VietNam..April 30th....How It Ended.

[Dot Com]

Vietnam was mentioned in that movie- A Fish Called Wanda. The Brit was ribbing the Yank over the outcome of that war. Getting back at the Yank for the Revolution I guess

Didn't lose Vietnam, it was a tie Sound Clip and Quote - Hark

BTW- I'm VERY serious about those who fought & died there. Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen just follow orders. Its the one's who started & continued it past the point of reason.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"... I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!"

Well...glad you're open to education.

The radicals in charge of groups such as the Weather Underground were communists, and planned to turn parts of the nation to China, Cuba, the Soviets....

...and open gulags,....

...and slay 25 million Americans.


Take notes:

Larry Grathwohl interview about William Ayers,Obama's Mentor - YouTube

What was the membership of that Underground?
JEsus, right world is whacky

Most of us in the anti war movement were against the Weathermen and any form of violent protest. I was almost blown up trying to talk reason with a guy who was making a bomb. It went off as I was leaving the apartment.

I knew a couple from the Boston area schools. Most were all talk,


and


the Republicans http://mises.org/journals/lar/pdfs/3_2/3_2_5.pdf

The Republicans say:

It should be noted that the NLF has been southern
oriented.

Forty of their senior leaders were native
South Vietnamese. The South Vietnamese Communists
have, in the past, found Hanoi quite willing to enter
into agreements at the expense of the South Vietna-
mese whether Communist or not.

Examples: . . .

Three, the Geneva Agreements of July 1954, left the
south under control of the Diem government for at
least 2 more years-this when most of the south
was already under Communist control.

Four, there-after, neither Hanoi nor Peking, nor Moscow made
strong representations against dropping elections in
1956, in effect confirming Diem's control and leaving
the South Vietnamese Communists out in the col&
All of which is a reminder to the South Vietnamese
Communists that North Vietnam has separate in-
terests, and has not in the past been the most re-
liable of allies.

Besides this must be placed the Four Points of the North
Vietnam government of April 13. 1965. quoted by the
Republicans, including point three: "The internal affairs of
South Vietnam must be settled by the South Vietnamese
people themselves, in accordance with the program of the
South Vietnam Front for Liberation, without any foreign
interference."
To emphasize the

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

its just like Sobchak said: "The man in the black pajamas, Dude. Worthy fucking adversary."

Seriously though, there was no way the U.S. was going to kill their way to victory. Same w/ the present day Taliban. Theres was/is too many of them.

Are you claiming that the vietnam war was winnable PoliChic? You know how many tons of bombs & agent orange were dropped on that country and they STILL won.

"Are you claiming that the vietnam war was winnable PoliChic"

What is the basis of your query?



If the OP was too difficult for you to understand, just say so.

I constructed it to show that Democrats prevented the US from keeping its commitment to folks who supported us.

This was in the center of the OP:
" One marvels at the lack of concern by the Left after the success of their machinations."

The folks who 'supported us' were a corrupt government fighting to hold onto the drug trade in the Golden Triangle.

what a load of simplistic bullshit

 

[9thIDdoc]

"You're the truly uninformed. The whole reason why there was a war in Viet Nam is because we failed to allow democracy to take its course. We backed a minority regime that refused to allow a plebiscite on reunification and the rest, as they say, is history." __________________

When the area was partitioned into North and South (as was Korea) hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese left most of what they owned behind and went South to avoid Uncle Ho's communist government. Do you really think that they would want a rigged election to negate their efforts?

The North left behind thousands of troops to make sure of the results of any vote. In short there was never any real possibility of an honest vote and any attempt to hold one would very likely have resulted in a bloodbath to no point. The stay behinds formed the cadre of the VC and the majority were to die during the '68 Tet offensive after slaughtering thousands of SVN civilians.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Communist's were responsible for Kent State? I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!

"... I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!"

Well...glad you're open to education.

