will it turn into nothing more than subsidizing the rich , who can afford private schools anyway, at the expense of public school funding?

Every kid should get the same amount...and it should be the full amount for the education......if the rich want to send their kids to an elite school, they can use their voucher and then pay the extra cost......everyone else will have the power of the actual money paid to educate children...except the parents can choose which school gets it......that is amazing power....

 

[2aguy]

This is how they would work....

Most people are happy with the school in their town, or don't pay much attention to what their kids are learning so they will simply use the voucher in the same school their kids go to now.

For the kids in a bad, democrat run school......they will have a chance to actually get an education. If you watch Waiting for Superman...or the other movie about education in America...you will see thousands of people lined up to get one of a hundred slots for private and charter schools...to get their kids out of the hell holes they attend....and only those few hundred can do it.....

Vouchers changes that.....they will increase the number of schools available since there will not be a block to private schools to open.....the parents can take the dollars for educating their children anywhere they want.....they won't be locked into a school simply because they live in that school district....

What about the cost to students? Will the cost be the same as the amount allowed on the vouchers, or will it turn into nothing more than subsidizing the rich , who can afford private schools anyway, at the expense of public school funding?

Do you realize that more schools will open....? Built an staffed by people who actually care to teach? Or by people who want to make money by actually educating children? So they will hire actually good teachers in order to bring in those parents with those vouchers?

Why don't you understand that the same dynamic that puts different restaruant chains, or electronic store chains in a town will be the same dynamic for schools......and the parent will have the power to choose the school, and those schools will have to do a good job or the parents....and the money will actually be able to leave to find a better school....

Right now..if your school sucks....you are stuck if you don't have the money to move, or you don't have the money to pay taxes that pay for the bad school...and then pay for your own private school....

Why can't you see that?

 

[BULLDOG]

Lets say I am in year 5 of the voucher system and we have eliminated public schools.

False premise. A large majority of parents are satisfied with their public schools. Why shouldn't those who are not have some other options?

Because public school funding is taken and given to private schools ho don't have to meet the same standards.

Are you serious? You don't understand the dynamic, do you? If the private school doesn't educate kids.....the parents can take the money and go to another school....you do realize this...don't you? Right now, if your kid is in a bad public school...you either move your home to another school district, because you can't just go to the school in the next town, you are blocked by the law and the unions....or, after paying taxes to pay for the public school, you have to make even more money to pay your own way at a private school....and most poor people can't do this.

Now...with vouchers....poor people will have power......if a school is bad, they can take their dollars and go to another school...they aren't trapped. That means? Schools will have to educate children....or those parents can escape....

Why is that so hard to understand? If a school doesn't teach "to meet the same standards"....then the parents can leave......and find another school...

That means schools will actually have to meet those standards....which they do not have to do right now...as we see in Chicago where only 30% meet the math standard at grade level......is that "meeting the same standard?"

They aren't trapped if the voucher is enough to pay private school tuition. In most cases, it isn't.

 

[2aguy]

Public schools are all technically 'private' schools now; there is no Federal school district system, they're all independent districts. The issue is how much control these schools want to give away to the ridiculous strings put on Federal funds, is all. And yes, vouchers will indeed be subsidies for every student attending a school taking vouchers, as the money will go toward financing the school and thus every student going there, so it doesn't matter if there are 'limits' or not, and in fact the vouchers would never be enough to pay for a genuine 'private school experience' for very very poor or working class students; no poor or working class family is going to have the resources or time to get their kid(s) from South Dallas to classes in Plano every morning or where ever, they're still going to be choosing from schools that are nearby and already pretty much the same socioeconomic region they're in now.

And you don't get it......they won't have to leave South Dallas....with voucher, people will come in and open new schools......and they will do it to get the voucher money......

 

[BULLDOG]

This is how they would work....

Most people are happy with the school in their town, or don't pay much attention to what their kids are learning so they will simply use the voucher in the same school their kids go to now.

