Voter ID Compromise

[Darkwind]

"Papers, please?"

No sir, I don't like it.

Better would be to have postcards sent out to the addresses of registered voters, who would then present them at the polling place to obtain a ballot. Don't have a legit local address, no voter registration.

No same-day registration or any other such silliness.

Problem solved.

And those postcards aren't "Papers"?

The postcard is good for one thing only: Obtaining a ballot.

The argument I hear from the voter ID crowd that I find the most lame is the one about needing an ID get get a hotel room or board a commercial airliner.

I say to hell with that. I want to rent a hotel room or get on an airliner, who I am is nobody's concern.

you want to vote? Register early, have a legit local address and bring your registration card to exchange for the ballot. The ID question goes away.

I have a better idea. If one cannot provide an ID to vote, they should have their Social Security, Welfare, Food Stamps, and any and all government assistance ended.

How can we possibly know who they are and that they actually need assistance.

 

[Pop23]

"Papers, please?"

No sir, I don't like it.

Better would be to have postcards sent out to the addresses of registered voters, who would then present them at the polling place to obtain a ballot. Don't have a legit local address, no voter registration.

No same-day registration or any other such silliness.

Problem solved.

And those postcards aren't "Papers"?

The postcard is good for one thing only: Obtaining a ballot.

The argument I hear from the voter ID crowd that I find the most lame is the one about needing an ID get get a hotel room or board a commercial airliner.

I say to hell with that. I want to rent a hotel room or get on an airliner, who I am is nobody's concern.

you want to vote? Register early, have a legit local address and bring your registration card to exchange for the ballot. The ID question goes away.

So the homeless don't get a ballot?

 

[NLT]

I agree having some valid ID is sensible, regardless of whether voter fraud is an actual problem. But if state-issued ID do indeed present some with an unfair burden aqquiring them, why not use any legally recognized contract as proof of identity? Like the rental contract even poor people would have signed renting their apartments, or a sworn affidavit under pains and penalties or perjury, or some other legal document? Why wouldn't those qualify as 'valid ID?' Presumedly whoever rents to you was presented with some kind of satisfactory ID before you moved in, so why couldn't whatever proof was presented be used, or the rental contract itself?

Why do some people insist that getting a valid ID is an unfair burden?

yea so unfair to require a photo ID or a SS card or a birth certificate.

 

[candycorn]

A federal law decreeing that all Voter Registration Cards bear the registrant's photograph would solve this problem.

liberals would never go for that

I'm a 'liberal' and I'd agree to that.

Same here.

This is why I wished I could consider voting for a Republican. We have 2 parties in this nation but one has basically disqualified themselves from getting my support; this even though I'm receptive to some of their ideas. I'm not a democrat but have a hard time not voting for them on the Federal level since the GOP is such a poor representative of the majority of my views.

 

[NLT]

A federal law decreeing that all Voter Registration Cards bear the registrant's photograph would solve this problem.

This is a ‘solution’ in search of a non-existent ‘problem,’ the myth of voter ‘fraud.’

Another liar denier

 

[BobPlumb]

And those postcards aren't "Papers"?

The postcard is good for one thing only: Obtaining a ballot.

The argument I hear from the voter ID crowd that I find the most lame is the one about needing an ID get get a hotel room or board a commercial airliner.

I say to hell with that. I want to rent a hotel room or get on an airliner, who I am is nobody's concern.

you want to vote? Register early, have a legit local address and bring your registration card to exchange for the ballot. The ID question goes away.

So the homeless don't get a ballot?

Don't most states require an address to register to vote, a place of residence?

Man, you just hit on something big....this has got to be voter suppression big time! What are we going to do about this. How are all the homeless drifters going to be able to vote with no place of residence?

 

[Pop23]

liberals would never go for that

I'm a 'liberal' and I'd agree to that.

Same here.

This is why I wished I could consider voting for a Republican. We have 2 parties in this nation but one has basically disqualified themselves from getting my support; this even though I'm receptive to some of their ideas. I'm not a democrat but have a hard time not voting for them on the Federal level since the GOP is such a poor representative of the majority of my views.

Where would the photo come from?

 

[Pop23]

The postcard is good for one thing only: Obtaining a ballot.

The argument I hear from the voter ID crowd that I find the most lame is the one about needing an ID get get a hotel room or board a commercial airliner.

I say to hell with that. I want to rent a hotel room or get on an airliner, who I am is nobody's concern.

you want to vote? Register early, have a legit local address and bring your registration card to exchange for the ballot. The ID question goes away.

