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"Vote Early and Often"--The Need to Clean Up Our Election Procedures

Adam's Apple

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Interesting article. Since the last presidential election, have any of your states enacted laws to prevent voter fraud? A current photo I.D. is now required in order to cast a vote in my state. Before we could vote in the municipal elections last fall, we had to show a photo I.D. to the workers at the polls.

How to Run a Clean Election
What Mexico can teach the United States.
By John H. Fund, Opinion Journal
July 10, 2006

Mexico is likely to weather the controversy over its photo-finish election despite the protestors that losing candidate Andrés Manuel López Obrador brought into the streets on Saturday to claim the election had been stolen. Mexico's nonpartisan National Election Commission has built up a decade of credibility in running clean elections and international observers have certified the count as fair. Indeed, in its successful efforts to overcome its old reputation for corrupt vote-counting Mexico has a lot to teach the United States.

Mexico has developed an elaborate system of safeguards to prevent voter fraud. Absentee ballots, which are cast outside the view of election officials and represent the easiest way to commit fraud, are much harder to apply for than in the U.S. Voters must present a valid voter ID card with a photo and imbedded security codes. After they cast a ballot voters--just like those famously pictured in Iraq last year--also have a finger or thumb dipped in indelible purple ink to prevent them from voting again.

In the U.S. opponents of such anti-fraud measures as photo ID laws claim they will disenfranchise many voters and reduce voter turnout. But John Lott, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, notes that in the three presidential elections Mexico has conducted since the National Election Commission reformed the election laws "68% of eligible citizens have voted, compared to only 59% in the three elections prior to the rule changes." People are more likely to vote if they believe their ballot will be fairly counted.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110008630
 

insein

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I heard about this the other day. Isnt it sad that Mexico of all places has an electoral process that involves ID's and indellable ink on your hand so that you can only vote once and American Politicians REFUSE to incorporate these measures to ensure fair elections.

This is a no brainer people. Federally mandate that all State run facilities will still be run by the states for state elections but for all Federal elections (Congress and Presidential) you must have a Voter ID card and you must place your finger or thumb in indellable ink so that you cant vote again that day. Try to pass it and see which politicians are strongly opposed to it. Then you'll know how some got elected.
 

theHawk

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Yea you'll see dems fight any measure like that tooth and nail.
 

Mr. P

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Adam's Apple said:
Interesting article. Since the last presidential election, have any of your states enacted laws to prevent voter fraud? A current photo I.D. is now required in order to cast a vote in my state. Before we could vote in the municipal elections last fall, we had to show a photo I.D. to the workers at the polls.
We're trying..........BUT!
ATLANTA — Georgia's attorney general filed an emergency appeal Monday of a court order that blocks the state from enforcing its new voter photo identification law during next week's primary elections.

The new law requires that every voter who casts a ballot in person produce a valid, government-issued photo ID.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202836,00.html
 

acludem

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Here's my problem: There is no law requiring citizens to carry a photo ID. There is a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to vote to all citizens over 18 (except felons). The real reason Republicans want to require a photo ID is to keep poor people, people with disabilties, and people with limited transportation options from voting because these people vote Democratic. This isn't about voter fraud, Republicans have opposed Democratic efforts to make voting more accessible and to improve machines,etc. This is about Republicans trying to disenfranchise segments of the population that don't vote for them.

acludem
 

Mr. P

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acludem said:
Here's my problem: There is no law requiring citizens to carry a photo ID. There is a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to vote to all citizens over 18 (except felons). The real reason Republicans want to require a photo ID is to keep poor people, people with disabilties, and people with limited transportation options from voting because these people vote Democratic. This isn't about voter fraud, Republicans have opposed Democratic efforts to make voting more accessible and to improve machines,etc. This is about Republicans trying to disenfranchise segments of the population that don't vote for them.

acludem
That's Total BULLSHIT..It's about verifying registered voters, registered being legal.
That verification doesn’t prevent legal voters from voting.
 