For the kids in a bad, democrat run school......they will have a chance to actually get an education. If you watch Waiting for Superman...or the other movie about education in America...you will see thousands of people lined up to get one of a hundred slots for private and charter schools...to get their kids out of the hell holes they attend....and only those few hundred can do it.....

Vouchers changes that.....they will increase the number of schools available since there will not be a block to private schools to open.....the parents can take the dollars for educating their children anywhere they want.....they won't be locked into a school simply because they live in that school district....

What about the cost to students? Will the cost be the same as the amount allowed on the vouchers, or will it turn into nothing more than subsidizing the rich , who can afford private schools anyway, at the expense of public school funding?

Every kid should get the same amount...and it should be the full amount for the education......if the rich want to send their kids to an elite school, they can use their voucher and then pay the extra cost......everyone else will have the power of the actual money paid to educate children...except the parents can choose which school gets it......that is amazing power....

Get back to me when that is part of the plan. For now, it's not.

 

[2aguy]

Lets put the time money energy to Improve public schools. give all our kids an even chance. see if that helps some of our problems.

Been tried, failed miserably in some places, fairly successful in others. Bottom line, parents who give a rat's patootie about the quality of their children's' education will use vouchers to seek out schools that meet their requirements, leaving public schools that vomit PC BS and provide touchy-feely, participation awards in the dust with the dregs whose parents should have been neutered before producing offspring.

And that is why they fight vouchers...besides the need to launder money to the democrat party through the teachers unions....they want to control the indoctrination of your kids.........

 

[BULLDOG]

This is how they would work....

Most people are happy with the school in their town, or don't pay much attention to what their kids are learning so they will simply use the voucher in the same school their kids go to now.

For the kids in a bad, democrat run school......they will have a chance to actually get an education. If you watch Waiting for Superman...or the other movie about education in America...you will see thousands of people lined up to get one of a hundred slots for private and charter schools...to get their kids out of the hell holes they attend....and only those few hundred can do it.....

Vouchers changes that.....they will increase the number of schools available since there will not be a block to private schools to open.....the parents can take the dollars for educating their children anywhere they want.....they won't be locked into a school simply because they live in that school district....

What about the cost to students? Will the cost be the same as the amount allowed on the vouchers, or will it turn into nothing more than subsidizing the rich , who can afford private schools anyway, at the expense of public school funding?

Do you realize that more schools will open....? Built an staffed by people who actually care to teach? Or by people who want to make money by actually educating children? So they will hire actually good teachers in order to bring in those parents with those vouchers?

Why don't you understand that the same dynamic that puts different restaruant chains, or electronic store chains in a town will be the same dynamic for schools......and the parent will have the power to choose the school, and those schools will have to do a good job or the parents....and the money will actually be able to leave to find a better school....

Right now..if your school sucks....you are stuck if you don't have the money to move, or you don't have the money to pay taxes that pay for the bad school...and then pay for your own private school....

Why can't you see that?

More private schools. Big deal. That doesn't guarantee all students have a fair shot at a better school, and it will take away from the already under funded public schools.

 

[jillian]

I am getting more skeptical on this the more I think about it. Then again it is just me and the internet here so set me straight.

How would a dream voucher system work?

Lets say I am in year 5 of the voucher system and we have eliminated public schools. Between my home and work there are 10 grade schools in the area.

- They range in cost from $4500 a year to $13,500.

So the cheapest school is going to fill up with kids from family's which can't afford better. They'll get the cruddiest education and be surrounded by kids from similar families.

The most cost effective couple schools are going to fill up.

One is going to go out of business at an inopportune time (it happens, look at the for profit colleges we have and the closing private schools). Maybe the state will bail it out as its too important to fail mid year. That will be great.

The unstable or non-cost effective schools are going to get the stragglers.

The rich kids are going to largely be at the most expensive ones which if tradition holds will be pretty good schools. Maybe those will offer a scholarship, especially if the state gives them tax breaks for doing so and our kids can get in. (EDIT: with the rich getting a tax credit or whatever there won't be that little bit of incentive for them to actually use the money the state taxes them for education and not pick a private school)

How are we gonna run sign ups? The state forces the last Monday in July is sign up day every year? You just pay ahead of time like for funerals in the hopes of saving a spot for your 1 year old?

