Vaxxed cruise ship gets infected and vaxxed lady dies

[Independent thinker]

I’m happy to spend tome looking at your stuff as soon as you show a spec of respect and give me a direct answer to a direct question. I’m not going to engage with you with all the dishonest gameplay that you’ve been doing. Answer my question and we can proceed to debate whatever facts you want

The way debates work is I post facts and you post facts. I posted my facts. You refuse to even look at them, even though they were the very same facts that you asked me to post. For some unknown reason you won't accept scientific facts unless they are posted by me personally instead of the scientists. The bottom line is, you apparently don't have any response to the scientific facts I posted because they don't fit into the agenda you were trying to push. I would think that if you were sincere in wanting to stop the spread of Delta, you would get your head out of your ass and accept the facts and formulate a plan to move forward.

 

[SweetSue92]

Carnival cruise passenger dies after testing positive for COVID-19 onboard ship

The passenger who died and 26 cruise members tested positive for COVID-19 while on the Carnival Vista cruise ship.

news.yahoo.com

.

But please get the vaccine

View attachment 530238

This is going to start happening more and more as efficacy wanes.

And that is maybe even before ADE kicks in

 

[Slade3200]

The way debates work is I post facts and you post facts. I posted my facts. You refuse to even look at them, even though they were the very same facts that you asked me to post. For some unknown reason you won't accept scientific facts unless they are posted by me personally instead of the scientists. The bottom line is, you apparently don't have any response to the scientific facts I posted because they don't fit into the agenda you were trying to push. I would think that if you were sincere in wanting to stop the spread of Delta, you would get your head out of your ass and accept the facts and formulate a plan to move forward.

I gave you the respect of reading your posts and giving direct answers to your questions for pages and pages… you haven’t given the same respect as you’ve dodged and avoided giving me a direct answer to a simple question for pages now… So I’m not going to induldge your diversions until you answer my question. Answer it and then you can make whatever point you want and I’ll reengage.

what is the efficacy rate of the Pfizer vaccine?

 

[Independent thinker]

Even though Israel has less than 9 million people, the country is still a useful source of pfizer effectiveness because the vaccinations were available earlier there than USA.

The 39 percent estimation is just that, an estimation. At the time taken, they had less than a thousand cases per day, which makes it subject being a mathematical fluke. Also the 39 percent is for protection against mild cases. Its still more than 90 percent effective for major illness and hospitalization.

More recently in Israel:

The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.

which shows its worth getting vaccinated.

Which is EXACTLY what I have been trying to explain to Slade. The vaccinations aren't worth a crap at stopping the spread of Delta but seem to be very effective at greatly reducing serious illness. If he could just get over that first hump then we could be in agreement.

The fact is, Delta is surging, even in the most highly vaccinated places in the world and the vaccines are obviously doing very little to stop the spread. In fact, they aren't stopping the spread at all because cases are surging. So, the only real issue here is in how many will be hospitalized and die because the vaccines do nothing to stop the spread of Delta. In other words, the unvaccinated are only hurting themselves but are NOT solely responsible for the spread of Delta because even the vaccinated are spreading Delta.

Therefore, vaccine passports are useless and discriminatory against the unvaccinated. In fact, vaccine passports are spreading Delta because they give the false delusion that if you are vaccinated you won't spread Delta. We have sports stadiums that will let in 55,000 only vaccinated people, which will be a superspreader event because the vaccinated are spreading Delta just as much as the unvaccinated are. So, while Dick and Jane won't be able to go to the football game because they are not vaccinated, 55,000 fully vaccinated people will be able to go to the game and be part of a superspreader event that will spread Delta to tens of thousands of others, including innocent children under 12. The left are so wrapped up in their attack on the unvaccinated they can't see this.

So, once again, I say that I highly encourage people to get vaccinated because it can literally be the difference of life and death to them and the vaccines are highly safe for most people. BUT the left are spreading Delta by this absolutely stupid notion that vaccinated people aren't spreading the virus. In fact, their blatant disregard of the facts is causing the Delta surges because they falsely believe that if they open the world up to business as usual only for the vaccinated, that somehow Delta will not spread when the facts show that the most highly vaccinated places on the planet are experiencing surges. And, somehow the left stupidly believe that if we get the US up to an 80% fully vaccinated rate that that will stop the spread of Delta, even though we already know that in the countries that do have an 80% vaccination rate are actually experiencing surges.

