Viet Nam Vets are AGAINST this war in Iraq

[Psychoblues]

Like myself, they are mostly in favor of our "War on Terrorism" but also like myself they see no connection between the wars on terrorism and this travesty of a war in Iraq. And Laura Ingraham is a freaking liar.

I count hundreds of Viet Nam Vets as personal friends. I at least casually know thousands of them. This facade being put forth by the Administration that our soldiers from that era are supportive of the War On Iraq is just plain false. With very rare exception, I know of no combat Veteran of Viet Nam that is in any way supportive of this game of monopoly that this administration likes to call WAR. But they understand clearly and even are willing to again actively participate in a War on Terror. We think the issues are very much different, however, than are being portrayed.

Laura Ingraham stated tonight on Larry King Live that her Veteran listeners that claim 7,8 and 9 years of Viet Nam Service were very supportive of this war. First off, among the thousands of Vets that I know from that war I know of not one that served anywhere close to that number of years unless they were POW's and even then they are certainly not in any kind of agreement with this propagated war in Iraq. Even John McCain, a staunch Republican, has his own reservations.

Oh well, the shrub lied his way into the White House by filing suit against the true winner before a demonstratedly right wing SCOTUS, maybe he can make this propaganda stick as well. We'll see.

Methinks the History Books will not be kind to this misquided and mal-informed administration. But ignorance is not bliss when it comes to politics and history.

 

[nycflasher]

I'm with stupid

 

[nycflasher]

Similarly, many WW2 vets were against Vietnam... for what that's worth.

 

[Psychoblues]

That says a helluva lot, nycflasher. An immoral war is nothing more than a great sin against what we as Americans stand and fight for. I give no quarter to any that directly threaten or have the capacity to cause me harm or take my belongings. And that includes the US government whether misguided or not, can you dig it? That's why I'm a Democrat. The Republicans constantly undermine my position as an American Citizen and Veteran.

 

[Hobbit]

You can't prove something by listing examples. You can only disprove a blanket statement. Saying that "Vietnam vets are against the war" simply because the ones you know are doesn't meant that they all do. Most of the vets I know, from WWII on down to the first Gulf War (and all those in between), support the war, but aren't 100% supportive of the way it's being fought. Just like any other group of the population, some are for it and some against with very few being 100% on either side.

Also, who are you to say what is immoral or not. If you're going to make such a bold statement, back it up. I'll go ahead and debunk the major arguments to save time.

Bush didn't lie. The entire United Nations thought Saddam had WMD's and many think he simply hid them in Iran or Syria. It was bad intelligence that even France and Germany, who were against the war, believed. If you're gonna blame someone, blame the people who got the intel.

Who cares if France and Germany didn't support the war. Their prime ministers were running on an anti-U.S. platform long before the war was even concocted. They weren't going to support us, no matter what. There was also the fact that they were involved in the quite corrupt "Oil for Food" program and didn't want to lose their nice trade embargos.

The Iraqi people do support us being there. It's just that they've been cowering for so long that they've forgotten how to fight for themselves. Most are very happy to see us, but they haven't taken that big step to take up arms and help us fight.

It's a war. People die. This one has been quite mild. We're saving more lives than we're losing. Before you ask, I do have many friends over there and I want to see them come back alive, but one of them dying over there won't change my position on the war.

Sure, a couple of corporations may be trying to take advantage of the war, but that's not Bush's fault, so stop pretending it is. If anything, it's Cheney's fault, but let's not go there right now.

 

[Moi]

My insomnia was just kicking out. Thanks for the laugh!

You colloquial poll was worth every penny you spent for it. No, really, I found your post informative. I mean, thousands of Vietnam vets told you, personally, that they oppose the war when even the polls used by the newspapers can ony generate about 1,500 or so responses! Your methods are extraordinary!

As for the stats on how long they were there, it's amazing that in the years of the armed services being in Vietnam, in more than a decade of being there, from 1961 to 1973 when the hostilities "stopped", yet not one of the thousands of vets you know came close to being there for 7-9 years? Amazing given that in 1967 over 30% of the people in the armed forces had been for over 4 years. In 1977 over 50% had been. Now, unless we assume that the first 30% left, that's an amazing number of people who've been in for close to the 7-9 years. Given that the miliatary is comprised of over 1 million people and has been plus or minus throughout the decades, your meager thousands don't quite seem significant.

So unless you get a signed affidavit from each and every surviving vet, your opinion that Vietnam vets are against this war is quite without foundation. Some are, some aren't.