What if the cheap schools fill up and that is all I can afford?

Will we have a way of forcing any of these schools to take special needs kids who can't cost effectively be taught?

No one is going to want to send their kids to where "they" (blacks, latinos, native americans, whoever you pick on locally) largely go.

I presume my old neighbor still have to pay taxes to be given to me to help me pick an expensive school?

Are we gonna Standardize test these kids to let them go onto the next grade? Otherwise some entrepreneur is going to give all his Senior's A's to get them college scholarships and the school a better reputation in the community. (something similar happened at a local nursing school where apparently they graduated everyone and hoped the state tests caught the undeserving)

What else am I not thinking about? There are positives, right?

vouchers take money from public education and give the money to people who have their children in privates schools (usually parochial). people who are low income cannot make use of the vouchers because they don't give them enough to pay tuition. but they're a giftie for rich people.

basically welfare for the top 1%

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

I am getting more skeptical on this the more I think about it. Then again it is just me and the internet here so set me straight.

How would a dream voucher system work?

Lets say I am in year 5 of the voucher system and we have eliminated public schools. Between my home and work there are 10 grade schools in the area.

- They range in cost from $4500 a year to $13,500.

So the cheapest school is going to fill up with kids from family's which can't afford better. They'll get the cruddiest education and be surrounded by kids from similar families.

The most cost effective couple schools are going to fill up.

One is going to go out of business at an inopportune time (it happens, look at the for profit colleges we have and the closing private schools). Maybe the state will bail it out as its too important to fail mid year. That will be great.

The unstable or non-cost effective schools are going to get the stragglers.

The rich kids are going to largely be at the most expensive ones which if tradition holds will be pretty good schools. Maybe those will offer a scholarship, especially if the state gives them tax breaks for doing so and our kids can get in. (EDIT: with the rich getting a tax credit or whatever there won't be that little bit of incentive for them to actually use the money the state taxes them for education and not pick a private school)

How are we gonna run sign ups? The state forces the last Monday in July is sign up day every year? You just pay ahead of time like for funerals in the hopes of saving a spot for your 1 year old?

What if the cheap schools fill up and that is all I can afford?

Will we have a way of forcing any of these schools to take special needs kids who can't cost effectively be taught?

No one is going to want to send their kids to where "they" (blacks, latinos, native americans, whoever you pick on locally) largely go.

I presume my old neighbor still have to pay taxes to be given to me to help me pick an expensive school?

Are we gonna Standardize test these kids to let them go onto the next grade? Otherwise some entrepreneur is going to give all his Senior's A's to get them college scholarships and the school a better reputation in the community. (something similar happened at a local nursing school where apparently they graduated everyone and hoped the state tests caught the undeserving)

What else am I not thinking about? There are positives, right?

Voucher allow you to make the choice which school you want your kid to attend.

If you want to send your child to a cheap school while not kicking in a few bucks to send them to a better school then that is your problem and not mine.

You had the child and it is your job to raise them and not my job nor the government job to educate your child.

So if you send your child to a cheap school then expect substandard results and if you want more for your child then pony up for the better school and yes you should sacrifice for your child future if you are a good parent!

 

[usmbguest5318]

Voucher allow you to make the choice which school you want your kid to attend.

If you want to send your child to a cheap school while not kicking in a few bucks to send them to a better school then that is your problem and not mine.

That's just it....voucher programs don't provide enough money for that to happen. Voucher programs also do not require non "cheap schools" to participate. Of the top private schools in the U.S., which of them is part of their states voucher program?

not my job nor the government job to educate your child

It seems you think the government should not operate schools. Is that an accurate inference?

 

[BULLDOG]

I am getting more skeptical on this the more I think about it. Then again it is just me and the internet here so set me straight.

How would a dream voucher system work?

Lets say I am in year 5 of the voucher system and we have eliminated public schools. Between my home and work there are 10 grade schools in the area.

- They range in cost from $4500 a year to $13,500.

