CDZ Violent crime in Britain, up 24%, Violent gun crime in U.S. down 75%, with our guns?

2aguy

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2014
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How is it possible that British violent crime, including gun crime has gone up...violent crime in total 24%, and gun crime by 10% in London and other major cities....

While gun murder in the U.S. has gone down 49% since the 1990s, and all violent crime went down 75% since the 1990s...as more Americans bought guns and now over 15 million Americans carry guns legally,,,?

Britain....



Violent crime in England and Wales is up 24%, police figures show

CCTV captures shooting during 12-man brawl in north London

Shots were fired during a confrontation involving at least 12 men in a quiet suburban street, police have revealed.

CCTV footage shows three car-loads of men, thought to be rival gangs, pull up in a residential street in north London, before squaring up to each other in the lamplight.

One hooded man pulls away from the huddle, points a handgun towards a driver’s seat and apparently fires as the car reverses away.
--------
Latest figures show a 10 per cent increase in firearms incidents – up to 2,122 – in the past year.

Violent crime in England and Wales was up 24 per cent during the 12 months ending June this year, according to an Office for National Statistics report.=====================


Homicides in England and Wales up 14%

The police-recorded crime figures include a 9% rise in knife crime and a 4% rise in gun crime, which are thought to reflect a rise in gang violence largely in London and Manchester.

The rise in gun crime is the first recorded for eight years and includes a 10% rise in London.
The official statisticians say that a 36% rise in sexual offences, including the highest number of rapes since 2003 – at 33,341 – reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes rather than a re
al surge in attacks.

The U.S....

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
 
How is it possible that British violent crime, including gun crime has gone up...violent crime in total 24%, and gun crime by 10% in London and other major cities....

number of gun murders in the UK - 48 a year.
Number of gun murders in the US - 11,000 a year.

Statistics are meaningless compared to raw numbers.
 
Where is our favorite Orwellian Welshman? How come he has not posted a rebuttal?
 
How is it possible that British violent crime, including gun crime has gone up...violent crime in total 24%, and gun crime by 10% in London and other major cities....

number of gun murders in the UK - 48 a year.
Number of gun murders in the US - 11,000 a year.

Statistics are meaningless compared to raw numbers.
Oh God...instead we get Joey.

Damn...I think I prefer the Welshman. How bad does that make Joey?
 
How is it possible that British violent crime, including gun crime has gone up...violent crime in total 24%, and gun crime by 10% in London and other major cities....

number of gun murders in the UK - 48 a year.
Number of gun murders in the US - 11,000 a year.

Statistics are meaningless compared to raw numbers.
in 2014 there were not 11000 gun murders there were 8124

you only overstated your claim by almost 30%

that's actually as honest as I've ever seen you be here

Quandl
 
Oh God...instead we get Joey.

Damn...I think I prefer the Welshman. How bad does that make Joey?

Not going to get into a personal issue with you, but the numbers are the numbers.

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

gun Homicides in the US
2014: 10,945
2013: 11,208
2012: 11,622
2011: 11,068

Guns in the United Kingdom — Firearms, gun law and gun control

2013: 23
2012: 12
2011: 38
2010: 33
tell me if gun control in the UK works then why is their murder rate not lower than it was before all the gun laws of the 60's were passed?

The murder rate in the UK is about the same as it was before all those gun laws you love were passed

our murder rate is about the same as it was in 1950 without all those gun laws so it seems to me gun laws in UK didn't do shit to lower the murder rate
 
Check the time spans for the American numbers, 24 years, and the UK numbers, 1 year.

Fallacy of false numeral equivalency based on time.

Joe correctly answered the OP's error clearly. Let's move on.
 
in 2014 there were not 11000 gun murders there were 8124

you only overstated your claim by almost 30%

that's actually as honest as I've ever seen you be here

Actually, I'm going with the GunPolicy.Org source, which puts the number at 2014 at 10,945

The 8124 number comes from the FBI, which apparently thinks there were no gun murders in Newtown CT in the year Sandy Hook happened.

Sandy Hook Hoaxers Misrepresent FBI Crime Stats

That tells me the FBI's collection stats are faulty, and that's being generous.
 
tell me if gun control in the UK works then why is their murder rate not lower than it was before all the gun laws of the 60's were passed?

The murder rate in the UK is about the same as it was before all those gun laws you love were passed

our murder rate is about the same as it was in 1950 without all those gun laws so it seems to me gun laws in UK didn't do shit to lower the murder rate

yOu mean they got out ahead of a problem. Maintaining a low rate of murder is GOOD thing.

We didn't enact gun laws, and our gun murder rate spiked in the 1970's and onward, peaking in the 1990's until Demographics and the fact we lock up 2 million people just got the numbers down to "horrible".
 
Check the time spans for the American numbers, 24 years, and the UK numbers, 1 year.

Fallacy of false numeral equivalency based on time.

Joe correctly answered the OP's error clearly. Let's move on.
 
Check the time spans for the American numbers, 24 years, and the UK numbers, 1 year.

Fallacy of false numeral equivalency based on time.

Joe correctly answered the OP's error clearly. Let's move on.
 
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/overviewofviolentcrimeandsexualoffences

The estimated annual number of CSEW violent crime incidents has fallen from its 1995 peak of 3.8 million to 1.3 million. However, there was no statistically significant change compared with the previous year’s survey.

Improvements in crime recording processes by the police are thoguht to be the main driver of a 27%/rise in the number of violence against the person offences recorded by the police in the year ending March 2016 compared with the previous year.

The 106,098 sexual offences recorded by the police was the highest figure recorded since the introduction of the National Crime Recording Standard in 2002. As well as improvements in recording practices, this is thought to reflect a greater willingness of victims to come forward to report such crimes, including non-recent victims.