The vaccines are NOT stopping the spread of Delta but they do greatly reduce hospitalizations and deaths and vaccine passports are not only a total waste of time, but actually contribute to spreading Delta more by giving the delusion that vaccinated people are not spreading the virus when they are.

 

[dudmuck]

Which is EXACTLY what I have been trying to explain to Slade. The vaccinations aren't worth a crap at stopping the spread of Delta but seem to be very effective at greatly reducing serious illness. If he could just get over that first hump then we could be in agreement.

The fact is, Delta is surging, even in the most highly vaccinated places in the world and the vaccines are obviously doing very little to stop the spread. In fact, they aren't stopping the spread at all because cases are surging. So, the only real issue here is in how many will be hospitalized and die because the vaccines do nothing to stop the spread of Delta. In other words, the unvaccinated are only hurting themselves but are NOT solely responsible for the spread of Delta because even the vaccinated are spreading Delta.

Therefore, vaccine passports are useless and discriminatory against the unvaccinated. In fact, vaccine passports are spreading Delta because they give the false delusion that if you are vaccinated you won't spread Delta. We have sports stadiums that will let in 55,000 only vaccinated people, which will be a superspreader event because the vaccinated are spreading Delta just as much as the unvaccinated are. So, while Dick and Jane won't be able to go to the football game because they are not vaccinated, 55,000 fully vaccinated people will be able to go to the game and be part of a superspreader event that will spread Delta to tens of thousands of others, including innocent children under 12. The left are so wrapped up in their attack on the unvaccinated they can't see this.

So, once again, I say that I highly encourage people to get vaccinated because it can literally be the difference of life and death to them and the vaccines are highly safe for most people. BUT the left are spreading Delta by this absolutely stupid notion that vaccinated people aren't spreading the virus. In fact, their blatant disregard of the facts is causing the Delta surges because they falsely believe that if they open the world up to business as usual only for the vaccinated, that somehow Delta will not spread when the facts show that the most highly vaccinated places on the planet are experiencing surges. And, somehow the left stupidly believe that if we get the US up to an 80% fully vaccinated rate that that will stop the spread of Delta, even though we already know that in the countries that do have an 80% vaccination rate are actually experiencing surges.

vaccinated spreading virus, yes. But much less:

A vaccinated person may have the same viral loads as an unvaccinated person, but that high level of virus lasts only three to four days compared with an unvaccinated person who could be contagious for up to 10 days, said Suresh Mittal, professor of virology at Purdue University’s College of Veterinary Medicine.

COVID-19 transmission among the fully vaccinated is rare, but possible, experts say. Here's why.

A fully vaccinated person who gets COVID-19 won’t be contagious for long, experts say, and may not have the chance to transmit the virus to others.

www.usatoday.com

and a vaccinated person is 29 times less likely to be hospitalized from infection.

 

[Independent thinker]

I gave you the respect of reading your posts and giving direct answers to your questions for pages and pages… you haven’t given the same respect as you’ve dodged and avoided giving me a direct answer to a simple question for pages now… So I’m not going to induldge your diversions until you answer my question. Answer it and then you can make whatever point you want and I’ll reengage.

what is the efficacy rate of the Pfizer vaccine?

You asked me to post the efficacy rate of Pfizer's vaccine. I did. You refuse to accept it because it was in a link which you refuse to read. You haven't given me the respect of reading the very information you demanded me to post. I do understand why though, because you are a fact denier and will deny all facts that don't fit into your preconceived lefty agenda. I'm salivating over the fact that you have no response to the science.

 

[Slade3200]

Which is EXACTLY what I have been trying to explain to Slade. The vaccinations aren't worth a crap at stopping the spread of Delta but seem to be very effective at greatly reducing serious illness. If he could just get over that first hump then we could be in agreement.