So the homeless don't get a ballot?

Don't most states require an address to register to vote, a place of residence?

Man, you just hit on something big....this has got to be voter suppression big time! What are we going to do about this. How are all the homeless drifters going to be able to vote with no place of residence?

I don't know about all states, but the ones I know of have a system that allows the homeless, even those living under a bridge to exercise their constitutional right to vote. Of course they have to jump through hoops to do so.

Must be much more difficult for them then simply getting a state issued photo ID.

 

[Hum Dinger]

"To be eligible to register to vote in Texas, a person must be:
•A United States citizen;
•A resident of the Texas county in which application for registration is made;
•At least 18 years old on Election Day;
•Not finally convicted of a felony, or, if so convicted must have (1) fully discharged the sentence, including any term of incarceration, parole, or supervision, or completed a period of probation ordered by any court; or (2) been pardoned or otherwise released from the resulting disability to vote; and
•Not determined by a final judgment of a court exercising probate jurisdiction to be (1) totally mentally incapacitated; or (2) partially mentally incapacitated without the right to vote.

Accepted IDs;

•Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
•Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
•Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
•Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS
•United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
•United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
•United States passport
Texas Voting


The Election ID card is free of charge.


How is any of this a problem? So you need to prove you live in the County you are voting in, and that you are a US citizen. So what?

It sounds like Texas has done what I suggested earlier in this thread - implemented a program to easily provide photo ID cards.

I'd be interested to know how people prove their identity in order to get the election certification cards.

One of the big issues is that there are many people who were never issued birth certificates. Mostly very old people. Could these ID cards be issued based on long term voting records?

 

[percysunshine]

"To be eligible to register to vote in Texas, a person must be:
•A United States citizen;
•A resident of the Texas county in which application for registration is made;
•At least 18 years old on Election Day;
•Not finally convicted of a felony, or, if so convicted must have (1) fully discharged the sentence, including any term of incarceration, parole, or supervision, or completed a period of probation ordered by any court; or (2) been pardoned or otherwise released from the resulting disability to vote; and
•Not determined by a final judgment of a court exercising probate jurisdiction to be (1) totally mentally incapacitated; or (2) partially mentally incapacitated without the right to vote.

Accepted IDs;

•Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
•Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
•Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
•Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS
•United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
•United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
•United States passport
Texas Voting


The Election ID card is free of charge.


How is any of this a problem? So you need to prove you live in the County you are voting in, and that you are a US citizen. So what?

That they allow CHL but not Student ID's is not surprising....it's Texas.

A student ID does not demonstrate that a person is a US citizen. I can't think of a single nation on the planet that allows non-citizens to vote.

 

[candycorn]

I'm a 'liberal' and I'd agree to that.

Same here.

This is why I wished I could consider voting for a Republican. We have 2 parties in this nation but one has basically disqualified themselves from getting my support; this even though I'm receptive to some of their ideas. I'm not a democrat but have a hard time not voting for them on the Federal level since the GOP is such a poor representative of the majority of my views.

Where would the photo come from?

When you renew your Voter Reg. Card, they take your picture. You get your card free of charge. This could take place at any authorized location to make it easier for citizens to register. Like the local check cashing place or Mail Boxes Etc... or post office or college campus (most of whom have photo equipment in place already to take passport photos or what have you. It would be a lot like the current auto emissions rules; mechanic shops can opt in or opt out of doing it.

 

[candycorn]

"To be eligible to register to vote in Texas, a person must be:
•A United States citizen;
•A resident of the Texas county in which application for registration is made;
•At least 18 years old on Election Day;
•Not finally convicted of a felony, or, if so convicted must have (1) fully discharged the sentence, including any term of incarceration, parole, or supervision, or completed a period of probation ordered by any court; or (2) been pardoned or otherwise released from the resulting disability to vote; and
•Not determined by a final judgment of a court exercising probate jurisdiction to be (1) totally mentally incapacitated; or (2) partially mentally incapacitated without the right to vote.

Accepted IDs;

•Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
•Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
•Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
•Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS
•United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
•United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
•United States passport
Texas Voting


The Election ID card is free of charge.


How is any of this a problem? So you need to prove you live in the County you are voting in, and that you are a US citizen. So what?

That they allow CHL but not Student ID's is not surprising....it's Texas.

A student ID does not demonstrate that a person is a US citizen. I can't think of a single nation on the planet that allows non-citizens to vote.

Good point. Non-citizens can't get CHLs? Didn't know that.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Same here.