Stephanie

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acludem said:
Here's my problem: There is no law requiring citizens to carry a photo ID. There is a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to vote to all citizens over 18 (except felons). The real reason Republicans want to require a photo ID is to keep poor people, people with disabilties, and people with limited transportation options from voting because these people vote Democratic. This isn't about voter fraud, Republicans have opposed Democratic efforts to make voting more accessible and to improve machines,etc. This is about Republicans trying to disenfranchise segments of the population that don't vote for them.

acludem

All what you spewed here is total BS.

If a poor person can get to a welfare office to sign up, I'm sure they can get to a DMV, to get a photo id for $10 bucks...
 

Hobbit

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acludem said:
Here's my problem: There is no law requiring citizens to carry a photo ID. There is a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to vote to all citizens over 18 (except felons).

First off, no, it doesn't. Nowhere in the Constitution is anyone given the right to vote. The ammendment to which you refer only allows people under 18 who otherwise qualify to vote, as opposed to the old age of 21. Under the original government, you could only vote if you owned land. Once again, there's nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing anyone the right to vote.

The real reason Republicans want to require a photo ID is to keep poor people, people with disabilties, and people with limited transportation options from voting because these people vote Democratic. This isn't about voter fraud, Republicans have opposed Democratic efforts to make voting more accessible and to improve machines,etc. This is about Republicans trying to disenfranchise segments of the population that don't vote for them.

In Georgia, the state legislature thought of this 'problem,' despite the fact that those who make it to the welfare office can also make it to the DMV. The state provides free transportation to anyone wishing to obtain a photo ID. They will also send absentee ballots by mail to those who can show proof of GA residency, proof of U.S. citizenship, and have a valid SS number. You don't even have to leave the house. There are even Democrats running voter turnout campaigns and are trying their absolute best to get as many people as possible to take advantage of these programs. So far, the number of people per county who are taking advantage of these programs is around 20, usually less, and that's in Atlanta.
 

theHawk

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acludem said:
Here's my problem: There is no law requiring citizens to carry a photo ID. There is a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to vote to all citizens over 18 (except felons). The real reason Republicans want to require a photo ID is to keep poor people, people with disabilties, and people with limited transportation options from voting because these people vote Democratic. This isn't about voter fraud, Republicans have opposed Democratic efforts to make voting more accessible and to improve machines,etc. This is about Republicans trying to disenfranchise segments of the population that don't vote for them.

acludem

What a crock of shit. You're telling me that these people don't have ID cards?
What does an income level or having a disablity have to do with showing an ID card when they vote?

I am willing to bet that most voter fraud is perpetrated by Dems. We saw in the last election it was mainly Dems doing things like hiring thugs to slash tires of repulican vehicles being used to help promote voting.

Its funny how every election the dems lose, then they scream voter fraud, yet are completely unwilling to do something about it. Total fucking hypocrits.
 

acludem

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Hobbit said:
First off, no, it doesn't. Nowhere in the Constitution is anyone given the right to vote. The ammendment to which you refer only allows people under 18 who otherwise qualify to vote, as opposed to the old age of 21. Under the original government, you could only vote if you owned land. Once again, there's nothing in the Constitution guaranteeing anyone the right to vote.
The right to vote is gauranteed in the 15th, 19th and 26th amendments to the Constitution. States set the procedures, but they cannot deny any citizen the right to vote unless they are a convicted felon. Voter ID cards, which I could support if they are properly administered, are designed by Republicans to disenfranchise large numbers of Democratic voters. If they are concerned about voter fraud, they need to pass funding for new and better voting equipment, give counties and townships more funding for better administration of elections, etc.


In Georgia, the state legislature thought of this 'problem,' despite the fact that those who make it to the welfare office can also make it to the DMV. The state provides free transportation to anyone wishing to obtain a photo ID. They will also send absentee ballots by mail to those who can show proof of GA residency, proof of U.S. citizenship, and have a valid SS number. You don't even have to leave the house. There are even Democrats running voter turnout campaigns and are trying their absolute best to get as many people as possible to take advantage of these programs. So far, the number of people per county who are taking advantage of these programs is around 20, usually less, and that's in Atlanta.
I'm glad Georgia did that, but many states aren't doing that. And no, many people with disabilities cannot make it the DMV by some artificial deadline. Other poor folks don't have reliable transportation. I have no issue with requiring some sort of additional identification at the polls, so long as it is administered fairly and for free. Otherwise, you are violating the Constitutional prohibition against poll taxes, which is exactly what the Georgia court said.