So the cheapest school is going to fill up with kids from family's which can't afford better. They'll get the cruddiest education and be surrounded by kids from similar families.

The most cost effective couple schools are going to fill up.

One is going to go out of business at an inopportune time (it happens, look at the for profit colleges we have and the closing private schools). Maybe the state will bail it out as its too important to fail mid year. That will be great.

The unstable or non-cost effective schools are going to get the stragglers.

The rich kids are going to largely be at the most expensive ones which if tradition holds will be pretty good schools. Maybe those will offer a scholarship, especially if the state gives them tax breaks for doing so and our kids can get in. (EDIT: with the rich getting a tax credit or whatever there won't be that little bit of incentive for them to actually use the money the state taxes them for education and not pick a private school)

How are we gonna run sign ups? The state forces the last Monday in July is sign up day every year? You just pay ahead of time like for funerals in the hopes of saving a spot for your 1 year old?

What if the cheap schools fill up and that is all I can afford?

Will we have a way of forcing any of these schools to take special needs kids who can't cost effectively be taught?

No one is going to want to send their kids to where "they" (blacks, latinos, native americans, whoever you pick on locally) largely go.

I presume my old neighbor still have to pay taxes to be given to me to help me pick an expensive school?

Are we gonna Standardize test these kids to let them go onto the next grade? Otherwise some entrepreneur is going to give all his Senior's A's to get them college scholarships and the school a better reputation in the community. (something similar happened at a local nursing school where apparently they graduated everyone and hoped the state tests caught the undeserving)

What else am I not thinking about? There are positives, right?

Voucher allow you to make the choice which school you want your kid to attend.

If you want to send your child to a cheap school while not kicking in a few bucks to send them to a better school then that is your problem and not mine.

You had the child and it is your job to raise them and not my job nor the government job to educate your child.

So if you send your child to a cheap school then expect substandard results and if you want more for your child then pony up for the better school and yes you should sacrifice for your child future if you are a good parent!

Yes, it is the government's job. We, through our representatives decided it was better for the country to educate all of our children. Whether or not you like that doesn't matter. The decision was made long ago. That one fact makes everything you said nothing but inaccurate whining.

 

[Toronado3800]

I am getting more skeptical on this the more I think about it. Then again it is just me and the internet here so set me straight.

How would a dream voucher system work?

Lets say I am in year 5 of the voucher system and we have eliminated public schools. Between my home and work there are 10 grade schools in the area.

- They range in cost from $4500 a year to $13,500.

So the cheapest school is going to fill up with kids from family's which can't afford better. They'll get the cruddiest education and be surrounded by kids from similar families.

The most cost effective couple schools are going to fill up.

One is going to go out of business at an inopportune time (it happens, look at the for profit colleges we have and the closing private schools). Maybe the state will bail it out as its too important to fail mid year. That will be great.

The unstable or non-cost effective schools are going to get the stragglers.

The rich kids are going to largely be at the most expensive ones which if tradition holds will be pretty good schools. Maybe those will offer a scholarship, especially if the state gives them tax breaks for doing so and our kids can get in. (EDIT: with the rich getting a tax credit or whatever there won't be that little bit of incentive for them to actually use the money the state taxes them for education and not pick a private school)

How are we gonna run sign ups? The state forces the last Monday in July is sign up day every year? You just pay ahead of time like for funerals in the hopes of saving a spot for your 1 year old?

What if the cheap schools fill up and that is all I can afford?

Will we have a way of forcing any of these schools to take special needs kids who can't cost effectively be taught?

No one is going to want to send their kids to where "they" (blacks, latinos, native americans, whoever you pick on locally) largely go.

I presume my old neighbor still have to pay taxes to be given to me to help me pick an expensive school?

Are we gonna Standardize test these kids to let them go onto the next grade? Otherwise some entrepreneur is going to give all his Senior's A's to get them college scholarships and the school a better reputation in the community. (something similar happened at a local nursing school where apparently they graduated everyone and hoped the state tests caught the undeserving)

What else am I not thinking about? There are positives, right?