The radicals in charge of groups such as the Weather Underground were communists, and planned to turn parts of the nation to China, Cuba, the Soviets....

...and open gulags,....

...and slay 25 million Americans.


Take notes:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlN2t0oERHk]Larry Grathwohl interview about William Ayers,Obama's Mentor - YouTube[/ame]

I was a leader in the anti war movement, and WE had no such intentions.

Have you heard the term "Useful Idiots"?

They didn't want to use your real name.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"... I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!"

Well...glad you're open to education.

The radicals in charge of groups such as the Weather Underground were communists, and planned to turn parts of the nation to China, Cuba, the Soviets....

...and open gulags,....

...and slay 25 million Americans.


Take notes:

Larry Grathwohl interview about William Ayers,Obama's Mentor - YouTube

I was a leader in the anti war movement, and WE had no such intentions.

Have you heard the term "Useful Idiots"?

They didn't want to use your real name.

Unfortunately, it is PoliChic who is a useful idiot of the Boat People and Conservatives bullshit

 

[PoliticalChic]

its just like Sobchak said: "The man in the black pajamas, Dude. Worthy fucking adversary."

Seriously though, there was no way the U.S. was going to kill their way to victory. Same w/ the present day Taliban. Theres was/is too many of them.

Are you claiming that the vietnam war was winnable PoliChic? You know how many tons of bombs & agent orange were dropped on that country and they STILL won.

"Are you claiming that the vietnam war was winnable PoliChic"

What is the basis of your query?



If the OP was too difficult for you to understand, just say so.

I constructed it to show that Democrats prevented the US from keeping its commitment to folks who supported us.

This was in the center of the OP:
" One marvels at the lack of concern by the Left after the success of their machinations."

The folks who 'supported us' were a corrupt government fighting to hold onto the drug trade in the Golden Triangle.

"At least 65,000 Vietnamese were murdered after the “liberation,” and up to 250,000 died in “re-education” camps. Thousands of “boat people” tried to flee, and perished at sea."

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"You're the truly uninformed. The whole reason why there was a war in Viet Nam is because we failed to allow democracy to take its course. We backed a minority regime that refused to allow a plebiscite on reunification and the rest, as they say, is history." __________________

When the area was partitioned into North and South (as was Korea) hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese left most of what they owned behind and went South to avoid Uncle Ho's communist government. Do you really think that they would want a rigged election to negate their efforts?

The North left behind thousands of troops to make sure of the results of any vote. In short there was never any real possibility of an honest vote and any attempt to hold one would very likely have resulted in a bloodbath to no point. The stay behinds formed the cadre of the VC and the majority were to die during the '68 Tet offensive after slaughtering thousands of SVN civilians.

exactly, and Republicans have been playing games with this since day one http://mises.org/journals/lar/pdfs/3_2/3_2_5.pdf

 

[PoliticalChic]

"... I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!"

Well...glad you're open to education.

The radicals in charge of groups such as the Weather Underground were communists, and planned to turn parts of the nation to China, Cuba, the Soviets....

...and open gulags,....

...and slay 25 million Americans.


Take notes:

Larry Grathwohl interview about William Ayers,Obama's Mentor - YouTube

What was the membership of that Underground?
JEsus, right world is whacky

Most of us in the anti war movement were against the Weathermen and any form of violent protest. I was almost blown up trying to talk reason with a guy who was making a bomb. It went off as I was leaving the apartment.

"Most of us in the anti war movement were against the Weathermen and any form of violent protest"....just followed their orders......

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"Are you claiming that the vietnam war was winnable PoliChic"

What is the basis of your query?



If the OP was too difficult for you to understand, just say so.

I constructed it to show that Democrats prevented the US from keeping its commitment to folks who supported us.

This was in the center of the OP:
" One marvels at the lack of concern by the Left after the success of their machinations."

The folks who 'supported us' were a corrupt government fighting to hold onto the drug trade in the Golden Triangle.