acludem
 

insein

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acludem said:
I'm glad Georgia did that, but many states aren't doing that. And no, many people with disabilities cannot make it the DMV by some artificial deadline. Other poor folks don't have reliable transportation. I have no issue with requiring some sort of additional identification at the polls, so long as it is administered fairly and for free. Otherwise, you are violating the Constitutional prohibition against poll taxes, which is exactly what the Georgia court said.

acludem

I sometimes wonder about you, acludem. You oppose the most basic of concepts that would be beneficial to our whole voting process. No more cries of voter fraud. No more cries of stuffing the ballot box. No more illegals casting a vote for pro-illegal candidates. No more dead people voting several times on election day. We would know that the person elected got elected by the living citizens of this nation.

It is incredibly simple to incorporate the program to get people an ID. Millions of American citizens have a driver's license and/or state ID to goto their favorite bar or to show ID at the welfare office. Providing ID's to those with disabilities or those of poor backgroun (although i dont see how economic background dictates you walking to a DMV or government office) is not impossible at all. If those people with disabilities can get out to vote, then they can get out to get a voter's ID.

For Christ's sake if Iraq and Mexico can do it, then why cant the greatest nation on Earth?
 

Avatar4321

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insein said:
I sometimes wonder about you, acludem. You oppose the most basic of concepts that would be beneficial to our whole voting process. No more cries of voter fraud. No more cries of stuffing the ballot box. No more illegals casting a vote for pro-illegal candidates. No more dead people voting several times on election day. We would know that the person elected got elected by the living citizens of this nation.

It is incredibly simple to incorporate the program to get people an ID. Millions of American citizens have a driver's license and/or state ID to goto their favorite bar or to show ID at the welfare office. Providing ID's to those with disabilities or those of poor backgroun (although i dont see how economic background dictates you walking to a DMV or government office) is not impossible at all. If those people with disabilities can get out to vote, then they can get out to get a voter's ID.

For Christ's sake if Iraq and Mexico can do it, then why cant the greatest nation on Earth?

Its easy why, because if you prevent dead people from voting it threatens Democrat power even more.
 

acludem

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Republicans don't want stuffed ballot boxes, they want ballot boxes with as few votes as possible in them. Fewer voters = Republican victory. The more people the Republicans can disenfranchise the more power they will have. That's why Republicans were so vehement that Florida shouldn't count every vote in 2000. That's why they've so vehemently opposed fair and equitable voting equipment. The more ballots they can throw out on technicalities, the more likely they are to win elections.

I think a properly administered, fair, and free ID card for voters would be fine. Many localities already have it, it's called a voter registration card. Poll workers check the card, have you initial a spot on the voter registry, and then once that spot is intialled, that voter is not allowed to vote again. If you aren't on the registry, you fill out a provisional ballot, which after being checked by the county clerk or other election official is counted or not depending on whether you are actually allowed to vote.

This isn't the 1960s. We have computers and sophisticated software to check votes. There should be little, if any, concern about massive voter fraud. What should be of concern is the constant effort by Republicans to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters.
 

Abbey Normal

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acludem said:
Here's my problem: There is no law requiring citizens to carry a photo ID. There is a constitutional amendment guaranteeing the right to vote to all citizens over 18 (except felons). The real reason Republicans want to require a photo ID is to keep poor people, people with disabilties, and people with limited transportation options from voting because these people vote Democratic. This isn't about voter fraud, Republicans have opposed Democratic efforts to make voting more accessible and to improve machines,etc. This is about Republicans trying to disenfranchise segments of the population that don't vote for them.

acludem

Oh for the love of all that is holy- you can't possibly believe this.
 

red states rule

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Abbey Normal said:
Oh for the love of all that is holy- you can't possibly believe this.


Without election fraud, how could Dems ever expect to win another election?

In the CA 50th the Dem bimbo actually said illegals did not need papers to vote
 

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PHOTO ID is what we're talking about, to prove you are the person on your voter registration card you show.....

Anybody can use a voter registration card, hell I could borrow my grandmothers if I didn't have one.... There's no photo on them....