Voucher allow you to make the choice which school you want your kid to attend.

If you want to send your child to a cheap school while not kicking in a few bucks to send them to a better school then that is your problem and not mine.

You had the child and it is your job to raise them and not my job nor the government job to educate your child.

So if you send your child to a cheap school then expect substandard results and if you want more for your child then pony up for the better school and yes you should sacrifice for your child future if you are a good parent!

Ah, punish the kids to an inferior eduction for the inability of the parents to pay. Got it.

 

[Toronado3800]

Lets say I am in year 5 of the voucher system and we have eliminated public schools.

False premise. A large majority of parents are satisfied with their public schools. Why shouldn't those who are not have some other options?

I am trying to predict how things will play out here. My theory is taking the money from the public schools will make them worse.

 

[Toronado3800]

This is how they would work....

Most people are happy with the school in their town, or don't pay much attention to what their kids are learning so they will simply use the voucher in the same school their kids go to now.

For the kids in a bad, democrat run school......they will have a chance to actually get an education. If you watch Waiting for Superman...or the other movie about education in America...you will see thousands of people lined up to get one of a hundred slots for private and charter schools...to get their kids out of the hell holes they attend....and only those few hundred can do it.....

Vouchers changes that.....they will increase the number of schools available since there will not be a block to private schools to open.....the parents can take the dollars for educating their children anywhere they want.....they won't be locked into a school simply because they live in that school district....

What about the cost to students? Will the cost be the same as the amount allowed on the vouchers, or will it turn into nothing more than subsidizing the rich , who can afford private schools anyway, at the expense of public school funding?

Every kid should get the same amount...and it should be the full amount for the education......if the rich want to send their kids to an elite school, they can use their voucher and then pay the extra cost......everyone else will have the power of the actual money paid to educate children...except the parents can choose which school gets it......that is amazing power....

What is the full amount for the education? The average amount of schools in the metro area? It does not seem you mean the full amount is the amount for the best education.

 

[yiostheoy]

I am getting more skeptical on this the more I think about it. Then again it is just me and the internet here so set me straight.

How would a dream voucher system work?

Lets say I am in year 5 of the voucher system and we have eliminated public schools. Between my home and work there are 10 grade schools in the area.

- They range in cost from $4500 a year to $13,500.

So the cheapest school is going to fill up with kids from family's which can't afford better. They'll get the cruddiest education and be surrounded by kids from similar families.

The most cost effective couple schools are going to fill up.

One is going to go out of business at an inopportune time (it happens, look at the for profit colleges we have and the closing private schools). Maybe the state will bail it out as its too important to fail mid year. That will be great.

The unstable or non-cost effective schools are going to get the stragglers.

The rich kids are going to largely be at the most expensive ones which if tradition holds will be pretty good schools. Maybe those will offer a scholarship, especially if the state gives them tax breaks for doing so and our kids can get in. (EDIT: with the rich getting a tax credit or whatever there won't be that little bit of incentive for them to actually use the money the state taxes them for education and not pick a private school)

How are we gonna run sign ups? The state forces the last Monday in July is sign up day every year? You just pay ahead of time like for funerals in the hopes of saving a spot for your 1 year old?

What if the cheap schools fill up and that is all I can afford?

Will we have a way of forcing any of these schools to take special needs kids who can't cost effectively be taught?

No one is going to want to send their kids to where "they" (blacks, latinos, native americans, whoever you pick on locally) largely go.

I presume my old neighbor still have to pay taxes to be given to me to help me pick an expensive school?

Are we gonna Standardize test these kids to let them go onto the next grade? Otherwise some entrepreneur is going to give all his Senior's A's to get them college scholarships and the school a better reputation in the community. (something similar happened at a local nursing school where apparently they graduated everyone and hoped the state tests caught the undeserving)

What else am I not thinking about? There are positives, right?

The Fed's can take all their education related tax subsidies and put them all into a voucher fund, then distribute these funds to the states on a per capita basis for children according to the latest census.

Or the Fed's can get out of the education subsidy business altogether.