"At least 65,000 Vietnamese were murdered after the “liberation,” and up to 250,000 died in “re-education” camps. Thousands of “boat people” tried to flee, and perished at sea."

A civil war. Do you know what happened to the French and Americans who were on the losing sides of their civil wars?

 

[Dot Com]

"Are you claiming that the vietnam war was winnable PoliChic"

What is the basis of your query?



If the OP was too difficult for you to understand, just say so.

I constructed it to show that Democrats prevented the US from keeping its commitment to folks who supported us.

This was in the center of the OP:
" One marvels at the lack of concern by the Left after the success of their machinations."

The folks who 'supported us' were a corrupt government fighting to hold onto the drug trade in the Golden Triangle.

"At least 65,000 Vietnamese were murdered after the “liberation,” and up to 250,000 died in “re-education” camps. Thousands of “boat people” tried to flee, and perished at sea."

Are you still claiming that was a "winnable" war? Maybe if we just threw more money at it? Do you believe the American Revolutionaries would have lost had the Brits just threw more money at it?

 

[NoNukes]

"... I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!"

Well...glad you're open to education.

The radicals in charge of groups such as the Weather Underground were communists, and planned to turn parts of the nation to China, Cuba, the Soviets....

...and open gulags,....

...and slay 25 million Americans.


Take notes:

Larry Grathwohl interview about William Ayers,Obama's Mentor - YouTube

I was a leader in the anti war movement, and WE had no such intentions.

Have you heard the term "Useful Idiots"?

They didn't want to use your real name.

Name calling simply shows your failure.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

What was the membership of that Underground?
JEsus, right world is whacky

Most of us in the anti war movement were against the Weathermen and any form of violent protest. I was almost blown up trying to talk reason with a guy who was making a bomb. It went off as I was leaving the apartment.

"Most of us in the anti war movement were against the Weathermen and any form of violent protest"....just followed their orders......

The fact that everyone agrees the weathermen were instigators, proves they were outsiders coming into peaceful demonstrations..

Sort of like Tea Party assholes during election times

 

[NoNukes]

"Are you claiming that the vietnam war was winnable PoliChic"

What is the basis of your query?



If the OP was too difficult for you to understand, just say so.

I constructed it to show that Democrats prevented the US from keeping its commitment to folks who supported us.

This was in the center of the OP:
" One marvels at the lack of concern by the Left after the success of their machinations."

The folks who 'supported us' were a corrupt government fighting to hold onto the drug trade in the Golden Triangle.

what a load of simplistic bullshit

Are you denying that there is any truth here?

 

[there4eyeM]

Both sides miscalculated and erred in that 'war'. Overlooking the lead-in (the '40s and '50s) and who was right or wrong about the origins of the fighting, the conflict was the result of neither side really understanding the other's motivations and goals. Over a million Vietnamese civilians died out of stupidity.
America did not take into account that big white westerners were not going to be accepted by a people that had resisted every outsider for centuries.
The Vietnamese did not understand what America was after and what the goal was (who did?). They continued fighting despite losing almost every military battle, receiving more tonnage of bombs than were dropped on Germany in WWII and having to put up with the Russians as allies.
Everyone knew the Americans would lose interest after a while if the fighting stopped and leave Vietnam to the Vietnamese. N.V. and the V.C. should have just said, "OK, Uncle Sam, you're just too much for us! We give up" after Tet in '68. Then, a couple of years later after the inevitable withdrawal of US interest and forces, taken over the country. After all, that's essentially what eventually happened. A lot fewer people would have perished all around.

 

[there4eyeM]

"KENT, Ohio -- A noisy, violent altercation and four pistol shots took place about 70 seconds before Ohio National Guardsmen opened fire on antiwar protesters at Kent State University, according to a new analysis of a 40-year-old audiotape of the event.
The discovery adds new perspective to -- and raises new questions about -- one of the signature events of the 20th century, after four decades of spirited discussion and research."
Kent State tape indicates altercation and pistol fire preceded National Guard shootings (audio) | cleveland.com

There is no excuse for National Guard presence at Kent state.