Violence without injury accounted for around half (55%) of all CSEW violent incidents, while the more serious crimes of wounding and assault with minor injury accounted for 24% and 21% respectively.

According to the year ending March 2016 Crime Survey for England and Wales (CSEW), there were 1.3 million incidents of violence experienced by adults in the previous 12 months in England and Wales1 (Appendix Table 1, year ending March 2016). This equates to 1.8% of adults aged 16 and over being a victim of violent crime.

Violence without injury (where the victim is punched, kicked, pushed or jostled with no resulting injury) accounted for just over half (55%) of all CSEW violent incidents.

There were just under 1 million (992,424) violence against the person offences recorded by the police in the year ending March 20163. Of these, 57% were classified as violence without injury (equivalent to 560,838 offences) and 43% were classified as violence with injury (431,012 offences), similar to the breakdown shown by the CSEW. Police recording of a crime is based on the element of intent rather than outcome. Therefore incidents classified as violence with injury will include crimes based on the deliberate attempt of the perpetrator to cause serious bodily harm, regardless of whether any injury was sustained by the victim.

The recent trend in violent crime demonstrated by the CSEW is supported by research conducted by the Violence and Society Research Group at Cardiff University. Their annual survey, covering a sample of hospital emergency departments and walk-in centres in England and Wales, shows that serious violence-related attendances in 2015 were broadly similar to the level recorded in 2014 following a declining trend seen in earlier years. In addition, the most recent admissions data for NHS hospitals in England provide similar findings. Assault admissions1 showed very little change in the year ending March 2016, decreasing by less than 1% from the previous year.

In other words, it's the recording practice.
 
in 2014 there were not 11000 gun murders there were 8124

you only overstated your claim by almost 30%

that's actually as honest as I've ever seen you be here

Actually, I'm going with the GunPolicy.Org source, which puts the number at 2014 at 10,945

The 8124 number comes from the FBI, which apparently thinks there were no gun murders in Newtown CT in the year Sandy Hook happened.

Sandy Hook Hoaxers Misrepresent FBI Crime Stats

That tells me the FBI's collection stats are faulty, and that's being generous.

Yeah OK gunpolicy.org keeps better gun murder records than the FBI

you were wrong admit it
 
tell me if gun control in the UK works then why is their murder rate not lower than it was before all the gun laws of the 60's were passed?

The murder rate in the UK is about the same as it was before all those gun laws you love were passed

our murder rate is about the same as it was in 1950 without all those gun laws so it seems to me gun laws in UK didn't do shit to lower the murder rate

yOu mean they got out ahead of a problem. Maintaining a low rate of murder is GOOD thing.

We didn't enact gun laws, and our gun murder rate spiked in the 1970's and onward, peaking in the 1990's until Demographics and the fact we lock up 2 million people just got the numbers down to "horrible".

You do know that in the UK the murder rate also spiked in fact the murder rates for both countries followed a similar curve so all those gun laws didn't reduce the murder rate

Our murder rate now is the same as it was in 1950
The Uks is the same as it was in 1950

They passed all kinds of gun laws in the 60's we didn't yet we both have the same exact murder rate as 60 plus years ago

ergo gun laws don't do shit
 
How is it possible that British violent crime, including gun crime has gone up...violent crime in total 24%, and gun crime by 10% in London and other major cities....

number of gun murders in the UK - 48 a year.
Number of gun murders in the US - 11,000 a year.

Statistics are meaningless compared to raw numbers.


And gun crime is going up in Britain, not down......police report they have more guns on the streets than at any time in the past........they are about to enter the 1960s level of gun violence....the same we did in the 1960s.......
 
Oh God...instead we get Joey.

Damn...I think I prefer the Welshman. How bad does that make Joey?

Not going to get into a personal issue with you, but the numbers are the numbers.

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

gun Homicides in the US
2014: 10,945
2013: 11,208
2012: 11,622
2011: 11,068

Guns in the United Kingdom — Firearms, gun law and gun control

2013: 23
2012: 12
2011: 38
2010: 33


And the numbers from the FBI....

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,312
2015--9,616
 
Oh God...instead we get Joey.

Damn...I think I prefer the Welshman. How bad does that make Joey?

Not going to get into a personal issue with you, but the numbers are the numbers.

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

gun Homicides in the US
2014: 10,945
2013: 11,208
2012: 11,622
2011: 11,068

Guns in the United Kingdom — Firearms, gun law and gun control

2013: 23
2012: 12
2011: 38
2010: 33


And again......they banned guns in Britain.....and their gun murder rate didn't change...in fact, after the ban, it went up..it spiked...then it returned to normal...and now it went up 10% in the major cities, London...for example.....their violent crime rate is going up...ours went down...

Our non gun murder rate is higher than theirs genius....their criminals didn't use to commit murder with their guns...that is changing......
 
tell me if gun control in the UK works then why is their murder rate not lower than it was before all the gun laws of the 60's were passed?

The murder rate in the UK is about the same as it was before all those gun laws you love were passed

our murder rate is about the same as it was in 1950 without all those gun laws so it seems to me gun laws in UK didn't do shit to lower the murder rate

yOu mean they got out ahead of a problem. Maintaining a low rate of murder is GOOD thing.

We didn't enact gun laws, and our gun murder rate spiked in the 1970's and onward, peaking in the 1990's until Demographics and the fact we lock up 2 million people just got the numbers down to "horrible".


Nope...you don't get to claim that...we went from 200 million guns in the 1990s...with 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997....to 357-400 million guns in private hands in 2016 with over 15 million people carrying guns for self defense ....

And our gun crime rate dropped 75%.....our gun murder rate dropped 49%......showing that guns in the hands of law abiding people is not the issue........


And Britain....they are seeing more and more guns...after the ban......their young males are killing more often..
 

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