The fact is, Delta is surging, even in the most highly vaccinated places in the world and the vaccines are obviously doing very little to stop the spread. In fact, they aren't stopping the spread at all because cases are surging. So, the only real issue here is in how many will be hospitalized and die because the vaccines do nothing to stop the spread of Delta. In other words, the unvaccinated are only hurting themselves but are NOT solely responsible for the spread of Delta because even the vaccinated are spreading Delta.

Therefore, vaccine passports are useless and discriminatory against the unvaccinated. In fact, vaccine passports are spreading Delta because they give the false delusion that if you are vaccinated you won't spread Delta. We have sports stadiums that will let in 55,000 only vaccinated people, which will be a superspreader event because the vaccinated are spreading Delta just as much as the unvaccinated are. So, while Dick and Jane won't be able to go to the football game because they are not vaccinated, 55,000 fully vaccinated people will be able to go to the game and be part of a superspreader event that will spread Delta to tens of thousands of others, including innocent children under 12. The left are so wrapped up in their attack on the unvaccinated they can't see this.

So, once again, I say that I highly encourage people to get vaccinated because it can literally be the difference of life and death to them and the vaccines are highly safe for most people. BUT the left are spreading Delta by this absolutely stupid notion that vaccinated people aren't spreading the virus. In fact, their blatant disregard of the facts is causing the Delta surges because they falsely believe that if they open the world up to business as usual only for the vaccinated, that somehow Delta will not spread when the facts show that the most highly vaccinated places on the planet are experiencing surges. And, somehow the left stupidly believe that if we get the US up to an 80% fully vaccinated rate that that will stop the spread of Delta, even though we already know that in the countries that do have an 80% vaccination rate are actually experiencing surges.

The vaccines are NOT stopping the spread of Delta but they do greatly reduce hospitalizations and deaths and vaccine passports are not only a total waste of time, but actually contribute to spreading Delta more by giving the delusion that vaccinated people are not spreading the virus when they are.

You keep restating things that I’ve acknowledged as true yet you persist to pretend like I’m avoiding them. I’m not, I’m just insisting that you answer a simple question before proceeding with our discussion. You need to learn how to have an honest talk with people.

what is the efficacy rate of the Pfizer vaccine?

 

[Independent thinker]

vaccinated spreading virus, yes. But much less:

A vaccinated person may have the same viral loads as an unvaccinated person, but that high level of virus lasts only three to four days compared with an unvaccinated person who could be contagious for up to 10 days, said Suresh Mittal, professor of virology at Purdue University’s College of Veterinary Medicine.

COVID-19 transmission among the fully vaccinated is rare, but possible, experts say. Here's why.

A fully vaccinated person who gets COVID-19 won’t be contagious for long, experts say, and may not have the chance to transmit the virus to others.

www.usatoday.com

and a vaccinated person is 29 times less likely to be hospitalized from infection.

In the most highly vaccinated countries in the world, Delta is surging. That is because the vaccines don't do diddly at stopping the spread of the virus. But, they do seem to do a great job at reducing hospitalizations and deaths. But, since the vaccines don't stop the spread of the virus it is not fair or even correct to blame the unvaccinated for the spread of the virus because the vaccinated in the highest vaccinated countries are causing surges of Delta. The left need to understand this so we can take appropriate action. By blaming the unvaccinated for surging cases, when the vaccinated are also responsible for surging cases, we will never stop the spread. As in my sports stadium example, if we let in 55,000 only vaccinated people to a sports stadium it will be a superspreader event. We need to understand this instead of just blaming increasing cases on the unvaccinated.

 

[Independent thinker]

You keep restating things that I’ve acknowledged as true yet you persist to pretend like I’m avoiding them. I’m not, I’m just insisting that you answer a simple question before proceeding with our discussion. You need to learn how to have an honest talk with people.

what is the efficacy rate of the Pfizer vaccine?

I posted the answer to that in a link from scientists but you refuse to acknowledge science. I can't help you if you refuse science. You are a science denier. However, if you are that uninformed that you don't know the answer yourself or know how to look it up then you probably shouldn't be posting here.

 

[Slade3200]

I posted the answer to that in a link from scientists but you refuse to acknowledge science. I can't help you if you refuse science. You are a science denier. However, if you are that uninformed that you don't know the answer yourself or know how to look it up then you probably shouldn't be posting here.