Here in Alaska, we have to show a photo id, along with our registration card..
We never seem to have any problems......

This is a Democrat made up problem, for their voter cheating...
Along with their thuggery, and destruction of vans and cars, so republicans can't go get those poor, disabled people to the polls....

Pathetic in my book...
 

red states rule

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Stephanie said:
PHOTO ID is what we're talking about, to prove you are the person on your voter registration card you show.....

Anybody can use a voter registration card, hell I could borrow my grandmothers if I didn't have one.... There's no photo on them....



Here in Alaska, we have to show a photo id, along with our registration card..
We never seem to have any problems......

This is a Democrat made up problem, for their voter cheating...
Along with their thuggery, and destruction of vans and cars, so republicans can't go get those poor, disabled people to the polls....

Pathatic in my book...


As well as bribing homless people to vote for Dems in exchange for cigarettes
 

insein

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acludem said:
Republicans don't want stuffed ballot boxes, they want ballot boxes with as few votes as possible in them. Fewer voters = Republican victory. The more people the Republicans can disenfranchise the more power they will have. That's why Republicans were so vehement that Florida shouldn't count every vote in 2000. That's why they've so vehemently opposed fair and equitable voting equipment. The more ballots they can throw out on technicalities, the more likely they are to win elections.

I think a properly administered, fair, and free ID card for voters would be fine. Many localities already have it, it's called a voter registration card. Poll workers check the card, have you initial a spot on the voter registry, and then once that spot is intialled, that voter is not allowed to vote again. If you aren't on the registry, you fill out a provisional ballot, which after being checked by the county clerk or other election official is counted or not depending on whether you are actually allowed to vote.

This isn't the 1960s. We have computers and sophisticated software to check votes. There should be little, if any, concern about massive voter fraud. What should be of concern is the constant effort by Republicans to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters.

Baseless accusations aside, why are you so against a photo ID for voters? Combine that with an indellable ink to make sure people dont vote more than once in multiple districts and we have a simple solution to a problem that has held this country back for a long time. With accurate reports of dead people voting in elections for Washington State Governorship and other scandals of the past, why would you oppose proving that the person standing before the booth is the person that they say they are? Because of an unproven fear of "disenfranchisement" of "poor" voters? There has to be a better reason then that.
 

Avatar4321

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acludem said:
Republicans don't want stuffed ballot boxes, they want ballot boxes with as few votes as possible in them. Fewer voters = Republican victory. The more people the Republicans can disenfranchise the more power they will have. That's why Republicans were so vehement that Florida shouldn't count every vote in 2000. That's why they've so vehemently opposed fair and equitable voting equipment. The more ballots they can throw out on technicalities, the more likely they are to win elections.

I think a properly administered, fair, and free ID card for voters would be fine. Many localities already have it, it's called a voter registration card. Poll workers check the card, have you initial a spot on the voter registry, and then once that spot is intialled, that voter is not allowed to vote again. If you aren't on the registry, you fill out a provisional ballot, which after being checked by the county clerk or other election official is counted or not depending on whether you are actually allowed to vote.

This isn't the 1960s. We have computers and sophisticated software to check votes. There should be little, if any, concern about massive voter fraud. What should be of concern is the constant effort by Republicans to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters.

Dude, your argument isnt very logical. If we lose with higher voter turn out why is it that President Bush was just overwhelmingly reelected with the highest voter turn out in a long time?

And btw while I understand the concern for disenfranchised voters, dead people are supposed to be disenfranchised.

Also, if we dont have to worry about massive voter fraud why are all your friends claiming Bush cheated with voter fraud?
 

red states rule

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Avatar4321 said:
Dude, your argument isnt very logical. If we lose with higher voter turn out why is it that President Bush was just overwhelmingly reelected with the highest voter turn out in a long time?

And btw while I understand the concern for disenfranchised voters, dead people are supposed to be disenfranchised.

Also, if we dont have to worry about massive voter fraud why are all your friends claiming Bush cheated with voter fraud?


Libs cry foul everytime they lose. Their arrogance demands they look for any reason to explain their loss. Execpt of course, the people rejected their ideas
 

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