 

[nycflasher]

I think I might have mentioned in another thread that my grandfather was a general in WW2. When Vietnam came around, at which point he had been out of the service for almost two decades, he told my mothers' two oldest brothers that if they were drafted he wanted them to go to Canada. His ant-Vietnam sentiment was so strong that he actually would have supported my uncles in going to Canada had they been drafted, and done his part to support them financially!

He has been dead for many years now, and it has been a while since I talked to him about it. I was pretty young when we did speak about it so I forget his exact reasons. But he fought the facists, and clearly he saw this war as much more ambiguous and misguided.

Similarly, I can think of many reasons Vietnam Vets would have problems with this War in Iraq. War is hell. I don't know many Vets but I know stories of many Vietnam Vets who were all but forgotten when they returned home. My friends father lived in a wheelchair until he committed suicide, suffering horribly from the effects of Agent Orange. Similarly, I feel that many of our soldiers may be getting the raw end of the deal. Be on the lookout for accounts of soldiers who feel they are being misinformed, in many cases being heldover in Iraq on extended tours.

I'm a little tired now, so I 'll leaver it at that. At the heart of the matter, is was all of this neccesary to protectg us from Terror. Clearly many soldiers are still living tthrough terror, with out an end in sight.

God save our souls.

 

[Psychoblues]

Close, but no cigar, hobbit. You only know and speak of what you've been told. That's obvious. I speak from experience and as an indulger of diverse ideology. I maintain that what I say is true and based on all credible polls and publically available information I see no conflict. I suppose you can supply that conflicting information?

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
Like myself, they are mostly in favor of our "War on Terrorism" but also like myself they see no connection between the wars on terrorism and this travesty of a war in Iraq. And Laura Ingraham is a freaking liar.

I count hundreds of Viet Nam Vets as personal friends. I at least casually know thousands of them. This facade being put forth by the Administration that our soldiers from that era are supportive of the War On Iraq is just plain false. With very rare exception, I know of no combat Veteran of Viet Nam that is in any way supportive of this game of monopoly that this administration likes to call WAR. But they understand clearly and even are willing to again actively participate in a War on Terror. We think the issues are very much different, however, than are being portrayed.

Laura Ingraham stated tonight on Larry King Live that her Veteran listeners that claim 7,8 and 9 years of Viet Nam Service were very supportive of this war. First off, among the thousands of Vets that I know from that war I know of not one that served anywhere close to that number of years unless they were POW's and even then they are certainly not in any kind of agreement with this propagated war in Iraq. Even John McCain, a staunch Republican, has his own reservations.

Oh well, the shrub lied his way into the White House by filing suit against the true winner before a demonstratedly right wing SCOTUS, maybe he can make this propaganda stick as well. We'll see.

Methinks the History Books will not be kind to this misquided and mal-informed administration. But ignorance is not bliss when it comes to politics and history.

You sound tired. I mean you still hung up over the election, lol. This would be funny if it wasnt so pathetic.

I also love your factual evidence there. No links. Just your word for it. Gotta love that.

I think you need to take the advice of your favorite website and MOVEON.

 

[Psychoblues]

What website are you talking about, insein? USMB is my favorite website. This website really does promote "freedom of speech" and that's what attracted me to begin with and that's what keeps me hanging around. Are you intimating that you disagree with the founding principle of this website? We may have philosophical or political differences. But understanding each other rather than pummeling each other is adviseable, IMHO.

But, you spoke your mind, that's commendable. I can only wonder at your demonstrated intolerance and ignorance.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
What website are you talking about, insein? USMB is my favorite website. This website really does promote "freedom of speech" and that's what attracted me to begin with and that's what keeps me hanging around. Are you intimating that you disagree with the founding principle of this website? We may have philosophical or political differences. But understanding each other rather than pummeling each other is adviseable, IMHO.

But, you spoke your mind, that's commendable. I can only wonder at your demonstrated intolerance and ignorance.

Well when you try to pass on your statements as facts, thats not expressing your freedom of speech. As long as you state "In my opinion, I feel that..." then it makes it clear what you are trying to portray. That helps to show your freedom to express yourself.

In your opinion, you feel that the you should have won the 2000 election. Even though you are completely dead wrong and there is much Factual evidence to prove you wrong, its your right to have a dilusional opinion.

In your opinion, all the soldiers you talked to are against the War in IRaq. Even though there are again many soldiers out there that are supportive of the War.

To make the blanket statements like you did without any evidence why discredits you very easily in my eyes.