There is no justification for their carrying loaded weapons.

There is no justification for firing indiscriminately into a crowd of students.

There is no justification for those who killed that day not to be at least in prison.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Most of us in the anti war movement were against the Weathermen and any form of violent protest. I was almost blown up trying to talk reason with a guy who was making a bomb. It went off as I was leaving the apartment.

"Most of us in the anti war movement were against the Weathermen and any form of violent protest"....just followed their orders......

The fact that everyone agrees the weathermen were instigators, proves they were outsiders coming into peaceful demonstrations..

Sort of like Tea Party assholes during election times

Instigators??

No....your accepted leaders.


And you follow them to this day.


1. The radicals of the sixties did not remain within the universities…They realized that the apocalypse never materialized. “…they were dropping off into environmentalism and consumerism and fatalism…I watched many of my old comrades apply to graduate school in universities they had failed to burn down, so they could get advanced degrees and spread the ideas that had been discredited in the streets under an academic cover.” Collier and Horowitz, “Destructive Generation: Second Thoughts About The Sixties,” p. 294-295.


2. “The radicals were not likely to go into business or the conventional practice of the professions. They were part of the chattering class, talkers interested in policy, politics, culture. They went into politics, print and electronic journalism, church bureaucracies, foundation staffs, Hollywood careers, public interest organizations, anywhere attitudes and opinions could be influenced. And they are exerting influence.”
Robert H. Bork, “Slouching Toward Gomorrah,” p. 51


3. “[The radicals] did not go away or change their minds; the New Left shattered into a multitude of single-issue groups. We now have, to name a few, radical feminists, black extremists, animal rights groups, radical environmentalists, activist homosexual organizations, multiculturalists, organizations such as People for the American Way, the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), the National Organization for Women (NOW), and Planned Parenthood.” Ibid p. 53

 

[PoliticalChic]

"KENT, Ohio -- A noisy, violent altercation and four pistol shots took place about 70 seconds before Ohio National Guardsmen opened fire on antiwar protesters at Kent State University, according to a new analysis of a 40-year-old audiotape of the event.
The discovery adds new perspective to -- and raises new questions about -- one of the signature events of the 20th century, after four decades of spirited discussion and research."
Kent State tape indicates altercation and pistol fire preceded National Guard shootings (audio) | cleveland.com

There is no excuse for National Guard presence at Kent state.

There is no justification for their carrying loaded weapons.

There is no justification for firing indiscriminately into a crowd of students.

There is no justification for those who killed that day not to be at least in prison.

Thanks for dropping by, Mr. Alinsky

 

[NoNukes]

"KENT, Ohio -- A noisy, violent altercation and four pistol shots took place about 70 seconds before Ohio National Guardsmen opened fire on antiwar protesters at Kent State University, according to a new analysis of a 40-year-old audiotape of the event.
The discovery adds new perspective to -- and raises new questions about -- one of the signature events of the 20th century, after four decades of spirited discussion and research."
Kent State tape indicates altercation and pistol fire preceded National Guard shootings (audio) | cleveland.com

There is no excuse for National Guard presence at Kent state.

There is no justification for their carrying loaded weapons.

There is no justification for firing indiscriminately into a crowd of students.

There is no justification for those who killed that day not to be at least in prison.

They were not supposed to have live ammunition in their guns.

 

[9thIDdoc]

WE lost in South VeitNam and still

no dominos fell.​

Instead we have become a valued trading partner with the communists that we so feared.

Which means people my age knew one fuck of a lot of our generation who

died for a lie​

Bullshit. The NVA had occupied large portions of Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand when I was there in '70. And when RSVN fell there was indeed the expected bloodbath both there and in Cambodia.

"died for a lie"? That is both wrong and sick. My bros. died accomplishing a mission given them by the American people via the government and military exactly the same as anyone else who has fought for this country.