This is why I wished I could consider voting for a Republican. We have 2 parties in this nation but one has basically disqualified themselves from getting my support; this even though I'm receptive to some of their ideas. I'm not a democrat but have a hard time not voting for them on the Federal level since the GOP is such a poor representative of the majority of my views.

Where would the photo come from?

When you renew your Voter Reg. Card, they take your picture. You get your card free of charge. This could take place at any authorized location to make it easier for citizens to register. Like the local check cashing place or Mail Boxes Etc... or post office or college campus (most of whom have photo equipment in place already to take passport photos or what have you. It would be a lot like the current auto emissions rules; mechanic shops can opt in or opt out of doing it.

Not all states require voters to ‘renew’ anything, unaware of any that do; once registered one remains eligible to vote as long as he votes during a specified time period, usually 2 or 4 years. I registered to vote in my current state of residence some 30 years ago, voted at least every two years, and haven’t been required to ‘renew’ anything.

And that’s the issue: voters who registered to vote 30 or 40 years ago when documentation requirements were very different, who are currently eligible to vote, and who lack the required documentation today to secure a state-issued photo ID.

All of this in the context of the fact that voter ‘fraud’ by identity is virtually non-existent.

 

[blackhawk]

A drivers license is a valid photo I.D. I know of very few who are of legal voting age who don't have one sorry I really don't see the problem of taking it out of your wallet or purse and showing it when you go to vote.

 

[oldfart]

I agree having some valid ID is sensible, regardless of whether voter fraud is an actual problem. But if state-issued ID do indeed present some with an unfair burden aqquiring them, why not use any legally recognized contract as proof of identity? Like the rental contract even poor people would have signed renting their apartments, or a sworn affidavit under pains and penalties or perjury, or some other legal document? Why wouldn't those qualify as 'valid ID?' Presumedly whoever rents to you was presented with some kind of satisfactory ID before you moved in, so why couldn't whatever proof was presented be used, or the rental contract itself?

They are many jurisdictions that accept such documents as ID, in addition to paycheck stubs, utility bills, and letters or other government documents with the name and address of the voter.

No one objects to requiring ID that does not manifest an undue burden to voting; it’s the requirement of a state-issued photo ID that’s problematic, usually requiring a birth certificate that was not issued to the voter at birth during segregation, or where what was issued at birth was not promulgated and is unacceptable now.

The fact is these voters legally registered to vote 30 or 40 years ago in accordance with their states’ elections laws at the time, and have voted in every election during that time where their voter registration status remain valid. The state cannot disallow these voters from voting now because they can’t acquire state-issued photo ID through no fault of their own. In such cases paycheck stubs or utility bills or the like should be allowed to be used when voting.

The problem is that a state operating in good faith would not present any problem. But that is not the case. Do you know the standards and procedures for provisional ballots in your state? If you answer yes, you are an election attorney. People the pollworkers want to vote who are not on the election roles are walked through the procedure or simply allowed to cast a regular ballot. People who are on the voting roles but who the pollworkers don't want to vote are given a runaround and sent to the county courthouse to get proof they are registered. No provisional ballot is mentioned. There are at least 100,000 cases of election fraud committed this and other ways by election officials for every true case of voter fraud.

As the legendary Mr. Dooley said, "A vote on the tally sheet is worth two in the ballot box". And yes, I have seen dozens of these tricks used on hundreds of voters as a poll watcher.

 

[TooTall]

"To be eligible to register to vote in Texas, a person must be:
•A United States citizen;
•A resident of the Texas county in which application for registration is made;
•At least 18 years old on Election Day;
•Not finally convicted of a felony, or, if so convicted must have (1) fully discharged the sentence, including any term of incarceration, parole, or supervision, or completed a period of probation ordered by any court; or (2) been pardoned or otherwise released from the resulting disability to vote; and
•Not determined by a final judgment of a court exercising probate jurisdiction to be (1) totally mentally incapacitated; or (2) partially mentally incapacitated without the right to vote.

Accepted IDs;

•Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
•Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
•Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
•Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS
•United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
•United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
•United States passport
Texas Voting


The Election ID card is free of charge.


How is any of this a problem? So you need to prove you live in the County you are voting in, and that you are a US citizen. So what?

That they allow CHL but not Student ID's is not surprising....it's Texas.

You don't have to be a citizen to get a student ID.

 

[Sallow]

In essence what conservatives are saying is that you must have a driver's license or passport to vote.

How about all the people that do not drive and aren't planning on leaving the country anytime soon?

Any state that requires a picture ID must implement a program whereby people can very easily obtain such an ID. Anything else is the denial of people's right to vote.