I don’t want a link and article to sift through, I want your own words. What number or range do you think the efficacy rate is for the Pfizer vaccine? And why do you have such a hard time answering such a simple question?!

 

[Lesh]

Which is EXACTLY what I have been trying to explain to Slade. The vaccinations aren't worth a crap at stopping the spread of Delta but seem to be very effective at greatly reducing serious illness.

If that is true...why are 90% of people who show up in hospitals with covid unvaccinated?

 

[Independent thinker]

If that is true...why are 90% of people who show up in hospitals with covid unvaccinated?

What I said is :

The vaccinated are spreading Delta along with the unvaccinated. The vaccines don't stop the spread of Delta.

The vaccines are great at at reducing hospitalizations and deaths, which is why the huge majority of those in the hospital and dying are the unvaccinated.

 

[Independent thinker]

I don’t want a link and article to sift through, I want your own words. What number or range do you think the efficacy rate is for the Pfizer vaccine? And why do you have such a hard time answering such a simple question?!

Your answer was in the headline. You don't have to sift through anything. But, I understand that science is too complicated for you to read and understand, even if what you seek is in the headline. Why are you here if you can't even understand a science headline?

 

[Lesh]

Let me help

The study, which was published in Annals of Internal Medicine on Monday, included 54,360 people who tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 infection in the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs healthcare system and 54,360 propensity score–matched control participants.

Overall vaccine effectiveness 7 or more days after the second dose was 97.1%. Effectiveness was 96.2% for the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine and 98.2% for the Moderna vaccine. Effectiveness remained above 95% regardless of age group, sex, race, or comorbidities.
Average age was 61 years, 83.6% were male, and 62% were White. Average body mass index was 31 kg/m2 among those who tested positive and 30 kg/m2 among those who tested negative.

 

[Slade3200]

Your answer was in the headline. You don't have to sift through anything. But, I understand that science is too complicated for you to read and understand, even if what you seek is in the headline. Why are you here if you can't even understand a science headline?

Don’t hide behind a headline just state what it is… why is that so difficult for you? It takes more energy to type out “your answer is in the headline” why not just post what it is.

what is the efficacy rate of the Pfizer vaccine?

 

[dudmuck]

In the most highly vaccinated countries in the world, Delta is surging. That is because the vaccines don't do diddly at stopping the spread of the virus. But, they do seem to do a great job at reducing hospitalizations and deaths. But, since the vaccines don't stop the spread of the virus it is not fair or even correct to blame the unvaccinated for the spread of the virus because the vaccinated in the highest vaccinated countries are causing surges of Delta. The left need to understand this so we can take appropriate action. By blaming the unvaccinated for surging cases, when the vaccinated are also responsible for surging cases, we will never stop the spread. As in my sports stadium example, if we let in 55,000 only vaccinated people to a sports stadium it will be a superspreader event. We need to understand this instead of just blaming increasing cases on the unvaccinated.

apparently you missed where professor Suresh Mittal said that spread duration reduced from 10 days to 3-4 days from vaccinated people.

 

[Lesh]

Here's How Well COVID-19 Vaccines Work Against the Delta Variant

In the fight against the Delta variant, here's how the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccines measure up when it comes to protection. A new study found the Moderna vaccine was 76% effective against the Delta variant, while the Pfizer vaccine was only 42% effective...

www.healthline.com

10 studies that show a low of 40% effective against Delta infection . Most in the 80% range.

That's pretty damn good.

 

[Lesh]

Combine that effectiveness against infection with the fact that for those cases where people DO get infected...far fewer get very sick...and ya understand the importance of getting the vax

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I gave you the respect of reading your posts and giving direct answers to your questions for pages and pages… you haven’t given the same respect as you’ve dodged and avoided giving me a direct answer to a simple question for pages now… So I’m not going to induldge your diversions until you answer my question. Answer it and then you can make whatever point you want and I’ll reengage.

what is the efficacy rate of the Pfizer vaccine?

It’s too soon to tell long term but for now 95% or so.

 

[Slade3200]

It’s too soon to tell long term but for now 95% or so.

Look at this Independentthinker here’s a guy that can answer a question!!! Take notes.