 

[Psychoblues]

You've got your "eyes", insein, and I've got mine. Somehow I trust my own over anything that you claim to "see". You've already clearly demonstrated a "lemming-like" approach to politics and national policy, I suspect you do the same in your personal life. Even to my detriment, I tend to research, interpret and share my observations as accurately as I can. Some buy it, some don't. Having been elected continuously for 21 years, being a veteran of several real wars, fathering and educating 3 children all of whom are remarkable successes, I tend to trust my judgement. But who knows? Any second now, failure is at hand. I consider myself adequately prepared to deal with it, are you?

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
You've got your "eyes", insein, and I've got mine. Somehow I trust my own over anything that you claim to "see". You've already clearly demonstrated a "lemming-like" approach to politics and national policy, I suspect you do the same in your personal life. Even to my detriment, I tend to research, interpret and share my observations as accurately as I can. Some buy it, some don't. Having been elected continuously for 21 years, being a veteran of several real wars, fathering and educating 3 children all of whom are remarkable successes, I tend to trust my judgement. But who knows? Any second now, failure is at hand. I consider myself adequately prepared to deal with it, are you?

Ok that doesnt explain why you tried to original pass off your opinions as facts. Instead you give me this drivel about your life and how your soo smart and blah blah blah. Your obviously not that smart if you think Al Gore is president.

Also its ignorant to make a blanket statement like "I know of no combat Veteran of Viet Nam that is in any way supportive of this game of monopoly that this administration likes to call WAR." Yes none that you know of. And while you may know thousands as you claim, that doesnt account for the Hundreds of thousand other vets whose opinion you dont know. Some might oppose it, but a great many have supported the War in Iraq.

So i dont see where you were going with your last post. Perhaps you can just state your point first and then add stuff to support that instead of random ramblings about odds and ends. Just a suggestion.

 

[Psychoblues]

I think you said it better than I ever could. Go back and read your illogical and ridiculous post. You're fried, dude.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
I think you said it better than I ever could. Go back and read your illogical and ridiculous post. You're fried, dude.

Yep you cooked me good, lol. Anyway onto more intelligent pastures.

 

[Psychoblues]

Naw, your're just onto a converstaion that is more accomodating to your illogical way of thinking. But, that's OK with me. Americans are Americans from the dumbest to the smartest, we're all Americans. Like punk-rock, go with what you can muster as thought and forget all you ever knew, can you dig that, insein?

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
Naw, your're just onto a converstaion that is more accomodating to your illogical way of thinking. But, that's OK with me. Americans are Americans from the dumbest to the smartest, we're all Americans. Like punk-rock, go with what you can muster as thought and forget all you ever knew, can you dig that, insein?

Your becoming more incoherent as we get further and further into this thread. what was the original point of your post? Ah yes.

It was to try and say that because you spoke with THOUSDANDS of vietnam vets that disapprove of the War in Iraq, that there is a vast Right wing conspiracy that us "lemmings" feed on. This "conspiracy" also shows that alot of Vietnam vets are in favor of the War in Iraq despite your personal findings. This said "conspiracy" also rigged the 2000 election and cause the Supreme court to give a ruling that said that all ballots should be counted. And even after they were all counted, Gore Still lost. Such a conspiracy. Even after they were recounted several hundred times by "independant" agencies, Gore still lost. Thus Bush is evil and has perpetrated a huge conspiracy over the country that Self proclaimed geniuses(ie Psychoblues) are too smart to fall for.

I think that was the point you were trying to make. Which i gladly refuted for you. At which time you dove into this tangent about being elected and having kids and eating food or something. Basically irrelevant filler that brought us to our current place in time. I wish i had those 30 minutes of my life back. ::sigh::

 

[Psychoblues]

I never mentioned "conspiracy", insein. You are delusional. Get a grip, my friend, and speak to me with truth, honor and respectability as I've treated you. Otherwise, you're just shit and I'll treat you as such.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Psychoblues
I never mentioned "conspiracy", insein. You are delusional. Get a grip, my friend, and speak to me with truth, honor and respectability as I've treated you. Otherwise, you're just shit and I'll treat you as such.

As you treated me? excuse me for a second...:rotflmao:

You called me a "lemming" for my ideology. Then you said i was "intollerant and ignorant" for opposing your views. Yes complete respect im feellin from you.

You still have managed to go through about 6 posts without responding to anything i said. You havent proven your points at all. You've boosted own intelligence or credibility in your personal life to justify your opinions but thats all ive seen.

I suppose we should just lock this thread now cause its going nowhere.

 

[Psychoblues]

Now that you've encountered one as hard-headed as yourself you suggest "locking the thread". That's a typical right wing thing.