1. Nope, just a photo ID.

2. How many people don't have or can't obtain a photo ID? Do you know anyone like that?

3. Compare that to the potential for voter fraud, which is in the millions.

4. Why aren't you protesting voter ID laws in other countries?

Actual voter fraud doesn't even get passed 100. And it generally takes place on ballots that are mailed in.

 

[TooTall]

A federal law decreeing that all Voter Registration Cards bear the registrant's photograph would solve this problem.

liberals would never go for that

I don't think they would. But I do think whenever you say the words "Federal law decreeing that all...." conservatives are usually the ones that come out swinging.

I would also strongly suggest that the Federal Government supply 100% of all voting machines so there is no difference in the software, the ballot formats, how to remedy problems, etc...

As you likely know, I'm pretty liberal but I can never quite understand the liberal phobic reaction to wanting as sterile a voting process as we can field? I'm of the firm opinion that most "fraud" is just negligence;

you go to the wrong polling place,

you hear about the election on TV but live in the incorporated suburbs and work in the city where the election is taking place so you are not sure if you are to vote or not (there are sometimes state or county issues on the ballot)

or the poll workers mark you off as having voted because your name is Jane Doe and there are 4 Jane Does on their rolls. I had my AAA membership cancelled the other day because someone sharing my name cancelled theirs.

Anything that will help give us the most sterile process possible is fine by me. I think elections should last for an entire week or so. If there are any problems, they can be addressed while the election is still going on. We have 330,000,000+ people in this nation and we have shameful numbers voting. This would engender greater participation; allow people working multiple jobs or who are traveling a better chance to cast a ballot. People who are sick on the one magic day we cast ballots can wait until they are less infirmed. \

Anyway, just my opinioin.

For what it is worth.

The reason conservatives "come out swinging" is they believe that is not the intent of the Constitution:

Section. 4.
The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

The same reasoning for the feds supplying all voting machines and software. Not everyone trusts the government.

In my state the polling address is clearly displayed on my voter registration card and I get a new card every year. I had a neighbor that moved, diidn't look at his registration card and went to the wrong polling place. The poll worker gave him the location of the one where he was registered to vote.

There may be 4 Jane Does listed on the registration rolls, but since they will all probably have a different address, the poll worker can verify which Jane Doe you are by checking to see that the address on your photo ID matches the address of one of the Jane Does.

Is AAA so careless that they didn't check the address of a member? I will have to rethink my membership.

I agree that the participation of so few Americans in the election process is sad. In my state the election process goes on for several weeks, with early voting in various locations, but do not know about the other 56 states. (The devil made me do that) My job takes me out of town or out of the country at times. Since I know my travel schedule in advance, I have had to vote absentee several times.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Statistikhengst]

In essence what conservatives are saying is that you must have a driver's license or passport to vote.

How about all the people that do not drive and aren't planning on leaving the country anytime soon?

Any state that requires a picture ID must implement a program whereby people can very easily obtain such an ID. Anything else is the denial of people's right to vote.

1. Nope, just a photo ID.

2. How many people don't have or can't obtain a photo ID? Do you know anyone like that?

3. Compare that to the potential for voter fraud, which is in the millions.

4. Why aren't you protesting voter ID laws in other countries?

No, that is a lie, plain and simple. It has been proven time and time again that voter fraud has been miniscule. MINISCULE. Only 0.0024% of ballots in Ohio were fraudulent and a number of them were from elderly voters who accidentally voted twice (early ballot, provisional ballot) and voluntarily turned themselves in.

Old, red Herring, nothing more.

 

[TooTall]

In essence what conservatives are saying is that you must have a driver's license or passport to vote.

How about all the people that do not drive and aren't planning on leaving the country anytime soon?

Any state that requires a picture ID must implement a program whereby people can very easily obtain such an ID. Anything else is the denial of people's right to vote.

1. Nope, just a photo ID.

2. How many people don't have or can't obtain a photo ID? Do you know anyone like that?

3. Compare that to the potential for voter fraud, which is in the millions.

4. Why aren't you protesting voter ID laws in other countries?

No, that is a lie, plain and simple. It has been proven time and time again that voter fraud has been miniscule. MINISCULE. Only 0.0024% of ballots in Ohio were fraudulent and a number of them were from elderly voters who accidentally voted twice (early ballot, provisional ballot) and voluntarily turned themselves in.

Old, red Herring, nothing more.

Since there is not photo ID law in Ohio, I say the red herring is anyone who thinks they proved how many votes were fraudulent. Kind of like saying only 1% of the people on the freeway were speeding since that is all that got caught.