The States and Counties can contribute all their earmarked taxes for education to a voucher fund, then distribute these funds together with the Federal subsidies received to schools based on a voucher system.

Parents must be free to take their kids to whatever schools will accept them based on whatever criteria the schools want to use.

Children attending schools can become the benchmark for allocation of State and County funds for schooling.

Piece of cake. No worse than any other tax subsidization program.

Reforms for Negro neighborhood schools will therefore start at the preschool and early elementary stage for young Negroes. These little fokkers should be easier to control and train-up educationally at these early ages. The ones who bring dope or guns to schools may be summarily expelled. Those who are expelled will become dope runners for older Negroes.

Merit will ultimately decide whether kids can go to a charter school or need to go to a remedial school instead.

There will be money to be made in both charter schooling as well as remedial schooling.

 

[yiostheoy]

We have already lost a whole generation of young Negroes to our failed public education system. There is no way to reclaim these. They will end up in prison or dead on the streets or homeless.

What needs to happen is that the public education system needs to be reformed and incentivized to work and to teach.

Schools that fail should be measured by drop out rate and should be defunded.

Competition as always will ensure ultimate success.

 

[yiostheoy]

What is the full amount for the education? The average amount of schools in the metro area? It does not seem you mean the full amount is the amount for the best education.

You can google this yourself if you want to rather than shifting the burden.

See shifting the burden, infra (below):

List of fallacies - Wikipedia

 

[yiostheoy]

I am trying to predict how things will play out here. My theory is taking the money from the public schools will make them worse.

This is called a straw man.

See infra (below):

List of fallacies - Wikipedia

 

[yiostheoy]

I am getting more skeptical on this the more I think about it. Then again it is just me and the internet here so set me straight.

How would a dream voucher system work?

Lets say I am in year 5 of the voucher system and we have eliminated public schools. Between my home and work there are 10 grade schools in the area.

- They range in cost from $4500 a year to $13,500.

So the cheapest school is going to fill up with kids from family's which can't afford better. They'll get the cruddiest education and be surrounded by kids from similar families.

The most cost effective couple schools are going to fill up.

One is going to go out of business at an inopportune time (it happens, look at the for profit colleges we have and the closing private schools). Maybe the state will bail it out as its too important to fail mid year. That will be great.

The unstable or non-cost effective schools are going to get the stragglers.

The rich kids are going to largely be at the most expensive ones which if tradition holds will be pretty good schools. Maybe those will offer a scholarship, especially if the state gives them tax breaks for doing so and our kids can get in. (EDIT: with the rich getting a tax credit or whatever there won't be that little bit of incentive for them to actually use the money the state taxes them for education and not pick a private school)

How are we gonna run sign ups? The state forces the last Monday in July is sign up day every year? You just pay ahead of time like for funerals in the hopes of saving a spot for your 1 year old?

What if the cheap schools fill up and that is all I can afford?

Will we have a way of forcing any of these schools to take special needs kids who can't cost effectively be taught?

No one is going to want to send their kids to where "they" (blacks, latinos, native americans, whoever you pick on locally) largely go.

I presume my old neighbor still have to pay taxes to be given to me to help me pick an expensive school?

Are we gonna Standardize test these kids to let them go onto the next grade? Otherwise some entrepreneur is going to give all his Senior's A's to get them college scholarships and the school a better reputation in the community. (something similar happened at a local nursing school where apparently they graduated everyone and hoped the state tests caught the undeserving)

What else am I not thinking about? There are positives, right?

Voucher allow you to make the choice which school you want your kid to attend.

If you want to send your child to a cheap school while not kicking in a few bucks to send them to a better school then that is your problem and not mine.

You had the child and it is your job to raise them and not my job nor the government job to educate your child.

So if you send your child to a cheap school then expect substandard results and if you want more for your child then pony up for the better school and yes you should sacrifice for your child future if you are a good parent!

Ah, punish the kids to an inferior eduction for the inability of the parents to pay. Got it.

This is called a red herring.

See infra (below):

List of fallacies - Wikipedia